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(Canoe)   "Free circumcision makes good politics", spaghetti-os   (cnews.canoe.ca) divider line 87
    More: Unlikely, circumcisions, good governance, private hospital, Istanbul, rites, medical facility, puberty  
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2603 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2011 at 1:56 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



87 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-07-15 01:59:46 PM
Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.
 
2011-07-15 02:00:18 PM
Oh good, this topic again. I'll definitely check back later to read all of the interesting new opinions that I've never seen posted on Fark before.
 
2011-07-15 02:01:14 PM
Don't eat the free onion rings.
 
2011-07-15 02:03:27 PM

lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.


Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?
 
2011-07-15 02:03:51 PM
Circumcision is a euphemism for genital mutilation.
 
2011-07-15 02:04:25 PM
Those kids look farking thrilled.
 
2011-07-15 02:05:22 PM
that's fu*king sad and sickening.
 
2011-07-15 02:05:57 PM
Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?
 
2011-07-15 02:06:02 PM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


Congratulations, you have found a grey area. Its not going to help you escape the fact that removing a healthy part of someones body when they are a helpless baby is a horrible thing to do.
 
2011-07-15 02:06:43 PM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


right, because a pierce through an ear is the same as cutting off a portion of a sex organ
 
2011-07-15 02:06:52 PM
Never eating Spaghetti-O's again. Thanks, subby.

Then again, I'm not sure I've ever bought them in the first place.
 
2011-07-15 02:07:48 PM
Christ, Subby.
 
2011-07-15 02:08:17 PM
rudemix
lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


Technically, YES. Mutilation is Mutilation. The only thing that actually sets the two apart are the standards of the communities in which they are viewed. Same exact theory applies to domestic violence and the legality and/or social acceptance of it within the community where it takes place. Some cultures say it's OK, but their justification doesn't change the fact that Domestic Violence is an Act of Violence. Just as our justifications on specific or all "Body Modifications" doesn't change the fact that they are Acts of Mutilation.

Any other questions there, Skippy?
 
2011-07-15 02:08:29 PM

BillSmith70: Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?


Dogfood.
 
2011-07-15 02:10:21 PM
grossest headline ever.
 
2011-07-15 02:10:48 PM

Failing_Junk: rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?

Congratulations, you have found a grey area. Its not going to help you escape the fact that removing a healthy part of someones body when they are a helpless baby is a horrible thing to do.


Ohhh Lordy, with that post we could take this discussion in a whole new, even more shiatstormy direction. I'll abstain.
 
2011-07-15 02:12:22 PM
Who wants fried calamari?!
 
2011-07-15 02:14:12 PM

Nick Nostril: BillSmith70: Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?

Dogfood.


Chewing gum for homosexuals.
 
2011-07-15 02:14:23 PM

Failing_Junk: rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?

Congratulations, you have found a grey area. Its not going to help you escape the fact that removing a healthy part of someones body when they are a helpless baby is a horrible thing to do.


Grey area? So punching a hole in it is cool, but removing is not?

Mrs.Sharpier: rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?

right, because a pierce through an ear is the same as cutting off a portion of a sex organ


I don't know. That's why I asked. Is a question that bothers people hard to answer without being a cock?

Claude Ballse: rudemix
lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?

Technically, YES. Mutilation is Mutilation. The only thing that actually sets the two apart are the standards of the communities in which they are viewed. Same exact theory applies to domestic violence and the legality and/or social acceptance of it within the community where it takes place. Some cultures say it's OK, but their justification doesn't change the fact that Domestic Violence is an Act of Violence. Just as our justifications on specific or all "Body Modifications" doesn't change the fact that they are Acts of Mutilation.

Any other questions there, Skippy?


No, Dooshy. That was perfect. Though I wonder which side of the standards of the community get to make it right or wrong?
 
2011-07-15 02:14:46 PM
Wait patiently, and I'm sure that soon, someone very opinionated (and always wrong) will make this thread all about him.
 
2011-07-15 02:17:05 PM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


Yes. Unequivocally, and without the sugar coating some other posters are putting on it.
/parent of unpierced daughters
//they can choose at 16, no earlier
 
2011-07-15 02:19:50 PM

Failing_Junk: Its not going to help you escape the fact that removing a healthy part of someones body when they are a helpless baby is a horrible thing to do.


