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(Wall Street Journal)   For the first time in decades, the United States is losing investment dollars. This is bad news... for you   (online.wsj.com) divider line 138
    More: Obvious, United States, BEA, foreign investment, foreign capital, government debt, production system, american companies, windmills  
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3626 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jul 2011 at 12:51 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-07-06 09:32:26 AM  
Perhaps foreign investors are worried about the uncertainty created when congressional Republicans insist that cutting deficits their way is so important, that they must drive the US economy off a cliff to prove that point.
 
2011-07-06 12:34:56 PM  
Obviously this means we need higher taxes and more regulations.

Soumac: Perhaps foreign investors are worried about the uncertainty created when congressional Republicans insist that cutting deficits their way is so important, that they must drive the US economy off a cliff to prove that point.


No, they are worried about what crazy new programs, taxes, and regulations the administration is going to pass. With all the government innovation going on nobody can make long term investment plans so they are instead making plans elsewhere. The economy is unbalanced and until the correction takes place, nobody knows what really is profitable and what isn't. The longer the government drags this out with intervention and low interest rates the worse it will be.

Government does not and cannot create wealth. It can only dissipate and destroy wealth through its interventions. It is the private sector through voluntary exchange which can produce new wealth. Our tax code and regulations are too complicated and too overbearing, raising costs and making it less profitable to employ people in the US. There IS a middle ground between "no regulation" and "regulated to death".

spreadthesymbol.org

How the defects are cut is another matter. The fact is that they will be cut one way or another and the government will default on much of its SS and Medicare promises as the unfunded liabilities cannot be met. What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union. We can either take on the problem in a semi-organized fashion or we can argue about trivial amounts of cuts until the whole mess goes off a cliff when foreigners stop lending to us and interest rates skyrocket.
 
2011-07-06 12:47:10 PM  
No, they are worried about what crazy new programs, taxes, and regulations the administration is going to pass. With all the government innovation going on nobody can make long term investment plans so they are instead making plans elsewhere.

jesus, are we still flogging this talking point? i've been hearing it since obama entered office. at what point do these pussy captains of industry start reinvesting in their companies despite the nefarious threats of trickery coming from the white house?
 
2011-07-06 12:53:01 PM  
Get me Eric Cantor's broker on line 1!
 
2011-07-06 12:54:00 PM  
I am in the beginning stages of taking some investment abroad so I am really getting a kick out of these replies. It must mean I hate fartbongo and the uncertainty of his policies.
 
2011-07-06 12:54:53 PM  

Crosshair: The fact is that they will be cut one way or another and the government will default on much of its SS and Medicare promises as the unfunded liabilities cannot be met. What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union.


what leads you to this conclusion and over what time-frame? why is greece tumbling over the edge while japan, which has almost twice as much debt/gdp as greece, is still doing relatively well?
 
2011-07-06 12:55:48 PM  

thomps: jesus, are we still flogging this talking point?


The right has been beating the "republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility" drum since the Reagan administration despite running massive deficits so you can expect to hear about uncertainty introduced by the white house as an issue as long as there is a democrat holding the office of president.
 
2011-07-06 12:57:05 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: thomps: jesus, are we still flogging this talking point?

The right has been beating the "republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility" drum since the Reagan administration despite running massive deficits so you can expect to hear about uncertainty introduced by the white house as an issue as long as there is a democrat holding the office of president.


But passing massive tax cuts on a temporary basis so that no one can do efficient long term planning? A-OK!
 
2011-07-06 12:57:47 PM  
What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union.

*facepalm*
 
2011-07-06 12:59:47 PM  
Done in two. Thank you, Crosshair, for once again proving that conservative talking points will always be superior to liberal talking points.
 
2011-07-06 12:59:50 PM  
Perhaps because they realize that Republicans are going cause the US to default on it's debts?
 
2011-07-06 01:00:14 PM  

Crosshair: Government does not and cannot create wealth. It can only dissipate and destroy wealth through its interventions. It is the private sector through voluntary exchange which can produce new wealth. Our tax code and regulations are too complicated and too overbearing, raising costs and making it less profitable to employ people in the US. There IS a middle ground between "no regulation" and "regulated to death".


