InmanRoshi: Boehner completely eschewed the middle and was just talking to his base, basically bragging that he was not willing to compromise on a single item, with an extra helping of "Heh, I told that uppity negro what for" sneering.

I thought it was more "we have come up with multiple bills, some that even the senate has shown interest in, and the President is still blockading us with unrealistic expectations about long-term taxes".

Boners a douchebag liar

Could anything be more disingenuous than Boehner's "Aw shucks, I'm just a simple small business man who came to Washington with my common sense approach to money and budgets, and was down right shocked when I saw how these city slickers and fat cats in Washington handle your taxpayer money!!"

As if nobody remembers he was one of the most influential members of Congress from 2000-2006 who was instrumental in orchestrating two insanely expensive wars, a huge Medicare entitlement add ons, and then the completely reckless and financially irresponsible Bush Tax Cuts that got us into this debt situation?

Now he want's to tell you he's the harbinger of austerity and financial common sense? As if that ridiculous fake tan and capped teeth couldn't make him look like more of a greasy used car salesman.

k-miner: So we should just give the heroin addicts more heroin if they promise to quit tomorrow?

Your attempt at a metaphor was hackneyed, overly-simplistic, and in no way a reflection of anything resembling reality. The TeaOP welcomes you.

k-miner: So we should just give the heroin addicts more heroin if they promise to quit tomorrow?

Go back to comparing the debt with your personal finances. At least that had some coherence.

The Great EZE: k-miner: So we should just give the heroin addicts more heroin if they promise to quit tomorrow?

Your attempt at a metaphor was hackneyed, overly-simplistic, and in no way a reflection of anything resembling reality. The TeaOP welcomes you.

Inspiration. Probably not original. Still, I'm gunna have to save that one for later.

Yes, I vote along party lines, with the Tea-O'-Pee.

tinfoil-hat maggie: Do you have a link, I guess I really am out of the loop since I didn't know POTUS was speaking tonight.
Transcript:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Full+text+Barack+Obama+July+speech+debt+ceilin g +impasse/5157480/story.html
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOu0d1C_niY

InmanRoshi: Could anything be more disingenuous than Boehner's "Aw shucks, I'm just a simple small business man who came to Washington with my common sense approach to money and budgets, and was down right shocked when I saw how these city slickers and fat cats in Washington handle your taxpayer money!!"

He graduated college in 1977. He was elected to congress in 1990. The majority of his career has been spent in Washington, yet he thinks he represents the small businessman. Yeah, right.

tinfoil-hat maggie: Let's say I am convinced by your argument and I am poor but have some money to spend on arms and amunition. What should I buy?
/I still don't believe the dept ceiling is Constitutional and I wish someone would post a link to when it was enacted.
//Why yes I am lazy;)


a mosin nagant rifle will run you 100-200 it holds 5 rounds, the longer ones are mostly M91/30 the shorter ones are mostly M44, there are other models out there but they are rarer and will cost you more, i have a M44 carbine model, it is more convenient to carry

ammo comes in 440 round tins which cost 90-100 or 880 round crates(crate of 2 tins) that cost 180-200. this ammo is corrosive and you will need to carry at least a .30 cal bore snake and some water to do a water wash of the bore after you are done shooting, then do a proper clean when you get home.


the advantages of the rifle and the surplus 7.62x54R ammo it shoots are as follows

at under 20 cents a round you can fully load the rifle for a cost of $1 USD

every time you pull the trigger it goes boom

it is a fairly simple device to clean, to take the bolt out just hold the triffer down while the bolt is open at it's farthest back position, slides right out.

it is a full power rifle round and the russians use them to hunt even huge things like bears

it can go through 1/2-3/4inch steel plate, or just about anything else joe asshole may try to weld to a hummer H3 to make a DIY tank in a real collapse of society.

the disadvantages are as follows

it is rather loud (deliberately understated, it's loud as all hell, wear your ear plugs)

it will beat the heck out of your shoulder, the fact that the russians thought a metal plate makes a good butt pad does not help in this regard

ammo, while cheap, is not terribly common in the states so for a real end of the world scenario you really do need to have at least a few tins stocked up

non-surplus ammo is quite expensive, like $20 for a box of 20 rounds, but that does have the advantage of being non-corrosive (side note, if you see mil surp ammo advertised as non-corrosive, it's fine to buy it but treat it as corrosive ammo anyways, i have never seen actual non-corrosive surplus ammo in 54R)

Dellirium: The ceiling has been raised many times in the past without all this partisan bickering.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure," he said. "It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

In March 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found the notion of raising the debt ceiling quite distasteful.

