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(Boston.com)   The most effective government stimulus yet -- hoarders have increased sales of incandescent light bulbs by 20%   (boston.com) divider line 293
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4545 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Aug 2011 at 12:43 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



293 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-08-04 07:05:36 AM  
/facepalm
 
2011-08-04 07:10:55 AM  

Alphax: /facepalm


Make that two.
 
2011-08-04 07:11:04 AM  
I need to take advantage of this.

First it was ammunition and now light bulbs.

1) Carefully monitor the conservative poutrage machine and predict the next thing the morans will be hoarding.

3) profit!
 
2011-08-04 07:16:29 AM  
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.
 
2011-08-04 07:27:40 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: I need to take advantage of this.

First it was ammunition and now light bulbs.

1) Carefully monitor the conservative poutrage machine and predict the next thing the morans will be hoarding.

3) profit!


OMG you are farking BRILLIANT!

/Dashes off to set up freep account.
 
2011-08-04 07:31:24 AM  
Its as if the government is creating a black market with the ban. Unintended consequences I guess...
 
2011-08-04 07:51:48 AM  
what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

i hope you get stabbed in the neck lady.
 
2011-08-04 08:13:03 AM  
But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

This, right here? This is why America is doomed. Though it was nice for the Globe to put front and center how stupid the people opposing this are.
 
2011-08-04 08:57:55 AM  
But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

Lady, your kids need to go the fark outside.
 
2011-08-04 09:12:30 AM  
I have something like a 250 Watt equivalent CFL bulb in my living that gives off a warm glow and turns on instantly.

The horror.

The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.
 
2011-08-04 10:26:37 AM  
I'M NOT GONNA LET THE GUBMENT TAKE MAH LIGHTBULBS
 
2011-08-04 10:29:51 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier


I wonder if this dipshiat knows that you can buy CFLs with a variety of spectral outputs, including (my preference) the ones that mimic daylight. On two occasions, a guest at our house commented on the daylight-colored lighting. I turn on the track lighting next to the skylight, and you get a nice side-by-side of natural sunlight vs. the daylight CFLs. They're indistinguishable.

Oh, and they use 1/4 of the electricity of incandescents, and come with a 5-year warranty.

impaler: The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.


It's the same brigade that thinks we should be able to sell leaded gasoline and paint, and let the market decide that too. I'm sure they're hoarding all those delicious, delicious paint chips from pre-1978 housing so they don't run out of their favorite childhood breakfast food.

The market decides what's best for the marketers, not society as a whole.

Alphax: I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.


And even when they heat your house in the summer, they tend to be located near the ceiling, often recessed a little, which keeps them fully out of the room's airflow. It's approximately the dumbest possible way to heat a room. Buy CFLs and a space heater, and you'll come out ahead in both comfort and electricity use.
 
2011-08-04 10:38:45 AM  
TFA: And who wants to do the light bulb math required to figure out new wattage equivalents?

Well, if lumens is too complicated for you, you dumb bastard, you can always read the giant number on the CFL packaging explaining what incandescent bulb it replaces. If that's too complicated for you, you probably light your home by burning tires anyway.

For starters, they say, some new energy-efficient bulbs are not dimmable, and figuring out which ones are takes work.

It's hard to read the giant "DIMMABLE" portion of the packaging, too. Maybe you need to ask for help when buying something as complicated as a light bulb. The price is often greater than the biggest of all numbers: potato.

Heaven forbid these retards ever try to buy a washing machine or a water heater. They'd probably end up stuffing their dirty tube tops into the toaster by accident anyway. Better to stick with the crick, just like granpappy. Technology can't be trusted!
 
2011-08-04 10:45:38 AM  

chimp_ninja: It's hard to read the giant "DIMMABLE" portion of the packaging, too. Maybe you need to ask for help when buying something as complicated as a light bulb. The price is often greater than the biggest of all numbers: potato.


These same people cry about forced standardized food labeling as 'business killing federal regulation.' You see, food companies that decide to label food on their own should be able to sell more if that's what people want.
 
2011-08-04 10:49:00 AM  
What's with the love for incandescent bulbs, anyway? They put out a lot of heat in the summer, and they kill your electric bill.
 
2011-08-04 11:01:04 AM  
This graphic on the side is utter bullshiat as well

cache.boston.com

Just bought a new porch light. It uses 4x25w incandescent bulbs.
Problem solved.
 
2011-08-04 11:22:46 AM  
This thread has already become inadvertently hilarious.
 
2011-08-04 11:28:37 AM  
We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.
 
2011-08-04 11:32:20 AM  

impaler: These same people cry about forced standardized food labeling as 'business killing federal regulation.' You see, food companies that decide to label food on their own should be able to sell more if that's what people want.


api.ning.com
 
2011-08-04 11:37:44 AM  
img248.imageshack.us

"I ain't trust no dad gum librul light bulb what's made a gas."
 
2011-08-04 11:43:57 AM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.


1) You can walk down to Home Depot right now and buy halogen incandescents that meet the new efficiency standard. There's no ban on 'incandescents'. There's a new efficiency standard for residential lighting. People now make incandescents that meet it. The old ones don't.

2) Only fairly old CFL designs use a magnetic ballast, which gives a 60Hz signal. The newer ones use electronic ballasts, which operate at 20,000-60,000 Hz. Should fix the tube amp problem.
 
2011-08-04 12:19:04 PM  

cretinbob: This graphic on the side is utter bullshiat as well


The "Color Rendition Index" (100 equals daylight) is a little misleading. 100 equals a perfect black body radiator at the same color temperature as the light source. The sun's color temperature is around 5000k to 6000k, which CFLs and LEDs match better than incandescent (which usually have a CT of around 3000K)
 
2011-08-04 12:27:21 PM  
erroraccessdenied.com
 
2011-08-04 12:45:52 PM  
This is why people all over the world laugh at us: morons who take anything that the regressive outrage machine puts out and run with it.

I love America but there are days when I want to sew a Canadian flag on my backpack.
 
2011-08-04 12:46:49 PM  
They are gonna be so pissed when the see the more efficient incandescent bulbs still for sale.
 
2011-08-04 12:49:36 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: I need to take advantage of this.

First it was ammunition and now light bulbs.

1) Carefully monitor the conservative poutrage machine and predict the next thing the morans will be hoarding.

3) profit!


DOE's list of covered and soon to be covered products:

Link (new window)

Note that appliance and equipment minimum standards have been in place at least since the 90s.
 
2011-08-04 12:50:04 PM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.


The bulbs aren't your problem. I have them everywhere in my house and I can't hear them on a machine built to detect microvolts of RF.
 
2011-08-04 12:52:05 PM  
See, that's the problem with the government. They're trying to encourage people to use solar and wind power. They need to start banning them instead and everyone would jump on board and buy up all the wind turbines they could.
 
2011-08-04 12:52:58 PM  

Alphax: I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.


I'm more thinking they just want to keep their lava lamps going.

/Has one
//Still trying to figure out what to do
 
2011-08-04 12:53:00 PM  

paygun: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

The bulbs aren't your problem. I have them everywhere in my house and I can't hear them on a machine built to detect microvolts of RF.


ya, sounds like someone screwed up the grounding somewhere
 
2011-08-04 12:53:20 PM  
I got a big box of 100 watt incandescent bulbs from work after they were marked out of inventory about 5 years ago. Seems like I am sitting on a gold mine!

And I'd be doing even better if the damn things would stop blowing every 2 months.
 
2011-08-04 12:53:21 PM  
They dun took our bulbs
 
2011-08-04 12:53:55 PM  
Turncoat!
img101.imageshack.us
 
2011-08-04 12:53:55 PM  
Feh, that's nothing, you should see my stash of non-low-flow toilets!
 
2011-08-04 12:55:26 PM  
Cree just demoed a new, uber LED bulb a couple days ago. IMHO, it's sexyness on a plug:

1,300 lumens, 8.7 watts (150 lumens per watt.) CRI = over 90.
i.i.com.com
Link (new window)

It's just a prototype right now, but it's a working prototype. They just need to streamline the production to make it happen.
 
2011-08-04 12:57:01 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

Lady, your kids need to go the fark outside.


one of the problems industry wide is the issue of form factor. Incandescent light bulbs are generally the A19 style and CFL's get HUGE in comparison as wattages get past oh...40 watts or so. Many fixtures (especially ceiling ones) will not fit anything but a short necked incandescent.

fixture designers need to keep up with present and emerging lighting technologies.

/sells and has sold commercial LED fixtures and many many CFL's...HID and induction lighting systems...and ofc high efficiency t8 and t5 linear fluorescents.

//libertarian who knows how fiscally responsible it is to have efficient lighting.
///you can save more by having your pupmps motors and drives modernized though and your water heating systems...and environmental controls...etc.
 
2011-08-04 12:57:41 PM  
Alphax
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

Or there are others who haven't had good luck with reliable CFL bulbs and would rather pay $1.18 for 4 instead of $12 for something that lasts just as long.

I think once again the government wants to push technology for efficiency but cost will ultimately drive demand.
 
2011-08-04 12:59:07 PM  
I hope the feds don't find out I'm whaling on the weekends.
 
2011-08-04 12:59:44 PM  

zedster: ya, sounds like someone screwed up the grounding somewhere


Yep, no ground. Or tube amps designed in 1948 plus no ground.
 
2011-08-04 01:00:26 PM  

TDBoedy: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

Lady, your kids need to go the fark outside.

one of the problems industry wide is the issue of form factor. Incandescent light bulbs are generally the A19 style and CFL's get HUGE in comparison as wattages get past oh...40 watts or so. Many fixtures (especially ceiling ones) will not fit anything but a short necked incandescent.

fixture designers need to keep up with present and emerging lighting technologies.

/sells and has sold commercial LED fixtures and many many CFL's...HID and induction lighting systems...and ofc high efficiency t8 and t5 linear fluorescents.

//libertarian who knows how fiscally responsible it is to have efficient lighting.
///you can save more by having your pupmps motors and drives modernized though and your water heating systems...and environmental controls...etc.


I'm replacing the crappy old dial thermostats with programmable digital ones this fall.

Now if I could just afford to ditch the ceiling heat altogether, I'd be a happy camper.
 
2011-08-04 01:00:45 PM  
Just wait until the hoarders begin deciding if a lamp is incandescent light worthy.
 
2011-08-04 01:00:52 PM  

impaler: I have something like a 250 Watt equivalent CFL bulb in my living that gives off a warm glow and turns on instantly.

The horror.

The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.


I imagined you drooling and wearing a diaper when you typed that.

What, pray tell, would the market have decided? (If using your scenario, the sheep were NOT told this about CFLs) How would the market have reached it's conclusion?
 
2011-08-04 01:01:35 PM  
I have never gotten long life out of the CFLs. I change them as often as incandecents. If the LED ones wernt 40 goddamn dollars...
 
2011-08-04 01:01:45 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Alphax
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

Or there are others who haven't had good luck with reliable CFL bulbs and would rather pay $1.18 for 4 instead of $12 for something that lasts just as long.

I think once again the government wants to push technology for efficiency but cost will ultimately drive demand.


THIS.
 
2011-08-04 01:01:48 PM  
If you plan on hoarding it should be for florescent bulbs not the incandescent ones. The newer bulbs will require you to change out your ballasts. This is not something to be concerned with for incandescent bulbs.

/mercury for everyone!!!
// Yeah!!!!!!
 
ecl
2011-08-04 01:02:28 PM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.


Der yer raight! Mah tueb ampe cain't harndel al teh juhice!
RABBLERABBLERABBLE
THEY TOOK MAH JOB!
THANKS GUBMINT!!@!
 
2011-08-04 01:02:44 PM  

MrSteve007: Cree just demoed a new, uber LED bulb a couple days ago. IMHO, it's sexyness on a plug:

i.i.com.com

1,300 lumens, 8.7 watts (150 lumens per watt.) CRI = over 90.
[i.i.com.com image 270x406]
Link (new window)

It's just a prototype right now, but it's a working prototype. They just need to streamline the production to make it happen.




WANT WANT WANT


Right now I have ceiling "can lights". I need something in the 1200 lumens + range given the can spacing. I have the slowness of CFL and I want to keep my dimmer.

If this light comes out at an OK price I am going all LED.
 
2011-08-04 01:04:24 PM  
You can easily compensate for the fact that the CFL bulbs don't get instantly bright when you first turn them on - just develop the habit of turning on a light a few minutes before you spend any length of time in the room it lights, and don't turn the lights off if you're only leaving there for a few minutes.

Easy.
 
2011-08-04 01:05:33 PM  
chimp_ninja:
There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.


Emphasis supplied. Regardless, right-wing lies are impossible to rebut because right-wingers don't care about facts.
 
2011-08-04 01:05:46 PM  
When I go out to barns in cold weather, the incandescents come on full brightness and stay bright. CFLs? Notsomuch...

Break a CFL it's a toxic mess. Break an incandescent? Notsomuch..

Unattended CFLs have been documented catching on fire. Incandescents? Notsomuch.

WHAR THE DAYLIGHT CFLs???? All I ever see on the shelf are those "warm" CFLs that give off the sickly yellowish light.

/got my stock
 
2011-08-04 01:06:00 PM  

DozeNutz: Its as if the government is creating a black market with the ban. Unintended consequences I guess...


The government is not creating a black market. People opposed to the government are creating a black market. or, are you suggesting that people who oppose the government are helpless and are actually under the direction of the government?
 
2011-08-04 01:06:39 PM  
/until the lights go out
 
2011-08-04 01:08:25 PM  
They are trying to spur the economy by spending more on electricity. You libs know nothing.
 
2011-08-04 01:09:06 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: chimp_ninja: There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

Emphasis supplied. Regardless, right-wing lies are impossible to rebut because right-wingers don't care about facts.


Typical liberal subterfuge. So we can still get incandescents? They're going to continue to be made? No, there's no BAN. But there is a REQUIREMENT that bulbs be more energy efficient.

Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.
 
2011-08-04 01:09:44 PM  
Who wants to trade 100W bulbs for some of my DDT stash?
 
2011-08-04 01:09:52 PM  
I imagine that these people will be just as successful at the nostradomi who stocked up on ammunition pernding theinevitable Obama ban thereof.

How many of these CFL threads do we have a week? At least one or two?

How dim do you have to be to still not gather that there is no "ban on incandescent light bulbs." You are literally "stocking up" on something that everyone will be able to continue buying in the stores.

Did people stock up on lead paint once the government regulated that? Did people shout "OMG The government is banning PAINT!" When did we get *so stupid* as a nation? Holy Fark.
 
2011-08-04 01:09:58 PM  
Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?
 
2011-08-04 01:10:45 PM  
Fester is vexed. The CFLs don't light up right, and they hurt his tongue.
 
2011-08-04 01:10:47 PM  

MrSteve007: Cree just demoed a new, uber LED bulb a couple days ago. IMHO, it's sexyness on a plug:

1,300 lumens, 8.7 watts (150 lumens per watt.) CRI = over 90.
[i.i.com.com image 270x406]
Link (new window)

It's just a prototype right now, but it's a working prototype. They just need to streamline the production to make it happen.


Oh hell yes. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
 
2011-08-04 01:10:49 PM  

impaler: 250 Watt equivalent CFL bulb in my living that gives off a warm glow and turns on instantly.


Dimmable? Link?

SpectroBoy: Right now I have ceiling "can lights". I need something in the 1200 lumens + range given the can spacing. I have the slowness of CFL and I want to keep my dimmer.


Right there with you. I have can lights in two rooms, tried replacing the big-watt floods with CFLs and the results were horrible. Either too dim (why can't I get a 150+W equivalent bulb? Must be a size issue?) or horrible, horrible effects in the light (shadows created by CFL-ed flood bulbs are _not_ the same as incandescent).

Holding out hope LEDs are the solution, but the price has to come down. I already have boxes of Lighting Fail from trying once already, I can't afford to drop ($30+ x many) to be disappointed again.

Really would like to replace those bulbs, though. I am open to suggestions.

But, I do think there's a big risk of false environmentalism, too -- every time someone has given me shiat for my incandescent bulbs, I ask them where their thermostat is set. If you're running at 65-70 (or more!) in the winter or 70-74 (or less!) in the summer in your unnecessarily large McMansion, I don't care how many efficient bulbs you bought to make yourself feel better.
 
2011-08-04 01:10:59 PM  

The Homer Tax: I imagine that these people will be just as successful at the nostradomi who stocked up on ammunition pernding theinevitable Obama ban thereof.

How many of these CFL threads do we have a week? At least one or two?

How dim do you have to be to still not gather that there is no "ban on incandescent light bulbs." You are literally "stocking up" on something that everyone will be able to continue buying in the stores.

Did people stock up on lead paint once the government regulated that? Did people shout "OMG The government is banning PAINT!" When did we get *so stupid* as a nation? Holy Fark.


