Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   "Hey Mom can u go to my bedroom and get the glass bowl under the bed and wash it with water really good and don't give the cops permission to search"   (wpbf.com) divider line 79
    More: Florida  
•       •       •

16500 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2011 at 6:51 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



79 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2011-06-24 10:04:16 AM  

Sim Tree: So she pulls out the bowl and gives them permission to search it?!?!?!?!

Brilliant!


I think mom needed some law enforcement help getting her 33 year old son out of the farking house
 
2011-06-24 10:16:26 AM  

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.


No, but everyone who drives 80 on a 50 mph speed limit road deserves a ticket.

/emergency circumstances excepted
 
2011-06-24 10:28:18 AM  
DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:16:26 AM

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.

No, but everyone who drives 80 on a 50 mph speed limit road deserves a ticket.

/emergency circumstances excepted




No, take it literally.
The world is perfect justice.
Adjust your beliefs and ethics to this truth and everything makes sense.
 
2011-06-24 10:31:37 AM  

Babwa Wawa: Family 2.0, since evidently I've not met his expectations.


I love you

/that was awesome
 
2011-06-24 10:35:24 AM  

doubled99: DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:16:26 AM

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.

No, but everyone who drives 80 on a 50 mph speed limit road deserves a ticket.

/emergency circumstances excepted



No, take it literally.
The world is perfect justice.
Adjust your beliefs and ethics to this truth and everything makes sense.


Despite my opinion you're trolling, I'll bite again. Check my profile for what I do for a living. Explain how the shaken babies I've investigated deserved it.
 
2011-06-24 10:38:02 AM  

CapeFearCadaver: Babwa Wawa: Family 2.0, since evidently I've not met his expectations.

I love you

/that was awesome


Gotta agree. Genuinely loled, even though Erik was more whiny-privileged than whiny-emo.
 
2011-06-24 11:06:13 AM  

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.


A rough guess would be that that's true 99% of the time once they have reached the age of majority and not that much less under that age to some extent. You got punched in the mouth by the bigger kid because you got lippy not because he is a bully. You lost your job because you're inept, not because of nepotism. Your wife cheated on you because you're useless in all accounts, not because she's a whore. You know... Your fault. Thus you deserved it.

There are some exceptions. They are rare. They exist though.
 
2011-06-24 11:08:24 AM  
DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:35:24 AM

doubled99: DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:16:26 AM

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.

No, but everyone who drives 80 on a 50 mph speed limit road deserves a ticket.

/emergency circumstances excepted



No, take it literally.
The world is perfect justice.
Adjust your beliefs and ethics to this truth and everything makes sense.

Despite my opinion you're trolling, I'll bite again. Check my profile for what I do for a living. Explain how the shaken babies I've investigated deserved it.




I don't know. Original sin? Past life crime?
I don't mean to make light of what you do and the horrible things you encounter. I'm just being philosophical.
As someone who I'm sure asks himself "How can all these terrible things happen to the innocent", maybe you should stop trying to rationalize life's random cruelties and attempt to fit them into your world view.
Instead, completely reverse it, accept that the world is perfect, and that everyone gets exactly what they deserve.
Then when you see a seemingly innocent person have some terrible thing happen, instead of "why", you'll just think "Wow. He must have done something really bad. Hmmm."
Just a thought. it might provide peace of mind.
 
2011-06-24 11:26:45 AM  
doubled99:
As someone who I'm sure asks himself "How can all these terrible things happen to the innocent", maybe you should stop trying to rationalize life's random cruelties and attempt to fit them into your world view.



You're right. People nearly always get what they deserve. The Jews had it coming, as did those Tutsi bastards. The Ethiopians deserved to starve under an oppressive regime. And if someone found your severed head in Jeffrey Dahmer's, you most definitely did something to deserve it.

That's a despicable world view you've got there, Jack. I don't care if you avoid working to right the world's wrongs, but don't deny they exist just so you can live your privileged life with the comfort of knowing that you deserve it more than someone else.

UnspokenVoice: There are some exceptions. They are rare.

