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(Talking Points Memo)   Government reaches debt agreement. Or, 'how Obama got steamrolled by everyone'   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 1056
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27276 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2011 at 9:25 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-08-01 01:16:00 AM  

organizm: I hope you're right. Even though most of America seems to have sided with the Democrats on this one, if I'm not mistaken, Obama's approval ratings have dropped to an all time low after this.


I think they dropped to an all-time low because it to so long to get this done. They were sick of Obama on their TV talking "debt ceiling debt ciling debt ceiling" and were saying, "We get it do something!"

Now that he's done something (pending passage of the bill), everybody can move on. Congress can keep their fighting limited to the CSPAN's and the public can return to the next Pretty White Woman of Intrigue. People hopefully won't experience a negative change to their way of life, liberals will see that this compromise isn't the worst thing in the world, Obama's approval rating will normalize, and those who swore not to give him their vote will come to their sense well before November 2012.

/No need to say "my bad" when that happens; it'll be understood.
 
2011-08-01 01:17:36 AM  
www.jonathanrosenbaum.com
 
2011-08-01 01:18:11 AM  

Bill Frist: The reasons why right-leaning policies win have to do with a lot of things, but it isn't because the American public leans to the right.


I wasn't talking about the American people, who I would agree would support progressive policy.

They're not the ones making it. They're the ones who go along with it because by and large most of us are too busy to get more involved than a "Yes" or "No" at the ballot box.

Our policy is forged and implemented by conservative-leaning people. Period. If there is something too extreme, it gets watered down by powerful lobbies and other entities who are part of the right-leaning "traditional" mechanism that pretty much drives this country.

(at least not how the right and left are defined in the US. the American public may lean to the right versus Europe)

Just noting what our government does as a whole, no matter who's in office. Granted, the Democrats appear to be more supportive of problems lower-income people have, AS LONG as it doesn't step on big business's toes too much.

That's actually pretty right-leaning. Just in principle. Money>people's well being.
 
2011-08-01 01:20:52 AM  
Christ, Obama should just get it over with already and play the 14th amendment card and tell the Tea Party to kiss his ass.

No revenue increases? You have got to be farking kidding me.
 
2011-08-01 01:22:28 AM  
Great.

Republicans got the token, "look good" spending cuts they originally wanted and kept any form of revenue generation off the table yet again, which will halt the economic recovery just enough to keep it in the can until election season. Meanwhile, he got just enough of an initial debt ceiling increase to land the next debt ceiling fight square in the middle of the election, and the Republicans get to play political theater and "but Fartbama!" with a DOA "disapproval" vanity vote while holding no responsibility. Plus, we get more political theater with no genuine practical purpose over the "balanced budget amendment", which has to be the worst policy proposal I've read about since the goddamned Iraq War resolution.

At this point, the only way Obama could end up further to the right (save a handful of token positions to keep the liberals enfranchised) is if he started walking around with a poorly-spelled protest sign and started demanding to see his own birth certificate.
 
2011-08-01 01:22:56 AM  

Bill Frist: by what definition is the US a "right-leaning" country?


Your entire political spectrum is to the right of pretty much everyone else's.
 
2011-08-01 01:23:46 AM  

monsatano: Angry Inch: The irony of all this is that what happened with the deficit limit didn't matter one bit. The US is insolvent. Has been for a while now, it's only a matter of time.

WHAR?
SOLVENCY
WHAR?
\ /
O
|
/ \


THARS~!
 
2011-08-01 01:25:14 AM  

Pincy: Christ, Obama should just get it over with already and play the 14th amendment card and tell the Tea Party to kiss his ass.

No revenue increases? You have got to be farking kidding me.


The 14th Amendment requires us to not question debts. It does not require us to take more debt to pay old debt. We have other ways of paying off old debt (such as the sale of assets). When President Obama said that the 14th amendment argument was not a winning argument, he was probably correct. Whether he was correct or not, the legal issues that it would bring up would NOT bring about short term stability.
 
2011-08-01 01:26:01 AM  
I posted.
 
2011-08-01 01:26:51 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: It'll be fun watching the House GOP create all of those jobs they promised while cutting spending.


Those jobs will be created by the rich people whose tax cuts were preserved, of course!
 
2011-08-01 01:28:06 AM  
One facet of leadership is manipulating choices so that the outcome you want is the one that is chosen.

By that measure, the Obama administration is a total failure. This "crisis" has been coming for months...and all Obama's boys and girls have been sitting around with their thumbs up their collective asses. It's no that they did a bad job, they didn't even try.

Thanks Obama! That's change that is hard to believe.
 
