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(Gawker)   Libertarian reporter gets (metaphorically) farked by Matt Damon   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Matt Damon, SmackDown, libertarians, slog, Ayn Randy  
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7652 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Aug 2011 at 7:55 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-08-02 08:26:28 PM  
I may be a straight man, but I'd have his gay love-child if he asked me nicely.
 
2011-08-02 08:26:45 PM  

relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.


Oh really?

well I guess they might have to get some plans together for the next year and finish shiat up but other than that...

There we go. Other than working, they have summers off.

I'm sure they'd love you calling them unskilled and comparing them to cashiers at Starbucks
 
2011-08-02 08:27:36 PM  

relcec: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off for someone with basically a liberal arts degree, of which this country produces a fark ton every year. many others with basically that same degree are slinging lattes or working at the home depot. for the limited level of skill they choose to acquire in life, they are fairly compensated.


1) It is a below market value salary for education level.
2) Most teachers during the summer are required to do continuing education/seminars both of which are paid for by said teacher
3) It isn't a degree in psychology. It is a degree in a very specific subject and geared toward child and young adult education. You don't get a degree in teaching, you get a degree in teaching math, physics, english, early childhood, special education, etc.
4) If you think you had shiatty teachers or your kids have shiatty teachers, take a look in the mirror, as it has been shown time and again, you can put the best teachers in schools and if the parents aren't involved or the students aren't self motivated then they will fail. Teaching is not a one street where the teacher spews information into the minds of passive children, but actually requires that the child be engaged. Teachers can not be expected to get through to 20, 30, or 40 kids, none of whom have a desire to learn.
 
2011-08-02 08:27:59 PM  
anyway, the point remains, damon doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. that is essentially a liberal arts degree. we produce a fark ton of those in this country and they aren't especially valuable anymore. they get good money and nice benefits, relatively speaking. no other 4 year liberal arts degree will ever pay so well I don't think. maybe the economics BA if you go to a good school, otherwise I imagine it is another piece of paper.
 
2011-08-02 08:28:25 PM  

Car_Ramrod: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...
So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.


Average US Teacher's Salary: $43,397
Average US Yearly Wage: $40,711

I would say a salary higher than average is decent. Even better if you do get the summer off.
 
2011-08-02 08:28:50 PM  

Sgt. Pepper: ScubaDude1960: 1) Teachers teach because they love to teach. So what?

So it's an oversimplification to say that teachers don't have an incentive to teach well when they're given tenure.


Of course. I wasn't sticking up for the reporter... I was saying that neither of them made good points. It's hard to tell which one was more ignorant. Both of them just regurgitated talking points (altho the I-have-no-idea-what-it-means look on Damon's face when he said, "intrinsically paternalistic," was priceless).

Does liking the job automatically make them good at it?

Is English your first language? He didn't say anything like that.


Either that's what he thinks, or he thinks that lousy teachers should be given tenure. What other option is there?
 
2011-08-02 08:28:59 PM  

Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.

Oh really?

well I guess they might have to get some plans together for the next year and finish shiat up but other than that...

There we go. Other than working, they have summers off.

I'm sure they'd love you calling them unskilled and comparing them to cashiers at Starbucks


doesn't take all summer to put the books together and rehash the same old lesson plan because you have tenure and don't give a shiat.
 
2011-08-02 08:29:24 PM  

liam76: And it is dishonest to pretend that all teachers with tenure both have incentive, and are good teachers.


OK, no one actually made that argument, but good point. Any other strawmen you want to beat down?
 
2011-08-02 08:29:29 PM  

DeusMeh: 10% of Farkers are shiatty posters. thank you GentlemanJ for proving my point

//i know, i know...that number is way too low


Poop thread?

www.historyplace.com

Poo if by sea! Poop thread! Poop thread!
 
2011-08-02 08:29:48 PM  

Thrag: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

Protip: don't use terms you have never actually looked up in an effort to look smart.

There was not a single instance of "ad hominem" in that video.


"Maybe you're a shiatty cameraman" might qualify, but that's about it.
 
2011-08-02 08:29:57 PM  

nmrsnr: No, the question raised was whether or not removing job security will motivate teachers. This motivation only works if teachers are motivated by monetary considerations. Given that they clearly are driven by passion, monetary considerations like job security are not factors that enter into a teacher's performance.