No, they are not rare.
 
2011-06-24 11:31:49 AM  

doubled99: DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:35:24 AM

doubled99: DingleberryMoose 2011-06-24 10:16:26 AM

doubled99: Everyone deserves everything that happens to them.

No, but everyone who drives 80 on a 50 mph speed limit road deserves a ticket.

/emergency circumstances excepted



No, take it literally.
The world is perfect justice.
Adjust your beliefs and ethics to this truth and everything makes sense.

Despite my opinion you're trolling, I'll bite again. Check my profile for what I do for a living. Explain how the shaken babies I've investigated deserved it.



I don't know. Original sin? Past life crime?
I don't mean to make light of what you do and the horrible things you encounter. I'm just being philosophical.
As someone who I'm sure asks himself "How can all these terrible things happen to the innocent", maybe you should stop trying to rationalize life's random cruelties and attempt to fit them into your world view.
Instead, completely reverse it, accept that the world is perfect, and that everyone gets exactly what they deserve.
Then when you see a seemingly innocent person have some terrible thing happen, instead of "why", you'll just think "Wow. He must have done something really bad. Hmmm."
Just a thought. it might provide peace of mind.


Peace of mind for someone with my job goes like this: I did everything I could to prevent recurrence. It even works some of the time.
 
2011-06-24 11:52:19 AM  
DingleberryMoose



A) thanks for being a buzzkill and injecting serious, real life tragedy into a random thread and making me all serious.
B) Glad there's people like you out there doing this kind of work. Keep it up!
 
2011-06-24 11:54:59 AM  

doubled99: DingleberryMoose



A) thanks for being a buzzkill and injecting serious, real life tragedy into a random thread and making me all serious.
B) Glad there's people like you out there doing this kind of work. Keep it up!


Buzzkill would make an excellent alt. And, meh, it's a job.
 
2011-06-24 12:12:42 PM  

Babwa Wawa: That's a despicable world view you've got there, Jack. I don't care if you avoid working to right the world's wrongs, but don't deny they exist just so you can live your privileged life with the comfort of knowing that you deserve it more than someone else.


Actual Buddhism doesn't take karma as an excuse for not helping others. To use a very simple example, in Buddhism, animals are beings that have committed certain sins and been reborn as animals as a result. They deserve to be animals because of what they did. But, Buddhists are encouraged to be vegetarians, out of compassion.

Active help is, of course, also encouraged, but I figured that most people here would know that Buddhists tend to be vegetarians, so it would be a familiar example.

Those on the Bodhisattva path can sort of get away without helping, but that's only through the logic that focusing on meditation will help them become a Buddha more quickly, and Buddhas can save many more people much more quickly. Even so, it doesn't really fit with the stories of the past lives of the historical Buddha, since he spent plenty of lifetimes helping others.
 
2011-06-24 12:27:31 PM  

blueknight: does everyone in florida look inbred?


No, some of them just look old.
 
2011-06-24 12:33:15 PM  
Failure to launch, drugs, parenting styles, philosophy, child abuse, and Buddhism all in one thread. No wonder I love Fark.
 
2011-06-24 12:40:43 PM  
Looks like an emaciated Steve Buscemi... if that's even possible.
 
2011-06-24 12:41:35 PM  
I was told there would be no meth.
 
2011-06-24 12:43:36 PM  

Babwa Wawa: No, they are not rare.


Bullshiat. Well, bullshiat if you're on the same subject as I. I suppose you could be referring to third world shiatholes but I prefer limiting myself to the topic at hand - which is the area where these thread stories and linked articles are taking place - not in caste systems nor in areas where there is no room for improvement. Except that, even in those places, I suspect they can improve on their lot in life should they work for it. Children excepted (as mentioned above)...

But you can blame an outside force if you want. You might just as well decide to believe in fate and resign yourself to a life of religion. It is called responsibility...