Except that the Government's interventions, as of late, have been in favor of those who hoard wealth at the expense of everything else. For instance, the Protect IP act and the refusal by the government to even raise taxes one penny on luxuries like private jets.

The economy was the most successful when the government was maintaining a balance between the rich and the poor. The best example of this was the 1950s and 1960s.
 
2011-07-06 01:00:17 PM  
America is a low-growth country outside of technology sectors. Why would anyone invest here if they're looking to make lots of money? There's far more money to be made in BRIC, and, for the truly entrepreneurial, Eastern Africa. America is a safe investment but a low-yielding one.
 
2011-07-06 01:01:13 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: thomps: jesus, are we still flogging this talking point?

The right has been beating the "republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility" drum since the Reagan administration despite running massive deficits so you can expect to hear about uncertainty introduced by the white house as an issue as long as there is a democrat holding the office of president.


and it's not even uncertainty based on proposed policy changes, just the looming threat of the possibility of proposing policy changes will freeze corporate america in abject terror. only sarah palin can bring calm back to american board rooms.
 
2011-07-06 01:02:11 PM  

Crosshair: What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union


More like the US will go the way of the Weimar Republic if the Republicans have anything to say about it...
 
2011-07-06 01:03:05 PM  
TFA: In 2010, for example, U.S. investment abroad was $351 billion-$115 billion higher than foreign investment here. Economic recoveries are periods when investment capital usually surges into a country, but since this weakling rebound began in the middle of 2009 the U.S. has lost more than $200 billion in investment capital

So now the investment capital is trickling down outside the US? Why is this not surprising?

Cue the calls for lower corporate taxes and reduced regulations... oh wait, Crosshair is already flogging that dead horse for all he's worth.
 
2011-07-06 01:03:30 PM  
Maybe if those who received the investment dollars did something with it instead of sitting on it, we'd see more money come in.
 
2011-07-06 01:04:25 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Done in two. Thank you, Crosshair, for once again proving that conservative talking points will always be superior to liberal talking points.


mike, how can you expect us to take you seriously when you don't even accompany your posts with political cartoons?
 
2011-07-06 01:04:58 PM  
What I read in my brief skim of the article:

"Hey everyone! I cherry picked this number out of thousands of economic metrics because it's slightly negative. According to me it's the mostest important number ever. I will now use it to attack the President and throw out the usual right wing spin that everything is ruined forever if we are not in power."



I expect no less from a WSJ opinion piece.
 
2011-07-06 01:05:52 PM  
This is what happens when you dick around and play chicken w/ your sovereign debt Boener et al.
 
2011-07-06 01:08:16 PM  
MOAR DAY TRADERS, MOAR!!1!1!
 
2011-07-06 01:12:55 PM  

thomps: Mike_LowELL: Done in two. Thank you, Crosshair, for once again proving that conservative talking points will always be superior to liberal talking points.

mike, how can you expect us to take you seriously when you don't even accompany your posts with political cartoons?


I do not dabble in "cartoons". Cartoons are for children. They are useless and they are a waste of time. Imagine if five-year-olds were growing up to read Ayn Rand and George Will instead of watching Bugs Bunny and Pac-Man. Our country would be much more useful and a hell of a lot less liberal than it is today.
 
2011-07-06 01:14:46 PM  
this guy keeps saying that foreign investment is down from 2008 and also talks about how much was coming in during the 80s and 90s, but doesn't mention any foreign investment figures from 2000-2007. does anyone have numbers on that, because i think we'll probably see a general decline in net investment over the years as offshoring and emerging markets started accelerating.

but also, obama ruins everything.
 
2011-07-06 01:14:59 PM  
We need to brutally punish evil unloyal american multi-nationals for sending jobs overseas and then tax them at the 2nd highest rate in the world and block them from avoiding unions when they set up shop here!
 
2011-07-06 01:19:11 PM  

Republicat: Crosshair: What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union

More like the US will go the way of the Weimar Republic if the Republicans have anything to say about it...


The comparisons of Republicans to Nazis are totally unfair. At least the Nazis had a plan.
 
