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(CorporateMofo)   Why you shouldn't buy any more CDs until RIAA stops using the DMCA to ruin peoples' lives   (corporatemofo.com) divider line 284
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30930 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Sep 2003 at 3:19 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-09-08 04:08:42 PM  
Has anyone here heard about the EFF's searchable database for recently subpoena'd p2p users being a ploy used by the RIAA to obtain user's names?
 
2003-09-08 04:10:13 PM  
i'd recommend xm radio. its a biatcheaper per month, and signed with better names (pioneer, alpine and sony).
 
2003-09-08 04:12:38 PM  
Hey, maybe we can go back to the days where the only way musicians made money was by actually playing live concerts, and keeping the take? I seem to see lots of local bands that do quite fine without cd's.
 
2003-09-08 04:12:44 PM  
upon reading the list of record labels under the thumbs of the RIAA I realize that they own nearly all of the labels in the world. isn't this considered a monopoly?
 
2003-09-08 04:13:15 PM  
electra et al,

Ok, I'm going to try and make this as simple as possible:

File-sharing is not stealing. To look at it from a technological standpoint, imagine this:

You have a technology that would allow you to create, from nothing more than electricity, a BMW. If you created a thousand of these BMWs and gave them to people, would you be stealing? No.

Theft requires you to take property or services from another person or organization. Simply making a copy of what they produce doesn't fit the definition of theft.

Now, using common sense, if file sharing was theft, you could expect the RIAA to file criminal felony charges, rather than simple civil suits. A felony conviction farks you over much more than these $12k settlements.

The RIAA is going to nail these people for whatever they can. Even they realize that it's not theft, so they're not pursuing charges of theft.

I'm not saying that file-sharing is any more ethical than theft, but there is a difference between the two, and people need to recognize that fact.
 
2003-09-08 04:13:42 PM  
The typical budget for most major label releases (not huge releases with past successful pop artists with a string of producers) are between two and three hundred thousand dollars. This is for studio costs, marketing, and distribution ( and to be more specific- cutting a video, ads in Spin, NME, etc. Pushing a single into radio,......)
What's never mentioned are the bands that only sell 10,000 albums and that major has lost money for releasing the album. Is this right, wrong, I dunno. Their business model certainly could use some refinements, but stop getting all self righteous because 'stickin it to the man' cuz at the end of the day, it's stealing music.

Also, P2P sharing is rarely done so people will get turned on to NOFX or Fugazi (both of which I love), it's to steal the new 50 Cent or Limp Bizkit CD so you don't have to pay for it. Generally speaking.
 
2003-09-08 04:14:38 PM  
naoise: you're all just lying to yourselves when you think that stealing music doesn't hurt anyone. steal radiohead, don't steal the up and comers.

yeah, because stealing from the rich is always okay. i love it when people try to make a moral argument and it ends up at some idiotic place like this.
 
2003-09-08 04:15:12 PM  
[b]KyngNothing[\b]

satellite radio...very good idea. I have had XM for a while now, the $10/mo is well worth it
 
2003-09-08 04:16:57 PM  
how about a model where we buy music only from the artist themelves. of course I am sure for cutting out the middle man there would be a lawsuit like monopoly or something lie that. still, it is worth a shot.

I only sell mine directly, of couse that is not hard when you only sell one a year.

as for peep to peer. really nothing I want, or dont have. now the only time I do that is when I remember a cd I had that was stolen (so I still have the right, in theroy) to downlaod it and listen to it. but of course that would be a nother lawsuit
 
2003-09-08 04:17:40 PM  
I'm not worried about artists like avril lavigne, that's not what the problem is, the problem is with artists like bogdan raczynski who have lots of script kiddie fans who download his full albums and share it with their friends, and he makes MUCH LESS MONEY BECAUSE OF IT.

He is not a rich musician.

He is a poor musician.


99.999% of musicians are poor. In fact, most musicians work odd jobs to support what they do. It's a bummer that he's gettin' ripped off, but he should be happy that people are out there spreading the gospel of his work. It may pay off for him in the long run.

Anyone know if epitaph or fat wreck are part of the riaa? Not that it matters, i'll still buy stuff off both of those lables, because they're some of the few that still put out decent music.

