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(Yahoo)   Christian terrorists? In my country? It's more likely than you think   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 456
    More: Followup, American College of Sofia, enlisted man, Foundation for Defense of Democracies, Islamic scholars, Oklahoma City Bombing, Norway, Christian terrorism, Alex Pareene  
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12805 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jul 2011 at 11:40 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-07-31 06:19:18 PM
*yawn* Christian Terrorism in the United States is nothing new. Tim McVeigh waves hi from hell.
 
2011-07-31 07:19:59 PM
Don't forget the rabid anti-abortionists who firebomb clinics and murder doctors in the name of "life."
 
2011-07-31 07:30:16 PM
Christianist extremism sucks.
 
2011-07-31 07:37:56 PM

Bucky Katt: Christianist extremism sucks.

 
2011-07-31 09:16:27 PM
But you repeat yourself

/ducks
 
2011-07-31 09:36:43 PM
"Breivik is not a Christian. That's impossible. No one believing in Jesus commits mass murder," Bill O'Reilly said

We'll just forget about those pesky crusades, inquisitions and witch burnings.

This thing is getting more "No True Scotsman"s than a Braveheart battle scene.
 
2011-07-31 09:39:10 PM
Not all Muslims theists are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims theists.
 
2011-07-31 09:43:35 PM
Except that he was nominally xian (in the loosest of sense, and only on a cultural level, not a deeply held theological belief) and that what he did was not motivated by religion but rather xenophobia.

The man is a white supremacist who believers Europe to white Europeans of xian descent, the Middle-East to Arabs, and so on.

The man also believes that America has a Jewish problem* and that all Jews should be sent to Israel, and that what the Nazis were doing would have been alright if they had just stuck us in Israel.

He was a participant on Nordisk where he raved about White Culture and White Race, he posted on Stormfront, and so on.

This crime is not akin to a xian bombing an abortion clinic. This is akin to a skinhead bombing an MLK parade.
 
2011-07-31 09:48:11 PM

servoled: Not all Muslims theists are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims theists.


Ah yes indeed. Like the theist part of marxist terrorist groups.

Oh, those Baader-Meinhof scoundrels and PLFP clowns!
 
2011-07-31 09:52:44 PM
 
2011-07-31 10:00:36 PM

servoled: Not all Muslims theists are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims theists.


Yeah, like the Baader-Mei-

Tatsuma: Baader-Meinhof


Goddammit. Yeah, like the ELF and Weather Underground.

Terrorism serves ideologies. That theism is chock full of 'em is only incidental.
 
2011-07-31 10:06:54 PM

Tatsuma: This crime is not akin to a xian bombing an abortion clinic.


Fine. Then can we talk about the actual bombing of an "abortion clinic"(a Planned Parenthood office which offers no abortion services), which everyone seems to be ignoring (including FARK, which redlit this.)
 
2011-07-31 10:09:27 PM

Tatsuma: America has a Jewish problem


Anders Breivik frequently recommended people like Pamela Geller. Shes Jewish and is rather conservative. Here's Pamela Geller's stance on Israel.
Breivik's own words.
Jews that support multiculturalism today are as much of a threat to Israel and Zionism (Israeli nationalism) as they are to us. So let us fight together with Israel, with our Zionist brothers against all anti-Zionists, against all cultural Marxists/multiculturalists. Conservative Jews were loyal to Europe and should have been rewarded. Instead, he just targeted them all... So, are the current Jews in Europe and US disloyal? The multiculturalist (nation-wrecking) Jews ARE while the conservative Jews ARE NOT. Aprox. 75% of European/US Jews support multiculturalism while aprox. 50% of Israeli Jews does the same. This shows very clearly that we must embrace the remaining loyal Jews as brothers rather than repeating the mistake of the NSDAP. Whenever I discuss the Middle East issue with a national socialist he presents the anti-Israeli and pro-Palestine argument. He always seem unaware of the fact that his propaganda is hurting Israeli nationalists (who want to deport the Muslims from Israel) and that he is in fact helping the Israeli cultural Marxists/multiculturalists with his argumentation... Never target a Jew because he is a Jew, but rather because he is a category A or B traitor. And don't forget that the bulk of the category A and B traitors are Christian Europeans. 90% of the category A and B traitors in my own country, Norway, are Nordic, Christian category A and B traitors.
He appears to really like the ethnocentric immigration policies of the Jewish State, and approves of conservative leaning Jewish people.
 
