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(USA Today)   50% of college graduates think they're above average, and they're at least half right   (usatoday.com) divider line 79
    More: Obvious, college graduates, grade inflation, Clark University, San Diego State University, research program, students  
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3733 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2011 at 1:15 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-06-17 11:46:03 AM  
Subby was told there would be no math.
 
2011-06-17 01:17:44 PM  
Oh no, people feel good about themselves even if its temporarily misguided. Clearly this generation is a bunch of entitled failures.
 
2011-06-17 01:18:53 PM  
They are above average in their social science/psychology majors. Hell I bet the comms people know more than an engineer would ever know. Because, hey, those precious snowflakes are above average and better than me, a hard science major.
 
2011-06-17 01:19:38 PM  
I dont get it
 
2011-06-17 01:20:48 PM  

wbudnick: They are above average in their social science/psychology majors. Hell I bet the comms people know more than an engineer would ever know. Because, hey, those precious snowflakes are above average and better than me, a hard science major.


They may not know more, but they're more likely to get a do-nothing 6-figure "consulting" or "marketing" or job than you are.

I'd still rather be you and know something useful.
 
2011-06-17 01:22:04 PM  
Um, isn't that pretty easy to determine in most classes? If you have an A you're one or more standard deviations above the average, if you have a B you're between zero and one standard deviations above the average, C is between zero and one standard deviation below the average, etc.

Generally speaking, data on overall GPAs are available from your department as well. Not really that hard to evaluate your place in there.

//Though mean and sigma are usually determined with a couple outliers stripped out.
 
2011-06-17 01:23:33 PM  
Most of the time, at least.
 
2011-06-17 01:25:17 PM  
Ah, the snowflake generation.
 
2011-06-17 01:26:21 PM  
Only 50%?

Hell, 90% of drivers think they're "above average"

/too lazy to RTFA to see if the headline contains a subtle joke on it's content
 
2011-06-17 01:26:29 PM  
Also:

In the study, the authors also argue that intellectual confidence may have been bolstered by grade inflation, noting that, in 1966, only 19 percent of college students who were surveyed earned an "A" or "A-minus" average in high school, compared with 48 percent in 2009.

Guess what the top 48% of a bell curve is. Looks like self-assessment has been getting more accurate, there.
 
2011-06-17 01:26:44 PM  
Well, this ought to be good.

grinding_journalist: They may not know more, but they're more likely to get a do-nothing 6-figure "consulting" or "marketing" or job than you are.


Not anymore. Companies are going for known quantities and proven results. They have fewer jobs available now and many of those jobs are not coming back. The trend is to offshore what were once entry-level position. Even the company I work for is doing this. We hire only college grads, but right now almost all our hires are in the 30-55 year old range, who have at least a few years of good experience to their credit. The only college grads that are going to have very successful careers are the cream of the crop. The one's who skated through college in five of six years of partying and taking some BS degree are pretty much screwed. I kind of feel sorry for new graduates. The market just sucks for them.
 
2011-06-17 01:26:52 PM  

grinding_journalist: They may not know more, but they're more likely to get a do-nothing 6-figure "consulting" or "marketing" or job than you are.

I'd still rather be you and know something useful.


You know I guess I am as much of an education snob as the next person and frequently looked down my nose at all the management and marketing types while I was getting my accounting degree, and when it came to the bachelor's level I still think their degrees were pretty worthless. Then, when I was getting my masters in accounting (MAcc) I got to meet some folks getting their masters in marketing research (MMR) as we shared some of the same electives with the MBA types. MMR types are almost pure math performing a ton of regression analysis and other higher end computational work. Much respect.

/I still am amazed though that MBA folks actually get an "advanced" degree for their coursework and start in the high five to low six figure range
//Might add an MBA in the future since it is just a damn easy program
 
2011-06-17 01:28:06 PM  

wbudnick: They are above average in their social science/psychology majors. Hell I bet the comms people know more than an engineer would ever know. Because, hey, those precious snowflakes are above average and better than me, a hard science major.


This. And even in the hard sciences, I find my peers are lazy and just not well educated on the subject matter.
It's my perspective that you should come to class prepared on the information, and that class is an environment to ask questions, challenge ones self, where as, I recognize my class mates as using class as a place to first expose themselves to the information, many even seem to think its is the responsibility of the teacher to make sure they know the material. I don't think you should be going into an upper division biology course and be experiencing any of the information for the first time.
To be perfectly honest, the kids (and I am not one of them, I am a 27 year old returning student who has lived and worked in the real world since he was 17) who are in school today are going to be in for a very rude, and in my opinion, very hilarious awakening when they graduate with their degree in 'sociology'.
 
