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(Washington Post)   Capitoline Venus goes where??   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 39
    More: Interesting, Capitoline Venus, Venus, Pope Benedict  
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9801 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jun 2011 at 3:44 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-06-19 03:47:32 PM  
Slaves built the pyramids,
Slaves built the Parthenon,
Slaves, we thank you!
 
2011-06-19 03:51:49 PM  
Matriculating in the Rotunda, oh my
 
2011-06-19 03:52:05 PM  
Can someone explain the meaning of this?
'This particular Venus...was photographed for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'
 
2011-06-19 03:55:03 PM  

jaytkay: Can someone explain the meaning of this?
'This particular Venus...was photographed for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'


The statue was photographed for Nat's book, as in the dust jacket, I'd assume.
 
2011-06-19 04:01:56 PM  
hopefully it's not just a copy of the original.

/silly tourists, that masterpiece you thought was the real thing on your vacation, was just a copy, while the real one was being restored/repaired.
 
2011-06-19 04:03:07 PM  
Venus has a sponsor now?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-06-19 04:03:58 PM  
That's filthy! Why not create a national endowment for strip clubs while we're at it?
 
2011-06-19 04:12:19 PM  

StingerJ: That's filthy! Why not create a national endowment for strip clubs while we're at it?


0/10
 
2011-06-19 04:15:49 PM  
Uranus?
 
2011-06-19 04:16:50 PM  
I just saw the British Museum's Capitoline Venus (new window) yesterday so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2011-06-19 04:20:51 PM  
What's in your anus?
 
2011-06-19 04:23:02 PM  

SpinStopper: StingerJ: That's filthy! Why not create a national endowment for strip clubs while we're at it?

0/10


Wow, I didn't think that would be an obscure reference.

/would not censor the Venus de Venus just because you can see her spewers
 
2011-06-19 04:26:05 PM  

StingerJ: SpinStopper: StingerJ: That's filthy! Why not create a national endowment for strip clubs while we're at it?

0/10

Wow, I didn't think that would be an obscure reference.

/would not censor the Venus de Venus just because you can see her spewers


Sorry. Didn't catch the reference.

Still don't ;)
 
2011-06-19 04:29:41 PM  
Meh. After seeing a number of these famous works of art over the years I still can't understand why most of them are so famous. I remember the crowds around the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.

/Peasant
 
2011-06-19 04:31:07 PM  
Roman porn!
 
2011-06-19 04:36:04 PM  
"The Capitoline Venus, a full-scale nude,"

Cue the draperies, right-wing derpatologists and left-wing "halt womyns exploitation in western patriarchal society" groups.
 
2011-06-19 04:44:41 PM  

Linkster: jaytkay: Can someone explain the meaning of this?
'This particular Venus...was photographed for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'

The statue was photographed for Nat's book, as in the dust jacket, I'd assume.


But I don't think dust jackets had photos when the book was published in 1860. There are probably hundreds of later editions.

It's like saying "Palatino is a popular font, which was used for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'

Plus, fauns are particular mythological creatures, so I wager Venus was never, ever featured on the cover.
 
2011-06-19 04:47:56 PM  

LordBollocks: Meh. After seeing a number of these famous works of art over the years I still can't understand why most of them are so famous. I remember the crowds around the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.

/Peasant


Philistine
 
2011-06-19 04:52:47 PM  
The Capitoline Venus, a full-scale nude,

at 6' she was tall for the time. still is for a woman.
 
2011-06-19 04:52:50 PM  
Is this the chick that like needs arms and stuff?

/the government should like glue something on
 
2011-06-19 05:03:29 PM  

jaytkay: Linkster: jaytkay: Can someone explain the meaning of this?
'This particular Venus...was photographed for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'

The statue was photographed for Nat's book, as in the dust jacket, I'd assume.

But I don't think dust jackets had photos when the book was published in 1860. There are probably hundreds of later editions.

It's like saying "Palatino is a popular font, which was used for Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel "The Marble Faun."'

Plus, fauns are particular mythological creatures, so I wager Venus was never, ever featured on the cover.


covers.openlibrary.org
 
2011-06-19 05:08:33 PM  

Linkster: Linkster


OK, now that explains, gracias. The reporter can't tell the difference between one statue and another. Or male from female.
 
2011-06-19 05:10:14 PM  
Just because they took pics of it, doesn't mean they used them.
 
2011-06-19 05:10:25 PM  

King_Of_Kafiristan: I remember the crowds around the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.


I agree that the Venus de Milo is a bore, but while you were at the Louvre did you at least get to see the Winged Victory of Samothrace? Magnificent stuff (even with the head lopped off.)

/also a peasant
//but I know what I like
 
2011-06-19 05:30:46 PM  

big_hed: Venus has a sponsor now?


Well, they do deserve to be thrown from the Tarpeian Rock.
 
2011-06-19 05:42:45 PM  

Lone Stranger: Slaves built the pyramids,
Slaves built the Parthenon,
Slaves, we thank you!


Slaves! This is your sonnnngggg
 
2011-06-19 06:13:46 PM  

LordBollocks: the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.