I'm thinking around the time they banned lead paint. We did elect Reagan shortly thereafter...
 
2011-08-04 01:11:47 PM  
Part of my job is to spec bulbs for commercial projects, including renovations. Here's an example of a recent project:

Art gallery on Maui:
-Electricity is $0.36 kWh
-They use 160, 75 watt halogen lamps (par 30)
-They operate 18 hours a day
-The gallery is air conditioned.

Total *daily* cost lighting = $77.76
Annual lighting operation cost = $28,382
Lamps require replacement every 6 months.

Replace the halogen lamps with 94 CRI, LED lamps. Link (new window)
www.creeledlighting.com
Cost per lamp is $80.

Total cost of replacement: $12,800

Daily LED cost: $12.44
Annual LED operational cost: $4,541
Lamps require replacement every 7 1/2 years.

Also, factor in that the total air conditioning load will be reduced by half (currently $80 a day in A/C), and you can see that switching to LEDs, especially in areas that require air conditioning, it a no brainer. In this high cost location, it pays for itself in less than one year.

Annual lighting energy savings = -$23,841
Annual A/C energy savings = -$14,600

Total Annual energy savings = -$38,441
 
2011-08-04 01:12:53 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


No. From all I have heard animal cage bulbs are exempt. You won't necessarily be able to get the el-cheapo ones, but you'll still be able to get heat to your animals.
 
2011-08-04 01:13:28 PM  

Buffco: So we can still get incandescents?


Yes.

They're going to continue to be made?

Yes.

No, there's no BAN. But there is a REQUIREMENT that bulbs be more energy efficient.

Yes.

Incandescents can't meet the requirement.

No.

Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.

No.

There are multitudes of incandescent bulbs that meet the new requirements available in stores right now. I don't know how many bulbs it takes to light the inside of one's own colon, but you'll never ever have to do so with a CFL bulb if you choose not to.
 
2011-08-04 01:13:32 PM  

t rotsky: This is why people all over the world laugh at us: morons who take anything that the regressive outrage machine puts out and run with it.

I love America but there are days when I want to sew a Canadian flag on my backpack.


/sorry, pet peeve
 
2011-08-04 01:13:49 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


Worst case, you will have to get one of the overpriced "heat" bulbs from the pet store. But I bet that whatever replaces the 100w in the incandessant type will still be quite hot.
 
2011-08-04 01:13:59 PM  

Buffco: Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.


New incandescent bulb that meets new energy-efficiency standards. (new window)

Ta-da.

Have you called Goldline yet, Buffco?
 
2011-08-04 01:14:02 PM  
This post is a wharrgarbl-free zone. Just the facts.

i167.photobucket.com

This is the law in question. It's a hell of a long law, and covers a lot more than just light bulbs. It was furthermore passed in 2007, so if you want to blame B. Hussein Osama, blame him for voting for it in the Senate.

Search for "GENERAL SERVICE INCANDESCENT LAMPS". It's down in section 321. That'll tell you what's going to happen soon. It's written in terms of brightness, not wattage -- it's kind of senseless to say "100 watt bulbs must not use more than 72 watts."

What's going to happen starting next year is that bulbs between 1490 and 2600 lumens (currently 100 to 150 watts) will be limited to 72 watts. Bulbs are available already that can meet this standard. They're halogen bulbs -- not CFLs, not LEDs, halogen bulbs. That's the same kind that nearly every motor vehicle on the road uses as its headlamps.

Come 2013 and 2014, similar standards kick in for bulbs down to 310 lumens (currently 40 watts).

2020 is when general-service incandescents get banned de facto. The actual rule is "45 lumens per watt." CFLs and LEDs can meet this mark; incandescents (including halogens) can't.
 
2011-08-04 01:15:34 PM  
Freedom-hating libs banning bulbs hasn't affected me. I already use a combination of 30 CFL and LED lights in my house.

The WalMart generic CFLs have been reliable, and the only warm up issues are with the ones needed outside during the winter, and even then they take only a minute to brighten.

If I was sure it would work, I'd convert the brake and signaling lights on my older Jeep to LED so I never have to replace the farking things. Too many dumbass American car manufactures are still using incandescent vehicle lights.
 
2011-08-04 01:15:55 PM  

meat0918: WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?

No. From all I have heard animal cage bulbs are exempt. You won't necessarily be able to get the el-cheapo ones, but you'll still be able to get heat to your animals.


So, from a purely cost-effectiveness standpoint (assuming that I have adequate space to do so, which I do), I'd do well to stock up? Those specialty heat lamps are about $6-7 each.
 
2011-08-04 01:16:38 PM  
1. While Halogens are touted as the replacement for incandescent, they run 1.5x hotter than regular light bulbs, which rules them out for many fixtures. These bulbs run so hot they use them to keep "astronaut chickens" (the chickens in the plastic bubbles) in the grocery stores here warm.

2. Over and over it gets pounded into our heads that we must recycle these. My reaction is--So what? What if I don't? 90% of Americans will have this attitude. I'm so tired of the damn Greenies not addressing this issue and the total hypocrisy surrounding it.

3. I've seen so many numbers being thrown around that truly smell of rectal extraction. How is it that when residential lighting makes up about 6% of the total draw on the grid, that this switchover is truly going to make a difference?


4. The real reason behind the switch is profit. Pure. Corporate. Greed. However, there's some talk, albeit quietly, about a possible worldwide tungsten shortage, which in reality, makes quite a bit of sense.

Chimp Ninja

-This is most definitely a ban. If the bulb can't reach a certain standard, it cannot be sold. Again, it CANT BE SOLD. This effectively removes the most common incandescent bulbs from the market.
 
2011-08-04 01:16:42 PM  

meat0918: TDBoedy: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

Lady, your kids need to go the fark outside.

one of the problems industry wide is the issue of form factor. Incandescent light bulbs are generally the A19 style and CFL's get HUGE in comparison as wattages get past oh...40 watts or so. Many fixtures (especially ceiling ones) will not fit anything but a short necked incandescent.

fixture designers need to keep up with present and emerging lighting technologies.

/sells and has sold commercial LED fixtures and many many CFL's...HID and induction lighting systems...and ofc high efficiency t8 and t5 linear fluorescents.

//libertarian who knows how fiscally responsible it is to have efficient lighting.
///you can save more by having your pupmps motors and drives modernized though and your water heating systems...and environmental controls...etc.

I'm replacing the crappy old dial thermostats with programmable digital ones this fall.

Now if I could just afford to ditch the ceiling heat altogether, I'd be a happy camper.


Yeah my problem with homes is that nearly any investment you make in them has a much longer pay back period than say a business due to the operating hours of the business being a greater portion of any given day. The avg homeowner uses their lights for roughly 4hrs a day seasonally adjusted of course. The average business is eight hours. So for you home owners out there...the technologies will save you money...but they save you MORE faster if you used more to begin with. That is sorta how it works.

And to top it off if enough people use less energy they HAVE to raise electrical rates to maintain either the proper staffing and maint levels (for munis) and for privately owned they are guaranteed a certain profit level by the state enforce monopolies.

Yeah it works that way at least on the distribution side...generation is a bit more competitive as they go out to bid each day to sell their power.
 
2011-08-04 01:17:22 PM  
The ban is indeed idiocy. The ban is against the manufacture of these bulbs, not the sale or possession of them. Guess what? The last factory producing incandescent bulbs in the U.S. closed earlier this year. All of them are made overseas now. What is more, their is new incandescent bulb technology that makes them as energy efficient and long lasting as a CFL at about the same cost as a bulb today. These will be available in Europe soon.

So why the band? Is it really about energy use reduction? Not a bit of it. It takes more energy to manufacture a CFL than it saves in use. It's about money. How can a government that allows a six-mile-per-gallon sport utility tank to be manufactured and sold possibly think it comes off as concerned about lowing energy usage by banning a few light bulbs? It's ludicrous. It's America.
 
2011-08-04 01:17:58 PM  

SpectroBoy: Right now I have ceiling "can lights". I need something in the 1200 lumens + range given the can spacing. I have the slowness of CFL and I want to keep my dimmer.

If this light comes out at an OK price I am going all LED.


I've had really good luck with their LR6-DR1000 (new window), for 6' inch can replacements. However, don't use them in home theatre locations, as they only dim to 20%, then cut out. They're on the higher end of the price scale @ ~$120 a fixture.

The CR6 (new window) is much less bright (only 650 lumen), but works awesome in low level dimming situations (I use it in my living room), and is quite a bit cheaper. If you look around, they can be found for ~$45 at Home Depot.
 
2011-08-04 01:19:01 PM  

Buffco: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Alphax
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

Or there are others who haven't had good luck with reliable CFL bulbs and would rather pay $1.18 for 4 instead of $12 for something that lasts just as long.

I think once again the government wants to push technology for efficiency but cost will ultimately drive demand.

THIS.


Your wires suck.

Seriously - you probably have a short or some bad voltage fluctuations. I've had a CFL bulb for 8 years and 3 moves - it lives in a desk lamp that gets switched off/on many times a day.
 
2011-08-04 01:19:26 PM  
I'm a big fan of LED lights but will say that the cheap-ass pack of LED vanity lights I bought at Sam's Club burned out after only about a year.

That'll piss you off... I'm assuming the bulbs have a cheap transformer or that the LED's were wired in series instead of parallel and when one burned out, well...

Long story short: Don't go cheap on your LED lights and save your friggin' receipt.
 
2011-08-04 01:20:04 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


EXACTLY, I mean how did reptiles ever survive without light bulbs in the first place? I mean, Noah must have had light bulbs, right?
 
2011-08-04 01:21:21 PM  
The Homer Tax:
There are multitudes of incandescent bulbs that meet the new requirements available in stores right now. I don't know how many bulbs it takes to light the inside of one's own colon, but you'll never ever have to do so with a CFL bulb if you choose not to.

Ok, now that was funny. Snarky, subtle and funny.

/Tip o' the hat.
//rushing off to listen to more Glenn Beck
 
2011-08-04 01:21:42 PM  

mark12A: Break a CFL it's a toxic mess. Break an incandescent? Notsomuch..

Unattended CFLs have been documented catching on fire. Incandescents? Notsomuch.

/got my stock


This. Any of you who actually buy CFLs need to go research what to do if one breaks on your floor. Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away. That's how poisonous this shiat is. Remember, kids, mercury is a neurotoxin!

CFL disposal: Link (new window)
 
2011-08-04 01:21:44 PM  

Buffco:
Typical liberal subterfuge. So we can still get incandescents? They're going to continue to be made? No, there's no BAN. But there is a REQUIREMENT that bulbs be more energy efficient.

Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.


guess u rednecks still don't know how to read the newspapers huh?
 
2011-08-04 01:22:57 PM  

chimp_ninja: I wonder if this dipshiat knows that you can buy CFLs with a variety of spectral outputs, including (my preference) the ones that mimic daylight. On two occasions, a guest at our house commented on the daylight-colored lighting. I turn on the track lighting next to the skylight, and you get a nice side-by-side of natural sunlight vs. the daylight CFLs. They're indistinguishable.


I use CFLs, but this simply is not true. It is getting better but they aren't there yet.
 
2011-08-04 01:23:02 PM  
i.imgur.com

Lumen? What does she have to do with anything?
 
2011-08-04 01:23:07 PM  

walkerhound: WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?

EXACTLY, I mean how did reptiles ever survive without light bulbs in the first place? I mean, Noah must have had light bulbs, right?


If you want to keep your house around 90-100 degrees, by all means, your reptile would do well without a heat lamp in his cage, depending on the species. Me, I'd rather keep my house at a human comfort level, and have a relatively small box providing the needed heat for my desert-native pets to thrive.
 
2011-08-04 01:24:54 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: not CFLs, not LEDs, halogen bulbs


Halogens put out a horrific amount of heat though. You are not allowed to put them into many fixtures due to the heat.
 
2011-08-04 01:25:12 PM  

farm machine: If you plan on hoarding it should be for florescent bulbs not the incandescent ones. The newer bulbs will require you to change out your ballasts. This is not something to be concerned with for incandescent bulbs.

/mercury for everyone!!!
// Yeah!!!!!!


If you have old T-12's in your building, it's far past time to upgrade anyway. Lighting retrofit these days to a nice T-5 will usually see less than a 3 year payback. Unless we're upset that the gubmint is making us be a tad foresighted...
 
2011-08-04 01:25:59 PM  

Buffco: Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da


And how is the impact of this any different than an outright ban? Oh, that's right - pedantic semantics.

Sad part is the government action will push people to waste money on technologies that are still developing. So, they'll pay more and get less than they would if they were able to wait until the technologies were more mature. The right answer (considering today's available tech) is to get to LED light ASAP, but it'll take a while for the functionality to improve and price to decline. My strategy is to skip over the rollout of relatively expensive, crappy tech CFLs and in two years go straight to LEDs. Better for energy consumption, better for the environment, better for my wallet.
 
2011-08-04 01:26:14 PM  

ph0rk: Buffco: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Alphax
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

Or there are others who haven't had good luck with reliable CFL bulbs and would rather pay $1.18 for 4 instead of $12 for something that lasts just as long.

I think once again the government wants to push technology for efficiency but cost will ultimately drive demand.

THIS.

Your wires suck.

Seriously - you probably have a short or some bad voltage fluctuations. I've had a CFL bulb for 8 years and 3 moves - it lives in a desk lamp that gets switched off/on many times a day.


Perfect example of the stupidity of this. Voltage fluctuations kill these bulbs faster, and people who do live at the end of heavily used power lines, can experience wild voltage swings. The CFL's ARE more expensive for these people, and make no sense because they can't really use them.
 
2011-08-04 01:26:31 PM  

JackieRabbit: What is more, their is new incandescent bulb technology that makes them as energy efficient and long lasting as a CFL at about the same cost as a bulb today. These will be available in Europe soon.


They're actually available here, now.

There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs. If an incandescent light bulb is energy efficient, it can be sold. Many are already. There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs
 
2011-08-04 01:26:45 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: If you want to keep your house around 90-100 degrees, by all means, your reptile would do well without a heat lamp in his cage, depending on the species. Me, I'd rather keep my house at a human comfort level, and have a relatively small box providing the needed heat for my desert-native pets to thrive.


So how did both the polar bears and reptiles survive on the ark?

/I sense your sarcasm and do not find it funny.
 
2011-08-04 01:27:58 PM  

PsiChi: This. Any of you who actually buy CFLs need to go research what to do if one breaks on your floor. Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away. That's how poisonous this shiat is. Remember, kids, mercury is a neurotoxin!


Fun stats on mercury in our lives:

The amount of mercury in a CFL is 4-5 millgrams - which is roughly the same amount that's in a couple servings of tuna.

The average mercury thermometer has 500 milligrams.

The average, older thermostat has 5,000 milligrams of mercury.
 
2011-08-04 01:28:45 PM  

Artcurus: The CFL's ARE more expensive for these people, and make no sense because they can't really use them.


If CFLs are more expensive for them, then those people would be unwise to use CFLs.
 
2011-08-04 01:28:47 PM  
Someday I'm going to cash in on this hoard of rotary phones I've got stashed away in my basement.
 
2011-08-04 01:29:19 PM  

Artcurus: Perfect example of the stupidity of this. Voltage fluctuations kill these bulbs faster, and people who do live at the end of heavily used power lines, can experience wild voltage swings. The CFL's ARE more expensive for these people, and make no sense because they can't really use them.


Get your power fixed. You'll also frag less consumer electric devices, as they tend to put shiatty voltage regulators in those, too.

I bet you could argue that you still "need" leaded gasoline for some relic automobile, but the Government's answer is the same: too bad, get with the times.

(Also stop polluting, you big jerk!)
 
2011-08-04 01:29:38 PM  

Mentat: I'M NOT GONNA LET THE GUBMENT TAKE MAH LIGHTBULBS


YOU CAN HAVE MY LIGHTBULBS WHEN YOU PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DARK FINGERS!!!
 
2011-08-04 01:29:52 PM  

meat0918: WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?

No. From all I have heard animal cage bulbs are exempt. You won't necessarily be able to get the el-cheapo ones, but you'll still be able to get heat to your animals.


That's interesting, I was wondering if that type of bulb would be under the same category as appliance bulbs. I've only used a variety of florescents and CFLs (need to produce UVB) for almost a decade now though. I used to hate the old incandescent mercury vapor bulbs, they were expensive and had horrible failure rates.
 
2011-08-04 01:30:26 PM  
Seems like a great alternative when there is a two page manual on what to do if a CFL breaks.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/lighting/cfls/downloads/CFL_Cleanup_and_D i sposal.pdf

"Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more"
Really? This is a better option?
 
2011-08-04 01:30:40 PM  

The Homer Tax: Artcurus: The CFL's ARE more expensive for these people, and make no sense because they can't really use them.