2011-06-17 01:34:28 PM  
The majority of American drivers believe their driving skills are above average.
 
2011-06-17 01:34:50 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Guess what the top 48% of a bell curve is


White?
 
2011-06-17 01:35:22 PM  

Freaky_Sold_Mustard: This. And even in the hard sciences, I find my peers are lazy and just not well educated on the subject matter.


I disagree. My neuroscience classmates were and are among some of the most driven and intelligent people I've met, most far more so than myself. Most of them spend/spent [cuz the first batch of us just graduated] at least half their days working in labs, and then at least a third doing independent research beyond that. Granted, in our school of 50,000 we have/had something like 200 NSI majors, but still, I think you're overly cynical.

Sociology is a retarded major though.
 
2011-06-17 01:35:54 PM  
*sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

www.enterakt.com
 
2011-06-17 01:38:50 PM  
That's lower than other, similar polls I've seen in the past. Apparently some people have moved out of Lake Wobegon (new).

/Also see: Dunning-Kruger (new)
//Of course, *I* am above average
 
2011-06-17 01:39:34 PM  
But my mother spent lots of time telling me I was above average.

She also spent lots of time telling my sister she was below.
 
2011-06-17 01:39:44 PM  

OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!


God, that's cute.
 
2011-06-17 01:40:17 PM  
Everybody knows 90 per cent of the population is smarter than 50 per cent of it.
 
2011-06-17 01:41:15 PM  
What if these interviews were conducted at a homeless shelter or prison? Your claim doesn't hold up there, subby
 
2011-06-17 01:41:30 PM  
48% say they are above average? At least we know who is below average. If those little bastards would crack the books some more, they would learn that wisdom mandates humility. At least 52% of kids still just get down to business and don't like the smell of their own farts.
 
2011-06-17 01:42:12 PM  
These people make me laugh. We have a labor surplus right now and the boomers are making damn sure their seniority protects their positions while paying their retirement.

WTF is an unrealistic wage assumption for a recent grad? 10 bucks an hour??? fark you boomers!
 
2011-06-17 01:42:58 PM  

RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

God, that's cute.


Looking at kittens on the internet is how I make myself feel better about graduating with a useless degree into a job market that wants nothing to do with me. :)
 
2011-06-17 01:43:07 PM  
www-users.math.umd.edu
 
2011-06-17 01:43:38 PM  

Syphilis_Smile: they would learn that wisdom mandates humility


However, wisdom doesn't mandate having a higher GPA. Arrogance is not the opposite of intelligence, no matter how it may seem sometimes.

/GPA obviously doesn't mandate intelligence
 
2011-06-17 01:44:05 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Oh no, people feel good about themselves even if its temporarily misguided. Clearly this generation is a bunch of entitled failures.


Well look at the generation that raised this one! They never earned a God damn thing in their entire lives and had eeeeeverything handed to them in their Leave It To Beaver and Brady Bunch lives.
 
2011-06-17 01:44:25 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Freaky_Sold_Mustard: This. And even in the hard sciences, I find my peers are lazy and just not well educated on the subject matter.

I disagree. My neuroscience classmates were and are among some of the most driven and intelligent people I've met, most far more so than myself. Most of them spend/spent [cuz the first batch of us just graduated] at least half their days working in labs, and then at least a third doing independent research beyond that. Granted, in our school of 50,000 we have/had something like 200 NSI majors, but still, I think you're overly cynical.

Sociology is a retarded major though.


He's referring though to those "scientists" who actually think science is all about pouring stuff in to tubes and mixing things around. Or even worse, that they can be like Steve Irwin and be documentarians traveling the wilds of Africa just telling people about animals. They don't put the time in. And it is definitely my experience that most of my peers in the hard sciences don't realize it is a bunch of physics, chemistry, and hard, intensive biology with stuff in statistics. And there's more than you think, especially since those in the upper echelons of the science majors (namely the juniors and seniors) have realized how difficult the majors are. I have lost several friends to the liberal arts college because they refused to want to study chemistry and physics to study fish... fundamental classes. It's all the same excuses too, that they believe that they don't need to do the math, the teachers are too hard, the subject matter on the tests was never gone over in class. That's what really boils my bubble: those excuses.
 
2011-06-17 01:44:58 PM  

OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

God, that's cute.