Considering Fat Mike from NOFX runs the label, I doubt Fat Wreck has any association with them. I also doubt that Mr. Brett of Epitaph fame associates with them either. They both probably have distribution deals through major label distributors (allowing their CDs to sell in the mall, etc.), but I doubt they allow this to influence how they run their businesses.
 
2003-09-08 04:17:53 PM  
whether or not you wank to the girls jumping on trampolines during the "Man Show" credits

There's guys that actually wank to chicks on trampolines?
 
2003-09-08 04:18:08 PM  
purecoda

will someone who has the information do a breakdown of the cost of making a cd, its selling price, and the distribution of the profit, please?


I don't know exactly, but I can buy a recordable CD for what, 10 cents???

So, that's not it.

It's my understanding that the artists get about 10% (again, who knows? It depends upon the artist, I suppose)

Shipping and other manufacturing and production costs probably make the whole CD cost less than $3. (again, depends on how many are made, etc, etc)

The big cost would seem to be marketing. That's why you have the big "stars" today as Britney, JLo, etc. This crap barely passes as music, it certainly isn't very creative, but it IS well marketed.

/It's like Microsoft! As a matter of fact, we probably have Microsoft to blame for a lot of the poor music today. They proved that you don't have to have a great product, just great marketing.

/Try as I might, I can't figure out a way to blame this on George W. Bush. Oh, well.
 
2003-09-08 04:20:07 PM  
i have GOT to go get me one of these CD player things and see what the fuss is all about. i hear you can't play them on both sides like on my albums.
 
2003-09-08 04:20:32 PM  
Buy XM or other sat. radio and give more money to the RIAA.

I'm a musician.

When I buy a CDR to put my music on, THAT I WROTE, who DO I PAY? The RIAA.

When a 'net radio station picks up one of my songs and plays it, who do THEY pay? The RIAA. They pay to play MY FARKING MUSIC, AND I WILL NEVER SEE A CENT.

ANY - ABSOLUTELY ANY - MEANS USED TO HURT THE RIAA ARE JUSTIFIED.
 
2003-09-08 04:22:12 PM  
zoopc.com,

how about a model where we buy music only from the artist themelves. of course I am sure for cutting out the middle man there would be a lawsuit like monopoly or something lie that. still, it is worth a shot.

I think the closest we'll ever get to that is Itunes or whatever MS comes out with in the next year. In order for individual artists to be able to sell their albums on a shoe-string advertising budget, they'll have to be in a huge widely accessed database of music, such as Itunes.

And, if Itunes allows artists to sell their music directly through Itunes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the big-name bands deciding not to renew their contract with the labels.

Let's face it. Aerosmith could simply put a news item on their website about an upcoming album, and the news of it would spread like wildfire. Only now, instead of getting a dollar for every CD sold as per their current contract, they could get about $0.50 for every song sold on Itunes. They'd come out much better financially.
 
2003-09-08 04:22:23 PM  
speaking of bush, does anyone know WHY he's asking for more money in iraq... aka what will WE THE PEOPLE get from giving more money? correct me if i'm wrong, but gas prices have been going UP, not down. somebody help me out here.
 
2003-09-08 04:22:31 PM  
According to the RIAA's website and what appears to be their year end sale's summary, although music sales have declined since 2002, the average cost per unit has increased every year since 1996.
 
2003-09-08 04:22:34 PM  
walt disney co in collusion with bribed govt officials have violated copyright law by unfairly extending protection for a certain mouse by more than a decade.

not that i really care wether mickey is public domain or not, but simply because he is still profitable does NOT exclude him from the law...

the RIAA chooses when to follow the law & when not to, why cant I? because i dont own any senators?

to the RIAA, hold up your side of the copyright bargain, & i'll uphold mine.

who am i stealing from anyway when i download some Billie Holiday? Louis Armstrong? Just whos creativity am i stifling?

does this mean my children & grandchildren get to keep collecting my social security checks for 70+ years after i die?
 
2003-09-08 04:22:35 PM  
Glad I kept my 8-Trax. EW&F, here I come!
 
