Even on the week of 9/11, more Americans died from cigarettes and alcohol than from terrorism.

Yeah, Americans are much more upset about Casey Anthony these days.

Kibbler: I've long had a (bad) idea for a sci-fi-ish novel. The premise would be that CERN or one of those labs was fooling around, and they discovered some new particle that changes things around. Like, physical properties begin to alter around the world as the particle spreads. Friction, for example, changes, so machinery won't run right. Adhesion and cohesion, all the physical properties of atoms are affected to one degree or another, and humanity has to learn to adapt to this new reality. The story would be about how some people naturally find ways to capitalize on it, and most people are just screwed by it.

It occurred to me around 2005 or so that the premise of this novel had already taken place, but in the realm of politics rather than physics.

And just recently, we have seen the creation of a "Super Congress", with no basis in the constitution, with no basis in law, with no basis in precedent...they just pulled it out of their asses and said, "Here is how we're going to cram the agenda of the Koch Brothers Billionaire Club up America's fundament, without having to take responsibility for it...individual Congressmen will be able to say, hey, I wanted to amend it, but I couldn't, I could only vote up or down, and I had to vote for it, because it cuts spending, because it creates jobs, because it remembers the heroes, because it supports the troops, because it keeps America safe, whargarbl."

And this Super Congress has been decided upon, approved, and "announced," and we sheep just lift our heads, blink once, and go back to grazing. What, Congress no longer represents us on a per-district level? Baaaaaaah-baaaah ok. Single committee whose members are selected in a closed-door process over which we have no control? Baaaaaah-baaah ok.

This couldn't have happened before the whole 9/11 schmear. At the current rate, our votes will count, in practical terms, for literally nothing by 2021. We might "vote" for people, but their role will be limited to showing up in Washington, assembling in a large room, and saying, "Present" (or maybe "Support the troops") when they're presented with a "bill" that announces which 12 people will be running the country for the next two years. By then, I imagine, there will be no votes on "legislation", only "present" to indicate that your "representative" was in the room when the terms of the New Koch Deal was announced. By that point, I think that defense spending will probably have shrunk to $50 billion per year or so...there will be another part of the budget, the Patriot budget, on which nothing can be reported, not even to your "present"-voting representatives. Only the Super Congress will know what's in it. It will weigh in at around $900 billion per year.

Baaaaaah baah ok.

Now this is my kind of doomsday talk. Keep it up, sir.

Geez, 9/11 was a terrible tragedy, but it unified the nation... oh Jersey Shore is on!

I have only just recently gotten over it. I think the healing process really began around May 1st of this year. I knew I was over it on July 3rd as my neighbors and I toasted Seal Team Six many, many times over a Keg of Sam Adams Summer Ale while preparing for the following days celebrations. I remember the flags waving from porches all down my street. I remember the hot wives on my street wearing shorts and tight t-shirts sitting in a circle of lawn chairs under a shade tree. I remember the kids riding bikes and the teenagers looking bored. I remember the warm summer breeze and my bare feet in the grass. I remember thinking, "Right now a cold-blooded sea worm is wriggling through Osama bin Ladin's eye socket in the dark crushing depths of the sea." That's when I knew I was over it.

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: Jake Havechek: I am not going to watch FOX News Channel at all that day. History Channel has some good documentaries they show every year, though.

I would not depend on the History Channel for much longer. It's been 10 years now. It is only a matter of time before they make new documentaries detailing how the Illuminati and the ghost of Hitler joined forces to commit the terrorist attacks.

Actually, I'm waiting for the History Channel to have a show on how the reptilians might have caused 9/11, and then the followup where have the alligator hunters trying to track them down.

were told to forget slavery, so why wouldn't we forget 911?

9/11 was a tragedy, but at least we taught those Iraqis a lesson!

USA USA USA!

Iron Chef Scottish: Great. Apropos of nothing, how are the people in Iraq doing?

This. We owe them like a zillion amends and dollars for killing and maiming their people for no farking reason, and screwing up their country.

