so now we still have what?100,000,000 more mexicans in this country? kill em all!

GHGlaser: Thoguh: jj325: It's all fun and games breaking treaties until some rich and spoiled US kid gets busted for drugs in Mexico and they don't let him contact the consulate.\

This times 1,000,000. We seem to have forgot that "treat others how you expect to be treated" isn't just a sunday school lesson. That's why stuff like following treaties and not torturing is so important.

But we are treating them the way they treat us.

ORLY Smartie?

Who was the last US citizen executed by a Mexican State court again?

/We're waiting!

yagottabefarkinkiddinme : It would have been better to stop, pause and handle the Mexican Government

In the abstract, I agree with you. Honoring our international agreements improves the treatment of all of us when the local crimelords decide to have us arrested.

In practice, we did handle the Mexican government "in kind". Try getting arresting in Tijuana and see how well they honor your "rights".

I honestly don't worry about getting arrested on bogus charges and tortured in, say, Sweden. If they decide to tell the US to go pound sand, I can look forward to better treatment than my own country would give me.

On the flip side of that, tell me how well those hikers in Iran have benefited from our generally good conduct on the international stage. Oh, right...

"I am sorry for everything I have done," Leal said at the Huntsville facility before he was executed. "I have hurt a lot of people. Let this be final and be done. I take the full blame for this."


Sounds like he was guilty to me, what is all the fuss about?

The First Four Katy Perry Albums: Before I came into this thread, I knew there would be a lot of people here who cared more about this piece of shiat's worthless life than the life he stole from that teenage girl.

airconswitch: That reminds me, when is her scheduled resurrection? We killed him, now she comes back to life, right?

Right?

Nope, but this guy will never kill again. I also take the Darwin approach, meaning if we keep killing people like this vomit stain, maybe nature will decide it is detrimental to the species to make people with these traits, as they die very early and are not often given a chance to reproduce.

Avery614: Nope, but this guy will never kill again. I also take the Darwin approach, meaning if we keep killing people like this vomit stain, maybe nature will decide it is detrimental to the species to make people with these traits, as they die very early and are not often given a chance to reproduce.

We should hurry evolution along by executing their parents (if fertile), siblings, and children too.

TappingTheVein: The UN Human Rights Council is a farce.

No wonder they refuse to address the abuse of women in Muslim countries under sharia.

Three points.

1. Your link did not adequately explain your assertion.
2. As your link noted, the UN HRC can censure and attempt to moderate government-protected, or secular rights. Sharia law is outside the purview of legislators as it is religious law, not affiliated with government. The only thing the government could do would be to ban sharia courts - something that would undoubtedly play out rather badly in strongly religious countries.
3. "Someone else does it too!" is never, never an adequate justification for human rights violations. This was true in Iraq, and this is true in Texas.

From what I understand, the guy was a piece of shiat who immigrated to US when he was 5. Mexico probably doesn't care about this guy, but they do care about the precedent of having their treaty rights violated. Why Texas couldn't wait a few more months to kill him, after sixteen years of waiting, is simply baffling.

ConConHead: I'll start caring about Mexican nationals when Mexico starts respecting our borders and does something about the influx of illegal trafficking on their end, both of humans and goods.

can't blame the messicans, they are only supplying what americans want. last I check no drug lord ever put a gun on an american's head and force him to smoke dope and like it.

Hand over criminals instead of executing them like they deserve?

The one truth in this is the way that Americans are treated abroad when prosectued. The irregularities in the Knox case. The fact that we debate about Middle Eastern prosecutions, particularly when our citizens are involved.

That said, this POS brutally raped and murdered a young girl. Defending him from the death penalty, not merely being found not guilty by legal reasoning, would have been really s****y.

When has killing someone ever been right?

How the fark did we get to a place where we have rules about being sufficiently sure of ourselves that we, as a group, know enough, after calm, cool, deliberation to purposefully and intentionally violate rule number one?

This is not war or self defense but a calm, cool, deliberate deliberate decision to kill another person, while having the full power to decide not to and all the resources necessary to avoid the necessity of killing.

Dear UN,

Fark you sternly.