Muslim circumcisions generally occur around seven, so if you're gonna split hairs to make your point, these are not babies being mutilated - the Jews mutilate babies; the Muslims mutilate second-graders
 
2011-07-15 02:20:45 PM
I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?
 
2011-07-15 02:22:51 PM

phalamir: Muslim circumcisions generally occur around seven, so if you're gonna split hairs to make your point, these are not babies being mutilated - the Jews mutilate babies; the Muslims mutilate second-graders


Thanks for the information, though I would have appreciated it more without the asinine implication that i am splitting hairs.
 
2011-07-15 02:25:41 PM

phalamir: the Jews mutilate babies


And then have old dudes suck on their penises (new window)
 
2011-07-15 02:27:59 PM

astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?


So that's what that guy was doing at the zoo..........
 
2011-07-15 02:28:28 PM
astralvortex
I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?

He knows your fears:

4.bp.blogspot.com

rudemix
No, Dooshy. That was perfect. Though I wonder which side of the standards of the community get to make it right or wrong?

Probably the ones who hold the most control over the community itself and through their power are able to implement/push/enforce their values onto everyone else, and thus define the "standards" of said community. Glad I could help there, Fruity Ass.
 
2011-07-15 02:30:41 PM

astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?


1) Do you enjoy the tactile feedback that your finger tips provide? A super nerve dense area of skin that allows your hands to actually feel things? Imagine if as a baby someone came along and shaved off all of your finger tips so that you'd look like your dad. Do you think you'd get the same tactile feedback as someone with 'unshaved' fingers?

You wouldn't know any different. As far as you know that's how fingers are supposed to work.

2) On "Ribbed for her Pleasure" condoms where the heck do you think 'rib' was supposed to come from? You get yours from a box, mine's built in.
 
2011-07-15 02:31:12 PM
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
phalamir: the Jews mutilate babies

And then have old dudes suck on their penises (new window)


I believe that's referred to as a Lemon Party.
 
2011-07-15 02:31:20 PM
Well I, for one, am totally happy my genitals were mutilated as an infant to appease an angry, jealous god that I have no desire to worship.
 
2011-07-15 02:33:09 PM

darkscout: astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?

1) Do you enjoy the tactile feedback that your finger tips provide? A super nerve dense area of skin that allows your hands to actually feel things? Imagine if as a baby someone came along and shaved off all of your finger tips so that you'd look like your dad. Do you think you'd get the same tactile feedback as someone with 'unshaved' fingers?

You wouldn't know any different. As far as you know that's how fingers are supposed to work.

2) On "Ribbed for her Pleasure" condoms where the heck do you think 'rib' was supposed to come from? You get yours from a box, mine's built in.


But what about the monkey teasing?
 
2011-07-15 02:35:58 PM
Uh-oh.
 
2011-07-15 02:36:13 PM
I'm circumcised and I couldn't care any less, even after all the armchair human rights advocates here whined about it.
 
2011-07-15 02:37:59 PM

Lovelight: grossest headline ever.


I'll second that. Barf.
 
2011-07-15 02:39:12 PM
Can be restored easily and for free. Non-issue.
 
2011-07-15 02:39:18 PM
fark off and whine about something else.

99% of cut men don't really give a damn. The remaining 1% are whiny biatches. 1% of those, might have a legitimate concern.
Get over it, and put your energy towards word hunger or global warming.
 
2011-07-15 02:39:44 PM
oh and my original reason coming here was to comment on the nastiness of the headline. Yeesh. Well done, Subby.
 
2011-07-15 02:40:45 PM

BillSmith70: Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?


Make wallets that turn into suitcases when you rub on them.
 
2011-07-15 02:40:51 PM
shouldn't that be spelled "spaghetti-oes"?
 
2011-07-15 02:42:32 PM

darkscout: astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?

1) Do you enjoy the tactile feedback that your finger tips provide? A super nerve dense area of skin that allows your hands to actually feel things? Imagine if as a baby someone came along and shaved off all of your finger tips so that you'd look like your dad. Do you think you'd get the same tactile feedback as someone with 'unshaved' fingers?

You wouldn't know any different. As far as you know that's how fingers are supposed to work.

2) On "Ribbed for her Pleasure" condoms where the heck do you think 'rib' was supposed to come from? You get yours from a box, mine's built in.


I'll pass on the sensitivity thing. Last thing i need is to go from the 10 minute wonder to the 5 minute wonder.

