Just watched T3 last night, it was god awful.

But yea the really strange part was Optimus dropping his IQ by about 40 points. At one point he reffuses to change form because hes pissed.

wtf.

idiotic? I think you meant idiotic.

/and yes I read the douche rocket article.

I found that movie Transformers tend to be a lot more fragile than TV ones. TV? Bots get blowed up on a weekly basis (especially Waspinator) and are fine the next week. Movies? One glancing blow and suddenly they aren't making your toy anymore (although I may have my cause and effect backwards on that one). In the Bay movies, the Decipticons sound like badass warriors but the seem to go down like mooks.

I'm still not sure why Jetstorm had to rip out his own spark just to give Optimus a fleeting tactical advantage

In the cartoon movie, didn't he run down and/or gun down something like half a dozen or more Decepticons while they were attacking the Autobot city? That's the image I had in my mind as he was doing almost the exact same thing near the end of this movie. Maybe this writer didn't watch the cartoons as a kid, and only remembers them from his older brothers or something.

You should see his derpy brother Pessimus Prime.

Link (new window)

That's not what this review says.

farscape: Just watched T3 last night, it was god awful.

But yea the really strange part was Optimus dropping his IQ by about 40 points. At one point he reffuses to change form because hes pissed.

wtf.

ok so i havent seen it. But im trying to be optimistic (Pun?). Now at the outset, it doesnt seem too ridiculous for the autobots to leave and let chicago get destroyed. Im sure the stupid american govt people will make it hard for them not to leave. So that doesnt bother me. I can sort of see that.

Although not changing form because hes upset? thats troubling. Unless a major theme in the movie is that Optimus is starting to dislike humans in general.

You didn't need to watch T3 to get this, it was in the opening of Transformers 2. They have the Decepticon down and here comes Prime, his gun in hand, and he says, "Any last words, Decepticon?" O.k., when did Prime become so bloodthirsty? And then after the Decepticon gives the line about the Fallen, Prime blasts it in the head to kill it.

See, that's not Optimus Prime. That scene told me that Michael Bay and the other folks behind the movie had no idea how to portray the Autobots. The first movie at least was close - Prime was willing to sacrifice himself to stop Megatron, didn't want Sam to be hurt, all that sort of stuff. Prime was heroic. In 2 and 3 he's like a Vietnam vet who's snapped after watching one too many History Channel documentaries.

Optimus Prime is a sociopathic idiot douchebag.

Then so is Obama. At a certain point in a conflict, the gloves have to come off. They did with Japan in WWII. Same for Obama dealing with bin Ladin. At a certain point, you're playing for keeps and morality is only a side issue. The conflict's got to end, one way or another. I think that's what you see with Optimus in TDotM. There ain't no peace and never gonna be no peace so go whole hog and exterminate your foes with extreme prejudice.

fawlty: Optimus Prime is a sociopathic idiot douchebag.

Then so is Obama. At a certain point in a conflict, the gloves have to come off. They did with Japan in WWII. Same for Obama dealing with bin Ladin. At a certain point, you're playing for keeps and morality is only a side issue. The conflict's got to end, one way or another. I think that's what you see with Optimus in TDotM. There ain't no peace and never gonna be no peace so go whole hog and exterminate your foes with extreme prejudice.

ok i know your trying to thread jack, but i think your a bit off buddy. From what im hearing, it doesnt sound like he went all gloves off. It sounds like hes getting biatchy.

fawlty: Optimus Prime is a sociopathic idiot douchebag.

Then so is Obama. At a certain point in a conflict, the gloves have to come off. They did with Japan in WWII. Same for Obama dealing with bin Ladin. At a certain point, you're playing for keeps and morality is only a side issue. The conflict's got to end, one way or another. I think that's what you see with Optimus in TDotM. There ain't no peace and never gonna be no peace so go whole hog and exterminate your foes with extreme prejudice.

Especially after Sentinel Prime...[SPOILERS ]....


betrays him and kills his friends. Someone he looked up to, was his mentor, decides the only way to get things back is to work with the Decipticons and enslave the humans. Optimus's emotion control circuits must have been going haywire.

vinnydoz007: ok i know your trying to thread jack, but i think your a bit off buddy. From what im hearing, it doesnt sound like he went all gloves off. It sounds like hes getting biatchy.

