Ah, Kirk Cameron. At least he can sleep at night knowing his career didn't lead him to become "Bibleman."

The point is getting missed. The idea is that when a person goes to the court to be judged, they are not being judged by a court of a different religion to themselves, but one of no religion. If you have to walk past the ten commandments, a crucifix or a half man/half goat playing the pipes, then you can be pretty sure the court has an agenda other than impartially comparing your case to the law of the land, as made by corrupt, money seeking, power brokers who inherit their power and make most of their agreements in secret, which is only fair.

In England we don't have this problem. The Church is part of the state but has no power. It is not only contained, but also constitutionally (I use the word loosely) required to respect other religions, and to afford them equal status. It does this so well, that it's almost a joke.

Which is why, kids, we have absolutely amazing cathedrals that aren't even looking tired from 1000 years of use, and yours tend to look like Wal-Mart or fitness centres.

/non sequitered myself to within an inch of death. Inserted extra trolling.

I bet if president hillary wanted a holiday tree there, complete with sex toys, THAT would be constitutional, right? You liberal f*ckwads.

funny how all the farkers who whine and moan about Attorney General Aschcroft are in favor of preventing free speech in Alabama. you bunch of hypocritical morons. and no, no law was passed, so there was no establishment of religion, and no, it's not specific to Christianity.

"I bet if president hillary wanted a holiday tree there, complete with sex toys, THAT would be constitutional, right?"

yeah, that's right. idiot.

That's funny Shepherd

I wonder though, how many young farkers would clue into the "Call of Cthulhu" by HP Lovecraft...great pic though.

Atheism is a religion? What an odd notion. Tell me, is "not collecting stamps" a hobby? Is "not skydiving" an extreme sport? Is "lazy unemployed oaf" an occupation?
Not having a religion is not itself a religion, people. Even the 'hard atheism' of "There is no God" is no more outrageous a positino than "There are no underpants gnomes". Ever seen one? Ever seen the slightest shred of evidence that one exists? Is there in fact a lot of evidence to the contrary? Then until the universe shows otherwise, There is neither a god nor an army of underpants gnomes!

"funny how all the farkers who whine and moan about Attorney General Aschcroft are in favor of preventing free speech in Alabama. you bunch of hypocritical morons. and no, no law was passed, so there was no establishment of religion, and no, it's not specific to Christianity. "

also an idiot.

GaidinCanuck

You are wrong. Our (America's) laws do not originate from and are not related to the bible or the ten commandments of christianity. Furthermore, these commandments are only one of over two dozen versions found in various christian sects that conflict with one another. In each version of the christian bible, there is mention also of two versions of the ten commandments which conflict each other. This version represented here is one that was destroyed and replaced by different ones by god, supposedly.

Three of these commandments are even relative to American law, to not kill, to not steal, and to not lie. These three concepts are far older than christianity, which itself is nothing but a poor compilation of older myths. Christianity borrowed these concepts as it did the rest of it's content. Every major religion and every civilization since the dawn of mankind has had these at it's core. Without these basic concepts, civilization could not exist.

What you suggest is the same as suggesting that because god mentions fish, long john silver's is a church. Fish predate christianity as well.

Please get your facts straight before giving in to fundamentalist propaganda. They'd like you to think this is a theocracy, but the entire purpose of the settlement of this country was to escape such a government. Apparently christians didn't learn the lesson.



Spectral,
Atheism is not a religion. Please note the definition of religion:
1.
a.Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b.A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

Atheists do not fit any of these definitions. Remove head from colon, clean out ears, then try to speak coherently.


Skiiinstructor
So you live by "worship no other god besides me"? Do you make statues or have statues? Why should anyone who is not a christian be encouraged by the government to behave as a christian? The irony is that christians are the highest percentage of convicted criminals, rapists, murderers, and thieves in this country. Perhaps we should all act like them.

They should replace it with a statue of this:

Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. How, then, can any court derive a lawful basis for ruling on this? This sets up exactly what the framers of the Constitution wanted to avoid: The Church of England vs all other religion terror they and their forefathers escaped from since the pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.