Also, I don't want to go through the motions of peeling a fruit roll-up every time I take a leak.
 
2011-07-15 02:45:19 PM

astralvortex: Also, I don't want to go through the motions of peeling a fruit roll-up every time I take a leak.


You know how I know you haven't used an uncircumcised penis.

/Aside from you just told us.
 
2011-07-15 02:45:48 PM

darkscout: astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?

1) Do you enjoy the tactile feedback that your finger tips provide? A super nerve dense area of skin that allows your hands to actually feel things? Imagine if as a baby someone came along and shaved off all of your finger tips so that you'd look like your dad. Do you think you'd get the same tactile feedback as someone with 'unshaved' fingers?

You wouldn't know any different. As far as you know that's how fingers are supposed to work.

2) On "Ribbed for her Pleasure" condoms where the heck do you think 'rib' was supposed to come from? You get yours from a box, mine's built in.


If thats the case, I'd hate to know how long I'd last if i was uncircumsised. I dont last long enough as it is.

/two pump chump
 
2011-07-15 02:46:43 PM

astralvortex: I'll pass on the sensitivity thing. Last thing i need is to go from the 10 minute wonder to the 5 minute wonder.


Fark is the one place I consistently encounter sexual self-deprecation. It is so hilarious to hear guys openly mocking their own incompetence, impotence, and insufficience. It makes me laugh every single time. Thanks for making this a less crappy day. (Fridays got less special when I started working from home. Boo hoo, right?)
 
2011-07-15 02:49:58 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Well I, for one, am totally happy my genitals were mutilated as an infant to appease an angry, jealous god that I have no desire to worship.


this.

/not cut, but it's still asinine
 
2011-07-15 02:51:32 PM

Wangiss: astralvortex: I'll pass on the sensitivity thing. Last thing i need is to go from the 10 minute wonder to the 5 minute wonder.

Fark is the one place I consistently encounter sexual self-deprecation. It is so hilarious to hear guys openly mocking their own incompetence, impotence, and insufficience. It makes me laugh every single time. Thanks for making this a less crappy day. (Fridays got less special when I started working from home. Boo hoo, right?)


I was actually bragging...
 
2011-07-15 02:51:39 PM
Why do women love men who've been cut?

They can't resist something that is 10% off
 
2011-07-15 02:51:51 PM
Actually IMHO calamari would have been more gross. Now that I've thought of that I will never look at calamari the same again.
 
2011-07-15 02:58:26 PM
dailyhighfive.com
 
2011-07-15 03:02:31 PM

astralvortex: Wangiss: astralvortex: I'll pass on the sensitivity thing. Last thing i need is to go from the 10 minute wonder to the 5 minute wonder.

Fark is the one place I consistently encounter sexual self-deprecation. It is so hilarious to hear guys openly mocking their own incompetence, impotence, and insufficience. It makes me laugh every single time. Thanks for making this a less crappy day. (Fridays got less special when I started working from home. Boo hoo, right?)

I was actually bragging...


Honestly, I wouldn't know. The Missus only lasts two minutes after the introductories, and she's too sensitive for round two, so I've learned to make it quick for the sake of peace.
 
2011-07-15 03:03:37 PM

rwfan: Actually IMHO calamari would have been more gross. Now that I've thought of that I will never look at calamari the same again.


you bastard
 
2011-07-15 03:05:40 PM

astralvortex: I'm circumcised and I am happy about it. Who the fark wants to run around with a dick that looks like a banana. You going to tease a monkey with your dick?


This. And that's before we discuss issues of cleanliness. Who wants to run around with a jock strap smell generator
 
2011-07-15 03:23:50 PM
Commenting that you are happy without your foreskin or bringing up trivial hygiene issues is completely missing the point. If you want to mutilate your body for aesthetic reasons or because you cant be bothered to apply soap to it regularly that is your right as an adult.

It is still horrible to impose it on a child.
 
2011-07-15 03:38:40 PM
Y'all do what you want. But I knew a guy, ex-Marine, a total sex addict - I mean, I like sex, but this guy was compulsive, he'd screw anything that moved, really. He had it done when he was 25 and said it was the best thing he'd ever done for himself.
 
2011-07-15 03:38:57 PM
I'd like to raise a practical question at this time- Who the fark cares? Not doing it does not harm the child, doing it does not harm the child, it's not "mutilation" it's a stupid piece of skin that is removed. Get the fark over it.
 