2003-09-08 04:23:39 PM  
Telling me to boycott the RIAA because of their political/economical corruption is like telling me to not drink raw sewage because the ducks poop in it.

/bad analogy
 
2003-09-08 04:24:04 PM  
Does anyone offer an annual fee/unlimited download kind of deal?
 
2003-09-08 04:24:39 PM  
2003-09-08 03:51:53 PM Leonard_Cohen
I'm surprised no one is going after newsgroups, the downloads are way quicker than any P2P I've used.
Unknown_Poltroon
You brought u a good point, whats the deal with a DVD being cheaper than the damn soundtrack?
I will buy a DVD but not a CD, ever.

and then later you said..........
LonnieD2
check this out

Big Fat Greek Wedding DVD: $27.99 Canadian$

Big Fat GReek Wedding Soundtrack: $23.99 Canadian$

$4 Dollar difference is pretty significant...

Not to sound like a jerk, but I'm not sure exactly what your point is, because you seem to be contradicting what you said earlier about a DVD being cheaper than a CD.
Soundtracks are not a good comparison for the two industries because they are usually compilations which both the movie studio and the distributing label have to license the songs from the various artists and their different labels. My point was specifically the difference in a studio like Miramax releasing their film and Radiohead coming out with a new album.
 
2003-09-08 04:25:26 PM  
I bought a cd with Mozart on it about three years ago, should I feel bad?

Damn, I don't even listen to music on the radio and I end up hating the RIAA*. Where is the humanity here?

Well, maybe in the next life I won't be able to hear the off-key crap that passes for music, maybe I will be born tone-deaf.

*Not half as much as I hate Disney, that asshole Hollings, and the DMCA crap.
 
2003-09-08 04:30:26 PM  
yeah, amerika is toast.

death to amerika
death to israel
 
2003-09-08 04:30:36 PM  
2003-09-08 04:13:15 PM SchlingFo
electra et al,

Ok, I'm going to try and make this as simple as possible:

File-sharing is not stealing. To look at it from a technological standpoint, imagine this:

You have a technology that would allow you to create, from nothing more than electricity, a BMW. If you created a thousand of these BMWs and gave them to people, would you be stealing? No.


Yes you are, since most of what makes a BMW a BMW instead of a Chevy (and by extension, what makes Moby's music Moby's and not Eminem's) is protected by patents and/or corporate-developed and protected knowledge (in the music world, copyrights).

Theft requires you to take property or services from another person or organization. Simply making a copy of what they produce doesn't fit the definition of theft.

You are taking their property, though it's not necessarily a tangible object. It's called their intellectual property, and that is what patents, trademarks, and copyrights are supposed to protect.

Since I haven't followed the details of the "case" closely, have the artists and/or labels given RIAA authority to discover violations and take action to prevent loss, or is the RIAA just doing this for craps and giggles?
 
2003-09-08 04:31:38 PM  
rather than trying to figure out which labels from a list are RIAA members, I use this. It's right next to amazon on my bookmark bar.
 
2003-09-08 04:32:29 PM  
perisoft

I thought BMI and ASCAP collected their artists' royalties from radio stations. Why would net radio stations pay RIAA?
 
2003-09-08 04:32:57 PM  
by: spleef420

upon reading the list of record labels under the thumbs of the RIAA I realize that they own nearly all of the labels in the world. isn't this considered a monopoly?

Just to clear things up, the RIAA doesn't own any record labels, they are more like a trade organization, or a union.
 
2003-09-08 04:33:03 PM  
Its a failing battle because your copyrighting something like Music. Sound isnt exactly the most substantial of things. The whole its not stealing because I "copied" it comes to mind. To say that to have the luxury to listen to something you like on a whim you must compensate the maker is a bit of gray area.

Also we as a group of people are the ones who decide what is right and what is wrong. Suddenly you have some many millions of people downloading music and enjoying it guilt free. Since when was morality decided by so few people, and the people who profit most.

The RIAA after all acts like the distribution network for artists. They promote this people and help them sell their music. Getting them radio time, billboards, and even managed a whole quasi TV network ironically called Music Television. Now you have a world wide communication network and suddenly reaching all those previously unvisitable fans becomes extrodinarily easy. The RIAA suddenly seems less and less like a nessicary cost of operation, and the RIAA knows it.
 
