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(Independent)   Why did global temperatures remain constant between 1998 and 2008? Because China almost doubled its coal usage over that period. Wait, what?   (independent.co.uk) divider line 367
    More: Ironic, climate  
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11489 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jul 2011 at 1:33 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-07-05 10:12:56 AM
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIIIIIIIIE
 
2011-07-05 10:15:15 AM
So we get acid rain instead. Yay!!!!

But now China is building a zillion nuke plants, so we're going to die. Boo!!!
 
2011-07-05 10:24:40 AM
Computer model "facts" make me twitchy, and I'd like an explanation of how they are "proving" that the coal burned during the 1900's didn't lower the earth temperature in the first place.
 
2011-07-05 10:27:38 AM
Global dimming?
 
2011-07-05 10:27:42 AM
This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.
 
2011-07-05 10:34:21 AM
Thank you China.
 
2011-07-05 10:35:43 AM
Warmers are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.
 
2011-07-05 10:44:06 AM

Crystal Girl: Computer model "facts" make me twitchy, and I'd like an explanation of how they are "proving" that the coal burned during the 1900's didn't lower the earth temperature in the first place.


Probably because the amount of coal China burned in the past 10 years probably exceeded all the coal burnt in the 1900's

/I have no idea if this is true...but it feels true to me
//truthiness ftw
 
2011-07-05 10:53:49 AM

Crystal Girl: Computer model "facts" make me twitchy, and I'd like an explanation of how they are "proving" that the coal burned during the 1900's didn't lower the earth temperature in the first place.


I don't know the details of this particular study, but in general, the effects of pollution can differ depending on where in the atmosphere it ends up. Coal pollution, I think because it contains a lot of small particulate matter, can end up reducing the total amount of sunlight reaching the surface if it gets into a higher layer of the atmosphere. So it could be down to differences in the height of smoke stacks or the way the coal is burned, perhaps.
 
2011-07-05 10:59:17 AM

badhatharry: Warmers are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.


badhatharry: I believe that if there was a birth certificate, Obama would have released it.

badhatharry: There is a definite increase in autism. Even after removing mercury from the vaccines it is still increasing. ... I think it is a mix of genetics and environment and maybe even vaccines.

badhatharry: I do think that alien beings have visited Earth in the past and may still visit. There are many sightings by credible witnesses, including airline pilots and scientists. There are many references throughout history of flying craft before 1900.

badhatharry: I have seen a ghost. You would believe in them if you saw one.

You're the most gullible rube that ever walked Fark. You'll pardon the thinking public if they don't give a rat's ass about your opinion on scientific matters.

OR MAYBE I'M JUST A GHOST TELLING YOU THIS. OOOOOOOOOHHHHH. SPOOOOOOOOKY.
 
2011-07-05 11:07:02 AM

Marcus Aurelius: This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.


Agreed, but keep in mind that the article is also cherry-picking the start and stop dates. (Why start in 1998? Why stop three years ago?) There's considerable fluctuation in year-to-year surface temperatures despite the statistically-valid trend over several decades.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

You can find lots of similar 'flat' periods in prior decades if you pick your years to that end. Heck, if you pick 1997 or 1999 instead of 1998, the one-decade trend is sharply positive again. You generally need about 30 years of data to establish statistical validity.

Particulate matter increases albedo and blunts the warming that greenhouse gases alone would provide. But it's misleading to claim 'temperatures remain constant' in recent decades.
 
2011-07-05 11:09:55 AM
"Leverers" are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.

Everyone knows that Jesus lifts the other side of the see-saw.
 
2011-07-05 11:13:49 AM

gameshowhost: "Leverers" are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.

Everyone knows that Jesus lifts the other side of the see-saw.


I guess he's a kind of ghost. Harry could get behind that hypothesis.

I mean, if the lizard-people mind-control rays haven't changed the frequencies in his fluoridated water.
 
2011-07-05 11:27:52 AM
China pollutes like a motherf*cker. in fact, they produce more pollution than the US does. the problem is that the eco-nuts won't admit that China pollutes like crazy. the kyoto treaty, for example. it would have exempted China (and India too) from the severe restrictions that it imposed on everyone else in the world.
 