If CFLs are more expensive for them, then those people would be unwise to use CFLs.


And after the ban? Again, considering that Halogens aren't quite the be all end all.
 
2011-08-04 01:31:10 PM  

MrSteve007: Fun stats on mercury in our lives:

The amount of mercury in a CFL is 4-5 millgrams - which is roughly the same amount that's in a couple servings of tuna.

The average mercury thermometer has 500 milligrams.

The average, older thermostat has 5,000 milligrams of mercury.


All the people concerned about the amount of mercury in a CFL should walk into their children school and look up. Try not to have a heart attack resulting from what you see.

Same goes for any hospital, public building, or office. If you're at work right now and care about the amount of Mercury in CFLs, look up. AAAAH! Hanging Death Traps of Poisonous Doom!
 
2011-08-04 01:31:36 PM  

The Homer Tax: I imagine that these people will be just as successful at the nostradomi who stocked up on ammunition pernding theinevitable Obama ban thereof.

How many of these CFL threads do we have a week? At least one or two?

How dim do you have to be to still not gather that there is no "ban on incandescent light bulbs." You are literally "stocking up" on something that everyone will be able to continue buying in the stores.

Did people stock up on lead paint once the government regulated that? Did people shout "OMG The government is banning PAINT!" When did we get *so stupid* as a nation? Holy Fark.


My running theory is that the median age is approaching the average age at which dementia begins to manifest.

That, and a critical lack of education funding over the past fifty years.
 
2011-08-04 01:31:44 PM  
Oh look, it's this shiatty thread again.
 
2011-08-04 01:31:47 PM  
What does this mean for the Easy-Bake Oven people?
 
2011-08-04 01:32:15 PM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.


media.digikey.com
THIS


also I have a CFL that's been on continuously over my garage for 8+ years. We are doing some renovation and I'm not sure I want to replace it :(
 
2011-08-04 01:32:16 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Lee Jackson Beauregard: not CFLs, not LEDs, halogen bulbs

Halogens put out a horrific amount of heat though. You are not allowed to put them into many fixtures due to the heat.


The heat output of any bulb is the wattage that goes in minus the light that comes out. That 72 watt halogen bulb is going to run cooler than the 100 watt bulb that it replaced -- 28 watts cooler, to be exact. The halogen bulbs that run hot are ones that are fitted to fixtures meant for halogens -- that 72 watt bulb looks just like the 100 watt one, and screws into the same socket.

/Fμcking physics, how does it work?
 
2011-08-04 01:32:56 PM  

JackieRabbit: their is new incandescent bulb technology that makes them as energy efficient and long lasting as a CFL at about the same cost as a bulb today


[citation needed]

Energy efficient enough to meet the standard? Yes.
Energy efficient as CFLs? No.
 
2011-08-04 01:33:10 PM  

Artcurus: And after the ban? Again, considering that Halogens aren't quite the be all end all.


What ban? There is no ban.

Good lord, get it through your head. There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs. Where are you getting your information from? That person is either uninformed themselves, lying to you, or both.
 
2011-08-04 01:35:20 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Alphax
I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

Or there are others who haven't had good luck with reliable CFL bulbs and would rather pay $1.18 for 4 instead of $12 for something that lasts just as long.

I think once again the government wants to push technology for efficiency but cost will ultimately drive demand.


That's where I stand. I've had really bad luck with CFL's. I tried one a few years back in a recessed kitchen light and it actually caught fire. I saw it flickering strangely, and walked over to see what the problem was. At that moment, there was a pop, and electrical sizzle, and a burst of flame from the base.

Still, I've tried to use them in other rooms. I replaced the bathroom lights with them and found that the light quality was terrible. I tried them in the pantry, which has a motion sensor, and discovered that the sensor apparently allows a slight amount of wattage though and it causes the bulb to be on slightly even when the light was off. I used two of them in my outside garage lights, but the quality of the light was so poor they were basically decoration.

I still use them in a couple of utility rooms, and a couple high watt equivilants in the garage.

I think these things got pushed before the technology was ready for it, and now people have a history of bad experiences.

Mind you, I really want to lower my energy use, but finally I'm seeing LED's come into their own. I've replaced all four incandescents in my sons ceiling fan with new Philips LED bulbs and the light is better than ever, and the bulbs are nearly indestructible.
 
2011-08-04 01:37:04 PM  

MrSteve007: PsiChi: This. Any of you who actually buy CFLs need to go research what to do if one breaks on your floor. Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away. That's how poisonous this shiat is. Remember, kids, mercury is a neurotoxin!

Fun stats on mercury in our lives:

The amount of mercury in a CFL is 4-5 millgrams - which is roughly the same amount that's in a couple servings of tuna.

The average mercury thermometer has 500 milligrams.

The average, older thermostat has 5,000 milligrams of mercury.


If I had a nickle for every time I dropped my 50 year old thermostat...


/not an anti CFL nutter
//but you make no valid point
 
2011-08-04 01:37:38 PM  
eh, use what you like. I like the CFLs because they are super cheap right now. I can buy four 100w equivalent bulbs for a $1. they may take a minute to warm up but they are cheaper than regular bulbs and save me money on my electrical bill. If they help with global warming then I consider it a free bonus.
 
2011-08-04 01:38:15 PM  

MrSteve007: Cree just demoed a new, uber LED bulb a couple days ago. IMHO, it's sexyness on a plug:

1,300 lumens, 8.7 watts (150 lumens per watt.) CRI = over 90.
[i.i.com.com image 270x406]
Link (new window)

It's just a prototype right now, but it's a working prototype. They just need to streamline the production to make it happen.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2011-08-04 01:38:37 PM  

ph0rk: Artcurus: Perfect example of the stupidity of this. Voltage fluctuations kill these bulbs faster, and people who do live at the end of heavily used power lines, can experience wild voltage swings. The CFL's ARE more expensive for these people, and make no sense because they can't really use them.

Get your power fixed. You'll also frag less consumer electric devices, as they tend to put shiatty voltage regulators in those, too.

I bet you could argue that you still "need" leaded gasoline for some relic automobile, but the Government's answer is the same: too bad, get with the times.

(Also stop polluting, you big jerk!)


Leaded gasoline I don't give a damn about, most autos can run on unleaded with additives or straight from the pump.. If these people can't get this situation resolved?
 
2011-08-04 01:38:49 PM  

Tellingthem: I can buy four 100w equivalent bulbs for a $1.


Where? I want some.
 
2011-08-04 01:39:33 PM  

The Homer Tax: I don't know how many bulbs it takes to light the inside of one's own colon


That would probably be exempted as a "specialty bulb", along with these:

(ii) EXCLUSIONS- The term `general service incandescent lamp' does not include the following incandescent lamps:

1.(I) Appliance lamp (e.g. refrigerator or oven light)
2.(II) Black light lamp.
3.(III) Bug lamp.
4.(IV) Colored lamp.
5.(V) Infrared lamp.
6.(VI) Left-hand thread lamp.
7.(VII) Marine lamp.
8.(VIII) Marine signal service lamp.
9.(IX) Mine service lamp.
10.(X) Plant light lamp.
11.(XI) Reflector lamp.
12.(XII) Rough service lamp.
13.(XIII) Shatter-resistant lamp (including a shatter-proof lamp and a shatter-protected lamp).
14.(XIV) Sign service lamp.
15.(XV) Silver bowl lamp.
16.(XVI) Showcase lamp.
17.(XVII) 3-way incandescent lamp.
18.(XVIII) Traffic signal lamp.
19.(XIX) Vibration service lamp.
20.(XX) Globe shaped "G" lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002 with a diameter of 5 inches or more.
21.(XXI) T shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) and that uses not more than 40 watts or has a length of more than 10 inches.
22.(XXII) A B, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G30, S, or M-14 lamp (as defined in ANSI C79.1-2002 and ANSI C78.20-2003) of 40 watts or less.
23.(XXIII) Candelabra incandescent and other lights not having a medium Edison screw base.
 
2011-08-04 01:40:11 PM  

The Homer Tax: Did people stock up on lead paint once the government regulated that? Did people shout "OMG The government is banning PAINT!" When did we get *so stupid* as a nation? Holy Fark.


I am old enough to remember that time easily ... and yes they did. The complaint at the time was that the new paint didn't coat as well as the lead paint. So people went out and stocked up on it, I presume many of the people hoarding lightbulbs are the result of the lead paint hoarding.
 
2011-08-04 01:41:16 PM  

DozeNutz: Its as if the government is creating a black market with the ban. Unintended consequences I guess...


What ban?
 
2011-08-04 01:41:18 PM  

jst3p: If I had a nickle for every time I dropped my 50 year old thermostat...


How about how often you ate tuna?
 
2011-08-04 01:41:50 PM  

Pollexabator: Who wants to trade 100W bulbs for some of my DDT stash?


How about some leaded gas, arsenical pesticides, or friable asbestos?
 
2011-08-04 01:43:01 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


You will have no issues. There are already incandescent bulbs that meet the new requirements. In addition special purpose bulbs used in things such as heat lamps and such do not have to meet the new criteria.
 
2011-08-04 01:43:05 PM  

The Homer Tax: Artcurus: And after the ban? Again, considering that Halogens aren't quite the be all end all.

What ban? There is no ban.

Good lord, get it through your head. There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs. Where are you getting your information from? That person is either uninformed themselves, lying to you, or both.


Just plain common sense and watching bulbs disappear from the store shelves here, (and I don't watch Fox News), again. if the bulb CAN'T REACH a certain efficiency standard, it cannot be sold. period. It. can't. be. sold.
 
2011-08-04 01:43:40 PM  
But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier


What a dumass. How would they afford a chandelier after all the money they will have to spend when they replace 30 cent bulbs with 10 dollar ones?
 
2011-08-04 01:43:49 PM  

jst3p: Tellingthem: I can buy four 100w equivalent bulbs for a $1.

Where? I want some.


I'm in San Diego. I've seen 'em at the Salvation Army, Goodwill, Wal-Mart, most grocery stores (I got mine at Food 4 Less.) SDGE usually does a promotion on them a few times a year. I has been a few weeks so the promotion may be over now. But even then you can usually find them pretty cheap.
 
2011-08-04 01:44:29 PM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.


Uh huh, or you could sell good amps with filtering, which would be better for your customers anyway, since they are sure to have CFLs at home.
 
2011-08-04 01:44:39 PM  

hutchkc:
I am old enough to remember that time easily ... and yes they did. The complaint at the time was that the new paint didn't coat as well as the lead paint. So people went out and stocked up on it, I presume many of the people hoarding lightbulbs are the result of the lead paint hoarding.


Well, then I take solace in the knowledge that we're not getting stupider as a nation, even if it is accompanied by the sad fact that we also haven't gotten any smarter.

Artcurus: If these people can't get this situation resolved?


Then they should continue to use incandescent light bulbs, which are not banned.
 
2011-08-04 01:45:35 PM  

cretinbob: This graphic on the side is utter bullshiat as well

[cache.boston.com image 620x710]

Just bought a new porch light. It uses 4x25w incandescent bulbs.
Problem solved.


It's not bullshiat. They are proven facts.
 
2011-08-04 01:46:08 PM  
www.homedepot.com

If you really like your incandescent light bulbs, try these. Will be around for a while even though they suck energy and heat up like any standard light bulb.

/put two in my garage where a CFL shatter wouldn't be pretty
 
ecl
2011-08-04 01:47:37 PM  

mark12A: When I go out to barns in cold weather, the incandescents come on full brightness and stay bright. CFLs? Notsomuch...

Break a CFL it's a toxic mess. Break an incandescent? Notsomuch..

Unattended CFLs have been documented catching on fire. Incandescents? Notsomuch.

WHAR THE DAYLIGHT CFLs???? All I ever see on the shelf are those "warm" CFLs that give off the sickly yellowish light.

/got my stock


I sell daylight CFL's in every variety so stfu you ignoramus.

WhiteFalconIV: Something I'm curious about:

I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


They sell heaters for reptiles. Derp.
 
2011-08-04 01:47:51 PM  

MrSteve007: Annual lighting energy savings = -$23,841
Annual A/C energy savings = -$14,600

Total Annual energy savings = -$38,441


Yeah, but did you factor in the cost of losing ALL your freedoms? You are now the equivalent of a Brown Shirt marking off what is efficient and what should be sent to the ovens.
 
2011-08-04 01:48:13 PM  
Hah, suck it, freedom hating libs. I don't use light bulbs at all, I light my cave with burning raccoons tied to sticks and dipped in oil.

Need to figure out something to do for the raccoon farm, though. Those rascals get all squirrely in the dark.
 
2011-08-04 01:50:42 PM  
Philips 60-Watt Household Incandescent Light Bulb (4-Pack)
(new window)
Model # 374843

Store SKU # 235482

$1.27 /EA-Each

(E)* means this bulb meets Federal minimum efficiency standards.
 
2011-08-04 01:51:11 PM  

chimp_ninja: It's the same brigade that thinks we should be able to sell leaded gasoline and paint, and let the market decide that too. I'm sure they're hoarding all those delicious, delicious paint chips from pre-1978 housing so they don't run out of their favorite childhood breakfast food.


i595.photobucket.com
 
2011-08-04 01:51:40 PM  

Buffco: TofuTheAlmighty: chimp_ninja: There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

Emphasis supplied. Regardless, right-wing lies are impossible to rebut because right-wingers don't care about facts.

Typical liberal subterfuge. So we can still get incandescents? They're going to continue to be made? No, there's no BAN. But there is a REQUIREMENT that bulbs be more energy efficient.

Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.


There's incandescent bulbs that meet the new efficiency requirements on the shelves at Home Depot right now.
 
2011-08-04 01:52:33 PM  

Artcurus: Just plain common sense and watching bulbs disappear from the store shelves here, (and I don't watch Fox News), again. if the bulb CAN'T REACH a certain efficiency standard, it cannot be sold. period. It. can't. be. sold.


I feel you brother. It's a sad day when they start rounding up white, round members of our family. It's like they're putting a gold star on the ones they deem "less-than", so they can be rounded up and thrown into the gas chambers.

This is basically Obama's night of the long bulbs.

It's just amazing how far Obama will go to destroy us!
 
2011-08-04 01:52:58 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: MrSteve007: Annual lighting energy savings = -$23,841
Annual A/C energy savings = -$14,600

Total Annual energy savings = -$38,441

Yeah, but did you factor in the cost of losing ALL your freedoms? You are now the equivalent of a Brown Shirt marking off what is efficient and what should be sent to the ovens.


You've lost all your freedoms when after the Great Blackout the Energy Gestapo puts you in the back of a car blindfolded, when the next thing you see is your seat amongst an endless array of men pedaling on stationary generators.
 
2011-08-04 01:53:28 PM  

heisenberg: Will be around for a while even though they suck energy and heat up like any standard light bulb.


Philips actually makes a "Halogena Energy Saver" version of that bulb line that *does* meet the new federal efficiency standards.
 
2011-08-04 01:53:45 PM  

ecl: They sell heaters for reptiles. Derp.


Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs? That also provide 10 years worth of lighting for the reptile cage? The cheapest heaters (for our cage size) start around $70, and don't last forever. Meanwhile, a single bulb lasts about 3 months, and $20 of bulbs will last the lifespan of our dragons.
 
2011-08-04 01:53:58 PM  

The Homer Tax: hutchkc:
I am old enough to remember that time easily ... and yes they did. The complaint at the time was that the new paint didn't coat as well as the lead paint. So people went out and stocked up on it, I presume many of the people hoarding lightbulbs are the result of the lead paint hoarding.

Well, then I take solace in the knowledge that we're not getting stupider as a nation, even if it is accompanied by the sad fact that we also haven't gotten any smarter.

Artcurus: If these people can't get this situation resolved?

Then they should continue to use incandescent light bulbs, which are not banned.


And either pay more for them, or try to get the actual problem fixed.

Also continue to replace consumer electronics much faster than necessary because of the same problem.

New light bulb efficiency standards are not their problem. shiatty power is.
 
2011-08-04 01:54:09 PM  

royone: jst3p: If I had a nickle for every time I dropped my 50 year old thermostat...

How about how often you ate tuna?


Now that is a valid point.
 
2011-08-04 01:55:38 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: ecl: They sell heaters for reptiles. Derp.

Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs? That also provide 10 years worth of lighting for the reptile cage? The cheapest heaters (for our cage size) start around $70, and don't last forever. Meanwhile, a single bulb lasts about 3 months, and $20 of bulbs will last the lifespan of our dragons.


Owning a pet comes with costs and responsibility if you can't afford them then sell them.
 
2011-08-04 01:56:09 PM  

aug3: Philips 60-Watt Household Incandescent Light Bulb (4-Pack)
(new window)
Model # 374843

Store SKU # 235482

$1.27 /EA-Each

(E)* means this bulb meets Federal minimum efficiency standards.