2011-07-31 10:10:53 PM
DEATH TO ALL FANATICS!
 
2011-07-31 10:12:52 PM

Therion: DEATH TO ALL FANATICS!


Y'know, you could just say, "PROBABLE DEATH TO MOST FANATICS," and be internally consistent.
 
2011-07-31 10:26:40 PM

Lorelle: Don't forget the rabid anti-abortionists who firebomb clinics and murder doctors in the name of "life."


And how upsetting it was when all the Christians took to the streets and partied when that happened.

I'll never forget how the Pope came out and said it was a great strike against the evil Satan.

Good times.
 
2011-07-31 10:32:13 PM
Short men with a small amount of power and religious fanatics are dangerous people.
 
2011-07-31 10:34:08 PM
Having been brought up Methodist, I can vouch for the terror part.
 
2011-07-31 10:41:13 PM

Therion: DEATH TO ALL FANATICS!


That's kind of a fanatical position.
 
2011-07-31 10:44:41 PM
And Pamela Geller seems to want a monolithic concept of Judaism. That's akin to deciding who is or isn't a Catholic.
 
2011-07-31 10:45:37 PM
Why am I not surprised to see Tats making excuses for a terrorist?
 
2011-07-31 10:47:42 PM

propasaurus: Why am I not surprised to see Tats making excuses for a terrorist?


You want to point out where he did that?
 
2011-07-31 10:50:50 PM

Tatsuma: This crime is not akin to a xian bombing an abortion clinic. This is akin to a skinhead

KKK member bombing an MLK parade.

FTFY.
 
2011-07-31 10:54:52 PM
For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.
 
2011-07-31 10:59:04 PM

Occam's Chainsaw: Bucky Katt: Christianist extremism sucks.


[bearsrepeating.jpg]
 
2011-07-31 11:00:22 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.


Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.
 
2011-07-31 11:00:31 PM
Basically the man has been called both 'a fierce Zionist' and a 'Xian extremist' in the press. I will present my manifesto to show it's not the case. I will call it

2011: A Declaration of Boredom While Waiting for Breaking Bad


Question: Is he a philosemite and zionist?

From his Tolstoy:

Q: Are you a holocaust denier?
A: Assuming of course that you are referring to the Jewish holocaust under Nazi
Germany; no, I have reviewed the evidence, both the evidence presented by the Allied
powers and the anti-holocaust evidence presented by the Axis Powers and neo-Nazi
movements. I don't find the anti-holocaust evidence credible so I don't see a reason why
anyone should deny the Jewish holocaust. As far as I have understood; Nazi Germany
didn't originally want to annihilate the Jews.
They were considering deportation but they
didn't really have any location to deport them to, and they weren't offered any location
by the allied forces. They didn't start massacring the Jews until after they realised that
they were losing the war
and the window of opportunity was closing fast (after the failed
Russian invasion in1941). I guess, they used the following logic; they felt they had to cut
out what they viewed as a cancer before they lost the war somewhat like many Serbs did
during the Balkan war. They wanted to deport but as their adversaries made that
impossible they chose the only solution
(according to their logic). No one should try to
justify genocide, it is a bad thing that cannot or should not be excused. There are always
other options.


Which is then followed by 'Well no on should try to justify genocide'.

The man defends Nazi ideology and the Nazi state while giving lip-service to the idea that hey killing people is bad, and that 80% of today's neo-Nazis are not really Nazis and just swell people that need to be offered a banner to unite under.

He then goes on to say that his big problem with the Holocaust is that people then ignore massacres by Muslims and that

Furthermore, while I oppose deniers of the Jewish holocaust I realise that the "holocaust
religion" is an extremely destructive force in Europe. Today, European youths are
systematically brainwashed and made into pacifist eunuchs (school classes being bussed
to former concentration camps and taught to reject their culture, pride etc.). Our elites,
backed by the EUSSR/USASSR cultural hegemony, are stripping away any sense of pride
and honor from European youths in a deliberate scheme to feminise/pacify them in order
to prevent future Nazi movements from emerging. The problem here is that we are left
with little to none cultural defenses against any force which would want to conquer us.


and then he talks about how people need to be stopped from talking about the Holocaust and instead talk about the 300 million of people massacred by Muslims instead.