Oh, and to add to that... Why yes, yes I do blame the victim. Running around in bad cities at night in skimpy clothing and drunk? Got raped? Durp... Congrats... You're to blame. Now if the above case were someone who'd never heard of rape, never been in that city, and had been forced to consume the inebriating liquids then maybe they share no blame. Even then I'd still blame them for that in today's information age. They could have and should have educated themselves.

The poor aren't poor because they make good choices. The addicts did have a choice to use or not. You are, perhaps, unsuccessful because you opt to spend your time here on Fark instead of bettering yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I get it. I understand that in order to be lazy and not be ashamed of it that people have to externalize the reasons. I, too, wish I could rid myself of accountability and be free of responsibility for my actions. I, too, wish I could blame other people for my failings. I too would have liked to sit around unbathed and unkempt, leeching off the charity of those around me, and making it all better by whining about how it was not my fault instead of actually doing any work. I, too, wish I could be lazy and unrealistic. I get it. I understand.

So, well, you can blame it on the unseen cause of choice and refuse to accept accountability. Perhaps you believe that you're predestined to hell at birth too? I'm sure it isn't your fault, snowflake, I'll just think of you as being mildly retarded. It is fine by me. Perhaps you can blame your lack of successes on your mental deficiencies? At least then you can say it is beyond your control, you were born retarded.

I'm a bit old now so perhaps I'm not the best to speak with you on the subject. Somewhere in the 1970s we seem to have stopped teaching people that they're responsible for what they do. We started allowing people to blame other people for things they should have had control over. If somebody makes you angry, that is YOUR fault. You allowed them to control your emotions. By the same token, if somebody punches you in the mouth because you made them angry, that TOO is your fault - you pissed off somebody who can and will punch you in the mouth if you make them angry.

It isn't a very difficult thing. Given your generic and sophomoric response of "nuh uh" I'm inclined to believe you're too young to actually have an opinion that matters thus you may wish to try talking to one of your peers that seems to be more successful than you are. Ask them to explain the concept of "personal responsibility" against the concept of "fate" (along with an emphasis on how it is intellectually lazy and dishonest as well as denigrating to those who are poor and striving or are minorities that are working to succeed).

I probably should not devote this much time to somebody who's limited to a basic "nuh uh" response but I'm bored. However... In order for your statement to be correct the following must also be correct: Those people starting from a disadvantaged position that achieve success do not do so on their own merits. Our president must therefore be president not despite their color but because of it - it was given to him because ____ (these mysterious external forces that control our fates).

Sorry but this is a much more modern age. I stopped believing in fate when I was a child. I wish you well should you opt to mature. Hell, I wish you well even if you don't opt to do mature. The reality is that you're wrong.

And, I guess, I'm sorry if you're in a position where it seems like your statement is true. Trust me, however, it isn't. It may seem like it but I can assure you that if you work hard enough, associate with better people, and make the effort you can (and will) improve your lot in life. You are unlikely to become a billionaire. You aren't likely to become president. You can, however, learn all there is to know about digging ditches, associate with the foreman, and eventually demand better wages or even work your way up the ladder so that you are able to stay out of the ditches on your own. If you don't have a job then go get one. Is it easy? Nope. It sure as hell isn't easy for you folk out there right now. It is not impossible. Go to Georgia and pick fruit if you must. Go to a day labor place. Don't waste what you earn on things you don't need and invest everything you can into something that will make your situation more likely to be more successful and, eventually, easier.

/sighs
//you seem to have your heart in the right place but you're an idiot still
/it sucks but, yeah, it is (by far) more often then not your own fault
 
2011-06-24 12:45:17 PM  

namegoeshere: No. Allowing the child to face the consequences of his own actions is good parenting. Teaching the child that whatever he does, Mummy and Daddy will make it all better is shiatty parenting.


Mom and Dad's duty (and ability) to fix things for their stupid kid drops off precipitously at 18, and if they're good parents, they'll have taught their kid that lesson before that day arrives.

I don't think we should be spending the money to arrest, prosecute, and jail people for minor marijuana offenses, but whether it should be or not, it is illegal. If you get yourself arrested over it, you're a...

media.giantbomb.com
 
2011-06-24 01:21:59 PM  
Not that I agree fully with Babwa Wawa, as my previous post will attest, but please allow me to try to give a response to your claims that isn't based on either religion or fate.