Well sure, but what am I going to buy when this law banning all incandescent bulbs goes into effect?
 
2011-08-04 01:57:37 PM  

jst3p: If I had a nickle for every time I dropped my 50 year old thermostat...

/not an anti CFL nutter
//but you make no valid point


Actually digital thermostats didn't become the norm until about 10 years ago. And it's still pretty common to come into a home or business and find a mercury thermostat. I renovated my house (built in the 70's) a few years back. In hindsight, I didn't realize by throwing away the thermostats, I was tossing out Hg the equivilant to 10,000 CFL lamps.

www.spiritalchemy.com
 
2011-08-04 01:57:57 PM  

jst3p: WhiteFalconIV: ecl: They sell heaters for reptiles. Derp.

Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs? That also provide 10 years worth of lighting for the reptile cage? The cheapest heaters (for our cage size) start around $70, and don't last forever. Meanwhile, a single bulb lasts about 3 months, and $20 of bulbs will last the lifespan of our dragons.

Owning a pet comes with costs and responsibility if you can't afford them then sell them.


www.wisconsindellschinesebuffets.com
 
2011-08-04 01:58:19 PM  
There's no hate like lightbulb hate.

Seriously, look at yourselves. Get a grip.
 
2011-08-04 01:58:29 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs? That also provide 10 years worth of lighting for the reptile cage? The cheapest heaters (for our cage size) start around $70, and don't last forever. Meanwhile, a single bulb lasts about 3 months, and $20 of bulbs will last the lifespan of our dragons.


Sometimes things happen that make our hobbies slightly more expensive. It's a hobby, if a slight increase in the cost of something is going to break your bank, you might want to look into a new pastime.
 
2011-08-04 01:58:43 PM  

aug3: Philips 60-Watt Household Incandescent Light Bulb (4-Pack)
(new window)
Model # 374843

Store SKU # 235482

$1.27 /EA-Each

(E)* means this bulb meets Federal minimum efficiency standards.


Yeah, but those were developed by the FREE MARKET because a Czar told them to. Don't you fascist brown-shirts know the only things worth using are developed by the FREE MARKET without ANY intervention.
 
2011-08-04 01:58:48 PM  

chaositect: Lighting retrofit these days to a nice T-5 will usually see less than a 3 year payback


better yet, go with a T8-25W and you wont even need a new fixture...
 
2011-08-04 01:58:53 PM  

heisenberg: Cubansaltyballs: MrSteve007: Annual lighting energy savings = -$23,841
Annual A/C energy savings = -$14,600

Total Annual energy savings = -$38,441

Yeah, but did you factor in the cost of losing ALL your freedoms? You are now the equivalent of a Brown Shirt marking off what is efficient and what should be sent to the ovens.

You've lost all your freedoms when after the Great Blackout the Energy Gestapo puts you in the back of a car blindfolded, when the next thing you see is your seat amongst an endless array of men pedaling on stationary generators.


And your family will come looking for you with tears in their eyes. The officer will barely suppress a smirk as he says, "Thursday night spin class."

/it is a dark future ahead of us
//but the Whore of Babylon is an amazing Zumba instructor
 
2011-08-04 01:59:46 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs?


Yes.
 
2011-08-04 01:59:58 PM  

heisenberg: You've lost all your freedoms when after the Great Blackout the Energy Gestapo puts you in the back of a car blindfolded, when the next thing you see is your seat amongst an endless array of men pedaling on stationary generators.


You sound like a CZAR!!!
 
2011-08-04 02:00:53 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Halogens put out a horrific amount of heat though. You are not allowed to put them into many fixtures due to the heat.


Hi. I'd like to introduce you to energy conservation.

Energy in = Energy out (light) + Energy out (heat)

The halogen incandescents draw less power than the old late-1800's design incandescents. So, if you replace an old incandescent with a halogen incandescent bulb that puts out the same amount of light, they will produce less heat. Ta da. Physics.

Artcurus: 3. I've seen so many numbers being thrown around that truly smell of rectal extraction. How is it that when residential lighting makes up about 6% of the total draw on the grid, that this switchover is truly going to make a difference?


Hi. I'd like to introduce you to the fact that you have your head up your ass.

Did you think that you were going to change your light bulbs, and your electricity usage was going to drop 95%? Did you ever read the labels on your refrigerator, your HVAC hardware, or your washing machine?

Let's take your 6% at face value. Full CFL adoption would cut that by at least 2/3, or 4% of the total draw on the grid. If you can't see the value in reducing electrical power by 4% via a trivial change to residential lighting technology, get your head examined.

Now, let's account for the fact that lighting is actually 8.8% of household electricity, according to the Energy Information Administration. Do the math, and you save enough electricity to retire 90 standard-scale power plants. If you don't think that's a big deal, I'll propose that we just relocate the 90 coal plants into a ring around your house.
 
2011-08-04 02:01:08 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: heisenberg: You've lost all your freedoms when after the Great Blackout the Energy Gestapo puts you in the back of a car blindfolded, when the next thing you see is your seat amongst an endless array of men pedaling on stationary generators.

You sound like a CZAR!!!


No, really, I prefer tsar. Or at least someday I will.
 
2011-08-04 02:02:21 PM  

The Homer Tax: Well sure, but what am I going to buy when this law banning all incandescent bulbs goes into effect?


I know!! These lights will be totally illegal!!!

We can become BulbLeggers and start making truckloads of cash like Capone or Joe Kennedy... which will only be worth it because we've lost ALL our freedoms.

And it'll be easier to avoid getting on the trains if we're rich.
 
2011-08-04 02:02:27 PM  

raanne: chaositect: Lighting retrofit these days to a nice T-5 will usually see less than a 3 year payback

better yet, go with a T8-25W and you wont even need a new fixture...


I personally recommend the T-X.

\The T-1000 will work in a pinch though
 
2011-08-04 02:04:29 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?


News to dumb bastard: Devices exist which produce heat, yet are not light bulbs. They are called 'heaters', and they convert electricity into heat. My understanding is that these devices are commercially available.
 
2011-08-04 02:04:38 PM  

chimp_ninja: Energy in = Energy out (light) + Energy out (heat)

The halogen incandescents draw less power than the old late-1800's design incandescents. So, if you replace an old incandescent with a halogen incandescent bulb that puts out the same amount of light, they will produce less heat. Ta da. Physics.


Maybe with your homo-elitist physics you figure out this equation:

Light Bulbs = Freedom
No Light Bulbs = gas chambers for the old
 
2011-08-04 02:04:59 PM  

Buffco: The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.

I imagined you drooling and wearing a diaper when you typed that.


That's not your imagination. That's called a "mirror." It's not a window into your own mind.
 
2011-08-04 02:07:10 PM  

chimp_ninja: News to dumb bastard: Devices exist which produce heat, yet are not light bulbs. They are called 'heaters', and they convert electricity into heat. My understanding is that these devices are commercially available.


I've had enough of your elitist attitude.

We went to the moon! We don't need to know stupid atheist homo facts like heat is basically the waste product of an inefficient device. All we need to know is that you want it, so we must destroy it. We must destroy it because if we don't, we'll be thrown head-first into one of your ovens.
 
2011-08-04 02:07:11 PM  

The Homer Tax: There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs. If an incandescent light bulb is energy efficient, it can be sold. Many are already. There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs


Exactly. There would be no "ban" at all, but the companies that were manufacturing old style bulbs would have to retool to continue manufacturing bulbs that meet the new standard. The government could have given tax incentives to assist in this effort. Meanwhile, the marketers of CFLs lobbied for the ban. Almost no CFLs are manufactured in the US. The process is very polluting and energy-hungry. So most are made in China. The marketers can get them for a couple of bucks each, but sell them for $12 to $25. Profit. That's the only thing this is about.

And CFLs aren't as reliable as they are touted to be. I use a couple in places such as my basement, the stairwell down too it, etc. I've had several that wouldn't burn right out of the box or go dim in just a couple of months. I don't use standard incandescent bulbs in my table lamps. I use either decorative bulbs (40 W is plenty of light for a table lamp), which are not going to be banned.
 
2011-08-04 02:10:48 PM  

chimp_ninja: WhiteFalconIV: I keep reptiles which require a certain amount of heat. I accomplish this, currently, with a regular ol' 100 watt bulb. A 4-pack of cheapo walmart brand bulbs provides heat and light for the cage. CFL/other energy efficient bulbs are good about the light, but don't provide any heat. Are reptile keepers just gonna be SOL after the first of the year?

News to dumb bastard: Devices exist which produce heat, yet are not light bulbs. They are called 'heaters', and they convert electricity into heat. My understanding is that these devices are commercially available.


But, but....They cost like $10 more. Where am I going to get that kind of money for my strange exotic reptiles?
 
2011-08-04 02:11:02 PM  
I'm sure someone's said this already, but the early CFLs SUCKED. BIG TIME.

They took forever to "warm up", meaning that you would flip the switch, then 20 minutes later, you might get something approximating the actual wattage that the bulb claimed...but it wasn't like an actual light bulb, it was a orange-ish imitation of a light bulb. I think this is where all the CFL hate comes from. Newer ones are much better.
 
2011-08-04 02:14:16 PM  

JackieRabbit: Exactly. There would be no "ban" at all, but the companies that were manufacturing old style bulbs would have to retool to continue manufacturing bulbs that meet the new standard.


Hey, they are banned. The only thing we have left to choose from are those evil, horrible stupid goddamn soddomite bulbs. Just look at a picture of them that I got from the Fox News website... to any sane person, it's clear they're just goose-stepping their way into our homes so they can take all our wealth and send us to the death chamber!

i461.photobucket.com
 
2011-08-04 02:16:32 PM  
Light bulbs? Serisously? How much time do you have to sit around and contemplate light bulbs? Get a hobby already. Play with your kids. Complaining about light bulbs is just telling the world that you are a farking asshole with nothing worthwhile to do with your time.
 
2011-08-04 02:16:38 PM  
The best thing about the new bulbs is that they contain mercury . Yet t-stats that contain mercury have been banned ,
 
2011-08-04 02:17:07 PM  

JackieRabbit: It takes more energy to manufacture a CFL than it saves in use.


No, it doesn't. (new window) warning PDF and actual fu*king science.
 
2011-08-04 02:17:55 PM  

royone: WhiteFalconIV: Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs?

Yes.


A heating pad cannot be used for pets. The temp regulators fluctuate wildly and can easily get hot enough to burn the animals skin. They are also not meant for the runtime that is required. Usually they will overheat and burn themselves out or actually start a fire. More modern ones have shutoffs after a certain period of time for this reason. I don't know about lizards, but most animals will also chew on the cord and/or pee on the pad. So it will likely short out. Like babies many small animals are unable to move or get away from the heat which can injure or kill them.

So animal heating pads/lamps do cost more because they have to be a lot more temperature sensitive than for humans and the extra conditions that animals put on the device. However since they are built to a higher standard they usually last a lot longer.

I think hoarding bulbs is silly as he would be able to use the bulbs that meet the standards or buy a specialty bulb. If he doesn't want to spend the money for a pet bulb, then he would still be able to get the 100W heavy duty bulbs they sell for garage door openers as they don't have to meet the standard.
 
2011-08-04 02:18:24 PM  
When you see the other photos of freedom, doesn't this just look sexy, awesome, wealthy, well-hung, and just all round amazing and perfect?

i461.photobucket.com
 
2011-08-04 02:18:43 PM  
I live in an old house. It has 43 light bulb sockets in it. When I first moved in I was going through at least 4-6 incandescent bulbs a month. Mostly due to them popping when I would switch on a light. It drove me crazy. Head into a room to do something. Turn on the light switch. *Poof* Stop what I was doing. Go hunt down a bulb. Find out the damn glass is still hot from the last time it was on. Grab a sock. Replace the hot bulb. Throw away the old one. Go back into the room and see if I could remember WTF I was doing. And heaven forbid its a bulb that's on the ceiling. It was a pain in the ass and got to be very annoying. Even the long lasting incandescent had me changing them frequently.

I started swapping out the CFLs about two years ago. It was when I saw the natural light ones in store. I got all the bulbs changed out over the course of about 6 months with the exception of a few ceiling fan ones that are specially shaped. I had one blow on me. Oddly enough in a recessed bathroom fixture, like all the others people have reported problems with. I have one that sits in a lamp on my desk that hasn't been shut off since it was installed. Other than that one bulb I have not had to change a single one in all that time.

I'm a lazy person. Not having to interrupt what I am doing and cutting down on the time I spend on having to change light bulbs is a big thing for me. I would also like to say I've saved a lot of money on electricity but I can't really tell with the way that they screw with our rates around here.

/CSB
 
2011-08-04 02:19:22 PM  

RY28: The best thing about the new bulbs is that they contain mercury . Yet t-stats that contain mercury have been banned ,


OMG I know!

The only acceptable place for mercury is in drinking water that comes from fracking!!! When will these libs learn!!!
 
2011-08-04 02:19:34 PM  

JackieRabbit: Meanwhile, the marketers of CFLs lobbied for the ban.


What ban? There is no ban.

You keep saying incorrect things over and over again. It doesn't make them magically correct, it just makes you look silly.
 
2011-08-04 02:21:24 PM  

bmwericus: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.

Uh huh, or you could sell good amps with filtering, which would be better for your customers anyway, since they are sure to have CFLs at home.


I'm pretty sure it's bad wiring coupled with the CFLs - not the amps. Last time I checked, a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or an Orange TH30 aren't considered bad amps, nor are any of the others... and they ALL do it.
 
2011-08-04 02:21:30 PM  
I switched from all CFLs to LEDs a few months ago (except for one light in the kitchen that's a T8 socket fluorescent). The LEDs work great in recessed cans as do the over-sink bathroom globes. I haven't found an LED bulb that works well for desk and table lamps as they are mostly directional, but I can live with some shadowing.

The color balance is not as good as light from incandescents and the lumen output is not quite as advertised, but they are dimmable and the savings (over our CFL-only bills) are such that the LEDs will pay for themselves within 30 months.

/Not a bunny-hugger; just a cheap bast@rd
//Hg poisoning has made me a fiscal conservative
 
2011-08-04 02:21:54 PM  

MrSteve007: The amount of mercury in a CFL is 4-5 millgrams - which is roughly the same amount that's in a couple servings of tuna.


The problem with CFL's is that the mercury is in dust form so it can easily be inhaled. Just have to be a little careful with cleanup. In the three years since I've made the switch-over I've yet to break one. And my electric bill is noticeably lower.
 
2011-08-04 02:22:24 PM  

JackieRabbit: And CFLs aren't as reliable as they are touted to be. I use a couple in places such as my basement, the stairwell down too it, etc. I've had several that wouldn't burn right out of the box or go dim in just a couple of months


It's actually pretty interesting to read the testing methods and standards that have to be met by 'energy star' qualified bulbs. Link (new window)

They take 10 identical lamps, place 5 upright and 5 upside down. It's they're rated for 8,000 hours, they're allowed up to a 50% failure rate by 8,000 hours. At 40% of rated life (3,200 hours) only one of 10 can fail, and still be accepted. If 2 of the 10 fail, they need a failure report from the manufacturer that describes in detail why it happened. If 3 of the 10 fail, they don't qualify.

They test 1/3rd of the qualified models every year, and re-qualify them every time a change in the line is made.

Seems like a pretty good standard, once you read it.
 
2011-08-04 02:23:15 PM  

Sangi: I live in an old house. It has 43 light bulb sockets in it. When I first moved in I was going through at least 4-6 incandescent bulbs a month. Mostly due to them popping when I would switch on a light. It drove me crazy. Head into a room to do something. Turn on the light switch. *Poof* Stop what I was doing. Go hunt down a bulb. Find out the damn glass is still hot from the last time it was on. Grab a sock. Replace the hot bulb. Throw away the old one. Go back into the room and see if I could remember WTF I was doing. And heaven forbid its a bulb that's on the ceiling. It was a pain in the ass and got to be very annoying. Even the long lasting incandescent had me changing them frequently.

I started swapping out the CFLs about two years ago. It was when I saw the natural light ones in store. I got all the bulbs changed out over the course of about 6 months with the exception of a few ceiling fan ones that are specially shaped. I had one blow on me. Oddly enough in a recessed bathroom fixture, like all the others people have reported problems with. I have one that sits in a lamp on my desk that hasn't been shut off since it was installed. Other than that one bulb I have not had to change a single one in all that time.

I'm a lazy person. Not having to interrupt what I am doing and cutting down on the time I spend on having to change light bulbs is a big thing for me. I would also like to say I've saved a lot of money on electricity but I can't really tell with the way that they screw with our rates around here.

/CSB


Seriously I put a premium on things that help me be lazy. I change maybe 2 bulbs out a year now. And i can say that my bill went down about 10 bucks a month after the changeover.
 