2011-07-15 03:39:51 PM

Failing_Junk: It is still horrible to impose it on a child.


No it's not.
 
2011-07-15 03:41:59 PM

ghare: Y'all do what you want. But I knew a guy, ex-Marine, a total sex addict - I mean, I like sex, but this guy was compulsive, he'd screw anything that moved, really. He had it done when he was 25 and said it was the best thing he'd ever done for himself.


this is my ONLY complaint against it. The fact that it keeps you really sensitive, which could be good/bad, depending on if you want that. I don't think the disease thing or smell thing are really as bad as people blow them up to be (pardon the pun), but I do think that the sensitivity argument is the ONLY argument really in favor of leaving it.
 
2011-07-15 03:42:12 PM
GooberMcFly

24.media.tumblr.com


/Uh oh! Circumcisy-O's!
 
2011-07-15 03:46:00 PM

BillSmith70: Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?


Duh, they answered that right in the article...

"For any good Muslim family that would include having their boys circumcised, observing religious rites and providing a small feast for relatives and neighbours."
 
2011-07-15 03:51:30 PM

Failing_Junk: Commenting that you are happy without your foreskin or bringing up trivial hygiene issues is completely missing the point. If you want to mutilate your body for aesthetic reasons or because you cant be bothered to apply soap to it regularly that is your right as an adult.

It is still horrible to impose it on a child.


"impose" the non-responsibility to not use soap? And do newborns make aesthetic decisions about anything? There are plenty of valid arguments, but not these.
 
2011-07-15 03:53:16 PM
BillSmith70:
Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?

Typically they either sell it to face cream companies for hundreds of thousands of dollars per ounce, or they use it to grow skin grafts and charge hundreds of thousands to use it. Either way they make lots of money from it after you pay for the privilege of them snipping it off.
 
2011-07-15 03:55:06 PM

yarnothuntin: I'd like to raise a practical question at this time- Who the fark cares? Not doing it does not harm the child, doing it does not harm the child, it's not "mutilation" it's a stupid piece of skin that is removed. Get the fark over it.


You sure about that?


The American Academy of Pediatrics has reported that while the exact incident of post-operative complications following a circumcision is unknown, it is thought to be between 2-10 per cent. One of the reasons for this is that many problems following circumcision do not become apparent until the child grows into adulthood.

And


Circumcision horror stories


Lots more if you want. Just ask.

Hmmm....Infection, amputation of the penis, death......yup, no harm there. Perfectly safe surgery, as if such a thing is possible.
 
2011-07-15 03:55:49 PM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


I didn't get my daughter's ears pierced until she was old enough to tell me, in no uncertain terms that's what she wanted.

She told me when she was four. I laughed and said wait. She said it again when she was five. She really wanted her ears pierced. And the kid who hates shots and anything to do with needles, sat there patiently, hugged a teddy bear and got her ears pierced without any fuss.

Needless, to say I was impressed. To this day she remembers that it was her choice and she's not sorry she did.

I never really thought about it until I started reading the posts about circumcision and pain. I only have the one kid, a daughter, and never had to make that decision. But I would have done it because I was always told that "foreskin" is just a needless piece of skin, like an appendix. They always made it sound like they were just taking off a sac, kind of like when a baby is born in the first place with the amniotic sac still in place. Needless membrane, painless to remove, that's what I was always told.

I had no idea the amount of skin lost or the pain babies go through when they are circumcised and if I am ever lucky enough to have another child, if he is a boy, I will not do this to him.
 
2011-07-15 04:05:26 PM

FarkinHostile: yarnothuntin: I'd like to raise a practical question at this time- Who the fark cares? Not doing it does not harm the child, doing it does not harm the child, it's not "mutilation" it's a stupid piece of skin that is removed. Get the fark over it.

You sure about that?


The American Academy of Pediatrics has reported that while the exact incident of post-operative complications following a circumcision is unknown, it is thought to be between 2-10 per cent. One of the reasons for this is that many problems following circumcision do not become apparent until the child grows into adulthood.

And


Circumcision horror stories

Lots more if you want. Just ask.

Hmmm....Infection, amputation of the penis, death......yup, no harm there. Perfectly safe surgery, as if such a thing is possible.


