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(WorldNetDaily)   Birther movement gains momentum again as typeface expert has too much free time on his hands   (wnd.com) divider line 202
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3919 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jun 2011 at 5:42 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-06-13 12:15:35 AM

Aldon: Penman: He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.

To whom are you referring? Obama's birth certificate shows him to be born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, (and he 'claims' the same). So it can't be Obama you are referring too, hmmmm curious.

So is that the standard? You have to claim to not be a natural born citizen in order to be questioned about your citizenship?

/let's see how much the goal posts will move.


Dude. It's Penman. His goalposts are on a conveyor belt.
 
2011-06-13 12:16:18 AM
I think we should carefully analyze all the Republican candidates' birth certificates too.

Oh, wait...
 
2011-06-13 12:16:54 AM

dave2198: You don't have to be a member of the press to file a FOIA request. I submitted one in high school. So why don't you send one in and find out everything you ever wanted to know? Difficulty: Your hoverround may not make it out to your mailbox.


FOIA does not apply to Congress. Difficulty: Actually reading and comprehending the law you cite is apparently too difficult for you. You fail.
 
2011-06-13 12:18:43 AM

Aldon: Penman: He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.

To whom are you referring? Obama's birth certificate shows him to be born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, (and he 'claims' the same). So it can't be Obama you are referring too, hmmmm curious.

So is that the standard? You have to claim to not be a natural born citizen in order to be questioned about your citizenship?

/let's see how much the goal posts will move.


Oh, Christ. Come on! He's trolling. Not even WND is claiming Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961.
 
2011-06-13 12:18:54 AM

Penman: Aldon: Really? Then Bush was an usurper because we never saw his "long form" BS?

He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.


Ruh?
 
2011-06-13 12:20:26 AM

eddiesocket: Not even WND is claiming Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961.


Yet.
 
2011-06-13 12:28:46 AM
Helpful hint: If it would be an arduous process to go through to create the different typefaces, it would also be arduous for a conspirator and document forger, not to mention that any document forger worth his salt wouldn't use materials which weren't supposed to exist when the document was supposed to have been written.

You can't have it both ways. They can't be cold, calculating, evil, and smart, AND be bumbling idiots.
 
2011-06-13 12:31:39 AM

Penman: Aldon: Really? Then Bush was an usurper because we never saw his "long form" BS?

He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.


Neither does Obama.

Hawaii became a state on August 21, 1959. Obama was born in Hawaii, on August 4th, 1961. Almost exactly two years AFTER statehood.

/It must suck to be so stupid that a Canadian knows more than you about American history/politics.
 
2011-06-13 12:37:51 AM

LavenderWolf: Helpful hint: If it would be an arduous process to go through to create the different typefaces, it would also be arduous for a conspirator and document forger, not to mention that any document forger worth his salt wouldn't use materials which weren't supposed to exist when the document was supposed to have been written.

You can't have it both ways. They can't be cold, calculating, evil, and smart, AND be bumbling idiots.


Unless they're ARROGANT.
 
2011-06-13 12:40:46 AM
So what I don't understand is why this "expert" was unable to show other Hawaiian birth certificates from that time period as further evidence of his claims.

If President Obama's certificate has all of these typeface inconsistencies then surely other birth certificates from that era can be shown that do not have those inconsistencies... correct?
 
2011-06-13 12:50:43 AM

BroadbandGremlin: So what I don't understand is why this "expert" was unable to show other Hawaiian birth certificates from that time period as further evidence of his claims.

If President Obama's certificate has all of these typeface inconsistencies then surely other birth certificates from that era can be shown that do not have those inconsistencies... correct?


Wait. You've posted heavily in favor of birther bullshiat in the past. Switching sides in the hopes of gaining credibility?
 
2011-06-13 12:54:08 AM

Satanic_Hamster: BroadbandGremlin: So what I don't understand is why this "expert" was unable to show other Hawaiian birth certificates from that time period as further evidence of his claims.

If President Obama's certificate has all of these typeface inconsistencies then surely other birth certificates from that era can be shown that do not have those inconsistencies... correct?

