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(Politico)   "Whenever we hear a call for XX miles per gallon by 2025, we repeat the mantra 'let the process work!'" The process would have left you bankrupt, toots   (politico.com) divider line 359
    More: Stupid, AP Photo Close, House Speaker John Boehner, mantras, emission standard, Energy and Commerce Committee, punching power, model year, fuel economy  
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15306 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2011 at 12:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-06-03 01:16:26 PM

studebaker hoch: JesseL

You can buy a 64MPG vehicle that seats four for around $7000 in the US right now. It looks like this:

That rail costs more than $7000 and does not get 64 mpg.


You probably think it's a VW powered rail, don't you? It's not.

http://gokartsusa.com/viper1100cc4seaterefiallterraindunebuggycalifornialegal. as px
 
2011-06-03 01:16:31 PM

cbackous: Splinshints: cbackous: everytime i see someone on a bike, or in a hybrid, I rev my V8 and drive faster.

No, you don't.

And you don't sound clever saying you do, you sound like you're five years old.

the hell I dont. I also live in Texas, so dont come across bikes and hybrids too often. My car actually gets pretty good MPG considering (18/30 on average)


That you think 18 mpg is good is pathetic.
 
2011-06-03 01:16:59 PM
Lest we all forget the 1973 Saudi Oil Crisis that led to this guy: Link (new window)

I just hate how the oil companies and the car companies love each other so much they are willing to buy every gas mileage patent they can get their hands on, and shelf them. We should have been clearing 100 mpg decades ago.
 
2011-06-03 01:16:59 PM

alabasterblack: serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?

Ride that 160 kilometres a day in a region with no effective rail or bus service do you?


Obviously a bicycle isn't a viable option for everyone. If you live within 5 miles of work though, your excuses tend to wear out.
 
2011-06-03 01:17:27 PM

serial_crusher: big pig peaches: Unfortunately most of the US do not have jobs within biking distance.

Just a suggestion. I don't see that many people carpooling or taking advantage of public transportation where it is available.

And usually "not within bike/carpool/bus distance" really just means you can't avail that option without some slight discomfort. It's so hard to have to transfer between two buses, or spend a few extra minutes picking up your carpool friends.

Fact is, for the majority of Americans, driving just yourself in a vehicle that's designed for 4 or more people is a luxury, not a right. It's fine if you want to spend your money on a luxury, but I don't see why the government should be expected to subsidize or regulate the price of luxuries.

Have you guys seen the price of caviar lately? We've got to do something about that!


Carpooling is one of the easiest answers. Currently, the Chicago area averages 1.1 people per car on the freeways for the peak commuting hours. If everyone road with just 1 passenger there would be almost half the number of cars on the road -- and no congestion.
 
2011-06-03 01:17:59 PM

Muta: Kuroshin: Only 45mpg, but infinitely better/cooler/hotter than yours.

And it's got a pillion seat! You can actually pick up chicks with it!

This gets 80-90 mpg and is cooler than that thing you post AND will get you laid.


Yeah, but you wake up with Hipster Ariel.
 
2011-06-03 01:18:18 PM
You people are retarded.

Do any of you even know how CAFE fleet requirements work?

The Volt is classified as a 100mpg vehicle and a Cobalt might be at 33mpg. If you sell 10,000 Volts and 10,000 Cobalts your CAFE fleet average would be 66mpg. This is not complicated people. Plug-ins will allow easy compliance with CAFE standards, that is why the Obama administration wants to up the standards.
 
2011-06-03 01:18:21 PM
I think the government should choose which car is best for every American.
 
2011-06-03 01:18:38 PM

Nightsweat: cbackous: Splinshints: cbackous: everytime i see someone on a bike, or in a hybrid, I rev my V8 and drive faster.

No, you don't.

And you don't sound clever saying you do, you sound like you're five years old.

the hell I dont. I also live in Texas, so dont come across bikes and hybrids too often. My car actually gets pretty good MPG considering (18/30 on average)

That you think 18 mpg is good is pathetic.


CONSIDERING its a 2004 corvette and i like to have fun, yes it is pretty good.
 
2011-06-03 01:19:18 PM

Aar1012: Shaggy_C: what consumers actually want.

A giant SUV that gets 3 miles per gallon as opposed to two?


gallery.roadbikereview.com
 
2011-06-03 01:20:01 PM

Kuroshin: Oh, and this:


...because American-made cars NEVER Catch fire!
 