He also talks about a Jewish oligarchy in Russia, how Jews are thrifty, how we only hang around with each others and do business with each others at the detriment of our host society, think we're better than Europeans, that as a whole we are the biggest supporters of multiculturalism and turning Europe into Eurabia. That Jews support all this to further pro-Israel feelings, that that while Jews disporportionally support it, 'that doesn't mean all of them are our enemies'. He also states he has no qualms about killing Jews, but hey at least it's not because we're Jews, it's just because we're marxist multiculturalist killing Europe.

He also says this to Nazis:

However, we have certain things in common that shouldn't be underestimated.

We share the same anti -EU, -UN and -immigration/multiculturalism (Muslim immigration
at least) sentiments and the goal of "preserving European traditions, culture etc" which is
the primary reason why more and more ex-NS people are conforming and joining the
new "European right".

As a message to those hardcore NS's who are simply unable to compromise; Conform
and join our armed struggle against the European cultural Marxists/multiculturalists (the
enablers of the Islamisation of Europe), or continue to be sidelined and marginalised.
Multiculturalism is the hole in the dike. Islam is the water pouring in. Everything else
should be irrelevant. Your "Jew" obsession is undermining your own struggle against
multiculturalism.


But yeah at least he doesn't believe in wholesale genocide, just kicking us out of Europe to Israel to avoid multiculturalism and marxism

If the NSDAP had been isolationistic instead of imperialistic(expansionist) and just deported the Jews (to a liberated and Muslim free Zion) instead of massacring them, the anti-European hate ideology known as multiculturalism would have never been institutionalized in Western Europe, because the Marxists would never have been so radicalized to begin with

Oh and the Nazis would have been swell if they had just behaved that way.

Oh and when he says he wants us in Israel, it's under xian control where they get half of Jerusalem, we get the other half, and they rebuild the Temple and we're allowed to be there with them.

And this goes on and on and on. We are useful idiots for him, not worthy of real independence in our country, not worthy of living in Europe or America (hey, the Jewish problem in America has to be resolved through mass deportation too) but at least he's gracious enough not to kill us

Well, not most of us, all the multiculturalist and marxist Jews are fair game, though.


Conclusions
So, yeah, Anders Brevik, biggest philo-semite of 2011.
Zionist? Yes, I would say he is zionist, in the same way he is a philo-semite. We are useful tools, good enough to be used as we seemingly share a purpose (we don't). 70 years ago, he would have been manning the ovens.



Question: Is a Xian?

I believe these quotes speak for themselves

As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe."

"I went from moderately agnostic to moderately religious."


Asked what he envisioned a perfect Europe to be, he answered

"'Logic' and rationalist thought (a certain degree of national Darwinism) should be the fundament [sic] of our societies. I support the propagation of collective rational thought but not necessarily on a personal level."

Which sounds definitely closer to National Socialism than anything else.

Why did he choose to use xian symbols?

"My choice has nothing to do with the fact that I am not proud of my own traditions and heritage. My choice was based purely pragmatism. All Europeans are in this boat together, so we must choose a more moderate platform that can appeal to a great number of Europeans - preferably up to 50 percent (realistically up to 35 percent)."

Why a Templar Knight?

"As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus," he writes. "Being a Christian can mean many things; That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity - Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reason is the primary source and legitimacy for authority). It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a 'Christian fundamentalist theocracy' (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don't need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation [sic] but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order."

So a secular society, and agnostic and atheist xians.

He also states that he has doubt about whether G-d exists, that he has never prayed or felt the need to pray, that he partied with two hookers and booze before going on a rampage and so on.

Verdict: Is he a xian?

Yes-ish. In the loosest of term, mostly a cultural and barely religious xian. He was not motivated by xianity, he was motivated by a white Europe that had its roots in the past, which happened to be xian. His crimes were not for the glory of xiandom, they were to remove multiculturalists, marxists and muslims for Europe.