UnspokenVoice: In order for your statement to be correct the following must also be correct: Those people starting from a disadvantaged position that achieve success do not do so on their own merits.


Correct; they were dependent on the people around them. A child had to have access to education in order to become educated. If the taxpayers around him did not pay their taxes, there would have been no school to teach the child. So, a child does not become educated solely on their own merits; they become educated with the help of others.

Similarly, a young adult gets their first job because someone else is offering them a job. If there were literally no jobs available anywhere in the world, and all productive niches were filled, the person would not be able to be gainfully employed. If all land were owned by someone else and they refused to sell, he would also not be able to simply become a farmer. The young adult is dependent on other people choosing to allow him to work; he cannot force that situation to come to be solely through his own merits.

Are these examples extreme? Of course. Your next demand shows why:

Our president must therefore be president not despite their color but because of it - it was given to him because ____ (these mysterious external forces that control our fates).

This suggests that there are two options: either a person has complete control over the results of their life (such as by overcoming being black), or he has no control at all (such as it being given to him by fate).

Indeed, Obama is our President in part because he is black. There are some people who voted for him specifically because he is black, and regardless, if he had not been black his life experiences would have been different. This has nothing to do with religion or fate, but the choices of those around him. Obama could have been the smartest, most educated, most attractive, most moral, most hard-working person in the world, but if other people had not chosen to vote for him, he would not have become President.

And that, in fact, is the counterargument to your claim: free will exists not just for me, but also for everyone else in the world. I can do my best to influence what other people will do, but I am not God. Insulting someone will influence them to punch me in the face, but they have the free will not to. Not insulting someone does not guarantee that they won't punch me, either.

We are all dependent on the freely-made choices of everyone around us, and our share of the praise or blame only covers what we, ourselves, are able to do to affect those choices. We bear no blame for others' unpredictable actions or preexisting inclinations.
 
2011-06-24 01:38:54 PM  

UnspokenVoice: Bullshiat. Well, bullshiat if you're on the same subject as I. I suppose you could be referring to third world shiatholes but I prefer limiting myself to the topic at hand .


You're talking about responsibility. The topic at hand is essentially (as StarryHeavens points out), karma. Doubled99 says "Everyone deserves everything that happens to them", then goes on to say that s/he means it literally, and cites original sin and past crime life.

The religious concept of karma is one of the most evil religious concepts ever devised by man. It's described very well in the wikipedia article thusly:

"God does not make one suffer for no reason nor does He make one happy for no reason. God is very fair and gives you exactly what you deserve."

This probably does lead people to perform good acts that they may not otherwise perform. On the other hand, it's used by some to enjoy their own comfortable lifestyle without that nagging guilt that you don't deserve it. I'm sure it gives a sense of peace. But it's also used to justify outrageous human institutions such as the caste system and slavery.

My issue with the idea of karma is not that bad behavior doesn't come around and bite people in the ass. It's that with karma, if, say, you die because a farking jet crashed into your office one sunny Tuesday morning, it's your fault. If you're sold into slavery, it's your fault. If you get gang-raped trying to get water from the well for your family, it's your fault.

It's an inherently evil worldview.

UnspokenVoice: //you seem to have your heart in the right place but you're an idiot still


You seem to have your heart in the right place, but you're arguing about a completely different subject than anyone else here. Who's the idiot again?
 
2011-06-24 02:02:15 PM  

UnspokenVoice: And, I guess, I'm sorry if you're in a position where it seems like your statement is true. Trust me, however, it isn't. It may seem like it but I can assure you that if you work hard enough, associate with better people, and make the effort you can (and will) improve your lot in life. You are unlikely to become a billionaire. You aren't likely to become president. You can, however, learn all there is to know about digging ditches, associate with the foreman, and eventually demand better wages or even work your way up the ladder so that you are able to stay out of the ditches on your own. If you don't have a job then go get one. Is it easy? Nope. It sure as hell isn't easy for you folk out there right now. It is not impossible. Go to Georgia and pick fruit if you must. Go to a day labor place. Don't waste what you earn on things you don't need and invest everything you can into something that will make your situation more likely to be more successful and, eventually, easier.