So passion and monetary concerns are mutually exclusive?

So all teachers are going to have passion for their job throughout their career?

/btw, using your logic of them not being motivated at all by monetary consideration why can't we pay them 1/2 as much?
 
2011-08-02 08:32:21 PM  
I think what we really need to do is keep cutting teacher pay and continue to demonize and belittle them (and public education in general) until nobody in their right mind would take a teaching job which will prove our hypothesis that the education system is in a shambles. Problem solved!

Please continue...
 
2011-08-02 08:32:42 PM  

relcec: anyway, the point remains, damon doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. that is essentially a liberal arts degree. we produce a fark ton of those in this country and they aren't especially valuable anymore. they get good money and nice benefits, relatively speaking. no other 4 year liberal arts degree will ever pay so well I don't think. maybe the economics BA if you go to a good school, otherwise I imagine it is another piece of paper.


Is this post supposed to be an example of why we need better teachers?
 
2011-08-02 08:33:45 PM  

Hand to the Face: Snapper Carr: Nadie_AZ: I like this one better (new window)

Who was that and is there any more of him? That was farking awesome.

Taylor Mali
you would like this too (new window)


lol anal community colleague....that was great, thank you sir!
 
2011-08-02 08:34:00 PM  
Anyone who seriously thinks that teachers have the summer off has obviously never met my father.
 
2011-08-02 08:35:07 PM  

dlp211: relcec: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off for someone with basically a liberal arts degree, of which this country produces a fark ton every year. many others with basically that same degree are slinging lattes or working at the home depot. for the limited level of skill they choose to acquire in life, they are fairly compensated.

1) It is a below market value salary for education level.
2) Most teachers during the summer are required to do continuing education/seminars both of which are paid for by said teacher
3) It isn't a degree in psychology. It is a degree in a very specific subject and geared toward child and young adult education. You don't get a degree in teaching, you get a degree in teaching math, physics, english, early childhood, special education, etc.
4) If you think you had shiatty teachers or your kids have shiatty teachers, take a look in the mirror, as it has been shown time and again, you can put the best teachers in schools and if the parents aren't involved or the students aren't self motivated then they will fail. Teaching is not a one street where the teacher spews information into the minds of passive children, but actually requires that the child be engaged. Teachers can not be expected to get through to 20, 30, or 40 kids, none of whom have a desire to learn.


I had good teachers. I went to good schools. I got a BA in history. I got a JD. I have a very nice job. my beef is not with teachers. oh please. a teaching certificate is not a difficult accomplishment. and neither is a liberal arts degree. I have one. this is not remotely a specialized skill. they are compensated for their training level. everyone knows this. this is why there are people that want to be teachers even though you have to deal with kids.
 
2011-08-02 08:35:22 PM  

relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.

Oh really?

well I guess they might have to get some plans together for the next year and finish shiat up but other than that...

There we go. Other than working, they have summers off.

I'm sure they'd love you calling them unskilled and comparing them to cashiers at Starbucks

doesn't take all summer to put the books together and rehash the same old lesson plan because you have tenure and don't give a shiat.


You're obviously someone who's never been a teacher, or known a teacher outside of a classroom, aren't you?
 
2011-08-02 08:35:28 PM  
You know what I hate most about libertarians like reason? They have this smug self-righteous attitude that everyone views the world through some fictional narrative except them. God I love seeing a farking actor make one of them look stupid. He didnt just explain how they were wrong on this issue, he exposed how their whole world view is farked up. Good on him.
 
2011-08-02 08:36:01 PM  

Thrag: relcec: anyway, the point remains, damon doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. that is essentially a liberal arts degree. we produce a fark ton of those in this country and they aren't especially valuable anymore. they get good money and nice benefits, relatively speaking. no other 4 year liberal arts degree will ever pay so well I don't think. maybe the economics BA if you go to a good school, otherwise I imagine it is another piece of paper.

Is this post supposed to be an example of why we need better teachers?


I think they are adequate. do you think they suck?
 