Your Messiah voted against every debt ceiling increase put before him as a Senator. But for some reason it is OK now?

boomm: The Great EZE: k-miner: So we should just give the heroin addicts more heroin if they promise to quit tomorrow?

Your attempt at a metaphor was hackneyed, overly-simplistic, and in no way a reflection of anything resembling reality. The TeaOP welcomes you.

Inspiration. Probably not original. Still, I'm gunna have to save that one for later.

Yes, I vote along party lines, with the Tea-O'-Pee.

Don't Pee in the Tea....

You might end up with an orange Boehner

Slam1263: In March 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found the notion of raising the debt ceiling quite distasteful.

Your Messiah voted against every debt ceiling increase put before him as a Senator. But for some reason it is OK now?

That's about right. Problem?

Oh , and stay away from Glocks unless you are handy at repairs. Nice weapon, light weight low recoil, but the barrel should be replaced every 500 (Glock recommendation), to 750 rounds. And you can go through that in 2 weeks of training.

For a novice shooter, the 12 Ga is an ideal close in weapon. The recoil on an auto loader will be 40% less than a pump action.

Slam1263: Dellirium: The ceiling has been raised many times in the past without all this partisan bickering.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure," he said. "It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

In March 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found the notion of raising the debt ceiling quite distasteful.

Your Messiah voted against every debt ceiling increase put before him as a Senator. But for some reason it is OK now?

The flaw in your logic is that you assume that I voted for him.
He is not my, nor anyone else's Messiah. He voted against it, but it passed anyway. And you're right, read the message, it IS a failure of leadership not to balance the budget, increase the debt ceiling, etc. You must have had a lot to say when George failed at it over and over again.
You have learned your Fox discreditation Speaking Points well, the dumbing down of the American intellect continues apace.

Let me guess, his offer is that we spend several billion dollars on a massive debt dump in bumfark Nevada, then kill the program after it's already complete?

captain_heroic44: g4lt: captain_heroic44: L.D. Ablo: OhioKnight: welcome to the
TEA PARTY DEPRESSION

Eh, Depression 2.0 started before the Tea Baggers elected these morons.

Whether or not the debt limit gets raised won't change much. Raising it will just delay the inevitable. Probably why the saner Republicans are taking a pass on the 2012 election.

I'm sort of hoping the GOP will hit the accelerator during the derailment. They've forgotten the lesson from Newt's government shutdown. They have plenty of rope, we should encourage them to string themselves up. Hopefully, that will be the end of them. The result won't be good for the country, but the country is totally farked anyway. Might as well let the Republicans take themselves out.

What they're going to do is, at the 11th hour pass a six month debt ceiling increase with large spending cuts, and no tax increases. If Obama refuses to sign it into law, they'll say the default is his fault. If he does sign it into law, Obama lost the negotiation, and we get to play the same fun game six months from now.

No, because it'll get filibustered in the Senate

Once it passes the House, it can pass with 51 votes in budget reconciliation. Surely four or five conservadems will peel off to pass it.

reconciliation? you mean the thing that hardly ever happens in the same month as the bill's introduced? If you're lucky, reconciliation will put it on the president's desk by fall. Stacking pipe dreams on other, failed, pipe dreams is no way to go through life, son.

Note to Democrats: "Not adding as much as we first planned to add to the deficit" is not the same as "actually reducing the farking deficit." In the same light, "Reducing the giant gobs of cash that we are borrowing so we can blow it on pet projects and giveaways to merely huge gobs of cash we intend to borrow and blow" is not actually a financially responsible move either.

Note to Republicans: A) If you really think your financial institution sponsors will let you default on the debt and crush their investments and business, you're an idiot. B) Your opposition knows this as well as you do, so you are wasting your time with the bluff.

If you're not bluffing, then your goal must be a hard reset of the entire federal system with all of the carnage that entails. Good luck with the new Constitutional Convention in 2035 when things settle down again.

k-miner: So we should just give the heroin addicts more heroin if they promise to quit tomorrow?

SS and Medicare = heroin.

Brilliant.

Dellirium: 1263: Dellirium: The ceiling has been raised many times in the past without all this partisan bickering.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure," he said. "It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

In March 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found the notion of raising the debt ceiling quite distasteful.