2011-07-06 01:21:04 PM  

crab66: What I read in my brief skim of the article:

"Hey everyone! I cherry picked this number out of thousands of economic metrics because it's slightly negative. According to me it's the mostest important number ever. I will now use it to attack the President and throw out the usual right wing spin that everything is ruined forever if we are not in power."


Something like that. I don't know what this trend means, but it surely spells doom! DOOOOM!

www.majhost.com

Source PDF (new window)
 
2011-07-06 01:22:10 PM  

thomps: this guy keeps saying that foreign investment is down from 2008 and also talks about how much was coming in during the 80s and 90s, but doesn't mention any foreign investment figures from 2000-2007. does anyone have numbers on that, because i think we'll probably see a general decline in net investment over the years as offshoring and emerging markets started accelerating.

but also, obama ruins everything.


here are the FDI figures from 1970 to 2009. FDI in the 1980's really wasn't anywhere near as impressive as the WSJ says it was!

Link (new window)
 
2011-07-06 01:24:22 PM  

Mike_LowELL: thomps: Mike_LowELL: Done in two. Thank you, Crosshair, for once again proving that conservative talking points will always be superior to liberal talking points.

mike, how can you expect us to take you seriously when you don't even accompany your posts with political cartoons?

I do not dabble in "cartoons". Cartoons are for children. They are useless and they are a waste of time. Imagine if five-year-olds were growing up to read Ayn Rand and George Will instead of watching Bugs Bunny and Pac-Man. Our country would be much more useful and a hell of a lot less liberal than it is today.


Useful and less liberal = Rape fantasies, idolizing serial killers, and smoking cigarettes being a moral obligation.

/And don't get me started on Ayn Rand's oddities.
 
2011-07-06 01:27:09 PM  
Actually, foreign investment in America is a big part of what caused the problem. For so many years America was the hot place to invest. It made the cost of money here really cheap. When that dried up, all the inefficiencies we created (because americans suck at spending money and have no idea what roi is) became unsustainable causing the recession. Until we get better at spending without relying on cheap money, we won't recover. This is also why the Fed just prolonged the problem by keeping low interest rates and pushing dollars into the system.

The fact that foreign investments are slowing has more to do with other developing countries catching up (and competing as investment alternatives) than much else.
 
2011-07-06 01:29:15 PM  

Crosshair: Obviously this means we need higher taxes and more regulations.

Soumac: Perhaps foreign investors are worried about the uncertainty created when congressional Republicans insist that cutting deficits their way is so important, that they must drive the US economy off a cliff to prove that point.

No, they are worried about what crazy new programs, taxes, and regulations the administration is going to pass. With all the government innovation going on nobody can make long term investment plans so they are instead making plans elsewhere. The economy is unbalanced and until the correction takes place, nobody knows what really is profitable and what isn't. The longer the government drags this out with intervention and low interest rates the worse it will be.

Government does not and cannot create wealth. It can only dissipate and destroy wealth through its interventions. It is the private sector through voluntary exchange which can produce new wealth. Our tax code and regulations are too complicated and too overbearing, raising costs and making it less profitable to employ people in the US. There IS a middle ground between "no regulation" and "regulated to death".

[spreadthesymbol.org image 256x261]

How the defects are cut is another matter. The fact is that they will be cut one way or another and the government will default on much of its SS and Medicare promises as the unfunded liabilities cannot be met. What is happening in Greece will happen here, except there will be no bailout and the current Federal Government goes the way of the Soviet Union. We can either take on the problem in a semi-organized fashion or we can argue about trivial amounts of cuts until the whole mess goes off a cliff when foreigners stop lending to us and interest rates skyrocket.


i don't have enough hours left in the day to deal with all this derp and whargarble.

i do have time to address the insipid cartoon. The number of pages in the regulation is irrelevant. It could be written on the back of a napkin and be too much, or it could be bigger than the library of congress and not be enough.
 
2011-07-06 01:30:02 PM  

krelborne: Something like that. I don't know what this trend means, but it surely spells doom! DOOOOM!


interesting - so we've been a direct investment net exporter for every year in the 2000s except one.

dumbobruni: here are the FDI figures from 1970 to 2009. FDI in the 1980's really wasn't anywhere near as impressive as the WSJ says it was!


the cyclical ebbs and flows are kind of interesting, especially when you consider it doesn't include investor activity but just direct investment.
 
