DUH! We should have taken on a few more trillion in debt...that would reassure the world that we'll pay our bills!

I guess Spain losing 4% off their index today was the Tea Party's fault, too!

Corvus: essucht: Styro Foam: This isn't because of the debt deal, no matter how much I want to harp on that. This is because the economic growth statistics from the last few quarters have been revised down. Waaay down.

[m2.wnymedia.net image 640x400]

Change. I brought it

What the hell are you talking about? We have had a Republican budget passed in April and then these budget cuts forced on by REPUBLICANs plus the Bush tax cuts.

The economy was recovering until the Tea Party got int congress and decided to start making all these cuts.

IT has a lot to to with the debt deal AND the REPUBLICAN BUDGET PASSED IN APRIL!!

Exactly. Raising the debt ceiling didn't spend any money at all, it only allowed us to write the checks for the money the Republicans already spent in their budget. The Teabaggers holding that process hostage is what stabbed the markets in the face.

MugzyBrown: organizmx: Exactly. The fact that a small group of American politicians (in this case, the The Tea Party) can actually hold the entire country's (and the world's) economy hostage if they don't get what they want, and that Democrats were willing to let them get away with it, doesn't exactly lead to investor confidence.

This damage was done days and days before the compromise bills was passed. This is a politician created crisis caused by amateur Tea Party Freshman who had no idea what kind of forces they were farking with.


This is retarded.

If this was the case, the markets would have tanked 2 weeks ago, not the day after the deal passed.. especially since the deal was basically smoke and mirrors that don't take effect... if they ever take effect for many years down the line.

If anything, the markets are reacting to the US gov'ts inability to solve any real issue with regard to their debt.

100% correct.

There was NO WAY the US was going to default on its obligations. It was all political theater. The tea party people are 100% correct in that US spending MUST be brought under control, and drastically. The way they went about it was not the best way to do it, but it got everyone's attention.

The US debt is now at 100% of GDP. We are a broke nation and that bullshiat bill that was just passed to raise the debt ceiling was and is a joke.

There needs to be SERIOUS reductions in spending and tax major structure reforms before ANYTHING will change.

You cannot run deficits like we have been and have a 70,000+ page tax code and expect the country to stay solvent. It just won't happen.

Dow doobie doo dow down....

This is why black people shouldn't have control of finances. They run up the debt, then keep asking for more money. Eventually people are going to get sick of your IOU's. I'm sorry, but the government isnt going to keep bailing you out. You have to start working at some point.

cameroncrazy1984: stewmadness: Oh, and it's laughable for dems to make John Nobody more accountable than our Leninist president.

If you actually knew what Leninism means, you wouldn't have made this stupid, stupid comment.

I was trying to figure out what he meant too.

In the meantime, Vladimir Lenin or John Lennon would substitute equally well in the Oval Office until Obama grows a pair.

Meh.

Drummer: Can't blame Obama for having to fix the major problems Bush created.

You could if he caves on everything and never actually gets the good stuff done. He's just helping continue it.

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: You cannot run deficits like we have been and have a 70,000+ page tax code and expect the country to stay solvent. It just won't happen.

Whoever said liberals were good with money?

If they would have passed a Balanced Budget Amendment and repealed Fartbamacare the market would have gone up 500 points.

MugzyBrown: organizmx: Exactly. The fact that a small group of American politicians (in this case, the The Tea Party) can actually hold the entire country's (and the world's) economy hostage if they don't get what they want, and that Democrats were willing to let them get away with it, doesn't exactly lead to investor confidence.

This damage was done days and days before the compromise bills was passed. This is a politician created crisis caused by amateur Tea Party Freshman who had no idea what kind of forces they were farking with.

This is retarded.

If this was the case, the markets would have tanked 2 weeks ago, not the day after the deal passed.. especially since the deal was basically smoke and mirrors that don't take effect... if they ever take effect for many years down the line.

If anything, the markets are reacting to the US gov'ts inability to solve any real issue with regard to their debt.


I think we're both saying the sort of the same thing.

Corvus:

What the hell are you talking about? We have had a Republican budget passed in April and then these budget cuts forced on by REPUBLICANs plus the Bush tax cuts.

The economy was recovering until the Tea Party got int congress and decided to start making all these cuts.

IT has a lot to to with the debt deal AND the REPUBLICAN BUDGET PASSED IN APRIL!!

Derp.

We own the economy. --Debbie Wasserman Schultz

This isn't a panic about America's allegedly unmanageable debt, or the fairly minor spending cuts that will fall almost entirely 3-10 years from now, or even the fact that we've demonstrated that large political factions in this country are not only willing, but eager, to provoke a major financial catastrophe to stick it to the libs -- although none of these are exactly positive factors, US Treasury yields have fallen tremendously this week, at both the long and short ends. People aren't excessively worried that we'll be unable to unwilling to pay our sovereign debt. They're probably not scared enough, honestly.

Much of Europe, on the other hand, is already difficulty servicing its debt, and the situation appears to be accelerating, with Italy and Spain borrowing at something like 400bp over German debt. And we got absolutely horrific GDP figures (including substantial negative revisions going back three years) and a bad-to-abysmal consumer spending report this week. Plus Switzerland and Japan and farking around with their currencies.

As ridiculous as the US government has become, it's factors it can't control even in theory that are causing the window-jumping at the moment.