2011-08-01 01:28:53 AM  
Obama got what he wanted. No more talk on this issue until after the election.

So this "crisis" is now over. The gov't will now resume spending trillions of borrowed dollars. Nothing has changed. The so-called "spending cuts" will never survive the budgets that follow.

Business as usual. Obama will say that he "gave so much", but he actually scored all that mattered to him. And Boehner lost. He will have a hard time convincing people otherwise.
 
2011-08-01 01:29:34 AM  
Settle down, guys, I'm creatin' jobs as fast as I can...
 
2011-08-01 01:30:30 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Republicans got the token, "look good" spending cuts they originally wanted and kept any form of revenue generation off the table yet again, which will halt the economic recovery just enough to keep it in the can until election season. Meanwhile, he got just enough of an initial debt ceiling increase to land the next debt ceiling fight square in the middle of the election, and the Republicans get to play political theater and "but Fartbama!" with a DOA "disapproval" vanity vote while holding no responsibility. Plus, we get more political theater with no genuine practical purpose over the "balanced budget amendment", which has to be the worst policy proposal I've read about since the goddamned Iraq War resolution.


This pretty much summed up my views. It does seem like the cuts may fall off the table later on, but that's not what matters. What matters IMO is how this is perfectly framed to play out in the media now, next year, and again and again... Ugh. I feel this is nothing more than setting up the next few years politically so that the right can pander to the low-information voters that just love to shout and scream about whatever tragedy they claim is happening to them.

/Still irritated at the "taxed to death" license plate she saw today... In Oakland Co. (one of the richest counties in America).
 
2011-08-01 01:30:47 AM  

archichris: Have you ever been in a car sales room and seen the young guy, with the expensive shoes and the shiny shorts and the backwards ball cap, and he is trading in a 2 year old Hyundai with rims and a stereo and unpainted bodywork and the salesman is telling him that the car isnt worth what he owes on it so if he wants his new Kia today he is going to have to roll over about half the loan on the hyundai into the Kia loan and it will be at 19%?

Thats Obama right now.....Anything to keep the party rolling.



TL;DR Obama is upside-down on a Hyundai.
 
2011-08-01 01:32:04 AM  

TsukasaK: HAMMERTOE: When you run your credit card to its limit, raising the credit card limit does not equal making your payments.

Once again, for the incredibly slow in the audience:

THE UNITED STATES BUDGET IS NOT ANALOGOUS TO HOUSEHOLD FINANCES.


US Budget is to Houshold Finances as ....? You need a clarifying statement to help the increadibly slow understand how debt is different than more debt and how spending more is better than never spending less.

The difference is that households can't vote themselves a larger spending limit on their credit cards. Sadly it's people like you who seem capable of seeing the value in stopping an overeater or over spender from bingeing but when it's the government: suddenly guys like you take the likes of a Reid or Boehner as though they know more than us and they know we can't comprehend what they do being so smart and all by virtue of having won a spending contest every few years.
 
2011-08-01 01:32:28 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Great.

Republicans got the token, "look good" spending cuts they originally wanted and kept any form of revenue generation off the table yet again, which will halt the economic recovery just enough to keep it in the can until election season. Meanwhile, he got just enough of an initial debt ceiling increase to land the next debt ceiling fight square in the middle of the election, and the Republicans get to play political theater and "but Fartbama!" with a DOA "disapproval" vanity vote while holding no responsibility. Plus, we get more political theater with no genuine practical purpose over the "balanced budget amendment", which has to be the worst policy proposal I've read about since the goddamned Iraq War resolution.

At this point, the only way Obama could end up further to the right (save a handful of token positions to keep the liberals enfranchised) is if he started walking around with a poorly-spelled protest sign and started demanding to see his own birth certificate.


Well said.
It really is funny. What makes anyone think that Congress can agree on $1.5 trillion in cuts/revenue in November, but not today? And I don't really believe the Republican care about military cuts, except when it's THEIR military.
Nice bargaining, dumbshiats.
 
2011-08-01 01:32:33 AM  

SH: Kills me how the rich upper 5% who control 72% of the wealth have the entire teabagging goddamn country fooled meanwhile they have this valiant fight in congress to reduce spending.


Pro tip: Worry more about what's in your own bank account, and less about what's in other peoples'.

That's how most of the wealthy got that way.
 
2011-08-01 01:33:06 AM  
I think I'm gonna have to ignore politics for awhile. I could handle the retards on the right just fine, and they're kinda fun to smack around. but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.
 
2011-08-01 01:34:46 AM  

Angry Inch: the word of the day is EXPONENTIAL
[i51.tinypic.com image 640x276]


The word of the day is FAIL.

