Tommy kept the prices up so he could afford to bang Mariah

Please. If CDs cost 50 cents each, Tommy could afford to bang Mariah. We're not talking about Ivana Trump here.

In my 34 years on this planet, I have never experienced such a stretch of time where none of the music is compelling enough for me to go buy. I wouldn't buy most of what's out there right now for 1/10 the price. I don't understand the obsession music companies have with piracy when it's really the simple fact that so much music right now sucks out loud. I'm not an old curmudgeon either. I love music, especially raw and angry stuff, but nothing out there right now has any real originality or personality or integrity; the current rock scene reminds me so much of the late 80s. Everything was looks and style and very little music had substance to it or a real forceful reason for existence. Oddly enough, the music industry was freaking out because sales were dropping off like crazy back then too. Hmmm... go figgur! What we need (and the industry needs too) right now is an explosion of underground stuff, like what happened in the early 90s, to wipe the current crop of poseurs off the music landscape and revitalize it all. And I mean REAL underground stuff, not a bunch of show-off wannabes. We need a heavy rain to come along and wash all the shiat away and start fresh.

Quote: Perisoft
"DO NOT BUY MUSIC FROM RIAA LABELS, PERIOD.

Any time you buy a CD from a RIAA member label, you're feeding money to the RIAA. And when you feed money to the RIAA, you're paying them to:"

And if you steal music from them it also gives them ammunition to do the same damn thing.

The key:

Motivate people to take free content offline.

How?

Well, what do people like better than getting something for free?

Why, getting paid for it, of course.

Presenting.........

Gelatinous's EVIL PLAN FOR MEDIA DOMINATION OF THE INTERNET.
(or "Teh Intarweb" as it is known to some of you).

1. all the big media companies get together and build a distribution network, which strictly controls downloads (ensures completed, quality downloads), tracks users' "official" libraries, offers a credit-based, pay-pal-like purchasing system
2. said companies allow a limited number of downloads to, say a few 100 people at a time of not just brand new releases, but almost all popular songs. Those users pay $.50 per song
3. purchase of song makes that user an "official distributor" of that song
3. new "distributors" can sell the song -- every time someone downloads that song through the network, for $.50, 25 cents goes to the record company, 25 goes to the distributor. Song pays for itself in 2 DLs.
4. Initially, record companies use lots of "fake buyers" to make the process seem very profitable. People see their friends making hundreds of dollars, take their "free" content offline, and get on board. They, too, make $$.
5. After a while, people really are making $$$ off each other as they replace their collections with "legit" copies, which "someone will pay for".
6. Lotteries, competitions for "big ticket" mp3s that are sure to earn the original distributor big bucks. Possible delay on new-distributor status of those songs, so the first person to get them has, say, an exclusive week to sell at the beginning.
7. Huge collections amassed. Record companies win on every transaction. It's a pyramid scheme though, and the late-comers aren't making cash........
8. Also, distribution ability gradually concentrated in the hands of a few with great bandwidth and large libraries

Failure seems likely.
HOWEVER

9. Record companies introduce new ability to customers -- you can set your own profit margin, but still have to charge at least 25 cents to pay the comapny's share
10. New wave of competition as distributors slash prices, offer 2-for-1 deals, etc. Record company still wins w/ every transaction. Most "free" content is gone now, as people are greedy bastards. However, there will always remain "free" networks that can't be stopped.
11. Media companies begin distribution of movies for roughly $4-6 dollars; again, you can keep half as a distributor
12. Everyone is now hooked on this network, w/ relatively cheap prices and enormous selection (entire catalogue of recorded music w/ assured high quality). Distributor profit margins dwindle but no one cares anymore.

Side benefits: massive increase in bandwidth use, new computer purchases, purchases of mp3 players, etc. Introduction of fiber optic connections to meet demands for bandwidth.

Yeah, it's a pyramid scheme, but you get to keep your copies of the songs, so you don't really lose.

I have left out many details, but I have not yet come across any major flaws. You wouldn't want to make illegal copies from your friends, because you wouldn't be able to profit from them -- you're not registered as a distributor for that song.

Also, CDs are still sold. The purchase of a CD gives the purchaser the right to download that song for free and distribute it. Unique identifier/pass code included with each manufactured CD.

I realize there are huge copyright issues, but this really is the only solution: use people's greed against them.

Comments?

Perisoft

I'm not really sure how I feel on this, so I'm just playing devil's advocate. Nonetheless, if I was boycotting the RIAA before (I was) and they now correct one of the problems I objected to, shouldn't I reward the fact that they've finally started to notice that there may be reasons other than filesharing to explain their poor sales?