I saw it on Saturday. I was surprised by the, it's hard to describe other than "change," in Optimus, altho that's not really accurate. Call it Optimus Unleashed. I just typed what I thought and actually explained to my son afterwards because it was somewhat shocking. It's not a threadjack. I think Bay may have been trying to say that, at a certain point, you can't sweat "arresting" people anymore. it won't work. you have to kill them to end it. I think Obama came to the same conclusion re: bin Ladin. As far as letting Chicago burn, that's not accurate and someone in the comments section of TFA shows why.

Pashc: In the cartoon movie, didn't he run down and/or gun down something like half a dozen or more Decepticons while they were attacking the Autobot city?

If I recall, yes. I distinctly remember him in truck form running over several... and then he transforms and leaps up into the air, shooting down several more, before finally landing on his feet as doves fly past him in the background. Okay, no doves, but everything is better with doves.

You COULD argue that, although they were all ran over and shot, that they were simply disabled and not killed. Chances are they weren't, considering Ultra Magnus got killed from a few shots later in the movie. (And then put back together and given a good waxing to come back to life.)

Now in the TV series it makes sense that no one is seriously maimed or killed... you need to show up in later episodes and sell toys.

The nerd rage is strong in this one

Thanks, Mikey.

Sounds like they turned Optimus Prime into a crazy, vindictive ex-girlfriend.

And let's not forget that the comic book Batman wouldn't just let someone die. After all that's what cost Jean Paul Valley (Azrael) his job as the Batman, letting Abattoir fall into a vat of molten lava. Bruce Wayne is shocked by this and ends up taking back the mantle of the bat as a result. Of course he was also appalled that Abattoir's cousin died as a result of Abattoir dying, but certainly failing to try and save Abattoir was enough.

Then at the end of Batman Begins, Batman utters the line (paraphrasing) "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you," to Ra's Al Ghul on the elevated train, and then he escapes the train, leaving him to his fate.

So basically... it's easy in the comics to be moral and upstanding... but that doesn't always translate as well to the movies.

That being said, I do remember that scene with Optimus and I remember thinking "Wow, Optimus is a dick if he let all those people die just so he could get the humans back on his side." But I'm not offended by either of these scenes at all, it's just something I accept that movies are going to be different from comics.

Also, to the earlier reference to the Transformers animated movie where Optimus Prime mows down a bunch of Decepticons attacking Autobot City to get to Megatron (personally that sequence is one of my favorite scenes from any movie that I've ever seen) Optimus doesn't actually kill any of them, just serious injures them, they're still functioning by the time they end up at Unicron.

TF2_Pyro: You COULD argue that, although they were all ran over and shot, that they were simply disabled and not killed. Chances are they weren't, considering Ultra Magnus got killed from a few shots later in the movie. (And then put back together and given a good waxing to come back to life.)

Now in the TV series it makes sense that no one is seriously maimed or killed... you need to show up in later episodes and sell toys.

First of all, I'm usually more lively after I've been waxed really good, so there's that.

Second, WheelJack, Windcharger, Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide, and Ratchet, among others, didn't make it past the initial assault in the original The Movie. You gotta make room for the new product on the shelves.

BTW, it seems most of DOTM is cribbed quite a bit from G1 episodes this time around. Like this. Ultimate Doom (new window)

Optimal_Illusion: BTW, it seems most of DOTM is cribbed quite a bit from G1 episodes this time around. Like this. Ultimate Doom (new window)

Oh yeah. It had The Ultimate Doom, Megatron's Master Plan and that bit at the Lincoln Memorial from Atlantis, Arise. I thought it was kinda cool they had elements of those episodes.

The blog writer is kinda reaching here.

It's a war. The fact that the bad guys just killed an entire city deserves Prime's behaviour.
A movie tries to be more realistic than cartoons (shaddup), in real life, you would want to prevent an attempted genocide from happening again. So *blam*, kill the bad guy. Done. None of this "shucks you rascal, we got you this time, but let's just lock you away somehow".

And the hiding thing does make sense to a degree. They were doing it to trick the Decepticons into really thinking they were not only gone, but actually dead. They then now have the element of surprise. And when there are 9 of you, vs hundreds, that's a pretty good thing to have.