2011-08-02 08:36:08 PM  

relcec: anyway, the point remains, damon doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. that is essentially a liberal arts degree. we produce a fark ton of those in this country and they aren't especially valuable anymore. they get good money and nice benefits, relatively speaking. no other 4 year liberal arts degree will ever pay so well I don't think. maybe the economics BA if you go to a good school, otherwise I imagine it is another piece of paper.



I work in a state that requires a Master's Degree to teach after 5 years. No other profession which requires a Master's Degree pays so little.
 
2011-08-02 08:37:29 PM  

liam76: nmrsnr: No, the question raised was whether or not removing job security will motivate teachers. This motivation only works if teachers are motivated by monetary considerations. Given that they clearly are driven by passion, monetary considerations like job security are not factors that enter into a teacher's performance.

So passion and monetary concerns are mutually exclusive?

So all teachers are going to have passion for their job throughout their career?

/btw, using your logic of them not being motivated at all by monetary consideration why can't we pay them 1/2 as much?


Same reason we can't just hang all prisoners to save on prison costs? We're not uncivilized dickbags.
 
2011-08-02 08:37:49 PM  
The sad part is Matt Damon was there to advocate preventing African-American children from accessing high quality charter schools in Washington DC. The march organizers are against DC's charter school programs which benefit these children.
 
2011-08-02 08:37:50 PM  

ciderczar: DeusMeh:

Poop thread?

Poo if by sea! Poop thread! Poop thread!


Well since half of the thread shatners have been outed in the last two days (or have they?) we lighters need some poop around this place.
/don't care what TFD is doing but guess they are laughing their $5 footlongs off
 
2011-08-02 08:37:50 PM  

Sgt. Pepper: I suspect she doesn't like them apples.


i.imgur.com

Applesauce, biatch.
 
2011-08-02 08:38:11 PM  
Matt Damon should have responded with "If I don't want to do a movie with Snookie, I don't have to. If I don't want to star in a crap romcom with Sarah Jessica Parker, I don't have to. If I don't want to be in the next Scary Movie 7, I don't have to. A teacher doesn't get that choice. They have to act with people that can't remember lines, directors with no artistic vision and work for producers that are cheap."
 
2011-08-02 08:38:16 PM  
Reason and American Thinker... carrying the conservative tradition of complete misnomers into new media.
 
2011-08-02 08:39:06 PM  

Sgt. Pepper: liam76: And it is dishonest to pretend that all teachers with tenure both have incentive, and are good teachers.

OK, no one actually made that argument, but good point. Any other strawmen you want to beat down?


You said it is "an oversimplification to say that teachers don't have an incentive to teach well when they're given tenure" which I agree with, but the reverse isn't true either that they do have incentive after getting tenure.

And if you are against rating them and removing ones with tenure, then yes you are assuming they are all "good" or you are just fine with bad teachers.
 
2011-08-02 08:39:21 PM  

relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.


I'm a teacher posting this from my summer job, so I'm getting a kick...

If by "summers off", you mean unemployed (with no pay) for 2/10 of the year, then you are correct.

If, however, you are operating under the commonly held yet erroneous belief that we continue to get paid while doing no work, I suggest you have a conversation with the two teachers in your family. Be sure to tell them what lazy shiats they are, too.
 
2011-08-02 08:39:34 PM  

ScubaDude1960: Sgt. Pepper: ScubaDude1960: 1) Teachers teach because they love to teach. So what?

So it's an oversimplification to say that teachers don't have an incentive to teach well when they're given tenure.

Of course. I wasn't sticking up for the reporter... I was saying that neither of them made good points. It's hard to tell which one was more ignorant. Both of them just regurgitated talking points (altho the I-have-no-idea-what-it-means look on Damon's face when he said, "intrinsically paternalistic," was priceless).

Does liking the job automatically make them good at it?

Is English your first language? He didn't say anything like that.

Either that's what he thinks, or he thinks that lousy teachers should be given tenure. What other option is there?


Have you ever thought it might be time to stop posting? When you are demonstrating such a poor grasp of not only the topic but basic English comprehension is it really a good idea to continue? If all you have are arguments based on your own ignorance and laughable misunderstanding of simple conversation why continue to embarrass yourself? Do you really think you are successfully digging up with this last response?