Looking at kittens on the internet is how I make myself feel better about graduating with a useless degree into a job market that wants nothing to do with me. :)


Sorry. Graduate school or undergraduate?
 
2011-06-17 01:45:03 PM  
Studies show that 40% of people know that 70% of the population is smarter than the other 50%
 
2011-06-17 01:45:09 PM  
CSB:
In the late '90s I worked at a web-app development company (who didn't) and we had about 6 full-time graphic designers, the youngest of which was 6 months out of college. After working with us for only about 4 months, she came to the head of the company with a demand that she be paid at least $10k more (on top of her $30k right out of school). In that 4 months she had done the most basic design stuff with much grousing and little creativity, learned a little about how design and web tech worked together (she knew designing digitally, but not how it worked with regard to web), and some other things a brand new, shiny designer needs to go further. But not $10k worth at that point. The boss said basically "Hey, you're doing a good job, you'll probably be given the lead designer gig on a project in a few months" (small project for a tight client and everybody else involved being very experienced). She really thought that 4 months was paying her dues, and that she had learned the vagaries of the industry in general and the company in specific, and didn't understand why nobody else thought the same.

She went to work for a competitor and they folded about a year later. We doubled our revenues each year for the next 2 years then got bought out by a company that mismanaged us into oblivion. So who's to say she did the wrong thing in confronting the boss over bucks. But she was tall, thin, and beautiful, so I'm sure she was used to getting what she wanted most of her life.
 
2011-06-17 01:45:23 PM  
Somehow, I can't help but think that if the hard sciences were so damn rewarding, you wouldn't have the same farkers in every thread bragging about how good they are at it and how superior that makes them. It sounds a bit like over compensation, but I'm sure they're unfamiliar with the concept as it can't be measured with a decimal.
 
2011-06-17 01:48:34 PM  

wbudnick: That's what really boils my bubble: those excuses.


That's called shame. I doubt they needed anyone to add any.

gadian: t sounds a bit like over compensation


Lol because overcompensation is an inherently mathematical concept.
 
2011-06-17 01:48:46 PM  
FTFA: "about half of freshmen questioned in 2009 said they were above average, compared to fewer than a third in 1966."

But 49.999..% actually are above average (hint:that's what average means). Sounds like self-assesment is getting more accurate -- and someone is failing at math.
 
2011-06-17 01:51:09 PM  

gadian: Somehow, I can't help but think that if the hard sciences were so damn rewarding, you wouldn't have the same farkers in every thread bragging about how good they are at it and how superior that makes them. It sounds a bit like over compensation, but I'm sure they're unfamiliar with the concept as it can't be measured with a decimal.


I don't come from the hard sciences, I come from computer science. However, STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) people often view their courses of study as being more rigorous than liberal arts or social science majors - almost like a baptism by fire. It's not the course of study that makes them feel superior, it's the fact that they came through a more rigorous field of study that makes them feel superior.
 
2011-06-17 01:51:29 PM  
chu2dogg

These people make me laugh. We have a labor surplus right now and the boomers are making damn sure their seniority protects their positions while paying their retirement.

WTF is an unrealistic wage assumption for a recent grad? 10 bucks an hour??? fark you boomers!"

I'm a boomer (55) and my boss and his boss are younger than me. What keeps me in my job making an OK but not great salary is that I'm the best at what I do. Seniority only matters in a union. I do what it takes to get it done and when it really matters, I put the job above taking that 3 day weekend. It's as farking simple as that.
 
2011-06-17 01:52:29 PM  

RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

God, that's cute.

Looking at kittens on the internet is how I make myself feel better about graduating with a useless degree into a job market that wants nothing to do with me. :)

Sorry. Graduate school or undergraduate?


Undergrad. BS in Psychology. I did two years in a basic research lab and hated it. I have a decent job at $10/hour right now, but no benefits. I'm thinking about getting a job with a bicycle delivery company. It probably pays even worse than this one, but at least I'd be active and happy.
 
2011-06-17 01:54:19 PM  

OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

God, that's cute.

Looking at kittens on the internet is how I make myself feel better about graduating with a useless degree into a job market that wants nothing to do with me. :)

Sorry. Graduate school or undergraduate?

Undergrad. BS in Psychology. I did two years in a basic research lab and hated it. I have a decent job at $10/hour right now, but no benefits. I'm thinking about getting a job with a bicycle delivery company. It probably pays even worse than this one, but at least I'd be active and happy.


Best of luck.
 