Keep in mind that the Greeks figured out how to carve marble seemingly out of the blue. And then after Rome fell, no one carved a large scale marble statue until Michelangelo carved David. Marble, is pretty damn hard, it's why the Greeks could build the temples they did and stuff. Being as hard as it is marble can hold a lot of weight and so you can space out columns much further than the people like the Egyptians, who used sandstone or limestone, could. But being that hard, taking a slab of marble and turning it into a statue is pretty damn tricky. Especially when you don't have nice hardened steel implements to chisel away at it with. Another nice thing about marble is, because it's so hard, you can carve deeper reliefs into it than you can with sandstone or limestone. It's why Greek reliefs are so notable.

Also the out of the blue thing I said? Well it applies to the form of the statues themselves. Early Greek statues were rather stiff looking, figures standing almost bolt upright arms at the sides, one foot in front of the other. While this was less stiff looking than many earlier statues, still, not exactly very dynamic. Then they had some statues that showed what looked roughly like a figure walking, except both feet were flat on the floor, knees bet not entirely right and so on. And then they went full on realistic, figures in motion, the famous discus thrower was actually an early statue of this type. And on they went. And no one really knows how this happened, who did it first, where or exactly when. And while they could go heavy into nice ornamental details and so on, they could also create very simple figures that are flawless. And that's the deal with the Venus de Milo, it's that it's over 2000 years old, and as far as carving marble goes, flawless.

Now if you want ancient art to ooh and ahh over, that would be Roman painting, which featured not only some very nice colors, people painted realistically and the use of perspective. The use of perspective like carving marble statues got lost for a thousand years when Rome fell.
 
2011-06-19 06:28:24 PM  

alltandubh: King_Of_Kafiristan: I remember the crowds around the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.

I agree that the Venus de Milo is a bore, but while you were at the Louvre did you at least get to see the Winged Victory of Samothrace? Magnificent stuff (even with the head lopped off.)

/also a peasant
//but I know what I like


I just googled that and no I never got to see it. Thanks I'll check it out next time I'm over the channel
 
2011-06-19 06:34:29 PM  
WhyteRaven74
Keep in mind that the Greeks figured out how to carve marble seemingly out of the blue ...

Yes they were original in their time and have a high degree of difficulty. Kind of lost on me though when I'm expecting to find something to marvel at.

Thanks for a bit of education.
 
2011-06-19 06:48:55 PM  
www.aintitcool.com

They'll get to it before the insurance paperwork is signed.
 
2011-06-19 07:22:13 PM  
Just don't let this kid get near it:

i.acdn.us


/obscure?
 
2011-06-19 07:42:09 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Keep in mind that the Greeks figured out how to carve marble seemingly out of the blue. And then after Rome fell, no one carved a large scale marble statue until Michelangelo carved David. Marble, is pretty damn hard, it's why the Greeks could build the temples they did and stuff.


Marble is actually fairly soft compared to say granite. And less abrasive compared to sand stones and the like. Combine that with a uniform crystal structure and it's a good material for statures.

My take on the Greeks and the Romans is they were societies with concentrated wealth and thus could afford the time training needed to produce good artists. And the skilled labor needed to produce exceptional pieces. The Greeks has slaves, an empire based on cash crops (olives). Rome had slaves and Egyptian grain. After the Roman empire falls apart Europe fractures along tribal and linguistic lines, leaving small kingdoms none of which are large enough to support a critical mass of artists. However the lot of common people actually got better for a few centuries.
 
2011-06-19 07:43:34 PM  

Rufus Lee King: Capitoline Wolf, Rome, Georgia. Friggin' hideous.


Apparently given to the city of Rome by Mussolini.

I was going to point out that the original is an Estrucan bronze (with the twins added later) but checking up online, I see that it's now felt to be from the Middle Ages.
 
2011-06-19 08:01:37 PM  

gibbon1: Marble is actually fairly soft compared to say granite.


And it was the Romans who figured out how to work granite, which allowed them to build stuff the Greeks couldn't. Of course once they discovered cement and with it concrete they could build whatever they felt like since they weren't limited to whatever shapes they could carve stone into. And then when Rome fell, how to make cement/concrete was lost. For even longer than making marble statues and using perspective in painting.
 
2011-06-19 08:16:39 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Also the out of the blue thing I said? Well it applies to the form of the statues themselves. Early Greek statues were rather stiff looking, figures standing almost bolt upright arms at the sides, one foot in front of the other. While this was less stiff looking than many earlier statues, still, not exactly very dynamic. Then they had some statues that showed what looked roughly like a figure walking, except both feet were flat on the floor, knees bet not entirely right and so on. And then they went full on realistic, figures in motion, the famous discus thrower was actually an early statue of this type. And on they went. And no one really knows how this happened, who did it first, where or exactly when.


It's been a decade since I was in school, but as of ten years ago, the transition to the high Classical period in Greek art was becoming a lot less mysterious. A number of transitional sites had been excavated, and things like the Athenian Treasury at Delphi had been identified as an important transitional work.