2011-08-04 02:25:47 PM  
If you like the color of a traditional incandescent bulb and refuse to go with a CFL or LED bulb, just switch to a compact halogen. I use these bulbs in my Tiffany lamps.

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2011-08-04 02:26:36 PM  

Alphax: I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.


No we just like bulbs that come on at full brightness right away, in important places like stairwells and entrances.

AccuJack: You can easily compensate for the fact that the CFL bulbs don't get instantly bright when you first turn them on - just develop the habit of turning on a light a few minutes before you spend any length of time in the room it lights, and don't turn the lights off if you're only leaving there for a few minutes.

Easy.


See above.

/have CFLs in other places
 
2011-08-04 02:27:22 PM  

Dinjiin: If you like the color of a traditional incandescent bulb and refuse to go with a CFL or LED bulb, just switch to a compact halogen. I use these bulbs in my Tiffany lamps.

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


Newt? Is that you?
 
2011-08-04 02:28:00 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: RY28: The best thing about the new bulbs is that they contain mercury . Yet t-stats that contain mercury have been banned ,

OMG I know!

The only acceptable place for mercury is in drinking water that comes from fracking!!! When will these libs learn!!!


You forgot about the mercury (and radioactive isotopes) ever-present in burnt coal particulates.
I don't, that's why I moved west of the coal-fired power plant in my town.

Why do you hate amurika?
 
2011-08-04 02:29:10 PM  

hutchkc: A heating pad cannot be used for pets.


Wrong.

The temp regulators fluctuate wildly and can easily get hot enough to burn the animals skin. They are also not meant for the runtime that is required.

And yet I ran them continuously for years to give my pythons a place that they seemed to enjoy very much and never got burned. PROTIP: Don't put the pad in the cage. Put it under the cage.

Usually they will overheat and burn themselves out or actually start a fire.

PROTIP: Get a UL-listed heating pad. The low setting is typically sufficient, and since it's got two higher settings, it's not too hot for the pad. And stop being a fact-inventing retard.

/"usually"? Give me a break.
 
2011-08-04 02:30:47 PM  

The Homer Tax: What ban? There is no ban.


These guys have been told by folks like Limbaugh that the efficiency requirements are tantamount to a ban. Or heck, they just outright lie and call it a ban.

You'd have better luck convincing these folks that Elvis was an alien from Alpha Centuri Prime than convincing them that Rush was lying.
 
2011-08-04 02:31:49 PM  

heisenberg: You forgot about the mercury (and radioactive isotopes) ever-present in burnt coal particulates.
I don't, that's why I moved west of the coal-fired power plant in my town.

Why do you hate amurika?


No, you just hate Jesus.

Coal was put here by Jesus and it is our right and duty to plunder it to our heart's content. We can ravage the earth, destroy mountains, whatever is necessary to get our coal.

It's sort of like when you're buddies buy you a hooker for Easter. It's your duty to destroy that ass...
 
2011-08-04 02:32:54 PM  

Charlie Freak: bmwericus: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.

Uh huh, or you could sell good amps with filtering, which would be better for your customers anyway, since they are sure to have CFLs at home.

I'm pretty sure it's bad wiring coupled with the CFLs - not the amps. Last time I checked, a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or an Orange TH30 aren't considered bad amps, nor are any of the others... and they ALL do it.


Hm, have you tried taking an affected amp to say, your house, also equipped with CFLs to see if you eliminate the problem?

WRT your store, how about trying a Brute force filter on the amps AC Supply? They cost only about $20 or so.

I have a high end amateur radio receiver and the CFLs are quiet, but the switching supply in the LEDs can be noisy
 
2011-08-04 02:38:34 PM  
But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier, or take forever to get bright?

i566.photobucket.com
 
2011-08-04 02:39:32 PM  

chimp_ninja: Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Halogens put out a horrific amount of heat though. You are not allowed to put them into many fixtures due to the heat.

Hi. I'd like to introduce you to energy conservation.

Energy in = Energy out (light) + Energy out (heat)

The halogen incandescents draw less power than the old late-1800's design incandescents. So, if you replace an old incandescent with a halogen incandescent bulb that puts out the same amount of light, they will produce less heat. Ta da. Physics.

Artcurus: 3. I've seen so many numbers being thrown around that truly smell of rectal extraction. How is it that when residential lighting makes up about 6% of the total draw on the grid, that this switchover is truly going to make a difference?

Hi. I'd like to introduce you to the fact that you have your head up your ass.

Did you think that you were going to change your light bulbs, and your electricity usage was going to drop 95%? Did you ever read the labels on your refrigerator, your HVAC hardware, or your washing machine?

Let's take your 6% at face value. Full CFL adoption would cut that by at least 2/3, or 4% of the total draw on the grid. If you can't see the value in reducing electrical power by 4% via a trivial change to residential lighting technology, get your head examined.

Now, let's account for the fact that lighting is actually 8.8% of household electricity, according to the Energy Information Administration. Do the math, and you save enough electricity to retire 90 standard-scale power plants. If you don't think that's a big deal, I'll propose that we just relocate the 90 coal plants into a ring around your house.


Chimp Ninja-

Two words. OFF PEAK hours and this heat wave is an excellent example. (107-110 daily here) Right now, it's all systems go, all available sources, natural gas, wind, hydro (Mansfield Dam here) to keep up with the demand. We set record high usage Tuesday.

Now, what do you think happens during the off peak hours? Demand goes down. Wind and other inefficient/more expensive systems are taken offline because they are not needed. This cycle will repeat itself tomorrow, and probably through Sun as this heat continues.

So, where does that 8% factor in when the lighting load is actually handled by the base during the evening?



On Heat, this says otherwise

http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/articles/halogen/halogen.htm

So does this

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/watts-heat-lights-lamp-heat-output.html
 
2011-08-04 02:43:07 PM  
Meh, some people like a blackbody spectrum I guess. Why the outrage / ridicule?
 
2011-08-04 02:43:35 PM  

Frosted Flake: ew months ago (except for one light in the kitchen that's a T8 socket fluorescent). The LEDs work great in recessed cans as do the over-si


That's our plan, when the CFLs go we will replace with LED. I suspect some should be popping soon as ours are over 10 years old. My only complaint so far with the LEDs are that they make them like spotlights or try to output all light like a regular bulb. Most of out lights are on the ceiling laying on their side. I would like a LED bulb what was half round with all the light coming from one side. No sense trying to light the place directly above the bulb and I can just twist it tighter or more losely so the light points down.
 
2011-08-04 02:44:09 PM  
What kind of cretin hoards a bulb which uses 5x the power and lasts 1/5th the amount of time as an equivalent CFL?
 
2011-08-04 02:46:09 PM  
Imagine for a moment that you're the type of person who gives a shiat about light bulbs beyond the light part.
 
2011-08-04 02:51:10 PM  

drxym: What kind of cretin hoards a bulb which uses 5x the power and lasts 1/5th the amount of time as an equivalent CFL?


Real Americans that love freedom, unregulated markets, abstinence, rampant teen pregnancy, free choice, anti-abortion, and will sacrifice everything you have to the job creators. Without them, my wonderful job at Jiffy Lube wouldn't pay enough for me to have three yard sofas.

Speaking of lube, that reminds me I have to call some job creators later.
 
2011-08-04 02:55:23 PM  

hutchkc: Frosted Flake: ew months ago (except for one light in the kitchen that's a T8 socket fluorescent). The LEDs work great in recessed cans as do the over-si

That's our plan, when the CFLs go we will replace with LED. I suspect some should be popping soon as ours are over 10 years old. My only complaint so far with the LEDs are that they make them like spotlights or try to output all light like a regular bulb. Most of out lights are on the ceiling laying on their side. I would like a LED bulb what was half round with all the light coming from one side. No sense trying to light the place directly above the bulb and I can just twist it tighter or more losely so the light points down.


I'm trying one of these (new window) for lamp applications where a radial distribution is more desirable, but the cost needs to come down more before I'll buy a passel of them.
 
2011-08-04 02:55:51 PM  
I've replaced every bulb in my home with either LEDs or compact flourescents. Since I'm a painter, I need a good spectrum bulb, so I bought some Ottlights for my studio. I know, I'm such an evil Librull. How dare I save money on my electricity bill!
 
2011-08-04 02:56:35 PM  
I was a big supporter of CFLs. I was buying them in 2001 and had replaced nearly all of the lights in my apartment with them. They worked fine, I didn't notice any humming; the color was a little different but not so different that I had any objections.

In short, not one bulb that sees any real use has lasted 5 years. Most died in 2-3 years.

I'm going to let my spare CFLs run out and switch to high efficiency halogens.

-------
TL;DR:
Bulbs sold at Sam's Club as bathroom globes in/around 2002 died about every 3-4 months. Hallway lighting lasted about a year.

A later batch in early 2004 all died before early 2006; these were living room and bedroom lights that had little to no short cycling-on time was probably 5-6 hours straight a day.

The outdoor light fared the best despite the Las Vegas heat and the 40 degree winters.

The tubes in the kitchen were only replaced after 4 years because I felt like seeing how different color temperatures looked. They were there when we moved in and outlasted nearly all the CFLs I brought in.

in March 2006, I moved and swapped every bulb possible with new CFLs. That is all lights everywhere:
Lamps, fans, closet lights, pantry, patio, hot water heater room all got standard form factor 100 watt replacements;
kitchen got the spotlights;
dining room got a dimmable spotlight;
bathroom got little globe style bulbs.

The living room fan lights died one-by-one in the first 18 months despite minimal usage-occasional 2-3 hour stretches.

The bathroom lights all failed within 2 years-I understand bathrooms are hot and humid, but I made sure the vent an was on and would most of the time turn my AC to fan mode when I was showering to circulate the air out of the bathroom. There wasn't a lot of humidity present in the bathroom for any period of time.

These lights were on 4-6 hours a day sometimes because of where my bathroom is in my apt and how they lit the bedroom and other areas.

I replaced the bathroom lights with CFL standard color (warm) and daylight (cool) bulbs from GE in one stretch in 2008. I have 6 sockets and did even odd for cool/warm. All 3 small daylight bulbs and 2 of the warm ones failed over time. I replaced the small cool bulbs with the large ones I bought in 2008 and they're running fine now.

After 5 years, 4 months, I've gone through all 8 spotlight bulbs I bought for the the kitchen. They face down and a 30ish angle towards the sink, stove, etc. They had 4-6 hour straight runtimes when I was home because of their location and how they lit the place.

Three-way CFL lamp lights in the living room died around 2 years. Those were $13/ea! I've replaced them with 3-way GE reveal incandscents that are alive 3 1/3 years later.

Bulbs that are still good after 5 years are-closets and non-living room fans, patio, hot water heater, and dining room dimmable. All but the dining room dimmable see very little usage. I've not done any economic analysis about how much power I might have saved vs. the cost of the bulbs, but if the only bulbs that lived are the ones that don't get used, it doesn't seem worth it.
 
2011-08-04 02:56:37 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: three yard sofas


That, right there, was the Diet Coke Up The Nose moment.

Thank you, sir.
 
2011-08-04 03:10:24 PM  
CFLs are getting better and better IMHO and even if the color is a bit off, it's worth it to both save money and consume less energy.

However, you can't be surprised by this. On average, Americans are fearful of change, terrified of anything related to the gubmint in any way, and strive to produce as much waste as humanly possible.
 
2011-08-04 03:11:26 PM  

royone: hutchkc: A heating pad cannot be used for pets.

Wrong.

The temp regulators fluctuate wildly and can easily get hot enough to burn the animals skin. They are also not meant for the runtime that is required.

And yet I ran them continuously for years to give my pythons a place that they seemed to enjoy very much and never got burned. PROTIP: Don't put the pad in the cage. Put it under the cage.

Usually they will overheat and burn themselves out or actually start a fire.

PROTIP: Get a UL-listed heating pad. The low setting is typically sufficient, and since it's got two higher settings, it's not too hot for the pad. And stop being a fact-inventing retard.

/"usually"? Give me a break.


I am well aware some people put heating pads below a reptile tank. In that case the heat would not be a problem for the animal. Many people have done and still do that. It has worked out well for some and not so much others. You are making the assumption that a person would know to put it outside the tank. Having a friend in animal rescue I can tell tell you people are not as smart as you believe.

Heating pads are not meant for that kind of full-time use and I am glad you and others have not had a problem, others have. The products are not designed for that kind of use and they do fail. There have been reports of it just quit working, overheating and breaking the tank, and fires.

As far as the UL or CL, that should go without saying for any product in your house. If it will ease your butthurt I will retract 'usually' as I based my comment upon information related to me personally by people that have tried it. I disagree recommending a method to someone that others have tried without informing them of the possible risks. If you or anyone else so chooses to proceed then be my guest.
 
2011-08-04 03:11:46 PM  
Was at the store the other day when I ran into this. Bought up a bunch of lightbulbs and the cashier asked if it was because the government was trying to take away our "got-damn" lightbulbs. I told her "No, I just don't have any more lightbulbs, so I'm buying more"

/csb
 
2011-08-04 03:11:52 PM  
We actually went to CFLs way back last decade when Enron gamed the CA electrical grid, I've been using them for a long time now. They last just fine, at least the sexing generation ones do.

In our vacation place, I'm experimenting with a number of LED based lamps including some really cheap Costco floodlights that are LED, and some more high end replacement bulbs. So far, I like the LEDs except for their RF noisy switching power supplies and their price...although if they last per claims, they will turn out to be a really good deal.
 
2011-08-04 03:17:36 PM  

Space_Poet: MrSteve007: The amount of mercury in a CFL is 4-5 millgrams - which is roughly the same amount that's in a couple servings of tuna.

The problem with CFL's is that the mercury is in dust form so it can easily be inhaled. Just have to be a little careful with cleanup. In the three years since I've made the switch-over I've yet to break one. And my electric bill is noticeably lower.


Yes, but again even the 4mg in a bulb, if you concentrated it in a pile and snorted it, is ~12 cans of albacore tuna. Assuming you aren't breaking 16 bulbs per year like some of the people in this thread apparently do, I think we can avoid calling the hazmat team.

Also, more modern CFLs can contain closer to 1 mg of mercury, or three cans of tuna to the more alarmist members in the thread.
 
2011-08-04 03:18:24 PM  

bmwericus: Charlie Freak: bmwericus: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.

Uh huh, or you could sell good amps with filtering, which would be better for your customers anyway, since they are sure to have CFLs at home.

I'm pretty sure it's bad wiring coupled with the CFLs - not the amps. Last time I checked, a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or an Orange TH30 aren't considered bad amps, nor are any of the others... and they ALL do it.

Hm, have you tried taking an affected amp to say, your house, also equipped with CFLs to see if you eliminate the problem?

WRT your store, how about trying a Brute force filter on the amps AC Supply? They cost only about $20 or so.

I have a high end amateur radio receiver and the CFLs are quiet, but the switching supply in the LEDs can be noisy


Actually, we can take them to other spots in the store and the 60hz goes away. Unfortunately, those spots are not on the guitar part of the sales floor. Like I said, it will also go away when we turn the lights off. We definitely did not have these problems until we switched to CFLs. I may have to try that filter.
 
2011-08-04 03:19:59 PM  

chimp_ninja: PsiChi: Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away.

How many farking bulbs do you break in your life? I think I'm on "zero". Why do the anti-CFL nutjobs love indoor jai alai so much? What the hell is your mattress made of that you break bulbs on it? Do you have a light bulb in bed with you and somehow end up sitting on.... oh.


I'd like to introduce PsiChi, who is really scared of CFLs breaking against his mattreess for some reason, to:

bmwericus: We actually went to CFLs way back last decade when Enron gamed the CA electrical grid, I've been using them for a long time now. They last just fine, at least the sexing generation ones do.

 
2011-08-04 03:25:00 PM  

Buffco: impaler: I have something like a 250 Watt equivalent CFL bulb in my living that gives off a warm glow and turns on instantly.

The horror.

The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.

I imagined you drooling and wearing a diaper when you typed that.

What, pray tell, would the market have decided? (If using your scenario, the sheep were NOT told this about CFLs) How would the market have reached it's conclusion?


How about the facts, such as this little gem:

For every $1 you spend on a CFL or LED bulb, you will save anywhere from $2 to $10 in electricity by the time you have to replace it.

But, nah, people don't want to save money.
 
2011-08-04 03:25:09 PM  
As someone who gets migraines from old florescents, I'm getting a kick...especially since there's no actual freakin' ban.

/Totally support a forced change, though.
//Also would support forcing the idiots who get the big brick lights to buy normal ones that don't fry my brain cells, because ow.
 
2011-08-04 03:25:10 PM  

SFSailor: Cubansaltyballs: three yard sofas

That, right there, was the Diet Coke Up The Nose moment. Thank you, sir.


