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(Powerline)   The results of Obama's release of oil from the strategic reserve are in: it was a collosal failure if the attempt was to lower gas prices, but a huge success at providing Big Oil subsidies   (powerlineblog.com) divider line 115
    More: Fail, Strategic Petroleum Reserve, strategic reserve, oil reserves, gas prices, obama  
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1318 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jul 2011 at 4:54 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-07-06 07:35:22 AM  
The price of gas fell about 30 cents in the month before Obama decided to open the reserve and you dopes are giving credit to Obama for the drop in gas prices?

Since the release of the reserve the price of crude has jumped and gas prices are going along with it.

The release of the reserve was an idiotic political move that had zero effect on the market.
 
2011-07-06 07:43:27 AM  

DozeNutz: Thread is full of Obamapologists. Its really disturbing how they will defend his actions tooth and nail.

The gas reserves being used is a form of price fixing. The wall st guys buying this stuff up at this price to sell to us 6 weeks later at $1 more to make them rich.


So you should be happy that the Wall Street guys are getting rich, right?
 
2011-07-06 07:52:15 AM  
Not sure what Obama can do. This country was already broken when he got it to fix. Now like a bunch of dumb-asses, we can't see or reason why thing will take time to straighten out.

No easy fixes. No clear fixes.

Ask yourself which party d you think the oil companies would rather be in power? I tend to think republicans. Maybe we should give them that too...huh?
 
2011-07-06 07:56:34 AM  
For those of you who missed the first few episodes, the neocon script went something like this:

Upon initial announcement: "OMG Fartbama is dumb that will never work!"

Upon (short-lived) drop in Oil prices: "It worked, but Fartbama didn't do it, he's just taking the credit!"

Today: "OMG Fartbama's plan failed!"


I'm a conservative, and not a Fanboy of the One by any stretch, but the duplicitous ditto-headedness of many Fark neocons is often as bad or worse than those who think he's the second coming.
 
2011-07-06 07:57:10 AM  
Good job, Oilbama!
 
2011-07-06 07:57:55 AM  
There's no big surprise here. The administration is consistently failing at pretty much everything.
 
2011-07-06 08:01:09 AM  

thomps: unyon: However, that release stuck it to speculators, who might think twice about doubling down when oil prices are climbing.

That's just good policy.

oil prices had been dropping, hadn't they? from what i can tell, the only speculators that got it stuck to them were those whose contracts expired within like a week after the announcement.


i'm not sure the ins and outs of it, but apparently obama hit them at the worst possible time. in fact the release of petroleum was mainly designed to hammer speculators, as they were the prime cause of the bubble.
 
2011-07-06 08:03:02 AM  

Ball Sack Obama: There's no big surprise here. The administration is consistently failing at pretty much everything.


yeah, they failed to protect bin laden. they failed to allow a second great republican depression. they failed to destroy the environment. they failed to protect wall street from new financial regulation. they failed to allow 40 million americans to go uninsured. that's a lot of fail!
 
2011-07-06 08:05:01 AM  

Jake Havechek: DozeNutz: Thread is full of Obamapologists. Its really disturbing how they will defend his actions tooth and nail.

The gas reserves being used is a form of price fixing. The wall st guys buying this stuff up at this price to sell to us 6 weeks later at $1 more to make them rich.

So you should be happy that the Wall Street guys are getting rich, right?


no, you flaming douche
 
2011-07-06 08:12:23 AM  
Suckblog.com
 
2011-07-06 08:17:20 AM  

DozeNutz: Thread is full of Obamapologists. Its really disturbing how they will defend his actions tooth and nail.


Uh, the gas prices went down. That's not debatable. That's observable fact. The headline is a lie. No, I'm not clicking on Powerline.
 
2011-07-06 08:19:09 AM  
Right, releasing 30mil barrels when the world consumes almost 3 times that EVERY DAY, this was going to move the market/price.

It was nothing more than a cheap ploy by Obama. I thought as a Nobel prize winner and one of the brightest presidents ever he would be above this kind of gimmick. How disappointing, everybody says he has such potential
 
2011-07-06 08:20:24 AM  
Sooo muuuuuch butthurt. Sooo muuuuuch.
 
2011-07-06 08:21:38 AM  

DozeNutz: Jake Havechek: DozeNutz: Thread is full of Obamapologists. Its really disturbing how they will defend his actions tooth and nail.

The gas reserves being used is a form of price fixing. The wall st guys buying this stuff up at this price to sell to us 6 weeks later at $1 more to make them rich.