HAHA! "We don't know, but we'd guess" is awesome proof. You win the internet.
 
2011-07-15 04:09:49 PM
are any of these arguments raised when people purposely give their kids chicken pox? (insert south park picture here)
 
2011-07-15 04:17:50 PM

Wangiss:

HAHA! "We don't know, but we'd guess" is awesome proof. You win the internet.




Are you really taking the stance that circumcision complications/accidents don't happen? Did you bother to check out the links or are you just going to keep fu(king the "They don't have rock solid numbers!!! It's all bullshiat!" chicken?


How about "The data is often difficult to compose for many reasons, including pending lawsuits and religious resistance but we DO know it happens in hundreds of cases every single year."

Or how about this:

"Journal of Urology (Baltimore), vol 153, no 3 part I (March 1995: pp 778-779) states that the rate of accidents is from 1.5% to 15%."

Want some specific cases? I can post hundreds of documented cases of circumcision complications. Perhaps a personal anecdote if documented evidence and cases aren't good enough for you: One of my best friends son has had 3 surgeries to "correct" a circumcision complication. So, on my one personal case 4 surgeries have been preformed when none should have been needed.

You, sir, are fooling no one.
 
2011-07-15 04:30:37 PM
I was circumcised as baby like most boys of my generation in this part of the country. I don't feel mutilated but of course I have no with-foreskin memories to compare it to.

I don't usually like the looks of foreskins (of course I think my own willy is the prettiest one ever) and I've read about foreskins being a risk factor STDs and HIV, but I think it should be done voluntarily only to adults who seek it out. It's rarely medically necessary, just teach the kid to pull back the foreskin and wash under it and to wear condoms when he farks people who might have something contagious.

Speaking of mutilations, in my opinion tattoos and scarification fall into that category. Not to mention splitting your tongue down the middle, making big holes in your earlobes, etc. etc. etc.
 
2011-07-15 04:31:32 PM
Yes, it happens. I wasn't trying to fool anyone. You're the one who gave us a ticket with two swinging chads.
 
2011-07-15 04:35:55 PM
On the other hand, I'm sure that female genital mutilation is horrible and those who do it, or hold their daughters down for it, should die a long slow painful death. Like in Martyrs or Dard Divorce, two more flicks I couldn't finish.
 
2011-07-15 04:41:28 PM

Wangiss: Yes, it happens. I wasn't trying to fool anyone. You're the one who gave us a ticket with two swinging chads.



Can you understand that the data is difficult to compile due to many reasons? Regardless, the point is that circumcision is not a harmless procedure. Even under perfect circumstances it amputates a healthy part of a boys penis, removing a good percentage of nerves. Under not so perfect conditions it can lead to death or worse, penile amputation.
 
2011-07-15 04:45:51 PM

Failing_Junk: Commenting that you are happy without your foreskin or bringing up trivial hygiene issues is completely missing the point. If you want to mutilate your body for aesthetic reasons or because you cant be bothered to apply soap to it regularly that is your right as an adult.

It is still horrible to impose it on a child.


As is compulsory religious instruction and attendance. Or calling the boy a sissy if he doesn't like sports. Or using TV to babysit a kid. Or dressing girls in pink and teaching them to be vapid cartoons. Or spanking. Or making them ashamed of their bodies. Or showing them that making fun of others for their race and/or sexuality is okay. Or any number of things that "normal" parents do all the time that few people even bother to think about.

Of all these I think circumcision is the least harmful. Of course I could be mistaken, but I'm sure the other "options" are very very wrong.
 
2011-07-15 04:52:24 PM

FarkinHostile: Wangiss: Yes, it happens. I wasn't trying to fool anyone. You're the one who gave us a ticket with two swinging chads.


Can you understand that the data is difficult to compile due to many reasons? Regardless, the point is that circumcision is not a harmless procedure. Even under perfect circumstances it amputates a healthy part of a boys penis, removing a good percentage of nerves. Under not so perfect conditions it can lead to death or worse, penile amputation.


I'm not arguing against your point. I'm arguing against your methods. It totally sucks to cite "evidence" that reads like "it is either impossible or we're too lazy to prove our point, but it probably is statistically significant enough to change our society in a way we prefer!"
 
2011-07-15 05:07:53 PM

Wangiss:

I'm not arguing against your point. I'm arguing against your methods. It totally sucks to cite "evidence" that reads like "it is either impossible or we're too lazy to prove our point, but it probably is statistically significant enough to change our society in a way we prefer!"