2011-07-06 01:33:52 PM  
I guess pants-shiatting fear over the instability of the private financial distribution system had dick-all to do with the desire to divert resources away from American systems. It must be those damned massive tax hikes and billions of pages of regulation and socialist theft that Fartbongo imposed Chavez-style upon hardworking producers like Goldman Sachs and Bank of America.
 
2011-07-06 01:34:12 PM  
I somehow suspect it has more to do with a minority party pushing the Federal Gov't into default on its debt than anything else.

That, and the US is no longer the place to dump one's goods. That joyous position is going to China.
 
2011-07-06 01:38:18 PM  

Crosshair: Government does not and cannot create wealth.


www.visitingdc.com

blog.cleantechies.com

www.brokenprojector.com

You're mostly an ideologue and a moron aren't you?
 
2011-07-06 01:38:47 PM  
FTFA:hat may be the single most important explanation for persistently high unemployment and stagnant wages.

Or perhaps the fault does not lie with foreign investors who don't invest in the US, but something a lot closer home. Like for example domestic investors not investing in the US.
 
2011-07-06 01:46:09 PM  
Perhaps, the naked greed and theft left unchecked on Wallstreet, reduced the desire of investing here. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice?
 
2011-07-06 01:47:57 PM  

Soumac: Perhaps foreign investors are worried about the uncertainty created when congressional Republicans insist that cutting deficits their way is so important, that they must drive the US economy off a cliff to prove that point.


Wrong, the answer is, the united states is a mature economy while the 3rd world is developing. There is more money to be made by invading the faster moving economies than to invest in stagnating ones waiting for the new equalibrium point caused by changing technologies. Next question....

/for some reason I watched the McGlauflin Group with my FIL this weekend. I plan on answerin all questions in that bowhards voice.
 
2011-07-06 01:51:22 PM  

Cinaed: I somehow suspect it has more to do with a minority party pushing the Federal Gov't into default on its debt than anything else.

That, and the US is no longer the place to dump one's goods. That joyous position is going to China.


We're still the largest market. The problem in my view is that the capital to produce the goods for that market gets a better return on investment in countries with slave labor. Government can and should combat this with tariffs once again to set the message that access to the most lucrative market requires some form of investment here, preferrably to give jobs to the Americans whose spending is at the heart of the return on investment.

Tis all about the specie flow between east and west. Sort of like when the Brits stole all of China's silver currency, leaving them with worthless copper pieces that completely farked their whole economy. It's just going the other direction these days, with a bunch of cowardly politicians who're acting like we have an unequal treaty with our Chinese producers that prevents us from protecting what's ours.
 
2011-07-06 01:51:44 PM  

the_falling_duck: You're mostly an ideologue and a moron aren't you?


Everyone knows that infrastructure investment and scientific research don't create wealth. Wealth is created by entrepreneurs using the products of infrastructure investment and scientific research.
 
2011-07-06 01:51:44 PM  
Imagine you are a wealthy and intelligent inventor and entrepenuer.

You have just come up with a product that is selling like hotcakes, and you need to create a HUGE factory to build these things.

Where would you want to build the factory:

WAGES
1) A nation with high wages
2) A nation with low wages

REGULATION
1) A nation with onerous regulations
2) A nation with minimal regulations

TAXES
1) A nation with high corporate taxes
2) A nation with low corporate taxes

So, in otherwords, anywhere but the US.

Radically lowering wages isn't going to work; too many people suffer in the short term. Best we can do is flatten wages while the rest of the world catches up. But maybe we can win on 2/3 of these issues by reducing regulation and lowering taxes. Then, maybe we might see some manufacturing jobs come back. But if you are not willing to change any of the three issues that are keeping businesses away from the US, blaming the rich and playing robin hood isn't going to fix shiat.
 
2011-07-06 01:56:40 PM  
Isn't increased US investment out of the US a good thing. We put out some seed cash and then we skim off the profit of the developing nations to enrich the US. God I miss the days when the US was the most indebted to nation on the planet instead of the most debted.
 