Your Messiah voted against every debt ceiling increase put before him as a Senator. But for some reason it is OK now?

A bunch of underaged randomness, tarted up and looking for someone to buy them smokes.

I don't watch Fox, or really any TV news. I do spend a couple of hours a day reading various publications. But I understand that you don't want to hear anything that upsets your world view.

Maybe I'll even apologize since you own this thread, or some damned thing. Nope, you don't deserve one.

Slam1263: Oh , and stay away from Glocks unless you are handy at repairs. Nice weapon, light weight low recoil, but the barrel should be replaced every 500 (Glock recommendation), to 750 rounds. And you can go through that in 2 weeks of training.

For a novice shooter, the 12 Ga is an ideal close in weapon. The recoil on an auto loader will be 40% less than a pump action.

Wow, that is the biggest bunch of BS about glocks I have ever heard.

Link (new window)

And if you are to lazy to click:

How long will a Glock factory barrel last?
Thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds. The inside of the barrel is much, much harder than a copper-jacketed or lead bullet and will not wear appreciably with normal use. Chuck Taylor has put more than 157,000 rounds through his Glock 17 without ever replacing the barrel.

My text:

Glock has been chosen as the service weapon of choice for most US PD, the FBI, and most of the Spec Op community. The reason, easy maintenance, reliability, and performance.

I say we just print more money.

KIA: Note to Democrats: "Not adding as much as we first planned to add to the deficit" is not the same as "actually reducing the farking deficit." In the same light, "Reducing the giant gobs of cash that we are borrowing so we can blow it on pet projects and giveaways to merely huge gobs of cash we intend to borrow and blow" is not actually a financially responsible move either.


Um...yes it is. There are outlays that say if we go down this spending path these will be the deficits and the debt. If you cut from that, that is cutting future deficits. There is no other way to cut deficits.

DamnYankees: This entire thing is a sham and merely a sign that our government is simply broken.

We've set a new precedent. Every single debt ceiling vote will have this insanity now. We've crossed the threshold here, allowing the country to be held hostage every single time we need the debt ceiling to be changed. We will be held hostage every time, since now its been proven to work.

I'm reminded of nothing so much as when the Gracchi in the Roman Republic realized they could use the Tribune of the Plebes to introduce legislation. It didn't matter that they failed or that their policies ended up winning (both are true, oddly). What matters is that event showed the Roman system was fundamentally broken and the system was unworkable. I fear we are seeing that happen now.

There was enough grand standing at the last raising that this shouldn't have been unexpected given the recent election. The issue is, Democratic party members in congress hate, hate, hate, tough economic votes, republicans love them, but typically only because they set up Hobson's choices which they'll win when they lose the vote. Spitzer had a great column that a good negotiator would have expected this and gotten a debt ceiling increase in trade for the extention of the Bush tax cuts (a better planner would have simply raised it when members of the Democratic party controlled all three law passing bodies.

Raising corporate profit tax rates definitely works in a snow globe. It would also work in a global economy if we had a moderate tax rate compared to the rest of the first world. Unfortunately, we've already done that to the point that ours is the highest in the developed world. What it would do at this point is direct new ventures elsewhere.
That will all change if we really do close the loopholes businesses use to confound the reportable figures. They make deals by lobbying for exceptions, exemptions, and special categories. The politicians in both parties get rich off this quid pro quo. They will not be changing their stripes amy time soon.

Right now no smart business is paying the posted rate. They use everything they can to avoid doing so. Who wouldn't? You have to stay competitive to keep folks employed. If your edge is based on being the best, you can still go out of business through un-competitive accounting, as many nurse practitioners, etc., and restaurateurs find out the hard way.
But until we make the facts match the figures, upping the corp. profit tax rate will just scare business away. (this is already happening--thee are plenty of growth markets in the world, but we're not one despite many benefits of the US business environment) Sucks, but it's true.

nwarlick: I say we just print more money.

Actually, that might be an option, which is why America ... just as far back as April ... got pretty much a rubber stamp AAA rating. That's also why investors from around the globe flock to US Treasuries as the safest investment in the world whenever the markets get scary, because America is still the default currency of the world.