Yes, there are two "3."s. Sorry.

and my cd collection grows woohoo...

(on a sad note i spent $18.00 on the new rancid cd last week)

i spent 85 bux to go see the Summer Sanitarium tour in Los Angeles,aside from the 200 on the hotel, that's all the money that all of the bands except for Metallica will ever see from me. besides, how many of you people buy a cd for the cover? ya can't listen to album art.

spleef420

I enjoy seeing who wrote the songs, who they are covering, what equip they used, any info I can find out is good. Doesn't mean I buy a cd for the cover, but it's an added bonus.

Touring/CDs

Almost everything I've seen says that only the very-top superstar artists make money off of CD sales. For everyone else, you end up losing money on CDs, but make your money on the road touring.

SiliconHeroXL...

"So now, CDs are only 70% too expensive. Wonderful."

So who's gonna start making and giving away free CDs out of the goodness of their heart? Somebody's gotta pay, somewhere along the line.

Guys this is a start, score one for file swapping, the masses have spoken.

Note to all the free market capitalists: it took millions of people doing something illegal for one capitalist to get a clue and finally respond to lowered demand. Should capitalism encourage civil disobedience?

"Somebody's gotta pay, somewhere along the line."

Yeah... they're called the artists... when i record, I pay for my own studio time, I pay for my own mastering and my own discs.

/likes music done the right way

OH yeah almost forgot: viva la revolucion!

i pay less than $13 for my CDs now, you're really getting ripped off if you're paying $17+ for CD's

mushpuppy

But the US doesn't have a free-market capitalist system. It has a corporatist system (the law restricts the market in ways that benefit corporations). In a real free market there wouldn't be bullcrap dumb regulations on internet radio and stuff like that. Also, while intellectual property law would exist, it would not favor the entertainment industry so heavily.

You were paying 13 dollars because of the big retail outlets like best buy etc's ability to lower the prices on their big ticket CD's so you get suckered into the store and buy more expensive things.

This will allow mom and pop CD stores to offer the same price.

sher3623... do you plan to give your music away for free forever and never charge a cent to anyone?

$12.98 is not "less than $13."

[Technically it is, but in practice, it isn't]

heh, already have everything I want on mp3 :)

I think $1 per song is reasonable though, that I'll pay for if something new comes out i like.

30% off crap is still crap, just cheaper crap, hence I will not buy crap.

The fact is a cd costs 3 cents to make. Originally, when the cd market first started, record companies said the prices would be high until cds could be mass produced for cheaper. However, when that happened, the cost reduction never happened. Consumers have been ripped off for years and years.

Why anyone would buy a brand new cd at current prices is beyond me.

Most of my discs are given away, yes...
But I do sell some of them at shows for $5 a pop which helps to cover costs, but I still foot most of the bill out of my own pocket.

And you know what? Because I end up paying for those cd's, each and every song is worth every cent I spent laying it down in the studio. I'm not being paid to make music, I'm paying to make music, and I believe that my music is 1000 times better than anything you'd get at worst buy because of that.

you ppl are drowning in the mainstream
wake up and smell the indie

Mr_Moto the US does in fact have a free market capitalist system. In the case of the RIAA its the artists that SIGN with the RIAA companies/labels that give the RIAA the POWER to do the things you're against.

Blame the artists... they're the greedy biatches signing pacts with the Devil.

Dont blame the Devil for being the Devil.. blame the people that support him.

Every once in awhile Circuit City will have a "All cd's $9.99" sale. That is the only time I go in and pick up some cd's i've wanted.

/only buys cds that i can't find online because it's too obscure, and thus cheap when i go to amoeba to pick it up.

deepdiscountcd.com

On another note...

if you wanna know why I download music instead of paying for it? watch an episode of MTV's Cribs and you'll see why. I pay my own way to make my own albums, produce a quality product that is freely or cheaply distributed and I live in a crummy 1 bedroom apartment, whilst these asshats make one "ok" song and 13 fillers and charge $15.99 for it to pay for the 6 cars in the driveway of their mansion in Beverly Hills.

/thinks MTV ruined the music industry

What I find amusing is the "righteous" stealers who say that they want more money to go to the artist; But since the record labels don't pay the artist much for each CD, they will STEAL it instead. So....you want money to go to the artist, but you would rather STEAL their music than buy the CD where SOME money will go to them.....makes no sense.

makes perfect sense

yes the artist isn't getting the 75 cents for the album, but the record company isn't getting the $14.25 they were stealing from the artist anyway

The music industry is going to die. Here is why.