2011-07-05 11:35:42 AM
Farking complex systems, how do they work?

/and I don't want to talk to no scientist
//y'all are lying
/and getting me pissed
 
2011-07-05 11:54:08 AM

Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker


In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).
 
2011-07-05 11:59:13 AM

miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).


Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?
 
2011-07-05 12:07:40 PM

Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?


Maybe rods per hogshead?
 
2011-07-05 12:10:13 PM

miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?


cubits per swizzlestick?
 
2011-07-05 12:12:41 PM
Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?


Bad touches per sexy dresses.
 
2011-07-05 12:14:13 PM

Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?


stere per microfortnight?
 
2011-07-05 12:20:02 PM

Babwa Wawa: Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?


Also useful, but flawed as well. A lot of resource consumption (i.e. food requirements, sewage production, etc.) doesn't scale much with GDP. If you increase my budget 10x, I don't spend 10x as much on food.

Both America and China need to make fixes, and the fixes will look very different. Decades ago, America would have looked at this and saw an opportunity for massive economic growth-- build a next-generation energy system, then dominate the world market for it and continue to watch that sector of the economy stay in exponential growth. Nowadays, the Apollo program would be attacked as partisan politics, and besides, it sounds hard.

World leader in photovoltaic production? China. And it's not because they invented any of the key breakthroughs. The US, Germany, Korea, and Japan just left that window open.
 
2011-07-05 12:51:26 PM

miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?

stere per microfortnight?


doobobs per car hole?
 
2011-07-05 12:56:08 PM

Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?

stere per microfortnight?

doobobs per car hole?


slatterns per cans whoop-ass?
 
2011-07-05 01:11:31 PM

miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).


Well duh. We have birth control.
 
2011-07-05 01:20:29 PM

miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?

stere per microfortnight?

doobobs per car hole?

slatterns per cans whoop-ass?


Fantastipotami per konkerman?
 
2011-07-05 01:36:25 PM
Remained constant?
I could swear everyone's been saying they've been going up all that time.
Interesting.
 
2011-07-05 01:40:16 PM

chimp_ninja: Marcus Aurelius: This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.

Agreed, but keep in mind that the article is also cherry-picking the start and stop dates. (Why start in 1998? Why stop three years ago?) There's considerable fluctuation in year-to-year surface temperatures despite the statistically-valid trend over several decades.

[www.ncdc.noaa.gov image 640x331]

You can find lots of similar 'flat' periods in prior decades if you pick your years to that end. Heck, if you pick 1997 or 1999 instead of 1998, the one-decade trend is sharply positive again. You generally need about 30 years of data to establish statistical validity.

Particulate matter increases albedo and blunts the warming that greenhouse gases alone would provide. But it's misleading to claim 'temperatures remain constant' in recent decades.


Nice cherry pick there.
 
2011-07-05 01:40:18 PM
So the solution to global warming is to pump sulphur into the atmosphere? Let's get on it, people!
 
2011-07-05 01:40:27 PM

Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?

stere per microfortnight?

doobobs per car hole?

slatterns per cans whoop-ass?

Fantastipotami per konkerman?


Boilermakers Perdue?
 
2011-07-05 01:41:42 PM

miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Babwa Wawa: miss diminutive: Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker

In absolute terms, yes. Per capita, they still lag behind the U.S. (and Canada).

Neither absolute or per capita are good measures. Maybe per GDP dollar?

Maybe rods per hogshead?

cubits per swizzlestick?

stere per microfortnight?

doobobs per car hole?

slatterns per cans whoop-ass?


hectares per liter of petrol?
 
2011-07-05 01:42:19 PM

elev8meL8r: hectares per liter of petrol?


or liter of kerosene, even
 
2011-07-05 01:42:45 PM
10 of the 10 warmest years on record (global land and sea) have all happened since 1998. So, the temps have remained fairly constant (constantly hot), but they were all well above the average since accurate records have been kept. I wonder why the article didn't note that the Sun's output was in decline for most of the decade which almost certainly mitigated some of the impact as well as the cooling impact of the la nina/el nino affect over the Pacific? (It's almost like they had an agenda or something) If the Sun returns to its typical output, it's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets any better.
 