Apropos of everything, ICS!

Oh, I've not forgotten. It marked the day that USA went absolutely batshiat insane. I haven't flown since 2005, and it's not because I'm afraid of terrorists, it's because security kept getting worse and worse. My family won't fly until the TSA is but a rotten memory.

Our country went full retard, and shows no signs of stopping.

punistation: I'm vexed at the stupidity of Americans. VEXED.

[www.users.on.net image 600x1028]

Meanwhile, an entire generation of little boys in Iraq have at last grown into men, and know EXACTLY what they must do. No doubt, no hesitation, no regret. Like an arrow shot from the bow. The course is clear.

When Australia does anything meaningful, let us know

Karac: Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: Jake Havechek: I am not going to watch FOX News Channel at all that day. History Channel has some good documentaries they show every year, though.

I would not depend on the History Channel for much longer. It's been 10 years now. It is only a matter of time before they make new documentaries detailing how the Illuminati and the ghost of Hitler joined forces to commit the terrorist attacks.

Actually, I'm waiting for the History Channel to have a show on how the reptilians might have caused 9/11, and then the followup where have the alligator hunters trying to track them down.

Not a chance when they can show Pawn Stars, Swamp People and other "history in the making" shows.

dammitalltohell - we've had quite a bit of history spread out over many different major cultures. There's all sorts of facets to explore - the engineering, social concepts of justice, social interaction, what happens when they met other cultures (normally called war), trade, art, music, change over time, religion, etc. How that can get stale is beyond me.

And when did water become a Modern Marvel?!?

Was that when the Challenger exploded?

/Hey look, a bird.
//And a bicycle!

That's what I do when someone takes something I consider important and tries to use it to subvert my will and manipulate my opinion. I abandon that thing. I forget.

punistation: I'm vexed at the stupidity of Americans. VEXED.

[www.users.on.net image 600x1028]

Meanwhile, an entire generation of little boys in Iraq have at last grown into men, and know EXACTLY what they must do. No doubt, no hesitation, no regret. Like an arrow shot from the bow. The course is clear.

You should also remember that what happened in the Gulf War is what left a bad taste in many Iraqi lives. We let them down. Then we came back and finished what we started.

Saddam, his henchmen and, especially, his sons murdered, raped and tortured a quarter of a million *of his own people*, bombed a village with chemical weapons, used those weapons on Iran. He let his sons go into the streets at night and rape women in their limos and shoot random strangers. That's a leader a of a country not punishing his sons. Imagine how children must have looked up to him? Imagine culture of disgust and fear that spreads throughout a country? Never, ever are you safe. Ever.

Now, what of the Arab Spring? If you don't think the US and its wars (especially with the tools that were used, e.g. the Internet, Twitter and FB) had a large part in inspiring that type of revolution then I think you're nuts. It might end badly because of the Islamsists want what everyone wants (absolute power), but at least the course of action has dramatically changed how the Middle East functions and gets things done in a social way.

They got out and voted (with their chits or their voices or their lives).

Just like we do...or try to do.

NoGods: I have only just recently gotten over it. I think the healing process really began around May 1st of this year. I knew I was over it on July 3rd as my neighbors and I toasted Seal Team Six many, many times over a Keg of Sam Adams Summer Ale while preparing for the following days celebrations. I remember the flags waving from porches all down my street. I remember the hot wives on my street wearing shorts and tight t-shirts sitting in a circle of lawn chairs under a shade tree. I remember the kids riding bikes and the teenagers looking bored. I remember the warm summer breeze and my bare feet in the grass. I remember thinking, "Right now a cold-blooded sea worm is wriggling through Osama bin Ladin's eye socket in the dark crushing depths of the sea." That's when I knew I was over it.

Your newsletter would look nice on my coffee table.....

NeoBad: Osama to his General

We are going to blow up two buildings in the USA and realy fark up America. Oh and we are also going to get one blond with big foobies

They talk a while and the bartender is listening in and says, but why also one blond with big foobies?