Sincerely,

Texas

If you've got the brain power to rape and murder a child, you've got the brain power to sit in the chair. Do the crime, do the time. "Ignorance of the law is not a defence."

rolladuck: I see your argument, and raise this complimentary argument for your consideration:

In order to be a homo sapiens, one must merely be the offspring of two homo sapiens parents. There is a critical yet important distinction that must be made between calling someone a "human being" and calling a creature a homo sapiens. To be a human being, one must have the capacity to behave as a member of a society, as we humans are social animals and take great pride in the accomplishments of our societies. We must also be capable of, if not regularly display, rational thinking. Rational thinking is what has brought us the skills and knowledge that we have used to build the physical and logical constructs that power our world. One must also be able to have empathy for other humans and other creatures. We value compassion and we care for our fellow humans, as we understand that at some point, we too, may be subject to the hazards that have befallen our neighbors.
All three of these are necessary conditions to be human. A homo sapiens that lacks one of these is not a human being, but a dangerous animal that occupies a human body. The act of rape is an overt display of the lack of empathy for fellow humans, and further displays that the animal lacks the capacity for empathy for a human, as it is a deliberate, violent act upon a person's dignity. It provides no rational benefit for the perpetrator, and therefore is merely the display of violent and dangerous compulsions within one creature. The perpetrator is not a human being, but merely a dangerous homo sapiens animal.
We allow many animals to exist with us. We keep pets in our homes for companionship and entertainment, we domesticate animals for food and entertainment, and we encourage the growth of populations of wild decorative species--we are, after all, empathetic towards other creatures. We do not, however, allow dangerous animals to exist in our society. We kill them and dispose of the remains. It is therefore both rational and in the best interest of our society that animals such as this rapist and murderer be killed using whatever convenient means is available, and their carcasses discarded in the refuse.

THIS! THIS! 1000 TIMES THIS!

rolladuck: One must also be able to have empathy for other humans and other creatures. We value compassion and we care for our fellow humans, as we understand that at some point, we too, may be subject to the hazards that have befallen our neighbors...

...We do not, however, allow dangerous animals to exist in our society. We kill them and dispose of the remains. It is therefore both rational and in the best interest of our society that animals such as this rapist and murderer be killed using whatever convenient means is available, and their carcasses discarded in the refuse.

Given your lack of empathy for garbage disposal workers and the families of those animals who may value them, I can only conclude via your logic that you are another animal that should be killed and disposed of, efficiently.

If an American goes to Mexico, rapes a 16 year old girl, then sodomizes her with a 15" broken stick with a dry wall screw sticking out of it before bashing in her brains with 40 lbs. of asphalt, I really don't care what the Mexican government does to him.

/illegals just doing the killing, torturing and murdering American's won't

greyw1980: When has killing someone ever been right?

We didn't kill someone. We exterminated a dangerous pest. There is a difference.
We didn't chose. He chose. Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he was just a savage beast. Either way, he is dead.
Send his bones to Mexico.

Avery614: I mean really as long as we are violating our own treaties and international law and protocol, we may as well make sure manifest destiny spreads from north (looking at you next Canada) to south. Viva la United States of the Western Hemisphere.

alltandubh: It's a funny thing -- as much as I like and respect the United States as a country, if the US were ever to invade Canada I'd start making IEDs right away. Just as a matter of principle, you understand.

/no ITG

No worries, IF the U.S. ever decided to invade I'm pretty sure it would only be for some of the best sticky bud in the world (for which I love Canada). Honestly though, as an American, I grew up thinking of Canada and the UK as more like brother countries to the U.S. Same language, mostly, much of the same culture and heritage, not to mention Canada didn't almost sell us out in WWII (looking you Mexico). .If anything the red states may want to work a deal with your country to maybe take in all their liberals, they're screwing red state elections and all. All in all, I am sure if any country messed with the UK or Canada, the U.S.would provide our trademark bomb first ask questions later tatic, costly but effective (as long as you're not trying to make friends at any point with the people you are bombing).

There are higher authorities than the UN- whatever.

"Even if society should disband itself today and scatter to the four winds, every murderer in the jails should first be taken out and hanged."

- expression of Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative.

Avery614: Nope, but this guy will never kill again. I also take the Darwin approach, meaning if we keep killing people like this vomit stain, maybe nature will decide it is detrimental to the species to make people with these traits, as they die very early and are not often given a chance to reproduce.