There was a Renaissance in all the arts in Athens right around the time the Parthenon was built, so the leap forward in art it represents is no different than the leap forward that the Sistine Chapel ceiling represents.

The other, more important thing, is that there's an entire area of ancient art which we're completely lacking: very few Greek bronzes survive, and bronze allows you to do all sorts of interesting things, pushing figures further and further off their center. Almost all we know about Greek bronzes comes from marble copies, showing that the artists were later able to copy in marble what had originally been done in bronze.
 
2011-06-19 08:25:47 PM  

WhyteRaven74: LordBollocks: the Venus De Milo in the Louvre and when I finally worked my way to the front it was a total let down.

Keep in mind that the Greeks figured out how to carve marble seemingly out of the blue. And then after Rome fell, no one carved a large scale marble statue until Michelangelo carved David. Marble, is pretty damn hard, it's why the Greeks could build the temples they did and stuff. Being as hard as it is marble can hold a lot of weight and so you can space out columns much further than the people like the Egyptians, who used sandstone or limestone, could. But being that hard, taking a slab of marble and turning it into a statue is pretty damn tricky. Especially when you don't have nice hardened steel implements to chisel away at it with. Another nice thing about marble is, because it's so hard, you can carve deeper reliefs into it than you can with sandstone or limestone. It's why Greek reliefs are so notable.

Also the out of the blue thing I said? Well it applies to the form of the statues themselves. Early Greek statues were rather stiff looking, figures standing almost bolt upright arms at the sides, one foot in front of the other. While this was less stiff looking than many earlier statues, still, not exactly very dynamic. Then they had some statues that showed what looked roughly like a figure walking, except both feet were flat on the floor, knees bet not entirely right and so on. And then they went full on realistic, figures in motion, the famous discus thrower was actually an early statue of this type. And on they went. And no one really knows how this happened, who did it first, where or exactly when. And while they could go heavy into nice ornamental details and so on, they could also create very simple figures that are flawless. And that's the deal with the Venus de Milo, it's that it's over 2000 years old, and as far as carving marble goes, flawless.

Now if you want ancient art to ooh and ahh over, that would be Roman painting, which featured not only some very nice colors, people painted realistically and the use of perspective. The use of perspective like carving marble statues got lost for a thousand years when Rome fell.


Most of the "marble" Greek statues were actually bronze, which was melted down by the Romans for military use and replaced with marble statues, often modified to tolerate different stresses.

The Greeks learned their statuary most likely from the Egyptians, you can see the resemblance between the earliest kouroi and formal Egyptian mortuary statuary. The kouroi evolved to be much more dynamic, of course, but there's a pretty solid connection between Archaic Greek monumental statuary and that of Ancient Egypt. Once they started working in bronze, however, they quickly developed their own style. I don't see a major disconnect between early and later Greek statuary.
 
2011-06-19 08:36:21 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: no different than the leap forward that the Sistine Chapel ceiling represents.


Yeah we know more about Greek statues now, it's still a pretty big mystery. I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to one sculptor. Who just decided what was being done wasn't quite enough and came up with a whole new way of working. Especially in light of how fast things changed. As for the leap of the Sistine Chapel, I'd say a bigger leap was actually earlier in the work of Robert Campin, Jan van Eyck and some others from up north.
 
2011-06-19 08:52:53 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Yeah we know more about Greek statues now, it's still a pretty big mystery. I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to one sculptor. Who just decided what was being done wasn't quite enough and came up with a whole new way of working. Especially in light of how fast things changed. As for the leap of the Sistine Chapel, I'd say a bigger leap was actually earlier in the work of Robert Campin, Jan van Eyck and some others from up north.


That was actually part of my point. People know the Sistine Chapel Ceiling and the Parthenon, but they're unaware of the smaller works which lead up to it and influenced Michelangelo (who was, for instance, obsessed by Northern European prints, which had a huge impact on his work throughout his life, and which were the easiest and quickest way northern art was transmitted to Italy). Likewise, there are plenty of late Archaic to early Classical sites and objects which prefigure what was done at the Parthenon.

Nova or one of the other PBS shows recently did a special on the Parthenon which highlighted some new discoveries, including a stone which has three different Greek units of measure correlated to a single standard. It was needed because the Parthenon was really a pan-Hellenic enterprise, drawing the best artisans from Corinth and Ionia as well as the region around Athens.

As to the earliest origins of Greek marble carving, they can be seen, as has been pointed out, in Egyptian art, which the Greeks would have seen in their travels (one of the most important discoveries of the last 50 years has been the extent and age of the sea-going trade in the Mediterranean, dating back far earlier than we originally thought). But while the Egyptians were limited in what they could do in large-scale sculpture because they used granite and basalt, the Greeks very quickly were able to make large-scale works in marble -which was much softer- and to move away from the purely frontal style of the Egyptians and into sculpture in the round.
 
2011-06-20 03:31:56 AM  

Kit Fister: Just don't let this kid get near it:

/obscure?


That's her favorite piece!
/And it was the statue of David, fool...
 
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