2011-07-05 01:43:05 PM

chimp_ninja: badhatharry: Warmers are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.

badhatharry: I believe that if there was a birth certificate, Obama would have released it.

badhatharry: There is a definite increase in autism. Even after removing mercury from the vaccines it is still increasing. ... I think it is a mix of genetics and environment and maybe even vaccines.

badhatharry: I do think that alien beings have visited Earth in the past and may still visit. There are many sightings by credible witnesses, including airline pilots and scientists. There are many references throughout history of flying craft before 1900.

badhatharry: I have seen a ghost. You would believe in them if you saw one.

You're the most gullible rube that ever walked Fark. You'll pardon the thinking public if they don't give a rat's ass about your opinion on scientific matters.

OR MAYBE I'M JUST A GHOST TELLING YOU THIS. OOOOOOOOOHHHHH. SPOOOOOOOOKY.


ohsnap.jpg
 
2011-07-05 01:43:39 PM

chimp_ninja: Marcus Aurelius: This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.

Agreed, but keep in mind that the article is also cherry-picking the start and stop dates. (Why start in 1998? Why stop three years ago?) There's considerable fluctuation in year-to-year surface temperatures despite the statistically-valid trend over several decades.

[www.ncdc.noaa.gov image 640x331]

You can find lots of similar 'flat' periods in prior decades if you pick your years to that end. Heck, if you pick 1997 or 1999 instead of 1998, the one-decade trend is sharply positive again. You generally need about 30 years of data to establish statistical validity.

Particulate matter increases albedo and blunts the warming that greenhouse gases alone would provide. But it's misleading to claim 'temperatures remain constant' in recent decades.


Wait, 30 years is statistically significant in a system that's been around a few billion years??

You do realize that the Earth spent many tens of millions of years considerably warmer than the worst predictions of anthropomorphic global warming, right? And that life flourished?

Look, if you ant to argue that pollution is bad, that's terrific. Most of us will go along with making things cleaner, in ways that make sense, and not by rethinking the whole of human existence or buying into technologies that simply aren't up to the task. But the whole "man is going to end the world!" bullshiat is a complete non-starter except in groups that want to circle-jerk over how humans are going to kill the planet. It's not happening, period, the end, get over it.
 
2011-07-05 01:44:05 PM
I've been assured by farkers with GEDs in climatology that GW is caused by the sun.
So, I'm sure that they have data to show that the sun also caused the pause in global warming over the last decade.
 
2011-07-05 01:44:56 PM

Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker. in fact, they produce more pollution than the US does. the problem is that the eco-nuts won't admit that China pollutes like crazy. the kyoto treaty, for example. it would have exempted China (and India too) from the severe restrictions that it imposed on everyone else in the world.


Exactly. No global warming reduction strategy will work if we don't get the 2 biggest polluters on the planet to co-operate. I am not saying that we should ignore our own contributions, but Inda and China are going through a sort of industrial revolution similar to the NA/Europe, but with 100x the industry and little to no pollution controls. Anyone who wants to truly curb pollution should have these 2 countries on the top of their hit lists.
 
2011-07-05 01:45:23 PM
Global Universal Bullshiat from all corners of the scientific community.
The hole in the ozone layer will get us before anything else.
 
2011-07-05 01:45:46 PM
Wouldn't the solar minimum also have something to do with temperatures leveling off?

Interesting to see what will happen when the solar cycle hits its peak soon.
 
2011-07-05 01:46:20 PM

Marcus Aurelius: This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.


I think we found the solution, man made massive volcano eruptions, there has to be a way let's get our scientists on that.
 
2011-07-05 01:47:36 PM

lawboy87: 10 of the 10 warmest years on record (global land and sea) have all happened since 1998. So, the temps have remained fairly constant (constantly hot), but they were all well above the average since accurate records have been kept. I wonder why the article didn't note that the Sun's output was in decline for most of the decade which almost certainly mitigated some of the impact as well as the cooling impact of the la nina/el nino affect over the Pacific? (It's almost like they had an agenda or something) If the Sun returns to its typical output, it's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets any better.



Oh STFU, according to Climate tards we're in a solar minimum. According to the real sun scientists we're in a max cycle.