Just getting around to fully reading your idiotic post that completely misses the mark. What the hell gives you the idea that I'm not doing just great? That I didn't do pretty much exactly what you describe?

I'd like you to go preach your shiat to the billions of poor, uneducated, powerless, and disenfranchised people outside of the comfortable little bubble you live in. Explain to them how they really do deserve to be in the situation they find themselves in. If you're going to get gang raped going to the well for water, then get your water somewhere else. It's pretty simple, after all.
 
2011-06-24 02:06:16 PM  
Regarding the current deep philosophical debate: sometimes unexplainable and bad things happen to people who do or do not appear to deserve it. Some people have an intrinsic need to know why. We, as a species, have karma and Job and reincarnation theories and caste systems as a result. None of these would be necessary if people could simply accept happenstance as happenstance.
 
2011-06-24 03:28:36 PM  

Babwa Wawa: You seem to have your heart in the right place, but you're arguing about a completely different subject than anyone else here. Who's the idiot again?


You might wish to read the (single sentence which I quoted in its entirety) text that I was responding to that you then opted to respond to and then try to figure out what the subject is again. Hint: It isn't karma and you can't very well respond with "nuh uh" and believe you then get to dictate a subject. So, I'm still going with the you're an idiot with probably good intentions. Seriously - go look at what I responded to. It isn't a quote that was taken out of context. You don't get to decide the subject matter between a conversation between myself and another. Go read it again... I'll wait and respond later if you wish though I doubt you'll actually understand.

Starry Heavens: Correct; they were dependent on the people around them. A child had to have access to education in order to become educated. If the taxpayers around him did not pay their taxes, there would have been no school to teach the child. So, a child does not become educated solely on their own merits; they become educated with the help of others.


Please note that I excluded children (with some exceptions) in my Boobies. Again, also note, that I think people expect too much or feel entitled to more. The statement that they deserve what they get is, for the most part, true. If you apply yourself in the environment we have and work then you CAN eke out an existence that is better than what you'd have without it and, like it or not, that is what you deserve. You don't deserve a posh life. There are exceptions, my bullshiat number was one percent, that do not get what they deserve. They're the ones who responded with a "nuh uh" to my response which I took as an all inclusive response for lack of better information. If you see their additional response to me you'll see that they have since decided I was talking about karma - how they got that from my statement is a bit of a stretch though I can see why they may think it applies.

Starry Heavens: We are all dependent on the freely-made choices of everyone around us, and our share of the praise or blame only covers what we, ourselves, are able to do to affect those choices. We bear no blame for others' unpredictable actions or preexisting inclinations.


True and again, the number that I pulled out of my ass was some 3+ million people in this country alone to account for those rare instances. I'm not sure why they are spouting gibberish that hasn't a whole heck of a lot to do with what I was responding to. But yes... With rare exception you get what you put into it.

This obviously doesn't extend to (as I mentioned) things like caste systems (like in India where it is outlawed but still practiced) or in places where free will has, by in large, been eliminated (impoverished countries and dictatorships).

Up to a certain level even the handicapped are fully able to improve on their situation. We aren't in full control, of course, because free will extends to all. However, it is a rare time indeed when somebody is assaulted for no reason and completely at random. I guess I believe in the "you deserve what you get" thing more than most. Perhaps an example of my opinion is a good idea? I don't know... Hmm...

If you own a convenience store in a city and that store doesn't have a barrier between the cashier and the customers and your store gets robbed and your employee gets shot and dies and his family comes out and shoots you and you die then it is my opinion that you deserved all of that along the way. Should you be getting robbed? Nope. However you put a store in a high crime area in this example - you deserved it. You should have known full well that it was not only likely it was very likely to happen. And the same goes on for the rest of the above horrific example.