So you should be happy that the Wall Street guys are getting rich, right?

no, you flaming douche


Huh. I don't get it. Corporate fatcats are like gods to you guys.
 
2011-07-06 08:22:56 AM  

FlashHarry: Ball Sack Obama: There's no big surprise here. The administration is consistently failing at pretty much everything.

yeah, they failed to protect bin laden. they failed to allow a second great republican depression. they failed to destroy the environment. they failed to protect wall street from new financial regulation. they failed to allow 40 million americans to go uninsured. that's a lot of fail!


Yeah, yeah, yeah... remind me why his approval ratings are in the toilet again without invoking George Bush or racism.
 
2011-07-06 08:27:48 AM  

Ball Sack Obama: FlashHarry: Ball Sack Obama: There's no big surprise here. The administration is consistently failing at pretty much everything.

yeah, they failed to protect bin laden. they failed to allow a second great republican depression. they failed to destroy the environment. they failed to protect wall street from new financial regulation. they failed to allow 40 million americans to go uninsured. that's a lot of fail!

Yeah, yeah, yeah... remind me why his approval ratings are in the toilet again without invoking George Bush or racism.


1.) They've scarcely moved at all since he took office save a few percentages up and down that amount to nothing
2.) The president is always blamed when the nation is in the shiatter

Done.
 
2011-07-06 08:49:25 AM  

mcoctopus: http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

US avg on 6/23 when it was announced: 3.63
US avg today: 3.58

Net drop: 5 cents.


White House considers tapping oil reserves (new window) - March 06, 2011

i121.photobucket.com

Link (new window)
 
2011-07-06 08:51:49 AM  
Your sponsor sucks, Drew.
 
2011-07-06 09:03:46 AM  

Thats No Moose: And that should be the last we see of him in this thread.


That's exactly what I was thinking. :)
 
2011-07-06 09:05:28 AM  

Minus1Kelvin: Thats No Moose: And that should be the last we see of him in this thread.

That's exactly what I was thinking. :)


Just enough time for two more nitwits to show up and shiat on the thread.
 
2011-07-06 09:06:12 AM  
why the fark are commodity markets unregulated ?

The price of oil is not due to supply and demand it is due to speculation pure and simple artificial manipulation of the market to generate profit for a few on the pain of the all.
 
2011-07-06 09:11:36 AM  
Blog blog blogs.
 
2011-07-06 09:12:58 AM  
SouthernManDunWrong:

But what does haterade think
 
2011-07-06 09:13:30 AM  
So an increase in supply doesn't have a measurable effect on prices? That doesn't help your "drill, baby, drill" argument.
 
2011-07-06 09:13:59 AM  
They call it powerline because you'd have to live under them to agree with the editorials.
 
2011-07-06 09:19:08 AM  
We were around 3.56 but just yesterday jump to 3.79 for no particular reason, looks like most the state of MI jump up as well. Probably using that oil spill in Yellowstone as an excuse.
 
2011-07-06 09:19:34 AM  

mitEj: why the fark are commodity markets unregulated ?

The price of oil is not due to supply and demand it is due to speculation pure and simple artificial manipulation of the market to generate profit for a few on the pain of the all.


That's a bullshiat claim. Every time prices go up, speculators get investigated - including by this administration - and you know what they ALWAYS find? Nothing.

This "speculators are causing it" is the same whiny, whimpering nothingness excuse it always is.

As far as the Obama move being stupid, you can go back and look at what I said here on Fark when he did it: it will lower prices slightly in the short run, but it won't do a thing in the long run. Prices will go right back up to where they were, and instead of dealing with consistently high prices that people can get used to, the prices will be rising.

Look at that. Just scant weeks later, and that's exactly what's happening. It wasn't exactly rocket science to figure it out. It was just common sense. Of course, that very simple and sane common sense is severly lacking in all the Obama fanboys who managed to convince themselves that this was some kind of genius move. It wasn't.

But, of course, the fanboys will never go back and apologize for their breathless attacks on everyone who already knew it wouldn't work as anything other than a very temporary dip in prices that were already going down anyway. They'll never admit that they were wrong, wrong, wrong or that Obama did this as a desperation move to try to boost his sagging popularity numbers.

But then, logic and common sense have always been missing from the fanboys, so finding that they lack either isn't any different from coming to the realization that the sun rises in the east.
 