However, that's going to likely change in the future ... not because of America's financial fundamentals ... they're pretty much the same today as they were in April and last November when they were rated AAA. No, what's changed is the world has gotten weary that a precedent has now been set that every two years when a new freshman congress comes along they can throw a temper tantrum like a petulant child and hold the world's economy hostage by gun point. The world will eventually lose their stomach for this kind of needless chaos, start pegging the dollar, and then we really will be in a shiat sandwhich.

dlp211: KIA: Note to Democrats: "Not adding as much as we first planned to add to the deficit" is not the same as "actually reducing the farking deficit." In the same light, "Reducing the giant gobs of cash that we are borrowing so we can blow it on pet projects and giveaways to merely huge gobs of cash we intend to borrow and blow" is not actually a financially responsible move either.


Um...yes it is. There are outlays that say if we go down this spending path these will be the deficits and the debt. If you cut from that, that is cutting future deficits. There is no other way to cut deficits.

Shhh. Some people prefer to remain bitter about the future of Washington by holding unreasonable expectations about how it should operate. It helps their worldview.

Wow, los of weird word changes from my droid today. Maybe I need to give this thing a rest.

dudemanbro: [img691.imageshack.us image 300x400]

elchip: dudemanbro: [img691.imageshack.us image 300x400]

[i.imgur.com image 524x800]

There is a shortage of perfect breasts in this world...

It's pretty freaking simple. Bush's "tax cuts" were a joke which bankrupted the government. When you give $500 to $2,000 to everyone in America, it costs billions and billions but makes ZERO impact on their lives after the weekend spending spree. Add a couple wars on top and there it all is.

Restore the taxing to its former level and cut down on the wars.

Problem solved.

dlp211: Slam1263: Oh , and stay away from Glocks unless you are handy at repairs. Nice weapon, light weight low recoil, but the barrel should be replaced every 500 (Glock recommendation), to 750 rounds. And you can go through that in 2 weeks of training.

For a novice shooter, the 12 Ga is an ideal close in weapon. The recoil on an auto loader will be 40% less than a pump action.

Sputter, sputter, but my hero says.

I just read it in the manual that came with my G21, not some fanboy site. I went with the 21 because they don't miss fire as often.

And ANYONE that fires 157,000 rounds out of ANY tube, be it .22 or 175mm, is a liar.

Come on over, I'll show you my million round award. Have a seat, let me get you an beverage. No, I don't think you are naive. Put something in your drink? I wouldn't do that. Have I shown you the basement yet?

que.guero: Seriously? What kind of turd would post something like that, or even possess something like that?

*shrug* Don't ask me about the latter question, I just reposted it.

Slam1263: Dellirium: The ceiling has been raised many times in the past without all this partisan bickering.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure," he said. "It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

In March 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found the notion of raising the debt ceiling quite distasteful.

Your Messiah voted against every debt ceiling increase put before him as a Senator. But for some reason it is OK now?

So you're saying that even then, he wanted to have substantive movement on spending and revenues before handing out blank checks? Oh no!

I miss Freep Impact.

Fista-Phobia:

She has a blog, y'know.

Slam1263:

I just read it in the manual that came with my G21, not some fanboy site. I went with the 21 because they don't miss fire as often.

And ANYONE that fires 157,000 rounds out of ANY tube, be it .22 or 175mm, is a liar.

Come on over, I'll show you my million round award. Have a seat, let me get you an beverage. No, I don't think you are naive. Put something in your drink? I wouldn't do that. Have I shown you the basement yet?

Bullshiat. I don't know anyone who has shot the barrel out of their Glock. I easily shot 30k rounds through my service issued Glock and never had a barrel replacement.

Glock has a Glock 17 that had over 350k rounds put through it for testing purpose only replacing springs. They stopped testing it.

T-Boy: It's pretty freaking simple. Bush's "tax cuts" were a joke which bankrupted the government. When you give $500 to $2,000 to everyone in America, it costs billions and billions but makes ZERO impact on their lives after the weekend spending spree. Add a couple wars on top and there it all is.

Restore the taxing to its former level and cut down on the wars.

Problem solved.

But welfare and unemployment benefits are ok? 70 billion a year in revenue's caused this whole mess? You really believe that?

I'm all for restoring taxes to their former levels if they cut spending to former levels.

Sergio_Van_Lukenstein: You know, I hate corporations and wealthy people as must as the next liberal, but I don't care about making them pay more taxes. What will really fix the economy is if they pay higher wages to their workers. (Which will generate more taxes anyway!) How about that?