Eh, I agree the raw data leaves much to be desired, but that's what is out there. I can't provide what isn't available. Regardless, the uncertainty of the complication rates doesn't invalidate the real point. The accident/complication rates are difficult to pin down, but the data is clear. It happens. Outside of the US, first world medical authorities are also pretty clear regarding circumcision:

Canadian Paediatric Society
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/fn/fn96-01.htm
"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancy&babies/circumcision.htm
"Circumcision is a 'non-therapeutic' procedure, which means it is not medically necessary."
"After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions."

Royal Australasian College of Physicians
http://www.racp.edu.au/index.cfm?objectid=B5610716-9E3E-6C97-A8D87880FD002E3B
"After extensive review of the literature, the Paediatrics & Child Health Division of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians has concluded that there is no medical reason for routine newborn male circumcision."
(almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves, as the male circumcision rate in Australia in 1950 was about 90%. "Routine" circumcision is now *banned* in public hospitals in Australia in all states except one.)

British Medical Association
http://www.bma.org.uk/ethics/consent_and_capacity/malecircumcision2006.jsp#Cir cu mcisionformedicalpurposes
"to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate."

The Royal Dutch Medical Association
http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/knmgpublicaties/KNMGpublicatie/Nontherapeuti c- circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm
"The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children's rights to autonomy and physical integrity. Contrary to popular belief, circumcision can cause complications - bleeding, infection, urethral stricture and panic attacks are particularly common. KNMG is therefore urging a strong policy of deterrence. KNMG is calling upon doctors to actively and insistently inform parents who are considering the procedure of the absence of medical benefits and the danger of complications."



Look up Dr. John Kellogg. Find out how this stupid, dangerous procedure became popular in the US as a cure for masturbation. His cure for girls? Burning off the clitoris with carbolic acid.


Seriously, don't believe me, look it up.

/Also advocated yogurt enemas.
//Barbaric fool
 
2011-07-15 05:18:07 PM
FarkinHostile: stuff

Okay, so you've brought to the fore (har har) an overwhelming concensus from non-cosmetic surgeons that circumcicion is cosmetic, and therefore unnecessary. Cool. That's much better and much more supportable reasoning. Thank you. The "let's change society" aspect of it still has me unimpressed, but you've done your diligence this time without pretense to authority. Bravo; no snark. And I think it would be impossible to disagree with the fact that surgeries go wrong. The same could be well said about tonsilectomies, etc. I guess the crusade just doesn't energize me like some people.
 
2011-07-15 05:33:01 PM
BillSmith70 2011-07-15 02:05:57 PM
Do you know what they do with the small piece of skin that was circumcised?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----------
They make face cream from them. Not shiatting you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------

Something about a mass circumcision event really disgusts me.
I mean really there was no NEEDED heath care to be offered instead?

When I had my son, I told my husband he could chose. Seems fair since he actually has a penis and I do not.

But when he was heading out the door to have the doctor cut off my sons foreskin I stared to cry - very powerful since he hadn't EVER seen me cry before.
I wasn't being manipulative I just really regretted saying he could choose and felt so bad for our son.

All I could feel was he was taking my baby away to be harmed for no good reason.

Why put a baby through the trauma and risk?
If my son wants the outside of his penis cut off I am happy to pay for it once he is old enough to decide on his own.


I think it should be the penis owners choice.

But I have frineds who circumcised their sons and I don't think less of them.
I hate those who didn't and get all preachy and act like they made a superior decision.

Either way is fine the kid who grew up with no foreskin is not going to suffer. He doesn't know what having one is like so it will not harm him.
As long as the doctor didn't fark it up of course and that rarely happens.

I did a quick survey at my sons doctors office and only one Mom was circumcising.
Those who are not will not have to worry about their sons standing out.

The practice started in many religions as a way to prevent masturbation. Apparently it is much more satisfying with a foreskin.
I guess at least when mine hits puberty I wont have to go hunting for my lotion.


Unrelated and unproven...
I think circumcision contributes to the likelihood a boy will develop autism but I believe it is very similar to PTSD.
I also think the notion babies should be put in cribs alone in their rooms to cry themselves to sleep can trigger infantile PTSD which later presents as autism disorder.
The whole independent baby movement coincides with a steady rise in autism diagnoses.