Wait. You've posted heavily in favor of birther bullshiat in the past. Switching sides in the hopes of gaining credibility?


In the past I posted in favor of President Obama releasing his birth certificate. Now that he has done that it would take substantial evidence for me to believe that he is not a natural born citizen.

If you Google my past posts you'll see that I always assumed he was a U.S. citizen but I found it strange that he had not released the live birth certificate. Apparently Trump was the catalyst necessary to make that happen. One of the few good things the man's political presence did for politics.
 
2011-06-13 01:00:26 AM

BroadbandGremlin: I found it strange that he had not released the live birth certificate


He released his birth certificate in 2008. The only thing I find strange is that he ever had to, much less release another form of it 3 years later.
 
2011-06-13 01:04:58 AM

eddiesocket: Aldon: Penman: He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.

To whom are you referring? Obama's birth certificate shows him to be born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, (and he 'claims' the same). So it can't be Obama you are referring too, hmmmm curious.

So is that the standard? You have to claim to not be a natural born citizen in order to be questioned about your citizenship?

/let's see how much the goal posts will move.

Oh, Christ. Come on! He's trolling. Not even WND is claiming Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961.



Yeah, it was like the 57th State admitted to the union, right?


LavenderWolf: Helpful hint: If it would be an arduous process to go through to create the different typefaces, it would also be arduous for a conspirator and document forger, not to mention that any document forger worth his salt wouldn't use materials which weren't supposed to exist when the document was supposed to have been written.

You can't have it both ways. They can't be cold, calculating, evil, and smart, AND be bumbling idiots.



Worked for the Nazis. Amirite?
 
2011-06-13 01:19:05 AM

Farker T: eddiesocket: Aldon: Penman: He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.

To whom are you referring? Obama's birth certificate shows him to be born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, (and he 'claims' the same). So it can't be Obama you are referring too, hmmmm curious.

So is that the standard? You have to claim to not be a natural born citizen in order to be questioned about your citizenship?

/let's see how much the goal posts will move.

Oh, Christ. Come on! He's trolling. Not even WND is claiming Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961.


Yeah, it was like the 57th State admitted to the union, right?


LavenderWolf: Helpful hint: If it would be an arduous process to go through to create the different typefaces, it would also be arduous for a conspirator and document forger, not to mention that any document forger worth his salt wouldn't use materials which weren't supposed to exist when the document was supposed to have been written.

You can't have it both ways. They can't be cold, calculating, evil, and smart, AND be bumbling idiots.


Worked for the Nazis. Amirite?


They weren't bumbling idiots, though. The Nazi regime was full of brilliant minds and some of the best soldiers of the time. The only bumbling idiocy was Hitler's micromanagement and his entry into Russia. If Hitler didn't micromanage his defenses like he did, and if he didn't piss on a sleeping bear like he did, we would be having this conversation in German. Say what you will about the actions, and their motivations, it's still mind-bogglingly impressive that they did things on such a scale and with such gusto and innovation.
 
2011-06-13 01:28:51 AM

whidbey: machoprogrammer: Woo, 50th greenlight.

You really want a cockpunch that bad, don't you?


Really...shouldn't that shiat result in a Boobies? It's way more annoying than Boobies.
 
2011-06-13 01:30:52 AM
LOL....filter pwned, even using l33+. I has a sad.

/sad
 
2011-06-13 01:35:45 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: monsatano: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: PC LOAD LETTER: These people are the typeface equivalent of the "engineers" who think 9/11 was a controlled demolition.

Building 7 certainly was.

0/10

You know the "#/10" thing is usually reserved for trolling attempts, right? And not people who may hold different opinions than you? Oh, that's right, this is Fark, where having a differing opinion is trolling! How could I forget.

10/10


It's not a matter of opinion.
 
2011-06-13 01:45:08 AM

LavenderWolf: Farker T: eddiesocket: Aldon: Penman: He doesn't claim to be born in an area that wasn't even part of the US at the time.

To whom are you referring? Obama's birth certificate shows him to be born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, (and he 'claims' the same). So it can't be Obama you are referring too, hmmmm curious.

So is that the standard? You have to claim to not be a natural born citizen in order to be questioned about your citizenship?