Osama says to his General; See I told you know one would care about blowing up two buildings in America.....

From bash (new window):
#171987 +(13809)- [X]
Th3No0b Im going to be the next hitler
Th3No0b Im going to kill all the jews and 1 clown
RageAgainsttheAmish why the clown
Th3No0b See? no one cares about the jews
RageAgainsttheAmish lmao

Also, I'm flying on September 11th. I'm not too concerned.

Kibbler: At the current rate, our votes will count, in practical terms, for literally nothing by 2021.

Hell, I don't think our votes have meant anything, in practical terms, for quite a while now. Sure, currently the 'people' we elect are at least theoretically actually responsible for what goes on in washington, but practically speaking nobody who might actually have our best interests in mind is ever allowed any real power. The problem is that you generally need support from a major party, and I would more easily accept that I'm living in the matrix than I would the idea that a major party would *ever* give someone with any remaining shred of humanity their support. So we're left the 'choice' of electing Beelzebub or Belial, and the idea that we have 'free elections' (and the very public partisan animosity that accompanies them) keeps too many people distracted from noticing or caring about what's actually happening.

Does your kid want to be the last soldier to die in Iraq? Would he do so if asked?

Jake Havechek: And yet Hulk Hogan still runs free.

I still cannot get anybody to answer this simple question. What are we gonna do when Hulkamania runs wild on us??

PsiChi: Iron Chef Scottish: Great. Apropos of nothing, how are the people in Iraq doing?

This. We owe them like a zillion amends and dollars for killing and maiming their people for no farking reason, and screwing up their country.

Apropos of everything, ICS!

Fortunately the Iraqis are more resilient than the GED in History Majors like most farkers.

tommyl66: Jake Havechek: And yet Hulk Hogan still runs free.

I still cannot get anybody to answer this simple question. What are we gonna do when Hulkamania runs wild on us??

Much like the Spanish Inquisition, nobody expects Hulkamania to strike.

MuonNeutrino: Kibbler: At the current rate, our votes will count, in practical terms, for literally nothing by 2021.

Hell, I don't think our votes have meant anything, in practical terms, for quite a while now. Sure, currently the 'people' we elect are at least theoretically actually responsible for what goes on in washington, but practically speaking nobody who might actually have our best interests in mind is ever allowed any real power. The problem is that you generally need support from a major party, and I would more easily accept that I'm living in the matrix than I would the idea that a major party would *ever* give someone with any remaining shred of humanity their support. So we're left the 'choice' of electing Beelzebub or Belial, and the idea that we have 'free elections' (and the very public partisan animosity that accompanies them) keeps too many people distracted from noticing or caring about what's actually happening.

It's not that our votes don't count, its that regardless of who gets elected, they get into office and act according to their own agenda, religion, platform and bias; and completely ignore the will of the people they are meant to represent.
A REPRESENTATIVE democracy can't work at all in that situation.

Charlie Freak: The true personalities of the American people arose from that day.

I had never thought of it like that, but what you say there seems to ring true to me, and I can point to several examples of real people I know that seem to have undergone the same type of change. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

We're still willing to sign away all our freedoms to keep us safe from the terrorist boogeymen, and we're still horribly, horribly xenophobic. Bounced back? My ass.

MaliFinn: Possibly the reason why you've 'recovered so well' is because it wasn't that big a deal to begin with. Yeah sure it was unexpected, deadly, and a terrible tragedy, but here we are a decade later shiatting ourselves over someone carrying toothpaste on an airplane while thousands of people are killed in earthquakes in Haiti and Japan, thousands dying in ethnic violence in Africa, thousands more dying from aids and starvation, and we worry about one tall dude in a cave, while living under the little umbrella of safety and terrible danger provided by thousands of tons of nuclear weapons... in the scope of history and global events, the world trade center doesn't register a farking blip. Is 9/11 a disaster? No, Chernobyl is a disaster. Is 9/11 a tragedy? No, Darfur is a tragedy. Is 9/11 a war? No, Iraq is a war. Are we wounded? Only our pride. Are we hurt, as a country? Only through our own actions.