I originally read it as "three-yard sofas", but I now agree that "three yard-sofas" is correct.
 
2011-08-04 03:28:30 PM  

PsiChi: mark12A: Break a CFL it's a toxic mess. Break an incandescent? Notsomuch..

Unattended CFLs have been documented catching on fire. Incandescents? Notsomuch.

/got my stock

This. Any of you who actually buy CFLs need to go research what to do if one breaks on your floor. Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away. That's how poisonous this shiat is. Remember, kids, mercury is a neurotoxin!

CFL disposal: Link (new window)


banella.com

Meanwhile at PsiChi's house...

/can i come over?
 
2011-08-04 03:28:51 PM  

hutchkc: You are making the assumption that a person would know to put it outside the tank.


It is not much of a secret. Anyone who has the slightest interest in doing things right would find out that fact. Some people are not interested in doing things right, and they will screw things up no matter what kind of heat they choose to use. A lot of animals are burned by heat lamps, as well

There have been reports of it just quit working, overheating and breaking the tank, and fires.

Which are also possible with heat lamps.

I disagree recommending a method to someone that others have tried without informing them of the possible risks.

Then you are unaware of the possible risks of using the 100W garage door opener bulbs you recommended? They're pretty much the same as any other heat source.

If it will ease your butthurt

Too late for that, my friend. Far too late. My butt thanks you for your concern, but you should have thought of that risk before you said "A heating pad cannot be used for pets." Nothing you can say is going to ease my butthurt. Although perhaps a heating pad...
 
2011-08-04 03:29:39 PM  

chimp_ninja: chimp_ninja: PsiChi: Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away.

How many farking bulbs do you break in your life? I think I'm on "zero". Why do the anti-CFL nutjobs love indoor jai alai so much? What the hell is your mattress made of that you break bulbs on it? Do you have a light bulb in bed with you and somehow end up sitting on.... oh.




Chimp Ninja-

1. Children
2. Pets
 
2011-08-04 03:30:32 PM  

PsiChick: As someone who gets migraines from old florescents, I'm getting a kick...especially since there's no actual freakin' ban.


I mentioned this above regarding the guy with the weirdly unfiltered amps, but while the old CFLs used a 60Hz magnetic ballast, the newer ones use a 20,000Hz electronic ballast.

I could believe that you could be sensitive to a 60Hz flicker even if you can't perceive it, but it's very doubtful that your eyes and brain could detect a 20,000 Hz flicker. You might not be sensitive to the newer bulbs. More detail here.
 
2011-08-04 03:31:31 PM  

Jument: On average, Americans are fearful of change


t1.gstatic.com
 
2011-08-04 03:31:44 PM  

hutchkc: royone: hutchkc: A heating pad cannot be used for pets.


Are you seriously still biatching about reptile heating options? Tell you what, if you shut the fark up about it I'll send you the $5 for a bulb. Do we have a deal?
 
2011-08-04 03:32:00 PM  

Pollexabator: Who wants to trade 100W bulbs for some of my DDT stash?


I have some stockpiled R-12 refrigerant I bought over 20 years ago while it was still cheap. a number of unopened 30lb cylinders. I have id stored with the Diazonin and the Chlordane...and Jarts...all N.O.S. stuff.
 
2011-08-04 03:33:52 PM  

Artcurus: chimp_ninja: chimp_ninja: PsiChi: Heaven forbid it should break on your mattress - you'll have to throw it away.

How many farking bulbs do you break in your life? I think I'm on "zero". Why do the anti-CFL nutjobs love indoor jai alai so much? What the hell is your mattress made of that you break bulbs on it? Do you have a light bulb in bed with you and somehow end up sitting on.... oh.

Chimp Ninja-

1. Children
2. Pets


I am apparently the smartest child ever, because I managed to break zero light bulbs. Given my remarkable skills at not breaking CFLs as an adult, I've probably saved us from exposures that are nearly as large as consuming ones of cans of tuna.

Between that and figuring out how to heat a reptile cage without using a light bulb, my awesomeness is clearly beyond question.
 
2011-08-04 03:34:03 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: 1) Carefully monitor the conservative poutrage machine and predict the next thing the morans will be hoarding.

3) profit!


I've always wondered why some entrepreneurial businessmen haven't set up shop selling various western nations flags in stores in the middle east. They're always burning them.
 
2011-08-04 03:34:20 PM  

Artcurus: On Heat, this says otherwise

http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/articles/halogen/halogen.htm


I know you've struggled with reading your entire life, but I just want you to know how proud of you I am. It's a real accomplishment to get as far as you did, even if you didn't actually understand what it was saying.
 
2011-08-04 03:36:34 PM  
A list of idiots that are hoarding incandescent lightbulbs would be worth a mint to to telemarketers and the like.
 
2011-08-04 03:36:47 PM  

Frizbone: Pollexabator: Who wants to trade 100W bulbs for some of my DDT stash?

I have some stockpiled R-12 refrigerant I bought over 20 years ago while it was still cheap. a number of unopened 30lb cylinders. I have id stored with the Diazonin and the Chlordane...and Jarts...all N.O.S. stuff.


Make sure to paint your storage room with lead paint. It blocks the mind-control rays, which is why The Man banned it in the first place.

I'm old school, though. I'm making a killing on these buggies my family has been hoarding for generations.
 
2011-08-04 03:37:14 PM  

chimp_ninja: Assuming you aren't breaking 16 bulbs per year


You know what they say when you 'assume.'

/on my 17th mattress this year.
 
2011-08-04 03:40:21 PM  

impaler: chimp_ninja: Assuming you aren't breaking 16 bulbs per year

You know what they say when you 'assume.'

/on my 17th mattress this year.


Does health insurance cover it?

And by 'it', I mean that the anti-CFL crowd is exclusively composed of people who get incandescent light bulbs lodged in their rectum repeatedly, as proven above.

Just wanted to be clear.
 
2011-08-04 03:40:48 PM  

impaler: chimp_ninja: Assuming you aren't breaking 16 bulbs per year

You know what they say when you 'assume.'

/on my 17th mattress this year.


I just skip all this pussyfooting around and filled an old waterbed with mercury.
 
2011-08-04 03:46:51 PM  

impaler: chimp_ninja: It's hard to read the giant "DIMMABLE" portion of the packaging, too. Maybe you need to ask for help when buying something as complicated as a light bulb. The price is often greater than the biggest of all numbers: potato.

These same people cry about forced standardized food labeling as 'business killing federal regulation.' You see, food companies that decide to label food on their own should be able to sell more if that's what people want.


Dude it sounds like you've been drinking too much of the fluoride in the water. The government puts it in there so they can use mind control on you.
 
2011-08-04 03:47:35 PM  

drxym: What kind of cretin hoards a bulb which uses 5x the power and lasts 1/5th the amount of time as an equivalent CFL?


Hypochondriac interior decorators?

Militant easybake aficionados?

Competitive bulb-changing enthusiasts?

Confused vacuum-tube purists?

Those with a crippling, irrational fear of soft-serve ice cream?
 
2011-08-04 03:47:37 PM  

DozeNutz: Its as if the government is creating a black market with the ban. Unintended consequences I guess...


The funny thing is that the ban was on the manufacture of the things...

So the freepers are buying Chinese and Mexican bulbs. Good job, dumbasses!

/stocked up on CFLs and LEDs
//suck it
///don't biatch about your power bill, or I'll give you a lecture on personal responsibility, conservitards
 
2011-08-04 03:54:44 PM  

chimp_ninja:
I'm old school, though. I'm making a killing on these buggies my family has been hoarding for generations.


Hey my family has these whips lying around for years. Do you think you might be interested?
 
2011-08-04 03:56:12 PM  

drxym: What kind of cretin hoards a bulb which uses 5x the power and lasts 1/5th the amount of time as an equivalent CFL?


The kind of cretin that wants enough bulbs to last 2 years, after which time he expects LED technology to be sufficiently better and cheaper than CFLs today, so he can skip the whole CFL phase and go right to the superior solution. That would be me by the way.

Sure beats changing to the inferior technology available now.

/2 1 dozen boxes of R40's ought to do it, or so I'm betting
//and no, CFLs are NOT the same light spectrum, do not dim well, fit poorly in bulb sockets, etc.
 
2011-08-04 03:58:10 PM  

Priapetic: Sure beats changing to the inferior technology available now.


Why wouldn't you just buy incandescent bulbs that meet the new energy requirements as you need them?
 
2011-08-04 04:00:58 PM  
THE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB THAT IS ENERGY-EFFICIENT IS NOT THE TRUE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB!
 
2011-08-04 04:03:18 PM  
There is just a laundry list of great reasons for old people to drop dead and no real down side.
 
2011-08-04 04:05:05 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: THE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB THAT IS ENERGY-EFFICIENT IS NOT THE TRUE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB!


Wher bulb certificet?
whar?
 
2011-08-04 04:08:28 PM  
I'll be happy when the labeling actually matches what you're buying. You pick up a package of CFL's that says they are equivalent to a 60W bulb and compare the lumens to a package of incandescents and the CFL lumens value is always lower.

I'm looking forward to LED's becoming more mainstream. I think they lack some of the problems I've had with CFL's.
 
2011-08-04 04:08:51 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: THE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB THAT IS ENERGY-EFFICIENT IS NOT THE TRUE INCANDESCENT LIGHTBULB!


This is why I light my house exclusively with graphite blackbody radiators heated to 5000 degrees farenheit by specialized ovens with tiny openings to emit light. Sure, it's not very efficient, but I'm not a big fan of the crippled, uneven spectrum approximation of these so-called "incandescents."
 
2011-08-04 04:13:18 PM  

Floobergasted: I'll be happy when the labeling actually matches what you're buying. You pick up a package of CFL's that says they are equivalent to a 60W bulb and compare the lumens to a package of incandescents and the CFL lumens value is always lower.


8/10! You've managed to take a statement about accurate brightness labelling on CFLs and somehow make it into a complaint about label inaccuracy.
 
2011-08-04 04:13:49 PM  
I hate it when people are allowed to have free will.
 
2011-08-04 04:19:18 PM  

The Homer Tax: Priapetic: Sure beats changing to the inferior technology available now.

Why wouldn't you just buy incandescent bulbs that meet the new energy requirements as you need them?


My biggest concern is the light quality - I'm concerned about piecemeal switching technologies, unless I change them all at once. It looks weird and drives me nuts to have different hues coming out of each recessed light. The new incandescents are a different (improved?) technology from current incandescents, so I expect there will be some degree of shift in the hue.

I'd like to go CFL but all mine are on dimmers, and despite that "dimmable" label on the box, their "dimmability" still sucks. I'll have to switch over about 60, so I'd prefer better LEDs at $10 / a pop ($600) rather than today's at $40 a pop ($2,400).
 
2011-08-04 04:20:18 PM  

GORDON: I hate it when people are allowed to have free will.


That's why I support the government ban on whale movies.
 
2011-08-04 04:25:12 PM  

Priapetic: I'd like to go CFL but all mine are on dimmers, and despite that "dimmable" label on the box, their "dimmability" still sucks. I'll have to switch over about 60, so I'd prefer better LEDs at $10 / a pop ($600) rather than today's at $40 a pop ($2,400).


You have 60 bulbs on dimmers in your home? Do you live in a movie theater? Are you The Ladies' Man?

We had eight. I bought 4 dimmables for one switch, and they work fine, although the knob is basically 50% "off", and the other 50% "dimmable, but moving it one hair changes the intensity a bunch". For the other one, we just admitted we never used the existing (ugly) dimmer and it was easier just to swap to a standard light switch that matched everything else better.
 
2011-08-04 04:30:24 PM  

chimp_ninja: I originally read it as "three-yard sofas", but I now agree that "three yard-sofas" is correct.


Indeed, you are not alone; I made the same mistake initially. A well-placed hyphen would have made the LOLs instant, rather than requiring a bit of chewing... but maybe that chewing added to the LOLs? Now we'll never know.

One thing's for sure, though: It is -much- funnier if read under an LED bulb whilst sitting in a reptile tank.

(BTW, it should be noted that you, sir, are also contributing significantly to the LOLs and may have earned yourself a fancy color, just for "ones cans of tuna" alone.)

Frizbone: and Jarts


Ooo! Dibs!

But I do really wish dimmable, 150+W-replacement LEDs were < $10... inspired by this thread, I did a bit of digging around... $40-75/bulb? Farknothankyoukindly, not today. Sigh.
 
2011-08-04 04:32:33 PM  

Buffco: TofuTheAlmighty: chimp_ninja: There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

There's no ban on 'incandescents'.

Emphasis supplied. Regardless, right-wing lies are impossible to rebut because right-wingers don't care about facts.

Typical liberal subterfuge. So we can still get incandescents? They're going to continue to be made? No, there's no BAN. But there is a REQUIREMENT that bulbs be more energy efficient.

Incandescents can't meet the requirement. Factories making them have to, well, stop making them. Ta-da.


Um, yes they can. Multiple companies make Halogen (a type of incadescent) which meet the (weak) energy standards. This is no different than requiring appliances to meet certain energy efficiency standards or cars to meet MPG standards (both which have existed for decades).
 
2011-08-04 04:40:34 PM  
Some of us live out in the country. The power grid in the country sucks. Voltage varies wildly, frequency gets screwy, spikes and brown outs are common, and all of those things seem to make CFLs shiat the bed. Until my local power company can get me more reliable power, I'll be stocking up on the bulbs that last longer in my house. I wish I could use CFLs, but they don't last as long as an el cheapo incandescent using the only power source available to me.
 
2011-08-04 04:47:57 PM  

raygundan: Floobergasted: I'll be happy when the labeling actually matches what you're buying. You pick up a package of CFL's that says they are equivalent to a 60W bulb and compare the lumens to a package of incandescents and the CFL lumens value is always lower.

8/10! You've managed to take a statement about accurate brightness labelling on CFLs and somehow make it into a complaint about label inaccuracy.


I'm at a loss trying to make sense of your statement. What they market as the equivalent of a 60W incandescent bulb doesn't generate the same lumens as a 60W incandescent bulb. If I'm used to the output from a 60W bulb in my lamp, I'd like to replace it with something similar.
 
2011-08-04 04:53:56 PM  

nutkick_42: Some of us live out in the country. The power grid in the country sucks. Voltage varies wildly, frequency gets screwy, spikes and brown outs are common, and all of those things seem to make CFLs shiat the bed. Until my local power company can get me more reliable power, I'll be stocking up on the bulbs that last longer in my house. I wish I could use CFLs, but they don't last as long as an el cheapo incandescent using the only power source available to me.


From what I've found, it's the over-voltage that causes the most issue with CFL's and LED bulbs (along with sensitive electronics). The best thing you can do is get one of these (new window) to protect everything in your house.

My folks did it a few years back, and haven't had a problem since. They decided to go that route after a surge blew out the electronics in their kitchen's double oven.
 
2011-08-04 04:56:24 PM  

MrSteve007: My folks did it a few years back, and haven't had a problem since. They decided to go that route after a surge blew out the electronics in their kitchen's double oven.


Double Oven? They sound wealthy. Must be school teachers.
 
2011-08-04 04:58:06 PM  

BurnShrike: See, that's the problem with the government. They're trying to encourage people to use solar and wind power. They need to start banning them instead and everyone would jump on board and buy up all the wind turbines they could.


Newsletter, subscription, etc.
 
2011-08-04 04:58:26 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: heisenberg: You forgot about the mercury (and radioactive isotopes) ever-present in burnt coal particulates.
I don't, that's why I moved west of the coal-fired power plant in my town.

Why do you hate amurika?

No, you just hate Jesus.

Coal was put here by Jesus and it is our right and duty to plunder it to our heart's content. We can ravage the earth, destroy mountains, whatever is necessary to get our coal.

It's sort of like when you're buddies buy you a hooker for Easter. It's your duty to destroy that ass...


I rose again on the third day according to the scriptures?
 
2011-08-04 04:58:52 PM  
Also, here's a very interesting video (new window)from the DOE on the 10-million dollar price winner of their LED bulb competition and how they were tested. Philips won the competition this week.
 
2011-08-04 04:59:07 PM  

chimp_ninja: Priapetic: I'd like to go CFL but all mine are on dimmers, and despite that "dimmable" label on the box, their "dimmability" still sucks. I'll have to switch over about 60, so I'd prefer better LEDs at $10 / a pop ($600) rather than today's at $40 a pop ($2,400).

You have 60 bulbs on dimmers in your home? Do you live in a movie theater? Are you The Ladies' Man?

We had eight. I bought 4 dimmables for one switch, and they work fine, although the knob is basically 50% "off", and the other 50% "dimmable, but moving it one hair changes the intensity a bunch". For the other one, we just admitted we never used the existing (ugly) dimmer and it was easier just to swap to a standard light switch that matched everything else better.