Cut spending = Lower GDP

Came for an image of the DJIA from when Obama took office until now. Left disappointed.

eraser8: The debt deal promises to remove TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from the US economy.

Any reasonable trader is obviously going to assume that that kind of withdrawal is going to hurt economic growth.

I'd agree with this analysis if the debt deal had contained any real surprises. But the deal they settled on is roughly what everyone had been expecting for weeks or months (namely, spending cuts and nebulous plans for more savings, not likely on the revenue side), so it doesn't really explain why this happened right now.

The_Terminator:
So yeah, clearly lets blame the baggers, who were trying to cut the spending,


Inhale deeply and repeat after me:

"WE CUT SPENDING DURING BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS, NOT DEBT CEILING NEGOTIATIONS."


If you think this fiasco was about anything other than a bunch of mentally challenged zealots sabotaging the entire process for their own political gain, then you're a sucker.

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: The tea party people are 100% correct in that US spending MUST be brought under control, and drastically.


The Teabag party is not correct. If ever there was perfect application for the broken clock metaphor, they are it.

"Down Jones - making paper seem more important than reality since 1896"

I Said: nekulor: The EU is about to enter a spiraling debt crisis worse than our own, which is why the markets sank. You know what else had this kind of lead-up? WWII.

This is why I keep saying: Every 40 - 60 years the Allies should get the gang back together and just bomb the life out of Germany, Italy, and Japan. We'll clearly never agree on how the economy bounced back after WWII, but we all agree that it did. And maybe we just need to please the "World War Gods".

I've often wondered if that very idea is innately in our DNA to control overpopulation....kinda like when rats have a baby binge and start running out of food they eat their offspring. Humans are much more sophisticated about population control. Rather than terminating pregnancies in utero, encouraging birth control or eating their young, they blow the bejezus out of each other every 40 to 60 years.

eraser8: Styro Foam: This isn't because of the debt deal, no matter how much I want to harp on that. This is because the economic growth statistics from the last few quarters have been revised down. Waaay down.

That's not entirely true.

The debt deal promises to remove TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from the US economy.

Any reasonable trader is obviously going to assume that that kind of withdrawal is going to hurt economic growth.

Think about it: at a time when the economy is slowing to a near halt, the government decides that it's a great idea to -- again, for emphasis -- remove TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from the US economy.

How can anyone paying attention NOT expect another recession? How can he not expect serious contraction?

Plus, the Eurozone isn't exactly showing positive signs.

Good point.

MaliFinn:

No surprise. The Republican idea of "running the House" is 400 guys running around trying to rape the maid.

Hey, who told YOU?That was supposed to be a SECRET.

I think Fox News and Glenn Beck bought up fifty tons of gold, then started the teabagger bullshiat to ruin the economy and the country so they could profit.
That's what I think.
Loom what Bunker Hunt did with silver back in the early 80's.

shower_in_my_socks: Let the Tea Party Recession begin!

This isn't a crash, the market never should have been this high to start with. It was propped up artificially by an idiotic stimulus plan, that only postponed the inevitable and has now come to an end. Has it ever occured to anybody that we never would have gotten out of the depression without the second dip? In other words, that it was the second dip that got us out of the depression, and all policy did was drag the whole thing along for ten years. We aren't getting out of this mess until we deleverage. Period. And everybody has to do it. People with credit card debt, mortgages, banks, businesses, and the government. All need to pay down borrowed money. Until we do, no recovery.

I Said: SnakeLee: 1.) it's not a market crash (yet)

2.) this is probably based more on Europe than our actions

This might be me just not getting enough foreign news in my diet, but what happened in the last 2 - 3 days that's bigger than the US almost saying "f*ck it" to its bills?


Spain and Italy coming saying they're screwed and the European Central Bank saying that it can't help them.

This thread is taking on posts like the Titanic taking on water.

Cutting government spending during hard economic times will make the economy even worse. Now you can argue that the spending cuts were necessary anyway, but the result is inevitable.

devildog123
Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

The debt ceiling mess was not an example of "both sides are bad". It was a crisis created by one party, the Republicans. Not everything is equal and throwing out the "blame both" mantra is a cop out.

eraser8
I blame Republicans for pushing a bad policy and I blame Obama for being such a farktarded negotiator that he ended up caving to them, adopting their mantra -- and giving them more in the end than they were asking for in the beginning.


I agree that Obama could have negotiated better. On the other hand, it's difficult when one side, the GOP, is perfectly willing to drive the nation's economy off a cliff and the Democrats, rightfully so, are not. In this case the sheer idiocy, ignorance, and for some maliciousness of the GOP's willingness to ruin the economy gave them the bargaining advantage.

nekulor: The EU is about to enter a spiraling debt crisis worse than our own, which is why the markets sank.

This is also a factor. I suppose the GOP is blaming Obama for the European mess too. Yes, the EU's economy impacts our economy.

devildog123: H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

So, on Fark, when the market crashed with a Republican President and a Democratic Congress... It's the President's fault, when the market crashes with a Democratic President and a half Republican Congress... It's Congress' fault.

Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

Oh no no no---it's always the Republicans fault. ALWAYS. Because Liberals like to BLAME BLAME BLAME. Instead of listening,researching,and educating themselves about what is really going on. Obama did not cave the GOP compromised their pants off. Obama actually was BIPARTISAN-which is why people voted for him. It annoys the crap outta me.

stewmadness: Yoyo: O
You know. For kids.

Death Star, or frisbee..... :-)

I guess you don't know.