2011-07-06 09:20:29 AM  
hahah, Obama is so stupid!

along with the leaders of the other countries that released oil reserves:

Australia
Republic of Korea
Austria
Luxembourg
Belgium
The Netherlands
Canada
New Zealand
Czech Republic
Norway
Denmark
Poland
Finland
Portugal
France
Slovak Republic
Spain
Greece
Sweden
Hungary
Switzerland
Ireland
Turkey
Italy
The United Kingdom
Japan
 
2011-07-06 09:23:34 AM  

krelborne: So an increase in supply doesn't have a measurable effect on prices? That doesn't help your "drill, baby, drill" argument.


You're an idiot. There is a world of difference between a one-time increase that won't and can't be repeated over the long-run, and increasing the long-term supply in the marketplace.

If you had ever taken an economics course in your life, this wouldn't have to be explained to you. You might want to look into finally finished that GED.
 
2011-07-06 09:25:59 AM  

LarryDan43: hahah, Obama is so stupid!

along with the leaders of the other countries that released oil reserves:

Australia
Republic of Korea
Austria
Luxembourg
Belgium
The Netherlands
Canada
New Zealand
Czech Republic
Norway
Denmark
Poland
Finland
Portugal
France
Slovak Republic
Spain
Greece
Sweden
Hungary
Switzerland
Ireland
Turkey
Italy
The United Kingdom
Japan


If you ever find yourself in the company of doing the same thing economically as Greece, Portugal and Spain (just to name the countries who are currently in the process of nationwide bankruptcies), then you would probably best consider the opposite course of action as the wiser one.
 
2011-07-06 09:28:24 AM  
I'm pretty liberal. I voted for Obama before, and I'll do it again.

That said, tapping the SPR was dumb, and a blatant, empty political gesture. The SPR is supposed to be reserved for actual crises and shortages, not for whenever Americans start whining about the cost of filling up their SUVs. Americans already pay less for gasoline than the rest of the developed world. It was ridiculous and unnecessary.

I don't want to see the SPR touched again until we start seeing scenes like this again.

upload.wikimedia.org
www.silverbearcafe.com
 
2011-07-06 09:28:46 AM  

jim_paul: krelborne: So an increase in supply doesn't have a measurable effect on prices? That doesn't help your "drill, baby, drill" argument.

You're an idiot. There is a world of difference between a one-time increase that won't and can't be repeated over the long-run, and increasing the long-term supply in the marketplace.

If you had ever taken an economics course in your life, this wouldn't have to be explained to you. You might want to look into finally finished that GED.


I was being sarcastic, idiot. Take your "sagging popularity numbers" talking point and GTFO.
 
2011-07-06 09:29:58 AM  

jim_paul: mitEj: why the fark are commodity markets unregulated ?

The price of oil is not due to supply and demand it is due to speculation pure and simple artificial manipulation of the market to generate profit for a few on the pain of the all.

That's a bullshiat claim. Every time prices go up, speculators get investigated - including by this administration - and you know what they ALWAYS find? Nothing.

This "speculators are causing it" is the same whiny, whimpering nothingness excuse it always is.

As far as the Obama move being stupid, you can go back and look at what I said here on Fark when he did it: it will lower prices slightly in the short run, but it won't do a thing in the long run. Prices will go right back up to where they were, and instead of dealing with consistently high prices that people can get used to, the prices will be rising.

Look at that. Just scant weeks later, and that's exactly what's happening. It wasn't exactly rocket science to figure it out. It was just common sense. Of course, that very simple and sane common sense is severly lacking in all the Obama fanboys who managed to convince themselves that this was some kind of genius move. It wasn't.

But, of course, the fanboys will never go back and apologize for their breathless attacks on everyone who already knew it wouldn't work as anything other than a very temporary dip in prices that were already going down anyway. They'll never admit that they were wrong, wrong, wrong or that Obama did this as a desperation move to try to boost his sagging popularity numbers.

But then, logic and common sense have always been missing from the fanboys, so finding that they lack either isn't any different from coming to the realization that the sun rises in the east.


you know how I can tell your not actully paying attention ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/29/us-cftc-optiver-oil-manipulation-idUS T RE75S3LR20110629
and the attached fark link
http://www.fark.com/comments/6340062/Oil-traders-to-CFTC-Yes-we-manipulate-oil- p rices-Can-we-just-cut-you-a-check

From less than a week ago.

There has been collusion with investigators in the past. It is the same nonsense as having banking insiders investigate the banking crisis and stating that there is no blame to be had on the banks side. or that no punishment is necessary.
 
2011-07-06 09:32:20 AM  

LarryDan43: along with the leaders of the other countries that released oil reserves:


If I were motivated, I'd do a marathon paint.net session, and put a cigarette in the mouths of the leaders of every one of those countries, then ask WHAT THE HELL IS THEIR PROBLEM? So imagine I did that
 
2011-07-06 09:41:07 AM  

mitEj: you know how I can tell your not actully paying attention ?