TheWhoppah: We should hurry evolution along by executing their parents (if fertile), siblings, and children too

A bit drastic but I like the cut of your jibb. Forced sterilization should suffice......until they step out of line.....

He's not a diplomat. He's not an innocent foreign national caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. He's a rapist. He committed a felony while he was in the country illegally. Why all this hoopla?
I don't think he was ever denied the right to the Mexican consul. He probably just never asked for it.
He was in jail for 17 years and they never thought to get a Mexican diplomat there?

That's another thing that bugs me. Why are people put on death row and not executed until 20 years later? WHAT'S THE POINT?!

Wow Texas did something that wasnt legal while dealing with criminal?

Gotta love that whole cowboy thing.

It's pretty simple, if you want to rape and murder 16 year old girls and remain safe while doing so then you should have stayed in your own worthless country, where the corrupt police wouldn't give a shiat. Doing that kind of crime here in Texas means you face retributive execution.

raped and murdered a teenage girl.

I think most Mexicans (keep in mind he was raised in america from age 2) Would be cheering his death and be glad he can't hurt anyone any more.

Want to make this go away? just ask the embassy or mexican government if they are okay with it, i bet you they'd sign off on this dirtbag.

Floyd, you're an idiot troll. No one gives a rat's ass what you think about anything. GFY.

//and try to work on your reading comprehension. Like everything else about you, it sucks.

colithian: He's not a diplomat. He's not an innocent foreign national caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. He's a rapist. He committed a felony while he was in the country illegally. Why all this hoopla?
I don't think he was ever denied the right to the Mexican consul. He probably just never asked for it.
He was in jail for 17 years and they never thought to get a Mexican diplomat there?

That's another thing that bugs me. Why are people put on death row and not executed until 20 years later? WHAT'S THE POINT?!

Appeals process takes a long time, and it looks bad if you execute someone then find out they were innocent

I wish we had known the Mexican government wanted this pendejo before he became a murdering pendejo. We would have gladly sent his arse south.

Signed,
Texas

MeinRS6: If we did something that the UN doesn't like, then that means we did the right thing.

hit the nail on the head my good man

Capital punishment is always wrong so Texas is in an indefensible position. There's literally nothing they can say that has any relevance unless they're ready to accept that capital punishment is morally depraved and incompatible with legitimate governance. Texas has no government as far as I'm concerned. It's a territory controlled by an armed gang.

Turbo Cojones: ORLY Smartie?

Who was the last US citizen executed by a Mexican State court again?

/We're waiting!

I see what you did there. It's a trick question. The courts, and government in general, have no power in Mexico. It's the drug lords that do their killing, mostly Mexicans but also scores of innocent Americans. At least the government must want Americans killed, otherwise, they would put a stop to it. Mexico is the most dysfunctional country in the Americas (save Haiti), and that's saying something.

Cyclometh: As an aside, nothing being discussed here has anything to do with Leal's guilt, innocence or appropriate punishment. It's about the process- in the end if the US expects to be accorded the rights described under the Vienna Convention, it must accord those rights to other nations, regardless of other considerations.

We can unilaterally ignore it, as the SCOTUS has opened the door to simply retcon our ratification of the Convention out of existence- but then it gets a lot tougher to conduct international diplomacy, and a LOT harder for Americans to travel anywhere without being at increased risk of imprisonment or worse without recourse.

Well, as far as I can tell, this is not a normal issue of US law because it's ruling on a treaty term, which AFAIK is all Executive Branch doings. It was not created by Legislative, so its nature is not entirely consistent with a "law".

This agreement is not a LAW within the US, that's the problem. So, enforcement of this treaty seems to be that the Executive promised to give defendants access to the Mexican Consulate, but it is not a legal right recognized by the Judicial.

jehovahs witness protection 2011-07-08 04:44:55 PM
FloydA: MeinRS6: If we did something that the UN doesn't like, then that means we did the right thing.

Yeah, human rights are bad!

Yeah, like the rights of the girl he raped and murdered.

I'm sure you still feel that way when the tables are turned, right? Right?
Link (new window)

This whole thing actually makes my head spin.

The UN and the US Federal Government have told local law enforcement that it is against human rights and illegal for them to ask the immigration status of ANYONE they have detained or interacted with.