The ONLY problem I have, is they won't let Optimus win a fight.
In the first one, Megatron kicks his ass
In the second on- ++ERROR FILE NOT FOUND DOES NOT EXIST++
And in the third one, Sentinel kicks his ass

The only reason he beat Megatron in the third one is because Megatron was half dead already. Other than that, I'm glad he goes a little mental and tries to kill the bad guys. That's how you get shiat done.

Wow, I feel that Optimus is a sociopath, but for the completely opposite reason of the blogger. To me he's a sociopath because he's too soft. He's too willing to let humans and fellow Autobots die, all in the name of mercy. Yeah, he got a little bit of backbone towards the end of T3, but that was it. He should have kicked ass from the beginning, instead of moping around like emo Spider Man.

i agree with all point except one. the reason that the Autobots took so long to get to Chicago was that they were dropped into the Atlantic after they were jettisoned from the rocket. During the time Chicago was being turned into Detroit they were hot footing it there but it would have taken them hours of driving.

Hitler finds out that Megan Fox is not in Transformers 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr3T-3Iv9gw (new window)


/Plus he's still angry at Bay for not letting Scarlett go topless in The Island.

Fricknmaniac: Also, to the earlier reference to the Transformers animated movie where Optimus Prime mows down a bunch of Decepticons attacking Autobot City to get to Megatron (personally that sequence is one of my favorite scenes from any movie that I've ever seen) Optimus doesn't actually kill any of them, just serious injures them, they're still functioning by the time they end up at Unicron.

See also: Stasis Lock (new window)

Dr. Whoof: You didn't need to watch T3 to get this, it was in the opening of Transformers 2. They have the Decepticon down and here comes Prime, his gun in hand, and he says, "Any last words, Decepticon?" O.k., when did Prime become so bloodthirsty? And then after the Decepticon gives the line about the Fallen, Prime blasts it in the head to kill it.

See, that's not Optimus Prime. That scene told me that Michael Bay and the other folks behind the movie had no idea how to portray the Autobots. The first movie at least was close - Prime was willing to sacrifice himself to stop Megatron, didn't want Sam to be hurt, all that sort of stuff. Prime was heroic. In 2 and 3 he's like a Vietnam vet who's snapped after watching one too many History Channel documentaries.

I have to agree. Optimus Prime has always been the heroic boy scout sort of character, not the bloodthirsty individual he is in TF2 and 3. In both films he kills someone who is incapacitated, at a disadvantage, or, in the third film, on the verge of begging for mercy.

That's not Optimus Prime.

There's also at least one scene in each film where the Autobots brutally dismember a Decepticon -- particularly in the third film.

I wondered about the whole being dropped in the Atlantic thing, but then I thought about how easy it was for Prime and a few others to get to the moon and back and it seemed a bit convenient that they couldn't get to Chicago a little sooner.

What I did love was the little bit of foreshadowing they did at the beginning. The two little autobots are watching the old Star Trek episode Amok Time and one says to the other "This is the one where Spock goes nuts." Given that Sentinel Prime was voiced by Leonard Nimoy, it turned out to be a very clever little scene. I didn't like the use of the "The needs of the many..." line though.

Aboleth: Optimal_Illusion: BTW, it seems most of DOTM is cribbed quite a bit from G1 episodes this time around. Like this. Ultimate Doom (new window)

Oh yeah. It had The Ultimate Doom, Megatron's Master Plan and that bit at the Lincoln Memorial from Atlantis, Arise. I thought it was kinda cool they had elements of those episodes.

The sad part was, the cartoon depicted some of it in a more realistic manner...

Pashc: In the cartoon movie, didn't he run down and/or gun down something like half a dozen or more Decepticons while they were attacking the Autobot city? That's the image I had in my mind as he was doing almost the exact same thing near the end of this movie. Maybe this writer didn't watch the cartoons as a kid, and only remembers them from his older brothers or something.

Correct, but if I remember correctly, the only Decepticon that actually perished in the movie was Starscream (killed by Galvatron). At least that is what I got from it.