2003-09-08 04:33:09 PM  
It's a cliche, but it works: If a product is any good, you shouldn't have to advertise.

Some of the best music I've listened to in the last 5 years came from recommendations. In those cases, I have no problem shelling out the cash for the cd.
 
2003-09-08 04:33:48 PM  
Dear RIAA:

Fight the loss of income at the SOURCE! If money made on album sales goes primarily to recoup the artist's debt accumulated primarily from STUDIO TIME, then here's an idea...

Use Pro Tools.

/end of story. No more spending $300,000 - $1,000,000 for a month of studio time. Could cut it down to a couple grand.
 
2003-09-08 04:35:32 PM  
I'd like to point something out about this thread. Corporate Mofo, a TotalFarker no less, posted in the thread.

Wil Wheaton is a TotalFarker as well, so anytime there's a Wheaton link, you can count on him to post in the thread. Or at least to be ripped apart BY the thread, since Crushing Wesley is Fark's national sport...something even the rugby and football factions around here can agree on.

Now, let's see a user named "AskMen" join TotalFark. And for those of you wondering, I'm not a TotalFarker because PayPal and I have certain, umm...disagreements about the honesty of their business, so I can't pay Drew. If Mr. Curtis and friends find an alternate method of payment, I'll join TotalFark...and if Drew cares enough about my annual sixty bucks to put in a special payment system that will doubtless cost a couple of hundred times that, I'll wonder about his sanity. But I digress.

/rock on, Corporate Mofo. Great article, and TRIPLE fark the RIAA, Jacque_Schtrapp.
 
2003-09-08 04:35:48 PM  
well good ole Ken is preaching to the choir here. I flatly refuse to buy anything that the RIAA endorses or benefits from. since I live in Nashville I go to a lot of shows and do buy CD's. but they are localy made (usually on the artists home pc)and benefit the band that I went out to see. I won't buy any mass market crap that is largly just that - crap. overpriced low quality crap. here's hoping that Lars and the RIAA choke on the harvest of what they continue to sow.
 
2003-09-08 04:35:56 PM  
I've thought this for a long time.

We should increase public awareness. Somebody should make bumperstickers and shirts and stuff. We need a logo for boycotting cds that people will notice and recognize. I want this to work.
 
2003-09-08 04:36:42 PM  
by: perisoft


Buy XM or other sat. radio and give more money to the RIAA.

I'm a musician.

When I buy a CDR to put my music on, THAT I WROTE, who DO I PAY? The RIAA.

When a 'net radio station picks up one of my songs and plays it, who do THEY pay? The RIAA. They pay to play MY FARKING MUSIC, AND I WILL NEVER SEE A CENT.

ANY - ABSOLUTELY ANY - MEANS USED TO HURT THE RIAA ARE JUSTIFIED.



Actually, that money goes to a Performance Rights Organization(PRO), like ASCAP or BMI. They in turn, distribute money to publishing companies. Record Labels only receive money for the mechanical licenses, and the RIAA never receives a cent. The PRO's are kind of shady, but that's a whole other, unrelated argument.
 
2003-09-08 04:37:06 PM  
"jdjoker"

music is unreasonably priced, sure, it's stealing but who cares? life isn't fair, it's time the record companies learned that. nothing is sacred, burn it down, rape and pilliage so far as i'm concerned, i'd pay a reasonable price but there isn't much reasonably priced music. at least i know the "classical" music i buy will be good, if you're buying pop music 95% of it is horrible, even the consumer will admit that. watch the hollow pillars collapse and grin!
 
2003-09-08 04:37:31 PM  
sign this petition if you think the RIAA should go screw themselves.

http://www.petitiononline.com/riaawar/petition.html

it's gettin pretty big.
 
2003-09-08 04:39:18 PM  
The RIAA after all acts like the distribution network for artists. They promote this people and help them sell their music. Getting them radio time, billboards, and even managed a whole quasi TV network ironically called Music Television.

Ummmm... not quite.

The record labels and managers promote artists, not the RIAA.

MTV was not a RIAA invention. Viacom was behind that, and at the time, they were strictly a TV company and not in the music recording business at all. They had no ties to the RIAA.