/let's see how much the goal posts will move.

Oh, Christ. Come on! He's trolling. Not even WND is claiming Hawaii wasn't a state in 1961.


Yeah, it was like the 57th State admitted to the union, right?


LavenderWolf: Helpful hint: If it would be an arduous process to go through to create the different typefaces, it would also be arduous for a conspirator and document forger, not to mention that any document forger worth his salt wouldn't use materials which weren't supposed to exist when the document was supposed to have been written.

You can't have it both ways. They can't be cold, calculating, evil, and smart, AND be bumbling idiots.


Worked for the Nazis. Amirite?

They weren't bumbling idiots, though. The Nazi regime was full of brilliant minds and some of the best soldiers of the time. The only bumbling idiocy was Hitler's micromanagement and his entry into Russia. If Hitler didn't micromanage his defenses like he did, and if he didn't piss on a sleeping bear like he did, we would be having this conversation in German. Say what you will about the actions, and their motivations, it's still mind-bogglingly impressive that they did things on such a scale and with such gusto and innovation.


Some people's only exposure to the history of WW2 is seeing reruns of Hogan's Heroes on late night tv. So of course they think all nazis were bumbling fools.
 
2011-06-13 02:34:47 AM
Not to sound like *them* but--

Why do I have to show my birth certificate to prove my residency, to get a passport, to apply for federal or state benefits, etc...

...and some wealthy politician prick can simply waltz into one of the highest offices in the world without producing documentation of his origin? Why is the demand for such on us and not him? I suppose some really are "more equal" then others, eh?

Now, I'm not one those people demanding proof of his eligibility to be commander-in-chief, but it is absolute hypocritical bull shiat in this regard.
 
2011-06-13 02:36:43 AM

This poster says: Not to sound like *them* but--

Why do I have to show my birth certificate to prove my residency, to get a passport, to apply for federal or state benefits, etc...

...and some wealthy politician prick can simply waltz into one of the highest offices in the world without producing documentation of his origin? Why is the demand for such on us and not him? I suppose some really are "more equal" then others, eh?

Now, I'm not one those people demanding proof of his eligibility to be commander-in-chief, but it is absolute hypocritical bull shiat in this regard.


He proved it, moron. Damn. Move on.
 
2011-06-13 02:38:56 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Wait. You've posted heavily in favor of birther bullshiat in the past. Switching sides in the hopes of gaining credibility?


He's a troll; he's going to take any position from which he can piss people off (though based on his frequent changes position mid-thread, I'm pretty sure he's "Phil").
 
2011-06-13 02:46:44 AM

This poster says: Not to sound like *them* but--

Why do I have to show my birth certificate to prove my residency, to get a passport, to apply for federal or state benefits, etc...

...and some wealthy politician prick can simply waltz into one of the highest offices in the world without producing documentation of his origin? Why is the demand for such on us and not him? I suppose some really are "more equal" then others, eh?

Now, I'm not one those people demanding proof of his eligibility to be commander-in-chief, but it is absolute hypocritical bull shiat in this regard.


He did produce documentation... just not to you. Just like when I apply for a passport, I produce documentation... just not to you.
 
2011-06-13 03:02:19 AM

This poster says: ...and some wealthy politician prick can simply waltz into one of the highest offices in the world without producing documentation of his origin? Why is the demand for such on us and not him? I suppose some really are "more equal" then others, eh?


Not sure what the hell you're talking about. To get on the ballots for the Presidential election, he would have proved to the State Secretaries of State that he was eligible by sending them certified copies of his birth certificate. He made another copy available to the press (the copy which can be seen at Factcheck.org) once questions were raised about where he was born.

He satisfied all legal requirements. He satisfied the press. It's only the 23% percenters like yourself who weren't satisfied.
 
2011-06-13 03:11:51 AM
Not to sound like *them* but--

...waltz into one of the highest offices in the world without producing documentation of his origin?


YOU DO SOUND LIKE *THEM*!!


This poster says *plonk*, you disingenuous hypocrite.
 
2011-06-13 04:24:40 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Born to Die: Building 7 is still very much standing.