Maybe I hold people to a higher level of accountability. I have been very poor in the past. To the tune of having negative money, so to speak, and no way to provide for my new family. (I deserved that, by the way. I put myself in that situation.) I re-joined the military and finished my education after that.

There's a small town called Farmington, Maine not far from here. They recently had a college kid get shot by accident because his friend was literally playing with a loaded handgun (playing with it - I kid you not - treating it like a toy) and he was shot and killed. I consider it his fault. He had ample time to remove himself from the situation.

On the other side there was someone not too many years back who was sitting in their house when a hunter missed their target and the person in the house was killed. I could go so far as to say, well they put their house in the woods so they deserve it but that would be absolutely moronic. Those situations do happen but they are infinitesimally unlikely and only serve to reenforce my made up statistic of 99% of the time.

Anyhow, obvious exemptions (as mentioned) are the young and I suppose we should include those who are incapable of making choices on their own. There are some that, for whatever reason, society insists on keeping alive. Those people should have been included in my earlier statements. Everyone else? Nah... I like my made up number of 99% but in the spirit of compromise I'll say 98%.

Ah well. It is tough to respond to a generic "nuh uh" and probably a tongue stuck out or some crap, that is what started their... Whatever they're doing. I did enjoy your post though. It is horrific to say that Obama is (in part) president because he is black but it is true. I am kind of shocked that nobody came out screaming at that. You should say that on the politics tab sometime. But, yeah, there are things beyond our control, those don't typically determine "what we deserve" in my opinion. I don't think we are entitled to the same things that many people seem to think we are. I can't even say that, in my opinion, everyone deserves life.

We could, for the sake of mental bubble gum, also examine the idea of what we truly deserve. Ignoring the PC, do we even deserve life or freedom? Do we deserve that simply by virtue of being born? Hmm... A noble thought process indeed.

Babwa Wawa: Just getting around to fully reading your idiotic post that completely misses the mark


Err... Perhaps you should have gotten around to reading all of it before responding? Go way back up. Read what I wrote. Read what I responded. Perhaps you should have done that prior to responding in the first place?

Nah... Go ahead and just jump to wild conclusions and change the topic as you wish and do it all without actually getting all of the information. Go ahead... Actually? Never mind. You're dismissed.
 
2011-06-24 04:11:16 PM  

UnspokenVoice: You might wish to read the (single sentence which I quoted in its entirety) text that I was responding to that you then opted to respond to and then try to figure out what the subject is again. Hint: It isn't karma and you can't very well respond with "nuh uh" and believe you then get to dictate a subject. So, I'm still going with the you're an idiot with probably good intentions. Seriously - go look at what I responded to. It isn't a quote that was taken out of context. You don't get to decide the subject matter between a conversation between myself and another. Go read it again... I'll wait and respond later if you wish though I doubt you'll actually understand.


I didn't dictate the subject. The subject was Doubled99's - and it was that people always deserve their lot in life. You (nobody else) decided that statement applies only to societies where opportunity is more or less equal and there's a more or less functional justice system.

It's clear from Doubled99's posts that "everybody gets what they deserve" is a universally applicable notion, which means he's talking about karma. And karma != responsibility for one's actions.

But you go on calling me an idiot.

UnspokenVoice: Err... Perhaps you should have gotten around to reading all of it before responding? Go way back up. Read what I wrote. Read what I responded. Perhaps you should have done that prior to responding in the first place?


I stopped reading and responded after it was clear that you misinterpreted a religious/philosophical construct as a commentary on the role of responsibility in society. The other paragraphs were full of other misinterpretations. I'm young (I'm 39), somehow unsuccessful (doing fine, thanks), and I blame others for any misfortune I have (I don't have much misfortune, but the mistakes I make are my own), and that I don't know how to work (I do).

You read one sentence of a post, decided that it was something you feel passionate about, and then wrote a farking book on the topic you misinterpreted.
 
2011-06-24 04:18:11 PM  

UnspokenVoice: Nah... Go ahead and just jump to wild conclusions and change the topic as you wish and do it all without actually getting all of the information. Go ahead... Actually? Never mind. You're dismissed.