The RIAA was originally a standards organization to make sure all the vinyl records were recorded a certain way. They later branched out into handing out gold records... now they seem to be branching out into handing out subpoenas.
 
2003-09-08 04:39:33 PM  
IXNAY ON THE EWSGROUPSNAY!
 
2003-09-08 04:39:39 PM  
I'm curious to see what how farkers feel about downloading music that one has previously purchased, i.e.: I bought Frank Zappa's Sheik Yerbouti 20 years ago, is it morally wrong to download it for free 20 years later?

Discuss...
 
2003-09-08 04:40:31 PM  
and take the "what out of that first sentence!

/derrrrrr
 
2003-09-08 04:40:51 PM  
i.e.: I bought Frank Zappa's Sheik Yerbouti 20 years ago, is it morally wrong to download it for free 20 years later?

Yeah, you should have bought Hot Rats :)
 
2003-09-08 04:41:15 PM  
It's hard for me to boycott since the last CD I bought was a used copy of Lauren Hill for my wife back in 1999 (or was it 2000?). The last NEW one I bought was the original Led Zeppelin Boxed Set (one of the 1st ever Boxed Sets???) way-way-WAY back in 1991-1992 (whenever it first came out; I paid $100+ for it). I'll probably never buy another, but only because I'm a slimy leech...
 
2003-09-08 04:43:08 PM  
orange_6

I was uninformed! Where were you when I needed you?
 
2003-09-08 04:44:15 PM  
purecoda

anybody heard the hidden track on one of the old limp bizkit albums...

15 dollars... for a shiny piece of plastic... 15 dollars...


By Les Claypool of Primus... a great little rant he had, and the only reason i bought that damn cd. Durst's a dick, but ya gotta give it to him for letting that track stay on there.
 
2003-09-08 04:44:20 PM  
Actually, seventeenfifty, you can have your cake and eat it too. WZ's last release was on Artemis Records, which isn't on the list of RIAA members.

Half.com works for me for the rest of the stuff I want to buy (which, admittedly, isn't much).

Is there anyone running for office who actually gives a damn about our rights? I'm sick of seeing "my dad was a cotton picker" ads... My mom's still in the trailer park. Big deal. You ain't kin to me, boy.
 
2003-09-08 04:44:53 PM  
You have a technology that would allow you to create, from nothing more than electricity, a BMW. If you created a thousand of these BMWs and gave them to people, would you be stealing? No.

That's so ridiculous, I started to not even answer the damn question.... But, if you insist -Yes, it is. Do you know what patents and copyright laws are?
 
2003-09-08 04:47:08 PM  
jdjoker,

Yes you are, since most of what makes a BMW a BMW instead of a Chevy (and by extension, what makes Moby's music Moby's and not Eminem's) is protected by patents and/or corporate-developed and protected knowledge (in the music world, copyrights).

Theft requires you to take property or services from a person or an organization without their permission. The above examples do not show a person to have taken property or services, and are not theft.

The examples you gave above fall into the realm of copyright infringement, which is not, by U.S. law, considered to be theft. Copyright law covers the using of an idea without the owner's permission. Making a BMW is using an idea without the permission of BMW.

You are taking their property, though it's not necessarily a tangible object. It's called their intellectual property, and that is what patents, trademarks, and copyrights are supposed to protect.

You're unlawfully using their intellectual property, and this has been established to be copyright infringement, not theft.

If you still feel that infringing on a person's idea should be legally defined as theft, then you need to write your congrssmen and get them on it.

But, as it stands, infringing on intellectual property is not theft.
 
2003-09-08 04:49:24 PM  
electra,

Do you know what patents and copyright laws are?

Yes. Making a BMW is illegal. But, it's defined as trademark infringement, not theft.
 
2003-09-08 04:50:43 PM  
Incidentally - the headline's SLIGHTLY misleading. Boycotting the RIAA and ceasing to buy CDs aren't the same thing. The RIAA represents an astounding number of labels, but I was almost equally surprised by how many of my CDs AREN'T from RIAA labels.

More appropriate, perhaps, would just to be careful which stuff you buy.
 
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