Here is the funny thing, its actually possible to setup a tax structure where businesses have a choice, A) Pay more taxes or B) Invest back into the business (some of which will be hiring and or wages).
Oh yeah, that is what we have right now, it used to work when taxes were high, businesses invested more into their own businesses, now that they are low reinvestment and and wages are at an all time low. Once your business reaches a certain level, the temptation to just cash in an not reinvest in high.

dlp211: Slam1263:

I just read it in the manual that came with my G21, not some fanboy site. I went with the 21 because they don't miss fire as often.

And ANYONE that fires 157,000 rounds out of ANY tube, be it .22 or 175mm, is a liar.

Come on over, I'll show you my million round award. Have a seat, let me get you an beverage. No, I don't think you are naive. Put something in your drink? I wouldn't do that. Have I shown you the basement yet?

Bullshiat. I don't know anyone who has shot the barrel out of their Glock. I easily shot 30k rounds through my service issued Glock and never had a barrel replacement.

Glock has a Glock 17 that had over 350k rounds put through it for testing purpose only replacing springs. They stopped testing it.

Shouldn't you two be trolling Taurus forums or something? I'll start.

The Judge is a gimmick gun. It's only good for snake hunting.

Holy shiat. I just saw Boehner's comments. Obama manufactured the crisis?

What the fark does he think Americans are smoking?

dlp211: KIA: Note to Democrats: "Not adding as much as we first planned to add to the deficit" is not the same as "actually reducing the farking deficit." In the same light, "Reducing the giant gobs of cash that we are borrowing so we can blow it on pet projects and giveaways to merely huge gobs of cash we intend to borrow and blow" is not actually a financially responsible move either.
-.-.-.-.--.-.

Um...yes it is. There are outlays that say if we go down this spending path these will be the deficits and the debt. If you cut from that, that is cutting future deficits. There is no other way to cut deficits.

Revenue is not a constant in this equation.

The fastest way to bring the books into order is to reduce outlays and increase intake.

Some from column A, some from column B will get us there faster than just one or the other. Work some overtime hours *and* choose the cheap store-brand bologna.

Much like the obvious mantra in obesity threads: Eat less, exercise more.

/Platitudes: So easy I can do it from work.

Fista-Phobia: dlp211: Slam1263:

I just read it in the manual that came with my G21, not some fanboy site. I went with the 21 because they don't miss fire as often.

And ANYONE that fires 157,000 rounds out of ANY tube, be it .22 or 175mm, is a liar.

Come on over, I'll show you my million round award. Have a seat, let me get you an beverage. No, I don't think you are naive. Put something in your drink? I wouldn't do that. Have I shown you the basement yet?

Bullshiat. I don't know anyone who has shot the barrel out of their Glock. I easily shot 30k rounds through my service issued Glock and never had a barrel replacement.

Glock has a Glock 17 that had over 350k rounds put through it for testing purpose only replacing springs. They stopped testing it.

Shouldn't you two be trolling Taurus forums or something? I'll start.

The Judge is a gimmick gun. It's only good for snake hunting.

No because I am actually not found of Glock, I shoot a Springfield XD .45. I prefer the more upright stance of it. That being said, I am not about to let someone put out some bogus info about how often the barrels on a Glock have to be changed.

The owner's manual doesn't even contain replacement life for Glock pistols. You have to actually dig for that info and the manufactures recommendation is 20k rounds yet Glock is known to exceed all manufacture recommendations.

dlp211: Fista-Phobia: dlp211: Slam1263:

I just read it in the manual that came with my G21, not some fanboy site. I went with the 21 because they don't miss fire as often.

And ANYONE that fires 157,000 rounds out of ANY tube, be it .22 or 175mm, is a liar.

Come on over, I'll show you my million round award. Have a seat, let me get you an beverage. No, I don't think you are naive. Put something in your drink? I wouldn't do that. Have I shown you the basement yet?

Bullshiat. I don't know anyone who has shot the barrel out of their Glock. I easily shot 30k rounds through my service issued Glock and never had a barrel replacement.

Glock has a Glock 17 that had over 350k rounds put through it for testing purpose only replacing springs. They stopped testing it.

Shouldn't you two be trolling Taurus forums or something? I'll start.

The Judge is a gimmick gun. It's only good for snake hunting.

No because I am actually not found of Glock, I shoot a Springfield XD .45. I prefer the more upright stance of it. That being said, I am not about to let someone put out some bogus info about how often the barrels on a Glock have to be changed.

The owner's manual doesn't even contain replacement life for Glock pistols. You have to actually dig for that info and the manufactures recommendation is 20k rounds yet Glock is known to exceed all manufacture recommendations.

ooooook