He wasn't saying that liking the job means they are all good teachers. He's saying a lack of job security won't somehow make them better teachers. He was refuting the general concept that monetary reward is the only thing that drives performance (which is isn't for anything above simple mindless labor). It's not love of money that keeps most teachers teaching, it's love of teaching. Watch it again and try to actually follow the conversation this time.
 
2011-08-02 08:40:20 PM  

LincolnLogolas: relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.

Oh really?

well I guess they might have to get some plans together for the next year and finish shiat up but other than that...

There we go. Other than working, they have summers off.

I'm sure they'd love you calling them unskilled and comparing them to cashiers at Starbucks

doesn't take all summer to put the books together and rehash the same old lesson plan because you have tenure and don't give a shiat.

You're obviously someone who's never been a teacher, or known a teacher outside of a classroom, aren't you?


I have 2 teachers that are in my family. they are nice, very smart, caring, intelligent women.
one has gone back and got her masters over the years because they were willing to offer more money if she did. she is now compensated at around $85 grand a year when benefits are included (4 kids and hubby on the health plan). she is fairly compensated. she lives in a rural area of a rural state. I just think this business about teachers getting screwed is nonsense.
 
2011-08-02 08:40:56 PM  

relcec: Thrag: relcec: anyway, the point remains, damon doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. that is essentially a liberal arts degree. we produce a fark ton of those in this country and they aren't especially valuable anymore. they get good money and nice benefits, relatively speaking. no other 4 year liberal arts degree will ever pay so well I don't think. maybe the economics BA if you go to a good school, otherwise I imagine it is another piece of paper.

Is this post supposed to be an example of why we need better teachers?

I think they are adequate. do you think they suck?


Did you just happen to hear a whooshing sound?
 
2011-08-02 08:41:35 PM  

relcec: I had good teachers. I went to good schools. I got a BA in history. I got a JD. I have a very nice job. my beef is not with teachers. oh please. a teaching certificate is not a difficult accomplishment. and neither is a liberal arts degree. I have one. this is not remotely a specialized skill. they are compensated for their training level. everyone knows this. this is why there are people that want to be teachers even though you have to deal with kids.


Maybe your state is different, but in my state you can't get an English degree and then a teaching certificate.

So your beef isn't with teachers, but you think they are overpaid, underperform, and are the equivalent of a barista.....got it.
 
2011-08-02 08:41:59 PM  

soy_bomb: The sad part is Matt Damon was there to advocate preventing African-American children from accessing high quality charter schools in Washington DC. The march organizers are against DC's charter school programs which benefit these children.


My understanding is that it's a bit more complicated than that. For example, some people don't like that students in the exact same school building are receiving grossly different material support levels. They seem to think this will negatively affect those who get less. That seems like a reasonable concern to me. I've also heard much more serious (although seemingly incredible) allegations about the treatment of conventional public school students in such shared settings.
 
2011-08-02 08:42:25 PM  

liverleef: You know what I hate most about libertarians like reason? They have this smug self-righteous attitude that everyone views the world through some fictional narrative except them. God I love seeing a farking actor make one of them look stupid. He didnt just explain how they were wrong on this issue, he exposed how their whole world view is farked up. Good on him.


Ayep.

images.elephantjournal.com
 
2011-08-02 08:44:28 PM  

soy_bomb: Average US Teacher's Salary: $43,397
Average US Yearly Wage: $40,711

I would say a salary higher than average is decent. Even better if you do get the summer off.


What's the average teacher's educational level? What sort of certifications are required?

What's the average US worker's educational level? What sort of certifications are required for the average US worker?

Only when you answer this can it be a fair comparison. Considering that a people having attained a Bachelor's level of education constitutes, what, about 20% of the population, it would seem that teachers (who at last have a BA or BS) would be the ones dramatically underpaid considering their level of education attainment (the median weekly wage of a worker with a Bachelor's level education is approximately $1,038 a week or $53,976 dollars a year, far less than $43,397 you cited).
 
2011-08-02 08:44:37 PM  

fillahbuster: Matt Damon should have responded with "If I don't want to do a movie with Snookie, I don't have to. If I don't want to star in a crap romcom with Sarah Jessica Parker, I don't have to. If I don't want to be in the next Scary Movie 7, I don't have to. A teacher doesn't get that choice. They have to act with people that can't remember lines, directors with no artistic vision and work for producers that are cheap."