Conclusion


70 years ago, the man would have been a Nazi, today his hate has moved on from Jews to Muslims. He is not a xian terrorist if we use that term to describe people who commit terrorism in the name of xianity on a theological level, and he is not a zionist, as he believes that Israel should be under shared control with the church, and that Jews should be kicked out of Europe and are the root cause of today's problems with the Muslim population.

He is the culmination of the 'white separatist' and 'white nationalist' movement. The next time you hear or read someone say 'I am not a racist, I just believe that Arabs belong to Africa and Americans in America and Mexicans in Mexico', this man shares a ideological position with Brevik.

Also, death to Nazis.


/Now I can go watch Breaking Bad. Thank G-d.
 
2011-07-31 11:04:30 PM

abb3w: FTFY.


No, the guy is a National Alliance nazi and I remember associations with skinheads as well.

simplicimus: You want to point out where he did that?


Well of course if I point out he did this out of racial hatred and xenophobia, it automatically makes it better

keep up, mate.

simplicimus: Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.


Heck, when someone bombs an abortion clinic out of religious belief, that's xian terrorism. I have no qualms labelling it like that.

It's not what happened in Oslo though.
 
2011-07-31 11:12:20 PM

Tatsuma: abb3w: FTFY.

No, the guy is a National Alliance nazi and I remember associations with skinheads as well.

simplicimus: You want to point out where he did that?

Well of course if I point out he did this out of racial hatred and xenophobia, it automatically makes it better

keep up, mate.

simplicimus: Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.

Heck, when someone bombs an abortion clinic out of religious belief, that's xian terrorism. I have no qualms labelling it like that.

It's not what happened in Oslo though.


Never said there weren't Christian terrorists. And propaganda artists like Mel Gibson. I read what you posted from the guy. Not seeing a coherent thought process.
 
2011-07-31 11:13:32 PM

simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.

Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.


Case in point.
 
2011-07-31 11:15:16 PM

simplicimus: Never said there weren't Christian terrorists. And propaganda artists like Mel Gibson. I read what you posted from the guy. Not seeing a coherent thought process.


Oh I know, I was referring to the comment that some people refuse to admit that some terrorism is religiously-motivated

simplicimus: I read what you posted from the guy. Not seeing a coherent thought process.


Well that's just bits and pieces. In his psychopathy, he IS mostly coherent. Just incredibly hateful and disgusting.

To be fair it's much more fun to read and less tedious than Mein Kampf.
 
2011-07-31 11:28:26 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.

Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.

Case in point.


Yeah. Watched one of the nut bag TV preachers after 9/11 explaining how it was just to kill for Jesus. That's not in my Bible.
 
2011-07-31 11:29:53 PM
The only thing remotely interesting about Christian terrorists is the lengths that "normal" Christians will go to pretend they don't exist or their actions are warranted in some way
 
2011-07-31 11:30:46 PM

simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.

Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.

Case in point.

Yeah. Watched one of the nut bag TV preachers after 9/11 explaining how it was just to kill for Jesus. That's not in my Bible.


You watch televangelists?

HAHAHAHAHAH
 
2011-07-31 11:33:47 PM

Agent Nick Fury: simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: simplicimus: Benevolent Misanthrope: For reasons passing understanding, people steadfastly refuse to associate religion with crimes committed in the name of religion.

Because there are nut bags in all monotheistic religions. They don't represent the majority of their faith.

Case in point.

Yeah. Watched one of the nut bag TV preachers after 9/11 explaining how it was just to kill for Jesus. That's not in my Bible.

You watch televangelists?

HAHAHAHAHAH


Was just scrolling through the cable channels when I came across this. Normally don't. Why does G-d need money? Or a starship?
 
2011-07-31 11:34:29 PM
The majority of religious people have never killed another person, nor would, except in self-defense.

Breivik was more into politics than religion. Though he grew more religious towards the end of his manifesto. It's ridiculous to think of him primarily as a Christian extremist or Christian terrorist.

That's not to say that there aren't Christian terrorists. There was Eric Rudolph, there was the guy that murdered abortion doctor Dr. Tiller. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. They have killed in the name of Christianity. Religion is their prime motivation. There's also a Christian militia out there called the Hutaree. I don't know if they've killed yet, but they're pretty out there.