Prime's character in the cartoon always seemed to be the reluctant warrior, having to do things and fight a war that he really didn't want to. Even before the fight with Megatron in the animated movie, Prime states that Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost. I sensed the reluctance in that statement. Then Prime transformed and took off alone, even though 2 other Autobots (Hound and Sunstreaker, I believe) were getting off the shuttle at the same time.

I get the author's point in the article. I just can't understand why the author can't grasp that the Autobots and Decepticons were at war and bad things happen in war and, sometimes, less than desireable changes occur to the participants in said war. For all intents and purposes, Audie Murphy was a gentle person, until he was sent to war and became the most decorated American soldier ever... for KILLING as many Germans as he could and I'm sure not all of them were dispatched in a pretty way.

I haven't seen the latest live action movie, and I won't, but if an entire city is allowed to be destroyed in order to prove a point, I concur that this is a douchebag move.

Liams_Soul: I wondered about the whole being dropped in the Atlantic thing, but then I thought about how easy it was for Prime and a few others to get to the moon and back and it seemed a bit convenient that they couldn't get to Chicago a little sooner.

What I did love was the little bit of foreshadowing they did at the beginning. The two little autobots are watching the old Star Trek episode Amok Time and one says to the other "This is the one where Spock goes nuts." Given that Sentinel Prime was voiced by Leonard Nimoy, it turned out to be a very clever little scene. I didn't like the use of the "The needs of the many..." line though.

Yeah, I thought that line was a little tacked on too. Particularly since the "many" should have been the billions of humans... vs the few hundred Transformers.

The author is a douchebag for not seeing the scene for what is is.

The humans (in this case USA) took advantage of the Autobots by making them be their one-man army. The disbursed Autobots to the Middle East and other nasty regions to take out the infidels by, *gasp* killing them. The author obviously missed those scenes.

After all the Autobots had done, at the end the U.N. (who are useless even in movies) decide the Decepticons must be trustworthy by banishing the Autobots. U.N. never enver consider asking or consulting the Autobots. We see clearly that the spaceship is blown up, and surprise not one mention of some asshat in the U.N. uttering "hhheeeyyyyy, we've been had..."

Optimus arrived late into Chicago ready, willing to destroy the Decepticons. And, for who? Yes, the farking humans. The same humans who sent the Autobots on a doomed ship to be blown up.

Author somehow missed the point where this is WAR. If Optiums did not flat out kill Sentinal or Megatron then they'd be back to try again. This time line their ducks in a perfect row. The author missed that Sentinal Prime is the only one to farking create the rods, control the rods to bring Cybertron into the Earth. What makes anyone think he won't try again?

In my opinion Batman and even Superman are douchebags for gloating their better then mere mortals. They allow the bad guys to live (and escape to try again). Batman and Superman allow people to be killed with their supreme holier-than-thou attitude.

Optimus was the only one willing to keep Earth safe.

Makes you wish Michael Bay was more of a Go-Bots fan, doesn't it?

WilderKWight: Makes you wish Michael Bay was more of a Go-Bots fan, doesn't it?

Kenny Bates .... co-producer (as Ken Bates)
Michael Bay .... executive producer
Ian Bryce .... producer
Allegra Clegg .... co-producer
Matthew Cohan .... associate producer
Tom DeSanto .... producer
Lorenzo di Bonaventura .... producer
Brian Goldner .... executive producer
Michelle McGonagle .... associate producer
Don Murphy .... producer
Lorne Orleans .... IMAX version
Steven Spielberg .... executive producer
George Strayton .... transmedia producer
Mark Vahradian .... executive producer


ALL of these people are to blame.

fawlty: vinnydoz007: ok i know your trying to thread jack, but i think your a bit off buddy. From what im hearing, it doesnt sound like he went all gloves off. It sounds like hes getting biatchy.

I saw it on Saturday. I was surprised by the, it's hard to describe other than "change," in Optimus, altho that's not really accurate. Call it Optimus Unleashed. I just typed what I thought and actually explained to my son afterwards because it was somewhat shocking. It's not a threadjack. I think Bay may have been trying to say that, at a certain point, you can't sweat "arresting" people anymore. it won't work. you have to kill them to end it. I think Obama came to the same conclusion re: bin Ladin. As far as letting Chicago burn, that's not accurate and someone in the comments section of TFA shows why.