*clap clap clap*

Betcha not too many people here get that, even with the picture.


lol

+1
 
2011-06-13 04:49:01 AM

Farker T: Yeah, it was like the 57th State admitted to the union, right?


I love the "57 states" thing.

Obama misspoke once, saying 57 states instead of 57 primaries, and the right thinks that equivocates to Bush's constant idiotic blunders. Such wishful thinking on their part.
 
2011-06-13 05:27:37 AM

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: namatad: better yet, if obama's being born overseas excluded him from being a "natural born" citizen but still be a us citizen (which is even more batshiat, but go with me), then mccain's being born in panama excludes him from being a "natural born" citizen also.

therefore, neither men were eligble for election, bwhahahahahahahaha

/god I love birfer tards

Overseas military bases are considered to be on U.S. soil, einstein.


*BZZZZT!!* Wrong! Only embassies and consulates are considered "American Soil". Military bases are leased from the countries they are located in.
 
2011-06-13 06:41:46 AM

farkityfarker: Obama misspoke once, saying 57 states instead of 57 primaries, and the right thinks that equivocates to Bush's constant idiotic blunders. Such wishful thinking on their part.


Actually he had said he had traveled to 57 states... Republicans were just willfully ignoring the fact that you can visit states more than once.
 
2011-06-13 07:02:52 AM

JohnnyC: farkityfarker: Obama misspoke once, saying 57 states instead of 57 primaries, and the right thinks that equivocates to Bush's constant idiotic blunders. Such wishful thinking on their part.

Actually he had said he had traveled to 57 states... Republicans were just willfully ignoring the fact that you can visit states more than once.


Actually he said 57 states, but meant 47, because he was talking about the states he visited and there were some he wasn't visiting, and said so in words. That's a far cry from, say, thinking that Paul Revere was warning the British.
 
2011-06-13 07:35:15 AM
I guess I'm going to have to drag this out again!

www.rense.com

Farking morons.
 
2011-06-13 09:12:23 AM
It's obvious. Fartbongo used a Morpeth Jetsan avatar to travel back to 1960s Hawaii from his home in New New Nairobi, capital of the Great and Glorious Kenyan Republic, using his time machine.

www.strangecosmos.com

By the way, this seems appropriate...

www.smbc-comics.com
 
2011-06-13 09:13:07 AM

LavenderWolf: They weren't bumbling idiots, though. The Nazi regime was full of brilliant minds and some of the best soldiers of the time. The only bumbling idiocy was Hitler's micromanagement and his entry into Russia. If Hitler didn't micromanage his defenses like he did, and if he didn't piss on a sleeping bear like he did, we would be having this conversation in German. Say what you will about the actions, and their motivations, it's still mind-bogglingly impressive that they did things on such a scale and with such gusto and innovation.


The Nazis weren't particularly organized or brilliant. The German people certainly were, but the Nazi party command actually worked against itself most of the time.
 
2011-06-13 09:14:00 AM

JohnnyC: farkityfarker: Obama misspoke once, saying 57 states instead of 57 primaries, and the right thinks that equivocates to Bush's constant idiotic blunders. Such wishful thinking on their part.

Actually he had said he had traveled to 57 states... Republicans were just willfully ignoring the fact that you can visit states more than once.


Actually, what he said was that he had traveled to "fifty......seven states with one more." He had, in fact, traveled to FORTY seven states with one more to go in the continental US. So, he went to say "fifty states" realized that he had only traveled to all but one of the continental states and went to change it but missed changing the fifty to forty.

See: http://snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp
 
2011-06-13 09:16:48 AM

Somacandra: Apparently some "investigator" got ahold of the President's SSN and ran some sort of "check" demonstrating that Harrison J. Bounel (who apparently has the "same number") lived at the same address 3 years later than President Soetero did. Therefore they are the same person. Furthermore, as you can plainly see, Bounel's gender is marked as "U," meaning "Universal"--so the President is actually a hermaphrodite disguised as male, which explains his "metrosexuality," as well as his secret origins from the mythic state of "Connecticut," a euphemism coded in H.P. Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled" as being one of several monikers for the lost continent of Atlantis.