This reminds me of one of the best take downs I ever heard of applying the "business model" to schools: unlike businesses schools can't control for the quality of their inputs. You have to take everybody who comes through the door and somehow turn them into a satisfactory finished "product."
 
2011-08-02 08:44:57 PM  

GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.


Republicans think actors who aren't Republicans should stick to acting.
 
2011-08-02 08:45:46 PM  

soy_bomb: Car_Ramrod: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...
So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Average US Teacher's Salary: $43,397
Average US Yearly Wage: $40,711

I would say a salary higher than average is decent. Even better if you do get the summer off.


Do you know what the term ceteris paribus means, and how it relates to marginal analysis?
 
2011-08-02 08:45:55 PM  
What about gym teachers, though? Mine were all just high school athletes that couldn't compete at a higher level, but wanted to spend the rest of their life in a gym. Their teaching style was basically "Here's a red ball, go play kick ball." I did like gym an awful lot, but it wasn't because of the quality of the "teaching".
 
2011-08-02 08:46:23 PM  

Thrag: He wasn't saying that liking the job means they are all good teachers. He's saying a lack of job security won't somehow make them better teachers.


If he wasn't saying that makes them good teachers, and he is against removing ones with bad performance then he is for bad teachers keeping their jobs.

Thrag: He was refuting the general concept that monetary reward is the only thing that drives performance (which is isn't for anything above simple mindless labor). It's not love of money that keeps most teachers teaching, it's love of teaching. Watch it again and try to actually follow the conversation this time


I don't think anyone has said that.
 
2011-08-02 08:47:27 PM  

Thrag: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

Protip: don't use terms you have never actually looked up in an effort to look smart.

There was not a single instance of "ad hominem" in that video.


Shh. That's the only line most of them can come up with. Let them have their fun.
 
2011-08-02 08:47:28 PM  

EZ1923: relcec: Car_Ramrod: relcec: Car_Ramrod: GentlemanJ: That was more proof that Matt Damon should stick to acting, and all the cheering from the peanut gallery doesn't make his reasoning and use of ad hominem any better.

What an eloquent rebuttal to his point.

Teachers know they get paid poorly and work crappy hours, but choose to go into that profession anyways. This implies they do it for the love of their job. Insisting this will change after tenure doesn't make sense.

Response?

it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...

So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Two people in my extended family teach. they have summers off if they like.

I'm a teacher posting this from my summer job, so I'm getting a kick...

If by "summers off", you mean unemployed (with no pay) for 2/10 1/5 of the year, then you are correct.

If, however, you are operating under the commonly held yet erroneous belief that we continue to get paid while doing no work, I suggest you have a conversation with the two teachers in your family. Be sure to tell them what lazy shiats they are, too.


I'll give you a B. Your numbers are technically correct, but you should always reduce to the lowest common denominator.
 
2011-08-02 08:49:26 PM  

RexTalionis: soy_bomb: Average US Teacher's Salary: $43,397
Average US Yearly Wage: $40,711

I would say a salary higher than average is decent. Even better if you do get the summer off.

What's the average teacher's educational level? What sort of certifications are required?

What's the average US worker's educational level? What sort of certifications are required for the average US worker?

Only when you answer this can it be a fair comparison. Considering that a people having attained a Bachelor's level of education constitutes, what, about 20% of the population, it would seem that teachers (who at last have a BA or BS) would be the ones dramatically underpaid considering their level of education attainment (the median weekly wage of a worker with a Bachelor's level education is approximately $1,038 a week or $53,976 dollars a year, far less than $43,397 you cited).


Yes, came here to say this, an additional 3k a year is crap for getting a bachelors.
 
2011-08-02 08:49:44 PM  

relcec: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off for someone with basically a liberal arts degree, of which this country produces a fark ton every year. many others with basically that same degree are slinging lattes or working at the home depot. for the limited level of skill they choose to acquire in life, they are fairly compensated.