Inflation? GDP increase? Not in your vocabulary perhaps. We have had far higher debts in past without Mad Max cannibal anarchy.

www.progressinaction.com
 
2011-08-01 01:35:42 AM  

log_jammin: but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.


Examples?
 
2011-08-01 01:36:23 AM  

Pincy: Christ, Obama should just get it over with already and play the 14th amendment card and tell the Tea Party to kiss his ass.

No revenue increases? You have got to be farking kidding me.


why? He wasn't looking for revenue increases in the first place. Just a debt ceiling raise. He got that.

How do you think pulling the 14th Amendment "card" would work? He'd snap his fingers and the ceiling would be magically raised? Is it a Magic the Gathering Card that I haven't seen yet? Dispel Teabaggers' Wall of Debt Payment Obstruction
 
2011-08-01 01:36:29 AM  

Angry Inch: the word of the day is EXPONENTIAL
[i51.tinypic.com image 640x276]


Which maps precisely to the introduction of laissez-fairetardism into our once-great nation's economic system. Not a coincidence. Is the causal factor.
 
2011-08-01 01:37:05 AM  

whidbey: log_jammin: but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.

Examples?


I just found two
 
2011-08-01 01:39:35 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: SH: Kills me how the rich upper 5% who control 72% of the wealth have the entire teabagging goddamn country fooled meanwhile they have this valiant fight in congress to reduce spending.

Pro tip: Worry more about what's in your own bank account, and less about what's in other peoples'.

That's how most of the wealthy got that way.


"Pro Tip": The strongest correlation on how the wealthy got to where they are now is by being born into a family that is wealthy.

People born into families in the top 5% of income earners are 22 times as likely to themselves be in the top 5% of income earners when compared to people born into families in the bottom 20% of income earners.

Even compared to middle class (40-60th percentile) income earners, those born into the top 5% are 12 times as likely to themselves be in the top 5%.

Center for American Progress, Understanding Mobility in America - April 26, 2006
 
2011-08-01 01:39:45 AM  

gameshowhost: Angry Inch: the word of the day is EXPONENTIAL
[i51.tinypic.com image 640x276]

Which maps precisely to the introduction of laissez-fairetardism into our once-great nation's economic system. Not a coincidence. Is the causal factor.


yeah, nothing says "eliminating government involvement in the markets" like the exponential growth in US debt used to involve the government in the markets
 
2011-08-01 01:40:03 AM  
It is good if there is no default. It risks too damn much. That any on either side of the aisle would consider it is scary.

That being said, it still punts the problem for a few years.

I dare say that the following will be needed to get the budget under control: 1) Very serious cuts in discretionary spending. 2) Very serious cuts to the military. 3) serious reforms for entitlements. 4) Someone is going to have to pay higher taxes.

The scary thing is that both tax increases and spending decreases put the economy at risk. That is why we should have been more careful when the economy was good so we would not be in this mess when the economy is bad. Ideally the government should be saving money in good times so it can do some temporary deficit spending when times are bad. We won't be in that situation for a long time.

It is a damn shame that Gore did not become president. If we had not unnecessarily invaded Iraq and decreased those taxes, the budget situation would be trillions better than it is now. Bush really screwed us all.
 
2011-08-01 01:40:05 AM  

skullkrusher: whidbey: log_jammin: but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.

Examples?

I just found two


Yeah well I wasn't looking to join your Little Boys Gold Plated Monopoly Club anyway, but I'm still curious as to what logjammin is referring to.
 
2011-08-01 01:42:19 AM  

that bosnian sniper: At this point, the only way Obama could end up further to the right (save a handful of token positions to keep the liberals enfranchised) is if he started walking around with a poorly-spelled protest sign and started demanding to see his own birth certificate.


He's still a centrist... always has been. Did you think he was a liberal? In reality, he isn't a liberal or a conservative. Ideally he would like a more progressive approach, but he's a realist too... so he has to play ball with whoever is on the court (so to speak). I think you'll see a much more progressive President Obama in his second term.
 
2011-08-01 01:42:46 AM  

organizm: My issue here is that the GOP holding the debt ceiling hostage was unprecedented (at least in my lifetime). Now, because he (mostly) caved in to their demands, we can expect to see a lot more of this. From BOTH sides in the future. Now the kidnappers know they can get something. So now they're gonna hold more hostages.


Yes, this is a HUGE problem. But I don't think you need to worry about the Democrats doing this. For the same reason that you didn't see them impeach Bush, or create a government shutdown when they didn't get what they wanted. Either because they are responsible or because they are timid, congressional Democrats don't really fight with that kind of brinksmanship.