So Lady Gaga is the president?
 
2011-06-13 09:29:43 AM
I never once cared about Obama's birth, but what if this guy's analysis is right? If he put in 50 years in the field he probably has a resume that supports his expertise. Are any of us experts with comparable skill who are in a position to contradict his analysis?

Not that I am a birther.

I'm just saying.
 
2011-06-13 09:31:11 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Actually he said 57 states, but meant 47, because he was talking about the states he visited and there were some he wasn't visiting, and said so in words. That's a far cry from, say, thinking that Paul Revere was warning the British.


Have you noticed how the [f]right[ened] wing use one example, repeatedly, to counter what people can say about them on multiple issues?

The mysterious financer of 'radical madrassas' and the 'Ground Zero mosque' is the second-largest shareholder in Fox News? Bill Ayers blew up a statue in Chicago in 1969 and Obama met him, possibly twice!

Mark D. Siljander (R-Mich.) was convicted of obstruction of justice and acting as an unregistered foreign agent related to his work for an Islamic charity with ties to international terrorism? Bill Ayers blew up a statue in Chicago in 1969 and Obama met him, possibly twice!

The Fellowship Foundation, also known as "The Family", figured prominently in both Gov. Mark Sanford's and Sen. John Ensign's scandals? Bill Ayers blew up a statue in Chicago in 1969 and Obama met him, possibly twice!

Republican-oriented lobbying firm, Barbour, Griffith & Rogers (BGR), worked on behalf of Qatar, as well as Al-Jazeera, and yes the "Barbour" in BGR is Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour? Bill Ayers blew up a statue in Chicago in 1969 and Obama met him, possibly twice!

Peter King, the Republican who seized the national spotlight with a hearing on the radicalization of American Muslims, was a fervent supporter of the Irish Republican Army terrorist group responsible for killing civilians? Bill Ayers blew up a statue in Chicago in 1969 and Obama met him, possibly twice!

/Real ties of real adult Republican politicians to terrorist groups with real blood on their hands == the other guy met someone that blew up a statue when that other guy was 8 years old? This is what Freepers actually believe.
 
2011-06-13 09:35:56 AM

xkillyourfacex: I never once cared about Obama's birth, but what if this guy's analysis is right? If he put in 50 years in the field he probably has a resume that supports his expertise. Are any of us experts with comparable skill who are in a position to contradict his analysis?

Not that I am a birther.

I'm just saying.


What if his analysis was done with the assistance of a unicorn? If a unicorn was used in this, and the guy has fifty years experience in the field so he'd know if the unicorn's input was also worthy, it would shatter the studies of equine evolution going all the way back to the Hyracotherium some 55 million years ago. Who are we to doubt in the existance of unicorns.

Not that I'm a concern troll.

I'm just saying.
 
2011-06-13 10:38:01 AM

namatad: actualhuman: So, is it just me or would you have to have never seen anything produced by a typewriter to interpret those 'variations' as anything other then different degrees of ink saturation?

forget that the ribbon might have crap (bits of paper and crud) on it from having been reversed and used multiple times? (does ANYONE else remember doing this?)

that being said, the capital "A"s having different angles is a different story ..

CLEARLY this guy is a democratic PLANT to cause problems for the Teahadists and GOPtards so that they will lose the election to king obama the 3rd


I also notice a distinct lack of a copy of a similar document from the same time, evaluated in the same way. The guy should have no trouble proving that EVERY birth certificate from Hawaii from 1959 through 1963 is a forgery.
 
2011-06-13 10:41:41 AM
It's at least plausible, and I'd say likely, that the hospital would pre-fill fields that weren't going to change.

Since it's a typed document, they must be suggesting that it was typed on a few dozen different typewriters, when it would be far simpler to get ahold of an old selectric and type it all on the same one. Building a photoshopped composite would be utterly obvious, since a modern printer doesn't etch the paper the same way as a typewriter. Anyone with a slight degree of competency would notice on inspecting the physical document.
 