By ruling on it, the courts create polarization on what should be a 'non-issue'. If we take the US Dist. court ruling to its logical conclusion, then any law based on the 10 commandments also must be null and void. I bet murder and theft will be the last to go.

I meant this:

Get that goddamned thing out of that public lobby. I'm stinkin tired of these christians!

When the Pilgrims came to America, they had already been kicked out of tolerant Holland, where they had been offered asylum; once they came to this country, they proceeded to set up the most repressive regime the world had ever seen, about the equal of Ayatollah's Iran but with Christianity as its basis.

FEAR THOSE PILGRIMS, WEAR THE BIG HAT OR FALL AT THEIR FEET AND KISS THE SHOES WITH BUCKLES ON THEM!!
/thinks the discussion is already getting silly.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. How, then, can any court derive a lawful basis for ruling on this?"

dumbest post so far.

KkrrRRZZZZ

Long ago :)

2003-08-27 01:10:16 PM Dyolf_Knip

Is "lazy unemployed oaf" an occupation?

It is for my brother-in-law...

I AM NOT CHRISTIAN. AND NEITHER ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. WE HAVE OTHER ICONS IN THERE; WHY DO THOSE GET TO STAY? oh, right, because the left didn't have some fringe group pretend to care about it.

Everyone on the side of reason, that is, the 'we really need seperation between church and state' side, please stop arguing. The people you are arguing against think theres an invisible man in the sky, can't be convinced otherwise, and get mad at sane people thinking this is a dumb idea. It's like arguing with a tree.

son of secret police;


I'd say a mighty admin is going to come down and smite thee very soon..

I refer you to FarkQ

Trolling other Fark members: Fark is a site whose mascot is a squirrel with huge nuts, and whose favorite pasttime is boobies and beer. Funny and weird news stories are how the ball got rolling. Most of the comments made here threaten bladder control. Unfortunately, disagreements can and will happen - but there is no need for them to become personal.
TotalFark accounts come with an Ignore Feature. If posts from a particular user are intolerable, they may be added to your personal ignore list. Personal attacks made by anyone including name calling, threats, and any other form of directed attacks against other users will result in suspension of posting.

"I AM NOT CHRISTIAN. AND NEITHER ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. WE HAVE OTHER ICONS IN THERE; WHY DO THOSE GET TO STAY? oh, right, because the left didn't have some fringe group pretend to care about it."

yeah, it's all those goddam liberals who wrote the goddam constitution, cap'n.

Newsflash: god is ficticious.

Why do people continue to say that our laws came from the ten commandments? They didn't! To quote a treaty signed John Adams, a man WHO HELPED WRITE OUR LAWS: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,"

My Co Workers and I have come to an agreement on this matter, and since we argue all the fricking time, this in itself should be taken as a sign from whatever Deity that you proscribe to that our assesment is just.

Build a new monument, round based, big flame (natural gas) up the middle, emboss a large pentagram on it (under it it if you like but put a plaque there assuring everyone the pentagram is there) on top place a metal bush (catching catholics, protestants, jewish folks and followers of Islam all at once) hang a few cows, elephants and reclining fat dudes off of it to catch some of the other religions, then add a sign that sayus "your religious artifact here" to catch any they forget. Then put it outside, in the yard of the place with the words "I love or hate you all, depending on what you choose to believe -- your god or God or gods" on a sign in front of it.

Everyone will love it and hate it at the same time.

Equal time.

sorry, dad.

didn't mean to say anything to disagree with you.

i'll be good from now on.

i promise.

It's like arguing with a tree.

Are you advocating the use of chain saws here?

If so, do you prefer gas-powered or electric?

2003-08-27 01:08:31 PM captain_napalm
I bet if president hillary wanted a holiday tree there, complete with sex toys, THAT would be constitutional, right? You liberal f*ckwads.

Constitutional? Yeah, probably. Unless, of course, the sex toys were worshipped by a large group of people who insist that everyone else in the world should also worship the sex toys and abide by the commandments of the sex toys.

son of secret police;

It's not me sonny. I posted a picture of nips last week I thought was ok, and got a 24hr suspension. Just trying to help..

Later,

Woof, this place is filled with religious nuts.