In other respects I do not like the deal, but having seen the details, it is not as bad as I feared it might be. It's kind of a "hostage swap" really. We get to do all this again in 5 months, and then we'll see how good or bad the final arrangement is.
 
2011-08-01 01:44:01 AM  

whidbey: skullkrusher: whidbey: log_jammin: but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.

Examples?

I just found two

Yeah well I wasn't looking to join your Little Boys Gold Plated Monopoly Club anyway, but I'm still curious as to what logjammin is referring to.


I dont know what LBGPMC is but it sounds awesome. Can I be the battleship? I always liked the battleship. The car would do too. Just none of that iron shiat. That's for girls
 
2011-08-01 01:46:03 AM  

organizm: Maybe it's just my bias, but I feel like he had finally come across as a strong, powerful leader after Bin Laden was killed. I feel like that's all been squandered now, and he's come across as a weak president, who can't control a few far right extremists in congress.


What the fark did you think was the point of all this posturing? They had to take him down a peg. It didn't have to be this, it could easily have been some other insignificant bullshiat congress had done 100 times before and 7 times in the past decade. This is what they do. They play the press and control the argument until you think the way they need you to.
 
2011-08-01 01:46:19 AM  

Critch: Looks like operation: Make sure the liberal voters stay home in 2012 is in full effect. I'm sure as hell staying home, I'm not giving either of these farkers my vote.


Just remember not to biatch after the rest of us decide without you.
 
2011-08-01 01:46:30 AM  

JohnnyC: He's still a centrist... always has been. Did you think he was a liberal? In reality, he isn't a liberal or a conservative. Ideally he would like a more progressive approach, but he's a realist too... so he has to play ball with whoever is on the court (so to speak). I think you'll see a much more progressive President Obama in his second term.


I'd hope so, but the most leftist leftie who ever left won't do a bit of good if the House of Representatives is filled with Republicans. IMHO, we already have the right guy in the White House. Pay attention to Congressional races now--including the primaries--to make sure he gets some help. Otherwise, prepare to be pissed at him for another four years while people on all sides tell you how wrong you are.
 
2011-08-01 01:46:35 AM  

skullkrusher: I dont know what LBGPMC is but it sounds awesome. Can I be the battleship? I always liked the battleship. The car would do too. Just none of that iron shiat. That's for girls


I'm sure. And yes you can be the battleship where you can ignore the laws of physics and not sink in this current economic quagmire. I'll let you. This time.
 
2011-08-01 01:47:06 AM  
All this crap because a bunch of racist idiots can't stand the fact that there is a Brown President.
 
2011-08-01 01:48:26 AM  

whidbey: skullkrusher: I dont know what LBGPMC is but it sounds awesome. Can I be the battleship? I always liked the battleship. The car would do too. Just none of that iron shiat. That's for girls

I'm sure. And yes you can be the battleship where you can ignore the laws of physics and not sink in this current economic quagmire. I'll let you. This time.


yay! Just for that I'll let your broke ass stay in my motel on Baltic Ave and I won't even charge you the $60
 
2011-08-01 01:48:51 AM  

Jack's Cracker: Abner Doon:

The difference between them is so small, if this is the best they can do, that I don't even care if they win anymore. I'll just vote for some useless third party and give my money to anyone advocating changing our voting system away from the one that enforces two party rule.

A surefire plan to ensure more of the same kind of extremist nimrods get into office.


And what exactly is your genius plan? The current leaders we have elected have made it perfectly clear they don't give a flying fark about what a majority of the public wants, so how exactly do we go about FORCING the democratic party to endorse a super left-wing candidate? The best shot I believe we have to make a change in the two party system is to elect someone from a different damn party. Someone who is a true lefty democrat and not another Obama who has proven multiple times he is right of the center.
 
2011-08-01 01:49:50 AM  

skullkrusher: whidbey: skullkrusher: I dont know what LBGPMC is but it sounds awesome. Can I be the battleship? I always liked the battleship. The car would do too. Just none of that iron shiat. That's for girls

I'm sure. And yes you can be the battleship where you can ignore the laws of physics and not sink in this current economic quagmire. I'll let you. This time.

yay! Just for that I'll let your broke ass stay in my motel on Baltic Ave and I won't even charge you the $60


I take that back. $60 is the purchase price. A hotel there costs $450! I can't let that slide
 
2011-08-01 01:51:13 AM  

skullkrusher: I take that back. $60 is the purchase price. A hotel there costs $450! I can't let that slide


Don't worry, I'll just bring my tent. I'll set it up in the Rumpus Room.
 