You know how I know you know absolutely NOTHING about trading or the oil markets?

What this firm did, "banging the close" and making a WHOLE million dollars off of it, is just about the biggest nothing in the world of nothingness ever in terms of manipulating the price of oil futures:

1) Literally trillions of dollars are traded on a daily basis. $1 million doesn't even qualify as a drop in the bucket.
2) "Banging the close" is a series of transactions that can literally take place in as little as a minute. The reason you have to do it at close is because the market will self-correct for that sort of thing within the next minute or two if you tried to do it during the trading day. Any increase is immediately deflated at opening the next day. So this would have had ZERO effect on long-term (or anything other than mini-micro) price trends.
3) That was in 2007...4 years ago. You got anything else other than that?

There has been collusion with investigators in the past. It is the same nonsense as having banking insiders investigate the banking crisis and stating that there is no blame to be had on the banks side. or that no punishment is necessary.

Of course, it's collusion. That explains why your hypothesis is so spectacularly wrong. It's just everyone conspiring together to keep you from knowing the truth. But you've got your trusty tinfoil hat intercepting their super-secret microwave transmissions so you KNOW what's going on even if they can fool everyone else.

Thanks for your vigilance, crime fighter.
 
2011-07-06 09:46:33 AM  

Jake Havechek: DozeNutz: Jake Havechek: DozeNutz: Thread is full of Obamapologists. Its really disturbing how they will defend his actions tooth and nail.

The gas reserves being used is a form of price fixing. The wall st guys buying this stuff up at this price to sell to us 6 weeks later at $1 more to make them rich.

So you should be happy that the Wall Street guys are getting rich, right?

no, you flaming douche

Huh. I don't get it. Corporate fatcats are like gods to you guys.


did I blow your mind? Did your whole notion of a republican (constitutional republican to be specific) just shatter? Are you now questioning your messiah? THAT IS BLASPHEMY I CAUGHT YOU! I AM FROM OBAMAPATROL COMING TO ARREST YOU FOR THOUGHTCRIME!!!

/ok im done
 
2011-07-06 09:49:17 AM  

jim_paul: mitEj: you know how I can tell your not actully paying attention ?

You know how I know you know absolutely NOTHING about trading or the oil markets?

What this firm did, "banging the close" and making a WHOLE million dollars off of it, is just about the biggest nothing in the world of nothingness ever in terms of manipulating the price of oil futures:

1) Literally trillions of dollars are traded on a daily basis. $1 million doesn't even qualify as a drop in the bucket.
2) "Banging the close" is a series of transactions that can literally take place in as little as a minute. The reason you have to do it at close is because the market will self-correct for that sort of thing within the next minute or two if you tried to do it during the trading day. Any increase is immediately deflated at opening the next day. So this would have had ZERO effect on long-term (or anything other than mini-micro) price trends.
3) That was in 2007...4 years ago. You got anything else other than that?

There has been collusion with investigators in the past. It is the same nonsense as having banking insiders investigate the banking crisis and stating that there is no blame to be had on the banks side. or that no punishment is necessary.

Of course, it's collusion. That explains why your hypothesis is so spectacularly wrong. It's just everyone conspiring together to keep you from knowing the truth. But you've got your trusty tinfoil hat intercepting their super-secret microwave transmissions so you KNOW what's going on even if they can fool everyone else.

Thanks for your vigilance, crime fighter.


I used it as an example simply because it took me less than 30 seconds to find, and to refute your disingenuous point that there is no evidence of speculation or profit taking in the market.

My final point before I stop arguing with an obvious troll is that there can be many things that are immoral in the manipulations of the committees market that are not illegal, especially since they are mostly deregulated. trying to claim that nothing is happening just because no laws have been obviously broken misses my point entirely.

The commodities markets as they exist now are under regulated and under scrutinized. To claim otherwise is ignorance, or willful obfuscation.

If ignorance please do some research. If willful obfuscation then clearly you realize it and are deriving some sort of personal gain from it.
 