Something like this? Millions of everyday Americans still want our local, state, and Federal governments to acknowledge that their personal values, by which they live their daily lives, are so fragile that they require secular support.

Henchman: I hadn't thought of that, but I like where you're going with this.

Gas powered are better, I think, but both are acceptable. :)

please tell me someone other than myself caught the protest coverage on foxnews this morning.

the best part of that coverage was the crazy protestor who just kept screaming "put it back" and "take your hands off of our god". it was so great, the calmer xstians kept trying to calm the guy down to no avail. it really made them look crazy.

I concur with Gregg Easterbrook's thoughts on this. He summed it up beautifully. The Brookings fellow writes TMQ for ESPN.com. In yesterday's column, he mentioned this asshat judge.


Warning -- Serious Item! Judge Roy Moore, the publicity-seeker who put the 2.5-ton Ten Commandments in the Alabama state courthouse, declared Monday that he could disobey the direct order of a federal judge because "judges do not make laws, they interpret them." Since, Moore continued, an interpretation can be wrong, therefore he may defy a judicial order. So presumably Judge Moore also thinks that if he sentences a man to prison, the man can declare that the interpretation might be wrong and walk free? It's exactly the same logic.

Moore further said that the First Amendment precept, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion," does not apply to him because "I am not Congress." Drag this incompetent lunatic out of the court quickly, please. Anyone with entry-level knowledge of Constitutional law knows that the 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, was intended to extend the Bill of Rights to state governments; that a 1937 Supreme Court decision specifically declared that the First Amendment binds state officials like Judge Moore.


As a church-going Christian -- TMQ was in this church on Sunday -- I find it deeply embarrassing when Christianity is associated, in the public eye, with hucksters like Moore. I find it embarrassing, too, when Christians supporting Moore's hunk of stone suggest that a big object in a public square is what matters, rather than the power of God's message itself. Anyone who needs to look at a big object in order to believe, doesn't really believe.


And consider that in the same state, Alabama, where the Judge Moore sideshow is getting nonstop media attention, Republican Gov. Bob Riley is risking his political neck to campaign for tax-law changes that would increase taxes on the well-off while exempting everyone who makes less than $17,000 annually. Gov. Riley phrases the campaign in religious terms, saying, "According to our Christian ethics, we're supposed to love God, love each other and help take care of the poor." How come this pure and admirable Christian sentiment gets no media attention while the egomaniac with the hunk of stone in the same state's courthouse enjoys round-the-clock coverage?

Diogenes,
I'll work on that.


*screaming*
AK SO! GNOCK VIN IMMEL! bwakakakakakakak
*smacks-own-face*

How's it coming now?

well then, dad.

guess i'll post anything i want. as long as it's ok with you.

"take your hands off of our god"

priceless.

garm, the commandments existed BEFORE THERE WAS A CHRIST. in conclusion, you're a moron.

son of secret police;

Be my guest....personally I don't care...

Which is why, kids, we have absolutely amazing cathedrals that aren't even looking tired from 1000 years of use, and yours tend to look like Wal-Mart or fitness centres.

Nice broad brush, pom. Come to NEW England and you will see some amazing churches. Even in New Hampshire, we have little wooden congregational centers that have been standing since the 1600s.

The stable-like pole-barn churches are mostly down south, in the midwest and spread out among various other underdeveloped farm states.

thanks everso, dad.

2003-08-27 01:17:29 PM TLBreer
Newsflash: god is ficticious.

Well, he maybe...or maybe not. You and I don't know, but I don't think it is right to "force" someone into it. Not that I am saying that this monument is "Forceing" anyone. It's not like the thing has lasers pointed at anyone who walks in and yells out "READ ME..BELIEVE IN ME!!" Then again..I don't really care what happens to it. Remove it, let it stay, I don't care.

Y'know, it occurs to me that these people that are upset about the removal of the statue fail to recall the scene in the movie that they hold in their head as the scene from the bible.

...Gold Bull... Hint Hint....Graven Images...Worshiping Idols....They Don't mean Fat men named Ruben....or skinny ones named Clay...

Oh and, uhh, Go Play Tron 2.0, due to the fact that it is the Shizznat.