2011-07-06 01:57:12 PM  

thomps: this guy keeps saying that foreign investment is down from 2008 and also talks about how much was coming in during the 80s and 90s, but doesn't mention any foreign investment figures from 2000-2007


Oh, that's just how conservatives like to express things. It doesn't matter that if you look at the actual data and the trend is up. All that matters is that the is less than the from .

In the conservative world, if it were 88 degrees yesterday, and 80 degrees today, you can bet your ass it's going to snow in 6 days.

It works going up too. "Unemployment is increasing!" is a good example of this. It might be up 1 quarter but down the previous 3 and boom, there you have it, everything is going to shiat.
 
2011-07-06 01:59:22 PM  

the_falling_duck: Crosshair: Government does not and cannot create wealth.

You're mostly an ideologue and a moron aren't you?


BUY GOLD! Derpity derp Obummer is a soshalist and guns and no taxes and HURRRRRRRRRR
 
2011-07-06 01:59:52 PM  
Note to self, do not put things in carrots. It should have read something like:

Oh, that's just how conservatives like to express things. It doesn't matter that if you look at the actual data and the trend is up. All that matters is that the thing you want to measure is less than before in a small enough time period to mask the long term trend.
 
2011-07-06 02:02:08 PM  
That sound you hear is Glenn Beck rubbing himself raw.
 
2011-07-06 02:08:38 PM  

Occam's Nailfile: Imagine you are a wealthy and intelligent inventor and entrepenuer.

You have just come up with a product that is selling like hotcakes, and you need to create a HUGE factory to build these things.

Where would you want to build the factory:


Is my product labor intensive or capital intensive? Does the labor I need, need to be highly trained?

If I'm making, say an article of clothing, I'll probably grow the cotton in the US, have it turned into fabric in the US, shipping it down to Mexico to be cut/sown, then brought back up to the US for any final treatments before sale.

If I'm producing something which requires intensive capital, I'll probably build it in the US or another OECD nation. Further while wages are higher in the OECD, productivity is higher, as well I'll have lower absenteeism, a more technically competent workforce (reducing needs for support personnel) I'll have increased stability, more transparency in the construction of the factory, mature transportation networks, I won't have to bribe government officials, I'll be able to readily find skilled trades and I won't have to pay them a premium, I won't have to pay for my managers kidnapping insurance...
 
2011-07-06 02:10:06 PM  

Occam's Nailfile: Radically lowering wages isn't going to work; too many people suffer in the short term. Best we can do is flatten wages while the rest of the world catches up. But maybe we can win on 2/3 of these issues by reducing regulation and lowering taxes. Then, maybe we might see some manufacturing jobs come back. But if you are not willing to change any of the three issues that are keeping businesses away from the US, blaming the rich and playing robin hood isn't going to fix shiat.


You're dreaming that taxes are a major concern for starting businesses. And manufacturing doesn't have to worry about "taxes" unless they're distributing within the country. Wages, meanwhile, are tax deductible anyway.

As for regulations, the only way to address that would be to become like China and eat lead with every meal -- there's no way to win that race to the bottom.

You know little about running a business.
 
2011-07-06 02:11:06 PM  

thomps: jesus, are we still flogging this talking point? i've been hearing it since obama entered office.


Boehner hasn't given up on it yet.

The responsibility of government is to ensure there's an environment for job creation. And it starts with staying out of the way. Excessive spending by government doesn't create jobs and instill certainty; it spreads uncertainty, which destroys jobs.

Newsflash according to Republicans: Hoover Dam doesn't create jobs, creates uncertainty instead.
 
2011-07-06 02:11:42 PM  
High taxes cause people to take their investment dollars elsewhere. It's not rocket science.
 
2011-07-06 02:15:49 PM  

Penman: High taxes cause people to take their investment dollars elsewhere. It's not rocket science.


Baloney on two levels. As a former business owner I can tell you two things: taxes were VERY low, much lower than typical middle class tax rates and two, they're not a major factor in input costs anyway. The key expenses were shipping, lease rates and distribution costs including labor.
 
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