2011-07-06 10:06:54 AM  
Oil Prices on 6/23 (the day after the "genius move")

Nymex Crude Future
Current Price: $91.93
$ Daily Change: +0.91
% Daily Change: +1.00%
As of this time: 19:59


Dated Brent Spot
Current Price: $108.92
$ Daily Change: -0.17
% Daily Change: -0.16%
As of this time: 20:09


WTI Cushing Spot (this is the only oil benchmark that was affected by the announcement)
Current Price: $90.65
$ Daily Change: -4.36
% Daily Change: -4.59%
As of this date: 06/23


Oil Prices as of Today (two weeks after the "genius move")

Nymex Crude Future
Current Price: $97.10
$ Change since "genius move": +5.17
% Change since "genius move": +5.62
As of this time: 9:45 AM EDT


Dated Brent Spot
Current Price: $112.95
$ Change since "genius move": +4.03
% Change since "genius move": +3.70
As of this time: 9:58 AM EDT


WTI Cushing Spot
Current Price: $96.59
$ Change since "genius move": +5.94
% Change since "genius move": +6.55
As of this time: 9:04 AM EDT


/source
//total "genius" move, though
 
2011-07-06 10:07:32 AM  
The "he's worried about his poll numbers" talking point is incredibly stupid. This is not an election year. The change in gas prices was going to be small and temporary and wouldn't help him at all. It wasn't going to significantly affect how he polls. Heck, the "bin Laden bounce" lasted... what, a matter of weeks? A little more of a day's worth of oil consumption wasn't going to do squat.

The people who are worried about his poll numbers are the haters who brought it up. Why? Because they want them to FALL and will scream and shout until they do.
 
2011-07-06 10:12:40 AM  

Jackson Herring: Blog blog blogs.


On the blagoblag?
 
2011-07-06 10:24:40 AM  

Hydra: Oil Prices on 6/23 (the day after the "genius move")


/Know how I know you don't know how futures work?
 
2011-07-06 10:37:32 AM  
img155.imageshack.us
 
2011-07-06 10:38:59 AM  

bigdavediode: /Know how I know you don't know how futures work?


Apparently you don't considering you didn't even make a point about it.

/know how I know you don't know what a spot price is?
 
2011-07-06 10:48:40 AM  
www.powerlineblog.com.php5-23.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com
yep, middle aged white guy...you know who else was a middle aged white guy?!?!
 
2011-07-06 10:48:45 AM  
Goldman Sachs said the international stockpile release could reduce its forecast of crude oil prices by $10 to $12 a barrel over the next three months, and by $5 to $7 a barrel in 2012.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-allies-to-release-60m-barrel s- from-oil-reserves/2011/06/23/AGhcVKhH_story_1.html (new window)
 
2011-07-06 10:54:58 AM  
There are a lot of folks with their heads in the sand about this, but then again why should today be any different than any other day?
 
2011-07-06 10:59:03 AM  

PanicMan: Goldman Sachs said the international stockpile release could reduce its forecast of crude oil prices by $10 to $12 a barrel over the next three months, and by $5 to $7 a barrel in 2012.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-allies-to-release-60m-barrel s- from-oil-reserves/2011/06/23/AGhcVKhH_story_1.html (new window)


Yeah, and Barrons says it will be $150 by next Spring. What's your point?

Get Ready for $150 Oil

/speculate
 
2011-07-06 11:16:56 AM  

Hydra: bigdavediode: /Know how I know you don't know how futures work?

Apparently you don't considering you didn't even make a point about it.

/know how I know you don't know what a spot price is?


Hm, y'know, that was a childish response.

The message I meant to convey is that people shouldn't make sweeping statements about other people they know nothing about across the internet - just like I intentionally did with you. Since this is a Fark debate, anyone and everyone is a former US Mint worker getting a kick out of the replies who has to be at the gym in 26 minutes, and with things like Google and Investopedia out there, it's easy to look up any esoteric information that used to be known only by a select few.

I should have responded in a better way, though, so sorry about that.
 
2011-07-06 11:20:09 AM  

Hydra: bigdavediode: /Know how I know you don't know how futures work?

Apparently you don't considering you didn't even make a point about it.

/know how I know you don't know what a spot price is?


Well good luck with that, given that spot prices are down over a week. "On the New York Mercantile Exchange, light, sweet crude futures for delivery in August traded at $94.74 a barrel at 0637 GMT, down $0.20 in the Globex electronic session. August Brent crude on London's ICE Futures exchange fell $0.44 to $110.95 a barrel. " In addition, SPI releases aren't exactly done the same day, opens generally have higher vega, and rollover isn't until the 20th.

I LOVE what the WSJ wrote which was that oil was weaker due to the "Greek crisis" -- that made me laugh. They're just clawing their way up Murdoch's ass at this point.
 
2011-07-06 11:24:50 AM  
Really? Because prior to releasing from the reserve, gas was over $4.00 a gallon. Now it's at $3.75.
 
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