Now, in regards to this case, the UN and the US Federal Government have decided that local law enforcement have violated his Leal* rights by informing him of his right to consular counsel. But they weren't allowed to ask if he was a citizen or not. So they violated his Leal rights.

* Miranda is Miranda, Leal is now "You have the right to seek counsel from the consulate of your country of origin if you are from another country, but you can not tell us if you are from another country as we are forbidden from asking you"

IanMoone 2011-07-08 11:15:13 PM
This whole thing actually makes my head spin.

The UN and the US Federal Government have told local law enforcement that it is against human rights and illegal for them to ask the immigration status of ANYONE they have detained or interacted with.

Now, in regards to this case, the UN and the US Federal Government have decided that local law enforcement have violated his Leal* rights by informing him of his right to consular counsel. But they weren't allowed to ask if he was a citizen or not. So they violated his Leal rights.

* Miranda is Miranda, Leal is now "You have the right to seek counsel from the consulate of your country of origin if you are from another country, but you can not tell us if you are from another country as we are forbidden from asking you"

Folks, meet the average Fox viewer.

No harm done folks, It was just a filthy mexican that was here from across the border. So, have faith in the system that justice was done. The only thing we could have done better would have been to give him a free ride home, via air plane with no parachute and kick him out at around 5000ft, right on the border.
Now opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one, and this is MINE!!

dstrick44: jehovahs witness protection 2011-07-08 04:44:55 PM
FloydA: MeinRS6: If we did something that the UN doesn't like, then that means we did the right thing.

Yeah, human rights are bad!

Yeah, like the rights of the girl he raped and murdered.

I'm sure you still feel that way when the tables are turned, right? Right?
Link (new window)

Just so I understand, your argument is that the girl who was raped and murdered 16 years ago would have her rights suddenly violated if the execution was stayed a few months while Mexico looked at the case?

starsrift:



Just so I understand, your argument is that the girl who was raped and murdered 16 years ago would have her rights suddenly violated if the execution was stayed a few months while Mexico looked at the case?

No, you completely don't understand.

This piece of trash made this farkin appeal in 1998. You know, 13 years ago. I think Mexico had a bit of time in the last 13 years to look into this case.

Geesh, you are stupid.

That's okay illegal aliens in Texas will kill more citizens this weekend than have ever been executed by the state.

ElvisThroop: Oh no, not a strongly worded letter!

Hopefully Gov Perry will use it to light the wood for a cookout this weekend

Plz don't kick the wasp nest. Plz!

dstrick44:

Because Fox News reports what other outlets are saying?

Read them for a change. The Obama administration is concerned that the POLICE violated his rights by not informing him of his right to seek consular counsel.

At the same time the same administration sued Arizona to prevent Arizona cops from asking detainees their citizenship status. If a cop is not able to ask if someone is a citizen, how can they inform them of their rights to consular counsel?

If the non-Fox News media is reporting it wrong, call them out. They aren't saying the courts, they are saying the POLICE.

2 points:

Number one, for all you "but what about the victim's rights?" people: The only right you have when your rights are violated by another person is the right to pursue legal remedy. Either you have the guy's ass arrested and/or you sue him. END OF FARKING LIST!

Number two, this idiocy by Texas doesn't just affect Americans. Do you think some dumbass police sargeant in Cancun gives a damn if the gringo he's screwing over is American or Canadian? Some whitey is going to return to his hotel room and find a 5 lbs brick of weed on his bed and 10 VERY smug looking cops waiting for him. Hope this guy has $100,000 in cash or the ability to do 20 years.

tenpoundsofcheese: starsrift:



Just so I understand, your argument is that the girl who was raped and murdered 16 years ago would have her rights suddenly violated if the execution was stayed a few months while Mexico looked at the case?

No, you completely don't understand.

This piece of trash made this farkin appeal in 1998. You know, 13 years ago. I think Mexico had a bit of time in the last 13 years to look into this case.

Geesh, you are stupid.

Interesting. TFA says that Leal was not granted consular access. You're saying he had it 13 years ago? Or that Texas routinely publishes all legal correspondence to Mexico?

Weaver95: Marcus Aurelius: At least the guy wasn't a retard. Because Texas LOVES executing retards.

unless they're Republican. then they elect them to office.

sorry...that was unkind of me...

Considering that Democrats prefer to abort their retards, I'd say that what you just said hardly qualifies as unkind.