But Breivik was not primarily religiously motivated. It was more of an anti-Islam, anti-multiculturalism, anti-Leftist thing he had going. Let's not blame religion for one guy's insane violence.
 
2011-07-31 11:43:43 PM

Peter von Nostrand: The only thing remotely interesting about Christian terrorists is the lengths that "normal" Christians will go to pretend they don't exist or their actions are warranted in some way


Well, as a Catholic, I can't speak for the other Christians, but there seems to be a lot of hate coming from the other (heretic) christians. They just don't want to own up to speech has consequences.
 
2011-07-31 11:43:52 PM

servoled: Not all Muslims theists are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims theists.


citation plz
 
2011-07-31 11:45:46 PM

shivashakti: The majority of religious people have never killed another person, nor would, except in self-defense.

Breivik was more into politics than religion. Though he grew more religious towards the end of his manifesto. It's ridiculous to think of him primarily as a Christian extremist or Christian terrorist.

That's not to say that there aren't Christian terrorists. There was Eric Rudolph, there was the guy that murdered abortion doctor Dr. Tiller. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. They have killed in the name of Christianity. Religion is their prime motivation. There's also a Christian militia out there called the Hutaree. I don't know if they've killed yet, but they're pretty out there.

But Breivik was not primarily religiously motivated. It was more of an anti-Islam, anti-multiculturalism, anti-Leftist thing he had going. Let's not blame religion for one guy's insane violence.


After the first paragraph I was just about to say 'this guy knows his shiat'......

But no, if you are truly a religious person murder has no purpose in your life.

You may claim the reason you commited said murder was based on religious beliefs but no, you are a delusional psychopath.

It's very easy to blame abortion doctor killings on religion but there is usually another underlying reason beside religion that makes someone do what they do.

What religion was Jeffrey Dahmer or Son of Sam?

It just so happens that as a society we need to slap labels on people to understand them when, in reality, there is no reason.
 
2011-07-31 11:48:21 PM
If religion never again takes credit as being responsible for good things people do, ill stop attempting to hold it accountable when murderers quote Scripture as reason for their killing.
 
2011-07-31 11:49:14 PM

Kirk's_Toupee: servoled: Not all Muslims theists are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims theists.

citation plz


probably none. From what I've gathered, Jews and Christians are people of the Book, so we can be slaves, but not killed.
 
2011-07-31 11:49:59 PM
The number of christians who have blown things up I can count on one hand. Good luck with the religion of peace. What does it average worldwide, one a week?
 
2011-07-31 11:50:28 PM
OMG Christian terrorists!

Link (new window)
 
2011-07-31 11:50:51 PM

Occam's Chainsaw: Goddammit. Yeah, like the ELF and Weather Underground.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-07-31 11:51:19 PM
"The Terrorist is hiding behind christianity. GET HIM!!!!"


/Religion : Killing people who are different, since some nutjob had a Stroke(brain damage) and invented Religion.

//Christians : Gullible minds just ripe for molding in HATES IMAGE.
 
2011-07-31 11:51:21 PM

hardinparamedic: *yawn* Christian Terrorism in the United States is nothing new. Tim McVeigh waves hi from hell.


McVeigh wasn't a Christian.
 
2011-07-31 11:51:23 PM

astouffer: The number of christians who have blown things up I can count on one hand. Good luck with the religion of peace. What does it average worldwide, one a week?


You can't count past five period then eh?
 
2011-07-31 11:51:29 PM

shivashakti: But Breivik was not primarily religiously motivated. It was more of an anti-Islam, anti-multiculturalism, anti-Leftist thing he had going. Let's not blame religion for one guy's insane violence.


Let's take this point as true.

He was still influenced by all of the Muslim hate out there, much of that done by Christians. While sane people see hateful rhetoric as just a colorful tool to get peaceful political change, the insane people take that as a command to kill. And that's the problem with hateful rhetoric.
 
2011-07-31 11:52:33 PM
Are religious people crazy or are crazy people religious?
 
2011-07-31 11:52:44 PM

astouffer: The number of christians who have blown things up I can count on one hand. Good luck with the religion of peace. What does it average worldwide, one a week?


Hiroshima on line one. Please hold. Nagasaki on line two. Please hold. Dresden on line three. Please hold.
 
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