2011-08-01 01:51:14 AM  

whidbey: but I'm still curious as to what logjammin is referring to.


The flipside of the teabaggers. To the teabaggers Obama's ultra lib. the libbiest lib who ever libed. To some of the goofy lefties he's Bush with a tan.

and in both cases, their opinion is based on bullshiat.
 
2011-08-01 01:51:59 AM  
Wow, a lot of people got butt hurt on my last comment. - I didn't say "you need a Ph.D to comment about something" I just think that a lot of people on here like to throw the word "Derp" or "Teabagger" around (with the occasional person throwing "libertard") and have ALOT of opinions about things they Haven't educated themselves on. (or, like my original statement said, a lot of people on here studied economics and politics). Making an informed statment on something you have taken the time to LEARN about is different than listening to your chosen slanted news group (because they are ALL Slanted, just like ALL politicians are politicians, no matter which group they affiliate with) and deciding you know everything then posting about what __(fill-in-the-blank-political-group)__ is doing wrong.

I bet some of the same people who are saying "blah, blah teabaggers. blah blah derp" are the same ones that go into the Casey Anthony threads and tell people they're dumb for listening to Nancy Grace.

I'm sure there are people on here that do know what they're talking about when it comes to this topic, I would Not guess that the Majority of farkers have bothered to Actually Educate themselves beyond the evening news or fark articles/threads before saying what is wrong. But the beauty of the internet (fark in particular) is that you don't have to know jack shiat about something to voice your opinion.
 
2011-08-01 01:54:27 AM  

Girl_Friday_19: Wow, a lot of people got butt hurt on my last comment. - I didn't say "you need a Ph.D to comment about something" I just think that a lot of people on here like to throw the word "Derp" or "Teabagger" around (with the occasional person throwing "libertard") and have ALOT of opinions about things they Haven't educated themselves on.


So what? I didn't realize there was going to be a quiz later.

Lighten up. This is a loose informal discussion, not "Go to the Head of the Class."
 
2011-08-01 01:55:42 AM  

whidbey: Girl_Friday_19: Wow, a lot of people got butt hurt on my last comment. - I didn't say "you need a Ph.D to comment about something" I just think that a lot of people on here like to throw the word "Derp" or "Teabagger" around (with the occasional person throwing "libertard") and have ALOT of opinions about things they Haven't educated themselves on.

So what? I didn't realize there was going to be a quiz later.

Lighten up. This is a loose informal discussion, not "Go to the Head of the Class."


or Trivial Pursuit if we're sticking with the board game theme
 
2011-08-01 01:55:43 AM  

log_jammin: I think I'm gonna have to ignore politics for awhile. I could handle the retards on the right just fine, and they're kinda fun to smack around. but the sudden influx of retards on the left is just a little too much to handle.


I lol'd.
 
2011-08-01 01:58:33 AM  

whidbey: What would happen if we really did get a gung-ho progressive in office?


I think you guys would benefit from centering up a little, but my opinion is not mainstream.

I think the people going after Social Security are missing a huge part of the point with that. It was implemented to help people feel like they didn't have to be the terminus for all money that came into their possession, to keep the money flowing. To assure them that if they contributed to the economy now buy buying things and keeping jobs growing, they'd have a safety net at the end of their lives.

I could go on about other things I think the myopic right wing is missing, but I have a feeling I'm preaching to the choir.
 
2011-08-01 01:59:05 AM  

Girl_Friday_19: I lol'd.


Actually, I hope your profile's just a troll.
 
2011-08-01 02:01:58 AM  

whidbey: So what? I didn't realize there was going to be a quiz later.

Lighten up. This is a loose informal discussion, not "Go to the Head of the Class."


I'm light. I started out saying that I didn't know enough about the situation to comment on if the agreement was good or bad and that I bet most people on here also don't know a whole lot about it. people got pissed about that... people can post whatever they want. I was just saying - eh, nevermind. it feels like I'm getting into an internet arguement and I don't care that much. :) Carry on.
 
2011-08-01 02:02:10 AM  

organizm: [blogs.venturacountystar.com image 540x373]


/I never get tired of this
//And I ain't saying Obama is no Clinton either


True enough, organizm. Obama is only half black.
 
2011-08-01 02:02:11 AM  

Mors: whidbey: What would happen if we really did get a gung-ho progressive in office?

I think you guys would benefit from centering up a little, but my opinion is not mainstream.


How so? Didn't we have our little "centering up" session under Clinton?

If "centering up" means continuing to sh*t on the less fortunate of this country and continue to ignore our problems to favor big business, can't really say I'm interested.
 
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