No mammal is dumb enough to willingly leave their baby in a separate area - a predator would eat it.
And yeah time outs can be more damaging then a spanking it depends on the kid; no two realities are alike a parent knows best how THEIR child will perceive a consequence.
 
2011-07-15 05:35:24 PM

Wangiss: I guess the crusade just doesn't energize me like some people.



I understand that a lot of people think it is not a big deal, but I am...offended?...that personal physical integrity in this matter is not viewed as a human right. I'd feel the same way if we traditionally tattooed "Owned by Jesus" on babies, even if every other male in the US had it.

Leave babies alone. God didn't make any mistakes and doesn't need us to correct it's work.


Night.
 
2011-07-15 05:42:40 PM

FarkinHostile: Wangiss: I guess the crusade just doesn't energize me like some people.


I understand that a lot of people think it is not a big deal, but I am...offended?...that personal physical integrity in this matter is not viewed as a human right. I'd feel the same way if we traditionally tattooed "Owned by Jesus" on babies, even if every other male in the US had it.

Leave babies alone. God didn't make any mistakes and doesn't need us to correct it's work.


Night.


That's funny. Jesus himself said physical circumcicion is unnecessary--what God really wants is an offering of heart. Boy, they were upset about that. :)
 
2011-07-15 05:58:10 PM
I do not agree with circumcision but it is no skin off my kids dick if a parent of another chooses to.
 
2011-07-15 06:08:04 PM
"Draped in blue cloaks over cream satin shirts and wearing caps, the boys each carry a small staff."

Tee hee.

/Wants to see the practice banned, but not touching that one on Fark even with a large staff.
 
2011-07-15 06:36:56 PM

david1963: As is compulsory religious instruction and attendance. Or calling the boy a sissy if he doesn't like sports. Or using TV to babysit a kid. Or dressing girls in pink and teaching them to be vapid cartoons. Or spanking. Or making them ashamed of their bodies. Or showing them that making fun of others for their race and/or sexuality is okay. Or any number of things that "normal" parents do all the time that few people even bother to think about.

Of all these I think circumcision is the least harmful. Of course I could be mistaken, but I'm sure the other "options" are very very wrong.


I agree that all of those are terrible things to do to a child.
 
2011-07-15 08:43:01 PM
When you're out on that evening cruise, pass on the Calamari.

www.eeecooks.com
 
2011-07-15 09:59:47 PM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


Yes and there are now policies in some stores and shops that say the kid has to be at least 9 and up to get pierced in their ears.
 
2011-07-15 10:38:20 PM
No, they don't make good spaghetti-os. They make good substitute calamari. Or maybe pork rinds...
 
2011-07-15 10:57:53 PM
I've just read the headline...Why would a politician want to remove the labia and/or clitoris of a baby girl. I never understood why people would do that. Sure, the baby girl grows up with a more hygienic vulva area, but at what cost?
 
2011-07-16 12:00:23 AM
The act of circumcision is disturbing enough, but TFA describes a whole farking ceremony designed to butter up the kid before it happens, making the whole thing into a seemingly jolly event with much merrymaking... all leading up to an act of child abuse.

But it's all good, because they got to throw a party for it. Right?
 
2011-07-16 01:23:27 AM

cyberspacedout: TFA describes a whole farking ceremony designed to butter up the kid before it happens, making the whole thing into a seemingly jolly event with much merrymaking.


The accompanying photo broke my heart a little :-(.
 
2011-07-16 03:33:24 AM

rudemix: lordaction: Yeah, mutilating babies is great politics.

Mutilation?

Is any kind of body mod a mutilation?

Would you consider a parent getting a child's ears pierced before they could consent mutilation?


I am, as usual, late to the thread. But yes, I consider ear piercing to be mutilation. I am a father of three girls and one boy. I did not allow any of them to get their ears pierced until they were thirteen years old and then, only if they wanted it done.

I acknowledge that I chose that age arbitrarily. But then again, most age restrictions are arbitrary. All four of them chose to get it done. Now that they are fully grown, according to the arbitrary age designated by our society, two of them still have their ears pierced.
 
2011-07-16 09:04:12 AM

someguy945: Oh good, this topic again. I'll definitely check back later to read all of the interesting new opinions that I've never seen posted on Fark before.


i.imgur.com
 
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