You call me an idiot and then have the nerve to expect a civil discourse? Go fark yourself.
 
2011-06-24 04:30:18 PM  

UnspokenVoice: I think people expect too much or feel entitled to more. The statement that they deserve what they get is, for the most part, true. If you apply yourself in the environment we have and work then you CAN eke out an existence that is better than what you'd have without it and, like it or not, that is what you deserve. You don't deserve a posh life.


I think I may be understanding you a bit better now. It seems like you're using the phrase "get what they deserve" to mean variations upon an innate standard of living. For instance, I believe that you're saying that a child in a middle-class family who doesn't really apply himself deserves to wind up being lower-middle class. He took what was given to him and didn't live up to the potential. Similarly, a child in a very poor family who works really hard also deserves to wind up being lower-middle class. So, it wouldn't be possible to look at a snapshot of someone's life and say whether they deserve it because they did well or did poorly.

This would mean that someone who "deserves" to make a million dollars a year could be a far worse person than someone who "deserves" to make twenty thousand dollars a year.

(Incidentally, I'm just using money as an example; one could use number of friends, number of broken bones, level of physical attractiveness, or other metrics as one so chooses.)

Is that a correct understanding of what you mean by the word "deserves?"

UnspokenVoice: It is horrific to say that Obama is (in part) president because he is black but it is true. I am kind of shocked that nobody came out screaming at that. You should say that on the politics tab sometime.


Well, that would just be a terrifying experiment, now wouldn't it? :p

Of course, president is kind of a funny example, because there are so few that every single one is anomalous within society. Changing any small thing within his life could easily have altered its course. Even just a butterfly flapping its wings in Kenya when he was born...

The way you summarized my argument makes me think of something that may be important for this. You were kindly very careful to summarize my argument by saying "in part." I think if you also included that phrase in your own examples, many more people would agree with them.

For instance, I agree with this example:

UnspokenVoice: If you own a convenience store in a city and that store doesn't have a barrier between the cashier and the customers and your store gets robbed and your employee gets shot and dies and his family comes out and shoots you and you die then it is my opinion that you deserved all of that along the way. Should you be getting robbed? Nope. However you put a store in a high crime area in this example - you deserved it. You should have known full well that it was not only likely it was very likely to happen. And the same goes on for the rest of the above horrific example.


In particular, what I like is that you imply at the end that everyone is to blame in this situation -- the robber for robbing, the employee for working in an unsafe situation, the family for not stopping the employee from working there and also for retaliating, and the owner for situating his store there and not providing enough protection. Every single one of these actors played a part in the drama. Two of the parties committed illegal actions, but the other two didn't do enough to prevent them.

The way you phrase things, though, seems to place all the blame and praise for everything on a specific individual. For example...

UnspokenVoice: Your wife cheated on you because you're useless in all accounts, not because she's a whore. You know... Your fault. Thus you deserved it.


If the wife had acted appropriately, she wouldn't have cheated on this hypothetical man. She would have instead talked to him about any issues, and if that didn't work, she would have divorced him. The man can be blamed for influencing his wife to cheat, but if she didn't already have some inclination to cheat, she wouldn't have done it. He is to blame for encouraging the situation, but she is to be blame for actually doing it.

So, it is definitely his fault "in part," but the phrase "he deserved it" or "it is his fault" does not usually imply that the responsibility is shared.

The responsibility would only not be shared if this actually were a world ruled by Fate, in which Action A would always lead to Result B, such that every choice a person made would have a predictable result, regardless of the actions of every other individual in the world. I don't believe anyone here believes that to be the case, however.

/long post is long
 
2011-06-24 06:58:18 PM  

yert: Misconduc: So this is what the Banjo kid from Deliverance looks like all grown up, always wondered what happened to him.


He looks like a sweet fellow. I hope Hollywood has treated him well.
 
2011-06-24 09:42:04 PM  

DingleberryMoose: *snert* And you even checked my profile for backstory. Well done.


this is why i read fark threads.
 
Displayed 29 of 79 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report