Roosevelt was right about having nothing to fear but fear itself.

What 9/11 was really damaging to was the government's psyche. WE the People have been having to tolerate it's knee-jerk gyrations for ten years since. WE are all treated like the enemy now, for we're not one of "them". The government goes apoplectic, protecting its own interests whenever there's a whiff of terrorism on the breeze. Meanwhile, you could pull an entire semi full of ANSO right up to front doors of countless hospitals across the country.

Besides, we've got bigger worries right now than the statistical probability of being hit by terrorists. Like the statistical probability that the idiots in our government have no farking idea what they're doing to the economy.

MaliFinn: Possibly the reason why you've 'recovered so well' is because it wasn't that big a deal to begin with.

And that's why bush kept reminding us how we needed to keep checking under our beds for terrorists. Alki Joe McCarthys playbook was Bush's reference.

hbk72777: When Australia does anything meaningful, let us know

Like blowing up a random country on the other side of the planet?

HeartBurnKid: We're still willing to sign away all our freedoms to keep us safe from the terrorist boogeymen, and we're still horribly, horribly xenophobic. Bounced back? My ass.

It seems to me that this isn't the case. That Congress passed the law and Bush signed it against the general will of the people, then Obama extended it.

halfof33: PsiChi: Iron Chef Scottish: Great. Apropos of nothing, how are the people in Iraq doing?

This. We owe them like a zillion amends and dollars for killing and maiming their people for no farking reason, and screwing up their country.

Apropos of everything, ICS!

Fortunately the Iraqis are more resilient than the GED in History Majors like most farkers.

[joeydevilla.com image 240x332]

We'll see about that in 10-20 years. it took until 1979 for the Iranians to strike back at the USA after the CIA deposed their elected leader and installed the Shah.

The part about 9/11 that blew my mind was hearing people say "how could this happen?"

Are you kidding me? Have you been sleeping through the world news your entire life?

MuonNeutrino: Kibbler: At the current rate, our votes will count, in practical terms, for literally nothing by 2021.

Hell, I don't think our votes have meant anything, in practical terms, for quite a while now. Sure, currently the 'people' we elect are at least theoretically actually responsible for what goes on in washington, but practically speaking nobody who might actually have our best interests in mind is ever allowed any real power. The problem is that you generally need support from a major party, and I would more easily accept that I'm living in the matrix than I would the idea that a major party would *ever* give someone with any remaining shred of humanity their support. So we're left the 'choice' of electing Beelzebub or Belial, and the idea that we have 'free elections' (and the very public partisan animosity that accompanies them) keeps too many people distracted from noticing or caring about what's actually happening.

Campaign finance reform is desperately needed.

ronaprhys: HeartBurnKid: We're still willing to sign away all our freedoms to keep us safe from the terrorist boogeymen, and we're still horribly, horribly xenophobic. Bounced back? My ass.

It seems to me that this isn't the case. That Congress passed the law and Bush signed it against the general will of the people, then Obama extended it.

One, it's not just one law. It's the Patriot Act, the TSA, the whole thing.

Two, if you think everybody was against it, you weren't paying attention. Sure I was, and you probably were, but there were, and still are, a lot of people talking about how necessary it was.

FFS, we're still arguing over whether giving the executive branch unilateral authority to spy on its own citizens, torture suspects, and hold suspects indefinitely without trial is a good thing or not. That's how paranoid we still are. That's how little we've bounced back. For any sane person, the answer would be "Of course not!"

MuonNeutrino: Kibbler: At the current rate, our votes will count, in practical terms, for literally nothing by 2021.