2011-06-17 01:54:51 PM  

cavedonkey: /Also see: Dunning-Kruger (new)


Why is that not called the Bush-Palin Effect?
/Just thought this ought to go toward a politics thread.
 
2011-06-17 01:54:52 PM  
I did a four-year degree in Classics with a specialization in Latin. Did Livy, Juvenal, and Suetonius in my final year.

I also just landed a 45k/yr position as an SQA test engineer. But I also did a minor in compsci and ran a web design company on the side.

My degree is a BA though. In Latin.
 
2011-06-17 01:55:39 PM  

OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: RexTalionis: OozoSoozo: *sniff*

This thread smells bitter with just a hint of sad.

LOOK! A KITTEN!

God, that's cute.

Looking at kittens on the internet is how I make myself feel better about graduating with a useless degree into a job market that wants nothing to do with me. :)

Sorry. Graduate school or undergraduate?

Undergrad. BS in Psychology. I did two years in a basic research lab and hated it. I have a decent job at $10/hour right now, but no benefits. I'm thinking about getting a job with a bicycle delivery company. It probably pays even worse than this one, but at least I'd be active and happy.


What lab work did you do? Our psych department shared a lot of staff and equipment with the NSI program, but we're a research school so we had tons of labs. Its not for everyone, I have friends who spent three years ripping out fly organs in the DARK so the DNA wouldn't degrade from exposure to light. That's a shiatty farking job.
 
2011-06-17 01:56:54 PM  

palad: I did a four-year degree in Classics with a specialization in Latin. Did Livy, Juvenal, and Suetonius in my final year.

I also just landed a 45k/yr position as an SQA test engineer. But I also did a minor in compsci and ran a web design company on the side.

My degree is a BA though. In Latin.


My sister got her PhD in Classics from UPenn. Undergrad at Bryn Mawr. One year as an adjunct at Georgetown, is now tutoring snobby rich kids for their SATs. Thank god her partner has a specialized business doctorate and tenure at a good college.
 
2011-06-17 01:57:55 PM  
Spoken like the typical boomer.. failing at life while feeling the need to lecture others. I guess he never learned to STFU.
 
2011-06-17 01:58:22 PM  
raggedshirts.com

/image=hot, please pull finger if it fails
 
2011-06-17 01:59:43 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Syphilis_Smile: they would learn that wisdom mandates humility

However, wisdom doesn't mandate having a higher GPA. Arrogance is not the opposite of intelligence, no matter how it may seem sometimes.

/GPA obviously doesn't mandate intelligence


I actually distrust someone who has a high GPA. Makes me wonder what kind of mindless dullard could go through the daycare routine so consistently. Granted, they could follow a cubicle-farming workload pretty easily, but in my experience they don't seem to be able to respond when something out of the ordinary pops up. They also have some of the worst reading comprehension I've ever seen, so i always have to wonder just how the hell did they get good grades to begin with?

Reminds me of the American History professor who gave me a C because he didn't like my interpretation of the post-war period. One needs to look into political and financial matters when one wants to find the true value of a GPA from any given school.
 
2011-06-17 01:59:54 PM  

PonceAlyosha:
What lab work did you do? Our psych department shared a lot of staff and equipment with the NSI program, but we're a research school so we had tons of labs. Its not for everyone, I have friends who spent three years ripping out fly organs in the DARK so the DNA wouldn't degrade from exposure to light. That's a shiatty farking job.


Research into the properties of visual attention and memory capabilities in an ADHD population. I did clinical interviews and administered visual attention and memory tests, then input and analyzed data. Sooooooo farking boring. I am desperate for a job that involves little to no sitting-behind-a-desk time.
 
2011-06-17 02:02:38 PM  

Syphilis_Smile: I actually distrust someone who has a high GPA. Makes me wonder what kind of mindless dullard could go through the daycare routine so consistently


Wow, what shiatty school did you go to? I mean, obviously there were some required wishy washy classes that I cut a lot of, but in major and things related to it I had nothing but fun.

/had a semester of nothing but 4 high level in major classes, I had a skip in my step every day
 
2011-06-17 02:03:04 PM  
Grab a brew. Don't cost nothin'.
 
2011-06-17 02:03:18 PM  
This is the one thing I love about military fitness reports. I know exactly where I stand in relation to my peers. My reports have data included in them about how my boss rates everyone in my pay grade that he evaluates, and how I stand in comparison to them. It can be a little bit rough on the ego sometimes, but it gives me the warm fuzzy feeling of being able to know my actual merit.
 
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