2011-06-13 11:26:09 AM
It would be easy enough to prove by checking someone else's Hawaii colb and seeing if it has the same problems. Now that we know the things do exist and any Hawaiian can get their original, just find another Hawaiian born in 61 and you'll have your answer.
 
2011-06-13 11:28:39 AM

Noam Chimpsky: It would be easy enough to prove by checking someone else's Hawaii colb and seeing if it has the same problems. Now that we know the things do exist and any Hawaiian can get their original, just find another Hawaiian born in 61 and you'll have your answer.


How about that lady's certificate they kept showing when they were going on about the numbers?
 
2011-06-13 11:37:33 AM

Epicedion: It's at least plausible, and I'd say likely, that the hospital would pre-fill fields that weren't going to change.

Since it's a typed document, they must be suggesting that it was typed on a few dozen different typewriters, when it would be far simpler to get ahold of an old selectric and type it all on the same one. Building a photoshopped composite would be utterly obvious, since a modern printer doesn't etch the paper the same way as a typewriter. Anyone with a slight degree of competency would notice on inspecting the physical document.


The whole issue is stupid anyways and any one who takes it seriously, is mentally deficient. I arguably an idiot myself just for posting here.
 
2011-06-13 11:41:07 AM
Farker T comments on 9/11 and doesn't blame the Mossad?

I am disappoint.
 
2011-06-13 11:48:51 AM
That "special one-day offer" is still available - just like last week!

SPECIAL ONE-DAY OFFER: GET "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE" FOR ONLY $4.95! OFFER ENDS TONIGHT AT 10 P.M. AND IS VALID IN THE U.S. ONLY.

And yes, it still automatically bills you for a magazine subscription if you don't cancel, which is bad enough with a normal subscription price, let alone a $40 one.

Important: For this very special $4.95 offer, you will receive "Where's the Birth Certificate" as well as three free issues of Whistleblower magazine. Also included with your free issues will be a renewal notice for a one-year Whistleblower subscription. If you wish to renew, do nothing, and your credit or debit card will be charged the discounted annual renewal rate of only $39.95. (There's no risk, because at any time you can cancel your subscription for a full refund on the unused portion.) If you don't want to renew, simply cancel by calling 1-800-4WNDCOM (800-496-3266) or by emailing cance­ltr­ia­l­-­W­B[nospam-﹫-backwards]dnw*c­o­m before the charge date printed on the renewal card you'll receive. Either way, the book and the 3 free issues are yours to keep. (Only one copy of "Where's the Birth Certificate" at this price per household. Offer good with credit card purchase only, and only in the U.S.)

Pretty good idea - their target audience is full of people who will forget to cancel or aren't very good with that electronic interweb.

A couple of magazine reviews from their subscription page:

Name: CHARLES HAMILTON
Review Date: 1/3/2011 2:47 pm
Customer Rating: 5

light grey on white??? plese increse contrast!!!!
Not sure why I am still receiving two subscriptions but the Soros issue is fantastic. Keep it coming but PLEASE, do away with non primary colors for text!!! The Santa Fe pallette is just not legible to most of your base who are in their 60s or older...

Name: William Beckman
Review Date: 12/24/2010 9:00 am
Customer Rating: 5

Review
I must apologize since as on old-timer with 'challenged' eyesight, I could not read the light blue font on white page. I'm sure it was as excellent as I have found your Whisleblower magazine, but I just couldn't read it. The issue on Soros is beyond being excellent! It provides a picture of a Hitler with a bank book, instead of a pistol.

Perhaps someone will have to decide whether the layout should be pretty or readable?
 
2011-06-13 12:03:33 PM
The president is still black, I see. That must be tough for the "conservatives".
 
2011-06-13 01:02:20 PM
hellkid5.webs.com
 
2011-06-13 01:13:55 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Pretty good idea - their target audience is full of people who will forget to cancel or aren't very good with that electronic interweb.

A couple of magazine reviews from their subscription page:


Huh. Almost like they're afraid of writing in black for some reason.
 
2011-06-13 01:56:50 PM
So the Birthers are still bigots. What a shock.
 
2011-06-13 03:13:33 PM

This poster says: Not to sound like *them* but--


hahahahahahahaha
 
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