Well, you'd have to ask my wife if I'm a ladies man, but I kinda doubt it.

We have between 6 and 10 recessed lights in each room, depending on room size. So, no lamps or any other light sources in the rooms. Since they're all on a common circuit, the only way to moderate light levels is by dimmers, so each room has a dimmer switch or 2 for all the recessed lights. But as a result, you need the dimmers, and need them to work over the full range. Current CFLs just don't cut it. I don't think my circumstance is all that unique.

I have some "daylight" Alzo CFLs in the basement and they work pretty good, although the light's not that "pleasant".
 
2011-08-04 05:03:32 PM  

raygundan: impaler: chimp_ninja: Assuming you aren't breaking 16 bulbs per year

You know what they say when you 'assume.'

/on my 17th mattress this year.

I just skip all this pussyfooting around and filled an old waterbed with mercury.


That sounds awesome.
 
2011-08-04 05:04:33 PM  

chimp_ninja: You have 60 bulbs on dimmers in your home? Do you live in a movie theater? Are you The Ladies' Man?


That's not that crazy. Not typical of course, but not crazy. I have a moderately large house (~3,500 living square feet) and every room has ceiling cans with BR30 bulbs and off the top of my head I can count almost 60 of those fixtures (and that doesn't include some halogen fixtures in the bathrooms, the fluorescent tube lights in the garage, etc.). All of the ceiling lights are on dimmable switches and connected to a home automation system. Extensive use of dimmers can be a big energy saver.
 
2011-08-04 05:10:14 PM  
MrSteve007
I love that art store in Maui, thanks for bringing me back to Lahaina for a second
 
2011-08-04 05:10:14 PM  
www.deviantart.com
 
2011-08-04 05:16:35 PM  

Floobergasted: raygundan: Floobergasted: I'll be happy when the labeling actually matches what you're buying. You pick up a package of CFL's that says they are equivalent to a 60W bulb and compare the lumens to a package of incandescents and the CFL lumens value is always lower.

8/10! You've managed to take a statement about accurate brightness labelling on CFLs and somehow make it into a complaint about label inaccuracy.

I'm at a loss trying to make sense of your statement. What they market as the equivalent of a 60W incandescent bulb doesn't generate the same lumens as a 60W incandescent bulb. If I'm used to the output from a 60W bulb in my lamp, I'd like to replace it with something similar.


So... the package says exactly what the light output is in lumens, yes? I don't think there's a way for them to be any more precisely accurate in their labelling.

The "60W Incandescent Brightness" target is a lousy one at best, and I'm not sure why you're fixated on it. A quick look at the output of some 60W incandescents shows outputs anywhere from 420 lumens to 960 lumens in just one page of random 60W incandescent search results.

So what's your complaint, exactly? If the CFLs fall *somewhere* in this enormous range of brightness, it's fair to say they're equivalent to 60W incandescents. And look, they are.

So, if I had to take a second stab at summing up your bizarre complaint, it's something like this:

"60W-equivalent CFLs, while accurately labelled with their light output in lumens, are not exactly the same brightness as the single brand of incandescents I previously used and therefore I consider their labelling to be inaccurate despite the brightness falling within the range of brightness produced by other 60W incandescents."
 
2011-08-04 05:20:55 PM  

natas6.0: MrSteve007
I love that art store in Maui, thanks for bringing me back to Lahaina for a second


Ah, close - but on the other side of the island. My client's project is in Hana.
 
2011-08-04 05:22:56 PM  

WhiteFalconIV: ecl: They sell heaters for reptiles. Derp.

Do they sell heaters for reptiles that cost less than say, a 10-year supply of .50c light bulbs? That also provide 10 years worth of lighting for the reptile cage? The cheapest heaters (for our cage size) start around $70, and don't last forever. Meanwhile, a single bulb lasts about 3 months, and $20 of bulbs will last the lifespan of our dragons.


Way to many variables for me to answer with certainty, but it seems from my quick look around the internets that there are cage-heating options that will be just as cost effective because they're still (relatively) cheap, longer-lasting, and better for the reptile (UVA and UVB rays). But I don't know, you're the reptile nerd so you get to flex your reptile nerdery over my cursory knowledge.

Alternatively, there are still incandescents out there (until 2020) that generate heat and meet the new standards, thought they likely do not generate as much heat.
 
2011-08-04 05:25:37 PM  

TheBigJerk: Alternatively, there are still incandescents out there (until 2020) that generate heat and meet the new standards, thought they likely do not generate as much heat.


Heat-specific bulbs could be as much as three percent more efficient, since they're not leaking that 3% into wasted light production.

/probably not worth the effort
 
2011-08-04 05:25:38 PM  
Basically, my "hoarding" is a strategy resulting from a recognition that the timing of phase out of incandescents and maturity of the replacement technology results in a time gap during which inferior alternatives (CFLs) should be avoided if possible. So I am.
 
2011-08-04 05:45:32 PM  

SFSailor: Cubansaltyballs: three yard sofas

That, right there, was the Diet Coke Up The Nose moment.

Thank you, sir.


No, no. It's porch sofas. Don't want them getting all wet and moldy, y'all.

/live in NC
//have some neighbors with that many
 
2011-08-04 05:47:40 PM  

MrSteve007: The best thing you can do is get one of these (new window) to protect everything in your house.


Interesting. All credit to you for the suggestion, but if anyone else is interested, there's more info (and lower price) at Amazon. (new window) Might have to look into that, for a lot of reasons.

Priapetic: I don't think my circumstance is all that unique.


Your situation is not all that unique. Can lights are cheap and easy solutions for builders. It's amazing to me how loud the "OMG! CFLs ARE JUST THE SAME!" cry is... and I, for one, am sick of it. People who believe this must not have cans, or have never tried the horrid CFL replacement floods in them. The light is -not- the same, the shadowing can be horrible, and the "dimming" doesn't. I'm just continuing to hope that good LEDs come down into the realm of reality. Biting off even 10-20 of them at $50-75 each is a *big* ask.
 
2011-08-04 05:48:27 PM  

SFSailor: chimp_ninja: I originally read it as "three-yard sofas", but I now agree that "three yard-sofas" is correct.

Indeed, you are not alone; I made the same mistake initially. A well-placed hyphen would have made the LOLs instant, rather than requiring a bit of chewing... but maybe that chewing added to the LOLs? Now we'll never know.

One thing's for sure, though: It is -much- funnier if read under an LED bulb whilst sitting in a reptile tank.

(BTW, it should be noted that you, sir, are also contributing significantly to the LOLs and may have earned yourself a fancy color, just for "ones cans of tuna" alone.)

Frizbone: and Jarts

Ooo! Dibs!

But I do really wish dimmable, 150+W-replacement LEDs were < $10... inspired by this thread, I did a bit of digging around... $40-75/bulb? Farknothankyoukindly, not today. Sigh.


There is a company called Switch Lighting that has been saying they will be able to significantly undercut the competition. Their offerings should be hitting the shelves sometime before Xmas. So maybe they will be cheap. Obviously I have no idea how well they will be, but if they walk the walk and not junk it will be good times.
 
2011-08-04 05:49:44 PM  

Gleeman: No, no. It's porch sofas. Don't want them getting all wet and moldy, y'all.


Well, duh... you keep the -nice- ones on the porch.

But then ya' move 'em out into the yard when you find nicer ones on the curb somewhere! I mean, don't you want a nice place to sit next to your toilet-planter?
 
2011-08-04 05:51:09 PM  
I went out and bought the highest-powered CFLs I could find locally and put them in the kitchen and bathroom. Days later, I was back at the store buying 100W incandescents because I couldn't see shiat in my kitchen OR bathroom.

The CFLs are useful in rooms I don't require good lighting in, though.
 
2011-08-04 05:52:12 PM  

hutchkc: Switch Lighting


Hmm. Off to Google. Then set some reminders to keep an eye out. Then, if possible, maybe invest. If they can come in with 150w replacements at < $20/each, I could imagine them *flying* off the shelves at the ol' LowesDepotMart.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for the tip...
 
2011-08-04 06:08:54 PM  

SFSailor: hutchkc: Switch Lighting

Hmm. Off to Google. Then set some reminders to keep an eye out. Then, if possible, maybe invest. If they can come in with 150w replacements at < $20/each, I could imagine them *flying* off the shelves at the ol' LowesDepotMart.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for the tip...


I don't keep up with the bulb news but last I heard Sylvania was planning releasing a 100W soon at the price point of the 75W they have now. I would presume that the 75W would drop to the 60W price and so on, but that's just speculation on my part. I figure if Switch can undercut them by having a $50 100W they can clean up, which would hopefully put a 60W in the $15-20 range.

I remain hopeful, but they may be a startup talking big to drum up interest .... looking at you Coda.
 
2011-08-04 06:17:16 PM  

SFSailor: Hmm. Off to Google. Then set some reminders to keep an eye out. Then, if possible, maybe invest. If they can come in with 150w replacements at < $20/each, I could imagine them *flying* off the shelves at the ol' LowesDepotMart.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for the tip...


Be very, very careful when it comes to stuff like this. I've been buying a lot of LED lights for testing (I spec them for a couple major hotel brands). The *only* ones I've found that I could trust are from Philips, GE, Sylvania and Cree. I've had good results with 'off' brands that specifically use Cree LED's in their products, like BetaLED for exterior and parking lot lighting.

Lots of times, especially the no-name & cheap Chinese lamps look amazing at first. Bright and with good performance - the problem is that they either cheap out on the heat sinks, and/or over-voltage their LE diodes to get that bright. This will cause a massive drop in output very early on in life. It may last 3,000-5,000 hours at full brightness, then suddenly drop output by 60% for a few thousand hours and drop to only 20% of original lumen maintenance for the rest of the 50,000 hour life.

I've had that happen over and over with those lamps. I've only had one 'no-name' bulb last, and it was a group of 12v MR16 bulbs. I've gone through at least a dozen other off brands, with the same result on each - and trust me, that wasn't a cheap lesson to learn.
 
2011-08-04 07:31:14 PM  

chimp_ninja: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: But what good is a thriving planet, the North Andover mother asks, if her kids are forced to live in a home lighted by bulbs that are energy efficient but ruin the look of the dining room chandelier

I wonder if this dipshiat knows that you can buy CFLs with a variety of spectral outputs, including (my preference) the ones that mimic daylight. On two occasions, a guest at our house commented on the daylight-colored lighting. I turn on the track lighting next to the skylight, and you get a nice side-by-side of natural sunlight vs. the daylight CFLs. They're indistinguishable.

Oh, and they use 1/4 of the electricity of incandescents, and come with a 5-year warranty.

impaler: The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.

It's the same brigade that thinks we should be able to sell leaded gasoline and paint, and let the market decide that too. I'm sure they're hoarding all those delicious, delicious paint chips from pre-1978 housing so they don't run out of their favorite childhood breakfast food.

The market decides what's best for the marketers, not society as a whole.

Alphax: I guess they like bulbs that help heat the house in winter, but make it harder to cool in the summer.

And even when they heat your house in the summer, they tend to be located near the ceiling, often recessed a little, which keeps them fully out of the room's airflow. It's approximately the dumbest possible way to heat a room. Buy CFLs and a space heater, and you'll come out ahead in both comfort and electricity use. losing a ton of money in electricity while dying of cancer due to mercury exposure.


Those "cheap" Space heaters cost a -lot- more than 5 incandescents, and the talking point of the herps is CFLs contain mercury, a rather bad carcinogen and neural inhibitor. Also, they do not last as long as claimed, whereas halogens and LED bulbs do. Lastly, Not a lot of people put in recessed lighting (I have stage lighting, so halogens in the winter are great).

/walk right past CFLs each time.
//burned 3 types of CFLs in a manner of 6 months.
///had one group halogens for 3-4 years before burnout.
////currently using LEDs.
 
2011-08-04 08:03:33 PM  

MrSteve007: I've had really good luck with their LR6-DR1000 (new window), for 6' inch can replacements. However, don't use them in home theatre locations, as they only dim to 20%, then cut out. They're on the higher end of the price scale @ ~$120 a fixture.

The CR6 (new window) is much less bright (only 650 lumen), but works awesome in low level dimming situations (I use it in my living room), and is quite a bit cheaper. If you look around, they can be found for ~$45 at Home Depot.


I appreciate the tip, but I am not really interested in replacing cans and doing drywall. I really need a screw in bulb replacement or I will stick with my hoarded 100-120 watt incandescent. bulbs.
 
2011-08-04 08:10:37 PM  
I see lots of comments from people still living with their parents.
 
2011-08-04 08:15:14 PM  

SFSailor: Your situation is not all that unique. Can lights are cheap and easy solutions for builders. It's amazing to me how loud the "OMG! CFLs ARE JUST THE SAME!" cry is... and I, for one, am sick of it. People who believe this must not have cans, or have never tried the horrid CFL replacement floods in them. The light is -not- the same, the shadowing can be horrible, and the "dimming" doesn't. I'm just continuing to hope that good LEDs come down into the realm of reality. Biting off even 10-20 of them at $50-75 each is a *big* ask.


There are reflector options in the new incandescent bulbs. Sylvania makes a br30 in their "supersaver" line. Recently there have been a lot more of these coming out. I've seem similar bulbs advertised from Westinghouse, and I've seen brands I never heard of before like this bulb I just now randomly searched up.
 
2011-08-04 08:16:17 PM  

paygun: zedster: ya, sounds like someone screwed up the grounding somewhere

Yep, no ground. Or tube amps designed in 1948 plus no ground.


Grounding doesn't matter with high noise production circuits like most cheap CFLs have. Playing with an oscilloscope, you'll find that any household current is rife with noise from everything in your house and on down the street (vacuums and other cheap AC motors tend to be the worst). Also the issue they might be encountering is not the radiated noise from the bulb circuitry, but rather what it kicks back onto the neutral.

He might have some luck actually plugging those tube amps into a true sine wave generating power conditioner / UPS used for computer servers. Unfortunately, a few of those produce an audible hum from the transformer even though they put out cleaner AC.

As for the light profile for CFLs, my best solution has been to domino a high white point plant CFL with a warm white CFL. Seems to get the most neutral white and wide spectrum from CFLs I can find and better than most LEDs.

Frankly, I don't see why I haven't been able to find a LED with a few red, green and blue leds in the mix with a white majority to allow white point / color customization from a slider(s).

Making LEDs and CFLs more mainstream could use some help from fixture makers as well. Keep the Edison socket, but come up with a small variety of industry standard sizes for larger / different shaped assemblies needed for effective LED and CFL bulbs. Right now it's a lot of square peg / round hole issues with finding an energy saving bulb that works well in a fixture.
 
2011-08-04 08:21:59 PM  

Thrag: SFSailor: Your situation is not all that unique. Can lights are cheap and easy solutions for builders. It's amazing to me how loud the "OMG! CFLs ARE JUST THE SAME!" cry is... and I, for one, am sick of it. People who believe this must not have cans, or have never tried the horrid CFL replacement floods in them. The light is -not- the same, the shadowing can be horrible, and the "dimming" doesn't. I'm just continuing to hope that good LEDs come down into the realm of reality. Biting off even 10-20 of them at $50-75 each is a *big* ask.

There are reflector options in the new incandescent bulbs. Sylvania makes a br30 in their "supersaver" line. Recently there have been a lot more of these coming out. I've seem similar bulbs advertised from Westinghouse, and I've seen brands I never heard of before like this bulb I just now randomly searched up.


If they are Halogen, there's a strong possibility they run too hot for cans.
 
2011-08-04 08:29:44 PM  

Artcurus: If they are Halogen, there's a strong possibility they run too hot for cans.


I've seen people assume that before in these threads but I haven't seen evidence that this is the case. The new type of halogen bulbs that have been coming out as replacements for old incandescent do not seem to run very hot at all compared to a regular bulb. The Sylvania bulb for example says under applications that it can be used anywhere standard incandescent bulbs can be used and BR30 bulbs in general are pretty much made for ceiling cans.
 
2011-08-04 08:30:21 PM  

Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.


A: Tube amps are shiat. Really, they're absolute shiat. "Warm" sound is distortion, plain and simple.

B: Since your customers are going to have CFLs, you should keep the lights on when they're trying the tube amps, just so they can hear how incredibly shiatty the tube amps are in real world conditions - that is, even shiattier than they are in ideal conditions.

C: You're an idiot for not trying LEDs. But so as to preserve truth in advertising, you should keep at least one CFL handy to demonstrate how shiatty tube amps can be.
 