So the solution is market forces? That doesn't follow at all. Attempting to further insensitive teachers will at best push these "bad teachers" into other parts of the economy and more than likely just push good teachers out in to more immediately lucrative and less stressful endeavors.

Isn't a more realistic solution to stop telling everyone to go to college so that they are happy and in control of their life, rather than a drain on society?
 
2011-08-02 08:50:11 PM  

liam76: nmrsnr: No, the question raised was whether or not removing job security will motivate teachers. This motivation only works if teachers are motivated by monetary considerations. Given that they clearly are driven by passion, monetary considerations like job security are not factors that enter into a teacher's performance.

So passion and monetary concerns are mutually exclusive?


No, but while you can enjoy being paid for a job while you love, threatening to cut your salary (or your job entirely) will not motivate you to work harder, since you already do it for things other than money.

So all teachers are going to have passion for their job throughout their career?

Again, no, but if you haven't been weeded out of it by the time tenure rolls around you're probably (note: probably) not in it for the lulz.

/btw, using your logic of them not being motivated at all by monetary consideration why can't we pay them 1/2 as much?

Because people doing the thankless job of raising the future of this country to be well rounded, highly skilled individuals should be compensated accordingly. Why should we only pay people the amount they won't quit over, instead of at the value of their service?
 
2011-08-02 08:50:24 PM  

gameshowhost: soy_bomb: Car_Ramrod: it's a decent salary with good benefits with summers off...
So you don't know anything about teachers? Cool, thanks for contributing nothing of value.

Average US Teacher's Salary: $43,397
Average US Yearly Wage: $40,711

I would say a salary higher than average is decent. Even better if you do get the summer off.

Do you know what the term ceteris paribus means, and how it relates to marginal analysis?


It's the scientific name of the three-headed dog guarding Hades.
 
2011-08-02 08:50:48 PM  

dlp211: relcec: I had good teachers. I went to good schools. I got a BA in history. I got a JD. I have a very nice job. my beef is not with teachers. oh please. a teaching certificate is not a difficult accomplishment. and neither is a liberal arts degree. I have one. this is not remotely a specialized skill. they are compensated for their training level. everyone knows this. this is why there are people that want to be teachers even though you have to deal with kids.

Maybe your state is different, but in my state you can't get an English degree and then a teaching certificate.

So your beef isn't with teachers, but you think they are overpaid, underperform, and are the equivalent of a barista.....got it.



here you can get your liberal arts degree and later get a teaching certificate.

I said think they are compensated fairly. I never said they under perform. I took exception to damon saying they have a shiatty job with long hours and low pay.
you want higher pay teachers?
have your professional organizations demand more out of your membership instead of more in the way of compensation for 30 years. if you can get the vocation to become more selective it can become a profession and it can demand professional wages and then it can demand the power to police itself from the legislature.
 
2011-08-02 08:50:57 PM  

liverleef: You know what I hate most about libertarians like reason? They have this smug self-righteous attitude that everyone views the world through some fictional narrative except them. God I love seeing a farking actor make one of them look stupid. He didnt just explain how they were wrong on this issue, he exposed how their whole world view is farked up. Good on him.


I like how they throw some cleavage out there, asking retarded questions, hoping that viewers won't notice just how retarded the questions actually were.
 
2011-08-02 08:51:00 PM  

liam76: but the reverse isn't true either that they do have incentive after getting tenure.


Wrong. They still have the incentive that they actually want to be teachers and do a good job. That's his whole farking point.

And if you are against rating them and removing ones with tenure, then yes you are assuming they are all "good" or you are just fine with bad teachers.

I never said anything like that. It is incorrect to say that teachers with tenure have no incentive to do a good job. That's all I've said.
 
2011-08-02 08:51:19 PM  

soy_bomb: The sad part is Matt Damon was there to advocate preventing African-American children from accessing high quality charter schools in Washington DC. The march organizers are against DC's charter school programs which benefit these children.


You'll take your crappy DC provided education and you'll like it!

Of course, Matt Damon makes something like $25 million a year and is worth upwards of $60m total. Wonder how many kids he could afford to send to better schools on his own dime. Or donate to make crappy schools better. Of course, it is you that needs to sacrifice. He will talk to you about it in between visits to his mansion and various island resorts.
 
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