A few days ago I tried like hell to buy the new BT CD.

I went to Best Buy. No CD.
I went to Circuit City. No CD.
I went to Warehouse. No CD.
I went on iTunes. No BT at all.
I went on LimeWire. BT was there.

I did the same exact thing with the new Interpol CD.
Same exact result.

If the labels can't deliver the music I want, screw them. If the artists are not demanding their music gets distributed, it is not me that is screwing them.

For the last farking time, it's not stealing, just like burning a picture of someone is not murder.

BTW. I ended up buying both CDs direct. I am not a thief. However, it is getting really hard to be honest.

Note to all the free market capitalists: it took millions of people doing something illegal for one capitalist to get a clue and finally respond to lowered demand. Should capitalism encourage civil disobedience?

You bet your ass it should. Civil disobedience is a function of the market. If a person's perceived risk of being caught is low enough to justify not paying for an item, then theft will occur. This theft points to a failure on the part of the manufacturer/distributor, who then must respond with a solution to curb theft. These solutions can be multifold:

1) Lower price to coincide with customer's opinion of what the item is worth.

2) Tighten security measures to make theft prohibitively expensive (what the RIAA is trying to do with en masse lawsuits)

3) Raise the quality of the product to raise customers' opinion of the product's value to your price level.

4) Abandon the whole industry as unprofitable.

Thales:in answer to the question you posed at the beginning of this thread -- "is it still theft if I wasn't going to buy it anyway?" -- yes, it is. I don't plan on ever buying a Porche. That doesn't mean it's ok to drive one off the lot.

If you didn't plan on buying it, you don't deserve to have it. End story.

Mind you... this doesn't mean I have no mp3s on my computer. It just means I don't feel the need to concoct some bulls*** moral highground in order to justify my actions.

It IS stealing, knucklehead. But frankly, I'm glad they dropped the price. CD's just aren't worth $20, especially not the crap they've been putting our lately.

greyseal : Is it theft if i look at your porche, go home to my machine shop and make an identical copy?

And as fo the price drop, its too late. fark them. Im no longer interseted in supporting thier farked up business.

The only thing worse than paying $15+ for a CD is listening to self-righteous shiat weasels trying to tell myself and others that they should not download it for free.

* This post brought to you by an avid WinMX/KazaaLite user whose CD collection is probably larger than yours

Attention music industry:

We want to download. It's convenient. You (still) suck.

here here, moifee...

$20 is outrageous. While I truly believe it is theft, the music industry has been idiotic in not changing their marketing strategy to counter the problem.

I'm surprised the music industry hasn't taken some pointers from the DVD people -- if you offer enough interesting extras, people will buy the disc. Especially if there are so many extras that bandwidth won't readily allow sharing.

Really -- for $15 you can get a 2-disc DVD with 10 hours of great extras. But for $20 you get 50 minutes of music and nothing else? Doesn't add up. Meanwhile, DVDs enjoy strong sales, and CDs are sitting on the shelves. You'd think someone would wise up, no?

Remember that time the Record Companies conspired to keep CD prices high in the early to mid 90's and ripped off all music lovers in the nation, then the people who were sick of high CD prices realized they could download them for free, then the Record Companies went nuts saying people were ripping them off and had to be stopped, then someone found out about that whole conspiracy to keep prices high, then the Record Companies were sued and forced to pay a class-action settlement, then the Record Companies decided to sue a bunch of people for stealing from them, then one of the companies broke ranks and finally lowered prices to a more realistic level for a music CD?

That was awesome.

Unknown_Poltroon : if you have the time and energy to build a perfect Porche at home, be my guest. Likewise, if you have the means and musical talent to re-record the entire CD so that it sounds identical to the orignal... be my guest. But until someone invents a machine that can duplicate cars, you have no leg to stand on. It's too easy to throw a CD into a recorder and copy it.

I'm loving the news today:

RIAA, "It's obvious we have a very serious problem..."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/03/B U249534.DTL

StarkRavingSane, but we can listen to the weasels for free!

"Here's what I don't get."

Answer: Wages and jobs haven't kept up at the same rate. Further, people are tired of replacing their collections every time there's a format change, i.e., vinyl to CD.

I thought it was ironic whoever mentioned the exploding hearts getting money. Since 3/4 of the band died in a car crash.