2011-08-04 08:30:41 PM  
Halogen fires


http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/s1965485.htm

http://www.diylife.com/2010/01/20/halogen-bulbs-10-ways-to-avoid-a-home-fire/

From the Australian Government

http://www.nswfb.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=70


http://www.indice.com.au/tag/halogen-downlights-house-fires/


http://www.insulation4attics.com/162/

Report from the UK

http://www.johnwatsonelectrical.co.uk/Halogen%20Down%20Lights%20Fire%20Risk.pdf
 
2011-08-04 08:35:41 PM  

Thrag: Artcurus: If they are Halogen, there's a strong possibility they run too hot for cans.

I've seen people assume that before in these threads but I haven't seen evidence that this is the case. The new type of halogen bulbs that have been coming out as replacements for old incandescent do not seem to run very hot at all compared to a regular bulb. The Sylvania bulb for example says under applications that it can be used anywhere standard incandescent bulbs can be used and BR30 bulbs in general are pretty much made for ceiling cans.

Citation:

Applications:

HALOGEN SuperSaver ® light bulbs have a variety of uses including accent lighting for home décor and directional lighting for track and recessed fixtures.

Anywhere standard incandescent lamps are used
 
2011-08-04 08:41:10 PM  

DarkVader: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.

A: Tube amps are shiat. Really, they're absolute shiat. "Warm" sound is distortion, plain and simple.

B: Since your customers are going to have CFLs, you should keep the lights on when they're trying the tube amps, just so they can hear how incredibly shiatty the tube amps are in real world conditions - that is, even shiattier than they are in ideal conditions.

C: You're an idiot for not trying LEDs. But so as to preserve truth in advertising, you should keep at least one CFL handy to demonstrate how shiatty tube amps can be.


And I suppose you think that 600 watt Best Buy special Home Theater in a Box is the epitome of high fidelity. (rolls eyes)

18 watt + 18 watt Packard Bell tube (6BQ5) stereo amp with the correctly matched speakers shakes the farking windows. Don't believe me, try it. I damn near got the cops called on me with this system.
 
2011-08-04 08:44:55 PM  

Artcurus: Halogen fires


http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/s1965485.htm

http://www.diylife.com/2010/01/20/halogen-bulbs-10-ways-to-avoid-a-home-fire/

From the Australian Government

http://www.nswfb.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=70


http://www.indice.com.au/tag/halogen-downlights-house-fires/


http://www.insulation4attics.com/162/

Report from the UK

http://www.johnwatsonelectrical.co.uk/Halogen%20Down%20Lights%20Fire%20Risk.pdf


I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with these links. Yes, some halogen bulbs give off a lot of heat and should not be used in certain types of fixtures. I am not debating that notion at all. However the new types of halogen bulbs that have been coming out to replace standard bulbs do not run super hot. Your articles appear to be talking about other types of halogens. There are lots of bulbs that use halogen gas. There are types of halogens that are considered dangerous like those "torchiere" upward facing lights that have the long thin bulbs that get hot enough to ignite the dust that builds up over time. Not all bulbs that happen to use halogen are like that. There are CFLs too that specifically are not to use used in downward facing fixtures. You just need to get the right bulb for the right job and there are indeed BR30 bulbs that use incandescent technology and halogen gas that meet the new standards that can be used in recessed fixtures.
 
2011-08-04 08:48:02 PM  

RexTalionis: What's with the love for incandescent bulbs, anyway? They put out a lot of heat in the summer, and they kill your electric bill.


In my case, they work properly with a ceiling fan remote control. LEDs are too damn expensive, and they don't have a 100 watt equivalent yet. Even when they do, the heat sink will screw up the light throw. Halogen is an option, but they're awfully expensive, and I'm not sure how well they'd handle the vibration. Rough service bulbs tend to have a warmer color temperature, and don't seem to get any more life in than fan than a regular 100 watt. I figure about 100 bulbs will be a lifetime supply, and I'll probably be buying them.

I'm at about 50% with CFLs, I'm not a big fan of turning off the lights whenever I leave a room, and with CFLs I don't have to think about it. Color temperature is pretty damn good with the newer ones, though the claimed life isn't anywhere close to accurate. I'm hoping there will be some advances with LEDs, the current A lamp replacements are not really workable. They could probably go to fan-cooled light bulbs, but that would shorten the life, make them noisy, and kill part of the energy savings. The floods are looking pretty good, though.

I'm not at a higher percentage because of chandeliers, but the ban isn't going to affect mini-can bases, at least not yet, so I'm still ok there. I don't think those will ever be replaceable with anything but incandescents, because they look so much better with unfrosted bulbs.

What kills my electric bill is heating, though. And I'm not going to turn the temp down below 68. And I'm not going to set it above 72, either - but cooling isn't nearly as expensive as heating.
 
2011-08-04 08:51:35 PM  

Artcurus: Halogen fires


Looking at your links they seem to concentrate on halogen downlights, which use a completely different type of halogen bulb and is much more compact and does get hot. I have metal outdoor fixtures that use the same types of bulbs as many halogen downlight fixtures (GU10s). They are not similar to the new A and BR bulb replacements that have been coming out in recent years. Halogen downlights are a type of fixture, not a type of bulb, that should specifically not be used when there is flamable insulation above the fixture. They often get retrofit into old homes in violation of proper procedures and warnings a cause old insulation to heat up and catch fire.
 
2011-08-04 08:57:29 PM  

SpectroBoy: appreciate the tip, but I am not really interested in replacing cans and doing drywall. I really need a screw in bulb replacement or I will stick with my hoarded 100-120 watt incandescent. bulbs.


Shouldn't require any drywall or anything you can't do with a screwdriver. All you gotta do is take out the trim ring, loosen up the edison base, & install the lamp. No can replacement needed, and it takes about 5 minutes. Easy Peasy. (new window)
 
2011-08-04 08:58:21 PM  

Thrag: Artcurus: Halogen fires

Looking at your links they seem to concentrate on halogen downlights, which use a completely different type of halogen bulb and is much more compact and does get hot. I have metal outdoor fixtures that use the same types of bulbs as many halogen downlight fixtures (GU10s). They are not similar to the new A and BR bulb replacements that have been coming out in recent years. Halogen downlights are a type of fixture, not a type of bulb, that should specifically not be used when there is flamable insulation above the fixture. They often get retrofit into old homes in violation of proper procedures and warnings a cause old insulation to heat up and catch fire.


GU 10's are different, the fixture that hold these are designed for these bulbs specifically. You just stated what the real problem is. BR bulbs being put in recessed can fixtures that are too close to insulation or badly installed.
 
2011-08-04 09:04:41 PM  
I know I am late to the party...

I used to have CFL's in my house. I had 6 bulbs in my basement and they worked well enough. One night I turned them off while at the base of the stairs instead of the top, and thank goodness I did.

One of the bulbs' ballast was red. It was melting. I unscrewed it and put in on the concrete. It proceeded to melt.

When a regular bulb dies, the filiment pops and it is done. When a CFL dies, it could melt down and burn. I no longer allow them in my home.

I am a proud part of that 20%. I am a liberal. I should love these dang things. But no, self preservation prevents me from having them in my house.
 
2011-08-04 09:41:14 PM  

The Homer Tax: Artcurus: And after the ban? Again, considering that Halogens aren't quite the be all end all.

What ban? There is no ban.

Good lord, get it through your head. There is no ban on incandescent light bulbs. Where are you getting your information from? That person is either uninformed themselves, lying to you, or both.


Yes, there most certainly IS a ban. January 1 of next year, production or import of standard 100 watt incandescent bulbs will be banned.

Just because not every type of incandescent light bulb will be banned DOES NOT mean that there isn't a ban. Because you really need to either get it through your head that there IS a ban, or stop lying about it.
 
2011-08-04 10:05:46 PM  

MrSteve007: Shouldn't require any drywall or anything you can't do with a screwdriver. All you gotta do is take out the trim ring, loosen up the edison base, & install the lamp. No can replacement needed, and it takes about 5 minutes. Easy Peasy. (new window)


Those are really cool, but at 575 lumens they are about 1/2 what I need. My current bulbs are 120 watt 1500 lumens. I could probably go down as low as 1000 lumens minimum.
 
2011-08-04 11:01:00 PM  
So far I have yet to meet a cfl that does not suck. All the hippie dipshiats talk about them now having "warm tones" and being dimmable. Even the boxes now say they are "dimmable". Bullshiat. They are not dimmable in any meaningful way. If you think of the 75w incandescent as having a brightness range of 0 to 100 in brightness the best of the "dimmable" cfls cover maybe the 90 to 100 part of the range, below that they just shut off. I can live with the color but the lack of dimmability, the fact that they dont fit a good percentage of my fixtures, cost an arm and a leg, and take longer to get bright than it takes me to walk in the bathroom turn on the light, take a piss, turn the light off and leave has made me eliminate them from consideration. I have been through 3 or so rounds of this "oh but they are so much better now" crap and every time I have ended up being the dipshiat stuck with a bunch of crappy bulbs that I paid way too much for.
 
2011-08-04 11:03:58 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Someday I'm going to cash in on this hoard of rotary phones I've got stashed away in my basement.


Plug that search term into ebay and send me 10%
 
2011-08-04 11:43:22 PM  
fark the left...the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what they were doing to this country
 
ecl
2011-08-05 12:15:22 AM  

Ima4nic8or: So far I have yet to meet a cfl that does not suck. All the hippie dipshiats talk about them now having "warm tones" and being dimmable. Even the boxes now say they are "dimmable". Bullshiat. They are not dimmable in any meaningful way. If you think of the 75w incandescent as having a brightness range of 0 to 100 in brightness the best of the "dimmable" cfls cover maybe the 90 to 100 part of the range, below that they just shut off. I can live with the color but the lack of dimmability, the fact that they dont fit a good percentage of my fixtures, cost an arm and a leg, and take longer to get bright than it takes me to walk in the bathroom turn on the light, take a piss, turn the light off and leave has made me eliminate them from consideration. I have been through 3 or so rounds of this "oh but they are so much better now" crap and every time I have ended up being the dipshiat stuck with a bunch of crappy bulbs that I paid way too much for.




If you think it's all hippies pushing cfl's you are a f*cking retard.
 
2011-08-05 01:30:42 AM  

Minimally Hairy Beer-Powered Simian: cretinbob: This graphic on the side is utter bullshiat as well

[cache.boston.com image 620x710]

Just bought a new porch light. It uses 4x25w incandescent bulbs.
Problem solved.

It's not bullshiat. They are proven facts.


Yes, but how much of that spectrum can you really discern?
That's the only thing an incandescent has going for it.
That's the part I was calling bullshiat on. I have no problem with CFLs and LEDs
 
2011-08-05 01:37:31 AM  

The Homer Tax: That person is either uninformed themselves, lying to you, or both.


picardasciifacepalm.gif
 
2011-08-05 02:08:56 AM  

cretinbob: Charlie Freak: We put CFLs in at the store and they absolutely drive our tube amps nuts. We actually have to turn off the lights any time anyone wants to try a tube amp otherwise the 60hz hum from the ballast is unbearable.

Unfortunately it's not something we can isolate electrically without major renovation, so thanks, government.

[media.digikey.com image 640x640]
THIS

also I have a CFL that's been on continuously over my garage for 8+ years. We are doing some renovation and I'm not sure I want to replace it :(


it is probably radiated noise rather than conducted noise
 
2011-08-05 03:24:56 AM  

cretinbob: This graphic on the side is utter bullshiat as well

[cache.boston.com image 620x710]

Just bought a new porch light. It uses 4x25w incandescent bulbs.
Problem solved.


Earlier this year I took all my CFL's and replaced them with LED bulbs that consume 7.5 watts of power but have the light output equivalent of 40 watt bulbs. Worked great except my damn ceiling fans with the 4 of these bulbs are way to bright. Hurt your eyes bright so I ended up replacing 2 of the bulbs in the living room and kitchen with 1.5 volt LED bulbs. That turned out much better.

Had to replace 1 of the LED bulbs in the bedroom with a 1.5 bulb and the room is tolerable. (It has burgandy walls.)

As the bulbs in my garage burn out I will be taking the old CFL bulbs out there.
 
2011-08-05 04:24:44 AM  
I've been using CFLs since before they were popular but the current batches of subsidized bulbs are shiate compared to the ones I used to get 5-10 years ago. Back in the day, even the cheapest bulbs turned on almost instantly. Maybe 1/4 second to nearly full brightness. Even the 4-for-a-buck ones subsidized by the local electric company. The last few years, tho, the subsidized ones take 30-60 seconds to "warm up" and take as long as a second to put out anything at all. Only a handful of "premium" CFLs make any sort of quick-start claims.

Seems like we're moving backwards lately with CFLs.
 
2011-08-05 07:47:49 AM  

chimp_ninja: impaler: The right-wing talk radio butt-hurt brigade like to say "if they're so much better, the market will decide." Of course the market would have already decided if they didn't tell their sheep that CFLs are a liberal plot to destroy freedom.It's the same brigade that thinks we should be able to sell leaded gasoline and paint, and let the market decide that too. I'm sure they're hoarding all those delicious, delicious paint chips from pre-1978 housing so they don't run out of their favorite childhood breakfast food.


It is also that a lot of people will see a cheaper price at the store and buy those thinking they have a good deal, because the cost of the electricity used during the lifetime of the bulb, or the extra lifetime of a better bulb is far less immediate. People make bad decisions like this all the time as they don't have time to work out the best solution, so the market will always be wrong and inefficient when left to itself.
 
2011-08-05 09:47:46 AM  
Thread's dead, but I like to try to respond to helpful Farkers in informative threads. Appreciate it.

hutchkc: I remain hopeful, but they may be a startup talking big to drum up interest ....


Yeah, the website definitely reads like Grade A Silicon Valley VC Bullshiat, but I'm hoping that, whether it is them specifically or not, it's indicative of interest, investment and revolution in the market. Would be good for all involved. So, fingers crossed.

MrSteve007: Be very, very careful when it comes to stuff like this.


Thanks for the, as always, overly useful and highly informative posts. You sure you know you're on Fark? Seriously, though, your input in Green-type threads tends to be quite valuable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates it. (And probably not the only one who wonders if your boss knows you spend all day on Fark. ; ) )

MrSteve007: trust me, that wasn't a cheap lesson to learn.


Yebbut... you billed it all to clients, I hope. And it was probably reasonably fun, if occasionally frustrating. At the -very- least, I assume the research recovers its costs via being useful in marketing and client acquisition....

Thrag: There are reflector options in the new incandescent bulbs.


Interesting. It does seem like we're getting a lot of change and development right now... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's a trend that will continue (or accelerate!). As others have who mentioned it in this thread, I've been burned a few times by the, "but they're better now!" cycle... I'm'a give it a bit more time, but I'm getting close to risking getting burned again.

Really would like to get rid of the dinosaurs. I'm actually a bit surprised that there's not more development of can-replacement ideas like the Cree that MrSteve007 posted, in particular... will have to start watching that market.

Ima4nic8or: All the hippie dipshiats talk


See, now, THIS is really the problem with the CFL issue (and, frankly, many progressive causes, but that's a different issue). There are far too many loud-mouthed, unilateral, "my way or the highway," ill-informed / delusional / insensitive (actually insensitive to light issues, that is) people who shout, "GET YOUR CFLs! THEY'RE THE SAME THING! YER A MORAN!" disregarding any possibility that someone's situation could be different, someone's sensitivity to light qualities could be different, someone's use-case could be different, etc.

CFLs and other eco-bulbs *are* a good idea. They *should* be used as often as possible. Everyone *should* be encouraged to replace crappy incandescents wherever they can. But shouting that they're identical and anyone who doesn't use them everywhere is an idiot / teabagger / hoarding moron only damages the (valid, productive) cause.

There. That's enough procrastinating for the morning, and no one cares, anyway. Maybe I'll check out the lighting aisle at LoweDepot while I'm out and about today.
 
2011-08-05 09:52:12 AM  
Just in:

http://www.lightingprize.org/philips-winner.stm

I'll wait for these, thank you. Screw CFLs.

/goes to closet rubbing hands greedily over hoarded stash of 120W R30's and 40s
// My preciousssses.....
 
2011-08-05 11:51:39 AM  
The average farker seems to be able to get 300,000 miles out of his car with nothing but oil changes and brakes, but can't make a CFL bulb last 1/4 of its rated hours..
 
2011-08-05 04:31:11 PM  

dforkus: The average farker seems to be able to get 300,000 miles out of his car with nothing but oil changes and brakes, but can't make a CFL bulb last 1/4 of its rated hours..


I'm severely below-average. My Honda Civic imploded at 115k, but I'm still using the first CFL I bought from 14 years ago.
 
2011-08-06 01:26:09 AM  

dforkus: The average farker seems to be able to get 300,000 miles out of his car with nothing but oil changes and brakes, but can't make a CFL bulb last 1/4 of its rated hours..


I am driving a 92 Honda that looks like crap, gets over 30mpg and I rarely change the oil, never have done anything with the brakes and eventually I will have to change the tires.
 
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