More gd excuses and barking lies for being wrong yet again.
 
2011-07-05 01:48:37 PM
That's total bullshiat. China's got little to do with it. There's a very simple explanation for global temperatures remaining constant instead of continuing to rise: the increase in high-seas piracy. There can be no other explanation. It's all there in the graphs...
 
2011-07-05 01:48:38 PM

Tom_Slick: Marcus Aurelius: This is hardly surprising. The Mount Pinatubo eruption lowered global temps 1 degree F for more than a year.

I think we found the solution, man made massive volcano eruptions, there has to be a way let's get our scientists on that.


only the mad scientists can help us now.

all these slightly peeved scientists are powerless.
 
2011-07-05 01:48:58 PM

Weaver95: China pollutes like a motherf*cker. in fact, they produce more pollution than the US does. the problem is that the eco-nuts won't admit that China pollutes like crazy. the kyoto treaty, for example. it would have exempted China (and India too) from the severe restrictions that it imposed on everyone else in the world.


China is the biggest investor in renewable energy in the world. This is after considering how half of the country is still 3rd world standards. There is no excuse why the US is not the number one in that category, although I'm sure people will come up with plenty.

China is polluting like crazy, but that is because it is playing catch-up with the rest of the world. When you are playing catch up where half of your country doesn't have easy access to electricity, pollution tends to be the result. It is a double-edged sword and the Chinese knows that more than anyone, actually.

I'm sure your "eco-nuts" would actually prefer one and a half billion people living in the dark like ancient times rather than the world producing more pollution, too.
 
2011-07-05 01:51:59 PM

chimp_ninja: badhatharry: Warmers are so brainwashed that they will do any kind of mental gymnastics to validate their delusions.

badhatharry: I believe that if there was a birth certificate, Obama would have released it.

badhatharry: There is a definite increase in autism. Even after removing mercury from the vaccines it is still increasing. ... I think it is a mix of genetics and environment and maybe even vaccines.

badhatharry: I do think that alien beings have visited Earth in the past and may still visit. There are many sightings by credible witnesses, including airline pilots and scientists. There are many references throughout history of flying craft before 1900.

badhatharry: I have seen a ghost. You would believe in them if you saw one.

You're the most gullible rube that ever walked Fark. You'll pardon the thinking public if they don't give a rat's ass about your opinion on scientific matters.

OR MAYBE I'M JUST A GHOST TELLING YOU THIS. OOOOOOOOOHHHHH. SPOOOOOOOOKY.


dude, chimp_ninja just f'd badhatharry in the a, and didn't even bother to bring any KY
 
2011-07-05 01:52:31 PM
George Soros could be behind it.
 
2011-07-05 01:52:43 PM
Global warming my Ass, we didn't hot 70 degrees til the middle of June. I've been burning tires to help speed up the warming process
 
2011-07-05 01:55:03 PM
I hate taxes and I love capitalism. But think about this logically. Is there any reason NOT to try to take better care of our planet? Let's assume the GW thing is nothing more than the climate being the climate. So what? Will it kill us to use less fossil fuels? Terrorists might not like this, but I'm going to be honest with you...that doesn't bother me. Is having clean air really a bad thing? For farks sake, stop cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Having said that, Gore and many global warming evangelists are completely douchbags. The messanger can kill the message sometimes.
 
2011-07-05 01:55:42 PM

Carousel Beast: You do realize that the Earth spent many tens of millions of years considerably warmer than the worst predictions of anthropomorphic global warming, right? And that life flourished?


You do realize that during those periods there were no mammals? There weren't even reptiles. All land animals had exoskeletons. The earth was a swampy wetland, and the atmosphere was 32% oxygen which would support huge fires set off by electrical storms.
 
2011-07-05 01:56:25 PM

chimp_ninja: the article is also cherry-picking the start and stop dates. (Why start in 1998? Why stop three years ago?) There's considerable fluctuation in year-to-year surface temperatures despite the statistically-valid trend over several decades.


I came in here to point out why this was stupid, but you beat me to it. I'm suddenly nostalgic for Brockway and his graphs that "proved" that the global temperature had decreased over the last century through utterly ludicrous amounts of cherry picking.
 
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