Read Imperial Hubris. That is the exact point of the book. Very interesting.

sure haven't: The blog writer is kinda reaching here.

It's a war. The fact that the bad guys just killed an entire city deserves Prime's behaviour.
A movie tries to be more realistic than cartoons (shaddup), in real life, you would want to prevent an attempted genocide from happening again. So *blam*, kill the bad guy. Done. None of this "shucks you rascal, we got you this time, but let's just lock you away somehow".

And the hiding thing does make sense to a degree. They were doing it to trick the Decepticons into really thinking they were not only gone, but actually dead. They then now have the element of surprise. And when there are 9 of you, vs hundreds, that's a pretty good thing to have.

The ONLY problem I have, is they won't let Optimus win a fight.
In the first one, Megatron kicks his ass
In the second on- ++ERROR FILE NOT FOUND DOES NOT EXIST++
And in the third one, Sentinel kicks his ass

The only reason he beat Megatron in the third one is because Megatron was half dead already. Other than that, I'm glad he goes a little mental and tries to kill the bad guys. That's how you get shiat done.

Wait, the Sentry beat Prime too? Who didn't he beat in his brief lifespan.

"the only Transformer who actually cared that they were, you know, the last of their race."

That was never part of any mainstream Transformers continuity. And for good reason; how are you going to sell new lines of toys unless there are armies of new characters back on Cybertron waiting to be introduced?

The main point is not wrong, though. G1 Optimus does not want you to give him your face.

Pashc: In the cartoon movie, didn't he run down and/or gun down something like half a dozen or more Decepticons while they were attacking the Autobot city?

It's arguable whether any of the 'Cons he melee'd through in the '86 movie actually suffered mortal damage in that sequence (with the possible exception of the Insecticon whose head is crushed, but that was probably a clone anyway.)

And Prime was reticent to exercise even that amount of violence, justifying it only by that Megatron had to be stopped "no matter the cost."

But other than that, I suppose there are some parallels with Bay's SposplosionFest '11.

Galvatron Zero: Dr. Whoof: You didn't need to watch T3 to get this, it was in the opening of Transformers 2. They have the Decepticon down and here comes Prime, his gun in hand, and he says, "Any last words, Decepticon?" O.k., when did Prime become so bloodthirsty? And then after the Decepticon gives the line about the Fallen, Prime blasts it in the head to kill it.

See, that's not Optimus Prime. That scene told me that Michael Bay and the other folks behind the movie had no idea how to portray the Autobots. The first movie at least was close - Prime was willing to sacrifice himself to stop Megatron, didn't want Sam to be hurt, all that sort of stuff. Prime was heroic. In 2 and 3 he's like a Vietnam vet who's snapped after watching one too many History Channel documentaries.

I have to agree. Optimus Prime has always been the heroic boy scout sort of character, not the bloodthirsty individual he is in TF2 and 3. In both films he kills someone who is incapacitated, at a disadvantage, or, in the third film, on the verge of begging for mercy.

That's not Optimus Prime.

There's also at least one scene in each film where the Autobots brutally dismember a Decepticon -- particularly in the third film.


The Autobots aren't going to beat the Decepticons with hugs and kisses. Especially since the intent of the Decepticons was to enslave all humans and kill all the autobots. They watched their friends get executed in front of them. At some point you just gotta kick some ass.

Apeleutheros: They watched their friends get executed in front of them. At some point you just gotta kick some ass.

Do you have to fight and kill? Yes.

Do you have to execute prisoners and desecrate the corpses of your enemies? No.

Bay's Autobots don't make a distinction.

Galvatron Zero: Liams_Soul: I wondered about the whole being dropped in the Atlantic thing, but then I thought about how easy it was for Prime and a few others to get to the moon and back and it seemed a bit convenient that they couldn't get to Chicago a little sooner.

What I did love was the little bit of foreshadowing they did at the beginning. The two little autobots are watching the old Star Trek episode Amok Time and one says to the other "This is the one where Spock goes nuts." Given that Sentinel Prime was voiced by Leonard Nimoy, it turned out to be a very clever little scene. I didn't like the use of the "The needs of the many..." line though.