Hell, I don't think our votes have meant anything, in practical terms, for quite a while now. Sure, currently the 'people' we elect are at least theoretically actually responsible for what goes on in washington, but practically speaking nobody who might actually have our best interests in mind is ever allowed any real power. The problem is that you generally need support from a major party, and I would more easily accept that I'm living in the matrix than I would the idea that a major party would *ever* give someone with any remaining shred of humanity their support. So we're left the 'choice' of electing Beelzebub or Belial, and the idea that we have 'free elections' (and the very public partisan animosity that accompanies them) keeps too many people distracted from noticing or caring about what's actually happening.

Agreed. But right now we can toss out huge numbers (like, everyone in the House) every two years, and that can disrupt their plans. They want to make it so that, even if we do that, it won't matter. The new guys coming in won't have any ability to change things. The "Super Congress" will be twelve guys in safe districts, and even if one or two of them do get tossed, their replacements will be members of the insider club who are already on board with the agenda. So there will be 535 (or is it 538) members of Congress, and 523 of them won't matter. We will go from our votes having no practical effect to having no effect whatsoever. But the appearance of an elected legislative body will remain.

And the "liberal-biased" press will do their part in reporting "mass protests" demanding the kind of things that Super Congress wants.

Jake Havechek: We'll see about that in 10-20 years. it took until 1979 for the Iranians to strike back at the USA after the CIA deposed their elected leader and installed the Shah.

Saddam was their elected leader? You are ADORABLE!

What constitutes the bulwark of our liberty and our independence?

It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts. These are not our reliance against tyranny. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms.

Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow?

Never!

All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?

I answer: that if it ever reach us, it must spring from amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we, ourselves, must be its authors and finishers. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.

--Some Guy in a Tall Hat

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Jake Havechek: Does your kid want to be the last soldier to die in Iraq? Would he do so if asked?

The last American soldier to die in Iraq hasn't even been born yet.

That is by far the most depressing thought in this thread. My personal inability to do anything about that fact is wonderfully soul-crushing.

/it feels so 2003

halfof33: Jake Havechek: We'll see about that in 10-20 years. it took until 1979 for the Iranians to strike back at the USA after the CIA deposed their elected leader and installed the Shah.

Saddam was their elected leader? You are ADORABLE!

It's called a comparative analogy to US involvement in meddling in the affairs of another state. Read a book some time, cocksucker.

ttintagel: What constitutes the bulwark of our liberty and our independence?

It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts. These are not our reliance against tyranny. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms.

Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow?

Never!

All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?

I answer: that if it ever reach us, it must spring from amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we, ourselves, must be its authors and finishers. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.

--Some Guy in a Tall Hat

Man, that Humpty Hump sure had some sick lyrics back in the day...

We did fine psychologically. Our government and local officials still seem to have lost their damned minds. There are so many cases of people doing things, that 10 years ago, would have gotten you the "don't be a dumb-ass" speech from cops. But now, you get the full weight of the law thrown at you for the most minor of things. There was a story of a kid who put a blow up doll in the girls locker room. He is facing 5 years in jail and a felony because he snuck it in with a duffle bag.

I personally believe that any public official that says "In this post 9-11 world" as their reason for a obvious over reaction, and abuse of their authority, should loose their position and be pepper sprayed on the spot.

/maybe a light hearted tazering from the victim.

halfof33: Jake Havechek: We'll see about that in 10-20 years. it took until 1979 for the Iranians to strike back at the USA after the CIA deposed their elected leader and installed the Shah.

Saddam was their elected leader? You are ADORABLE!

you-point-missed.jpg

trifoldhat: We did fine psychologically. Our government and local officials still seem to have lost their damned minds. There are so many cases of people doing things, that 10 years ago, would have gotten you the "don't be a dumb-ass" speech from cops. But now, you get the full weight of the law thrown at you for the most minor of things. There was a story of a kid who put a blow up doll in the girls locker room. He is facing 5 years in jail and a felony because he snuck it in with a duffle bag.

I personally believe that any public official that says "In this post 9-11 world" as their reason for a obvious over reaction, and abuse of their authority, should loose their position and be pepper sprayed on the spot.

/maybe a light hearted tazering from the victim.

concur.