Yeah, I thought that line was a little tacked on too. Particularly since the "many" should have been the billions of humans... vs the few hundred Transformers.


Not if you include the billions of decepticons on Cybertron, which was being pulled into Earth's atmosphere. Besides, they look at humans as little more than insects.

There's one thing my dad always told me at the end of action movies: "Always kill the bad guy."

Every time they don't, it just makes for more trouble later. See: Megatron

Apeleutheros: Galvatron Zero: Liams_Soul: I wondered about the whole being dropped in the Atlantic thing, but then I thought about how easy it was for Prime and a few others to get to the moon and back and it seemed a bit convenient that they couldn't get to Chicago a little sooner.

What I did love was the little bit of foreshadowing they did at the beginning. The two little autobots are watching the old Star Trek episode Amok Time and one says to the other "This is the one where Spock goes nuts." Given that Sentinel Prime was voiced by Leonard Nimoy, it turned out to be a very clever little scene. I didn't like the use of the "The needs of the many..." line though.

Yeah, I thought that line was a little tacked on too. Particularly since the "many" should have been the billions of humans... vs the few hundred Transformers.


Not if you include the billions of decepticons on Cybertron, which was being pulled into Earth's atmosphere. Besides, they look at humans as little more than insects.

Maybe it's just me, but I gathered from the movie that Cybertron was a desolate wasteland that needed to be rebuilt. It didn't strike me that there were all that many Decepticons left on Cybertron. But your point is well taken on the fact that they do look at humans as insects.

My main issue with the "Needs of the many" line had more to do with being a little too much of an "on the nose" reference to Nimoy and Spock than the more subtle one used earlier in the film. It was almost like Bay was screaming,

"Hey fan boys! We got Leonard Nimoy to play Sentinel Prime! Leonard Nimoy! Ya know... Spock! Come watch my movie, 'cause everybody loves Spock amiright?"

Maybe Sentinel Prime was right.

"homicidal ninja douche rocket" is possibly the most epic phrase ever include in a movie review.

That is all.

poot_rootbeer: Do you have to fight and kill? Yes.

Do you have to execute prisoners and desecrate the corpses of your enemies? No.

Bay's Autobots don't make a distinction.

I can buy the whole "it's a war, a realistic war" bit, but if we're going to be realistic, unless you're literally in the midst of combat and have to take the life of your enemy, a live captive is usually worth a lot more than a dead combatant.

See Transformers 2 for an example - that Decepticon at the beginning clearly knew something. It's spouting about something called the Fallen, and instead of taking it captive and interrogating it, Optimus blows its brains out. Why? What purpose did that serve other than to make Optimus look like a "bad ass"? Assuming they could have gotten any info out of the 'con, it could have prevented half of the destruction that occurred in the film!

You can't play the "war" card and then ignore the bits where they do something counter to that idea. You can't say Optimus was going to stop the 'cons no matter the cost and yet went along with the humans shipping the 'bots off on a ship. If he was so adamant, he wouldn't have left, even as a ruse. Who would really be able to stop him? It just doesn't make sense.

Fano: sure haven't: The blog writer is kinda reaching here.

It's a war. The fact that the bad guys just killed an entire city deserves Prime's behaviour.
A movie tries to be more realistic than cartoons (shaddup), in real life, you would want to prevent an attempted genocide from happening again. So *blam*, kill the bad guy. Done. None of this "shucks you rascal, we got you this time, but let's just lock you away somehow".

And the hiding thing does make sense to a degree. They were doing it to trick the Decepticons into really thinking they were not only gone, but actually dead. They then now have the element of surprise. And when there are 9 of you, vs hundreds, that's a pretty good thing to have.

The ONLY problem I have, is they won't let Optimus win a fight.
In the first one, Megatron kicks his ass
In the second on- ++ERROR FILE NOT FOUND DOES NOT EXIST++
And in the third one, Sentinel kicks his ass

The only reason he beat Megatron in the third one is because Megatron was half dead already. Other than that, I'm glad he goes a little mental and tries to kill the bad guys. That's how you get shiat done.

Wait, the Sentry beat Prime too? Who didn't he beat in his brief lifespan.

Guntothehead-itis.

ba-doom-tsh!

/my only regret... is that I didn't cure my... bonitis