2011-06-03 01:21:20 PM

snocone: I'm willing to devote taxes to the construction of a realistic public transportation system so you would not need said sub-compact death trap.


I'd go for that, except that the public transportation is run so poorly now, the price tag would be ridiculous.
For the record I am not totally opposed to mileage requirements and I often bike 20 miles on the weekend, it's just not practical on a daily basis

Telecommuting is the best option but my company isn't totally on board with that yet, unless it's the weekend, then they don't mind if you work from home.
 
2011-06-03 01:21:32 PM

Muta: This gets 80-90 mpg and is cooler than that thing you post AND will get you laid.


This is how my wife rolls:
a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net

It's actually a great way to get around, and with a 150cc 2-stroke, surprisingly powerful. It's not that hard to pop a wheelie and it'll do 70 mph with two people (which is a scary prospect with those small tires). Although that 2-stroke engine does it's own terrible things to the environment . . .
 
2011-06-03 01:22:00 PM

immrlizard: Saiga410: You cannot mandate scietific progress. The last increase was doable but a doubling down again... aint going to happen

The technology is already there for that kind of MPG. The car manufacturers don't want to go that route because they make their money in luxury and suv sales. I had a car in the 80s that got 50 mpg. If they could do it then they can do it now. I like the idea of a gas tax instead. That would do more, but if you did both it would be even better.


Back in the 70's, I drove a 1967 Volvo 122S. 1800cc gas engine w/ twin side draft Webers. Not an electronic part on the entire car. 27MPG. Did 100mph all day(in 55 land even), stopped on a dime, and handled like a slot car. No power anything, did not need it. Everything could be repaired in your driveway. In 274,000 miles, never stranded away from home.
Progress has been to the rear ever since.
 
2011-06-03 01:23:04 PM

Kuroshin: limeyfellow: I guess we could take lessons from India. They introduce 60mpg cars for $7000 and don't seem to have much of a problem.

Of course it means not driving a tank everywhere and that would make people cry.

There's a reason those cars can hit that many MPG: they don't meet US safety and emissions regs.

Strap on the EGR and catalyst gear, then dip the entire frame in a couple extra mils of steel and you'll come closer to what a US-spec Nano would run. You'd nearly double the weight and increase the cost by several grand. Expect closer to 40mpg. Still not bad, but nowhere near as good.


India is a stretch, but European safety standards are higher than US standards, yet still cars are more fuel efficient.
 
2011-06-03 01:23:10 PM
The government is socialism. It should go away. Except for the military, which should be as huge and kick-ass as possible. But not paid for by taxes. Those are also socialism. Go anarchy freedom!
 
2011-06-03 01:23:53 PM

Muta: This gets 80-90 mpg and is cooler than that thing you post AND will get you laid.


Laid by whom? I know Farkers are generally pretty liberal, but I dunno how many would be willing to switch teams in the name of fuel economy.
 
2011-06-03 01:25:49 PM
I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because of a call for 20 MPG?

Stick to roman numerals in the car names, BTW
 
2011-06-03 01:26:18 PM

madgonad: You people are retarded.

Do any of you even know how CAFE fleet requirements work?

The Volt is classified as a 100mpg vehicle and a Cobalt might be at 33mpg. If you sell 10,000 Volts and 10,000 Cobalts your CAFE fleet average would be 66mpg. This is not complicated people. Plug-ins will allow easy compliance with CAFE standards, that is why the Obama administration wants to up the standards.


So Chevy will only sell Cobalts and Volts?
 
2011-06-03 01:26:49 PM
What a high-mpg American car done right mike look like:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-06-03 01:26:59 PM

cbackous: CONSIDERING its a 2004 corvette and i like to have fun, yes it is pretty good.


Honestly I don't see how any wage-earner can have fun in a Corvette. I'd get nervous if so much as a bird flew overhead.

I hate to say it, but the most fun I had with a car was a secondhand '96 Civic. Why? Because I was trying to destroy the thing. I did shiat to that car that no sports car owner would ever think of. Toward the end my hate for it turned into grudging respect because the damn thing just wouldn't die.
 
2011-06-03 01:27:06 PM
jshine 2011-06-03 01:23:10 PM

The government is socialism. It should go away. Except for the military, which should be as huge and kick-ass as possible. But not paid for by taxes. Those are also socialism. Go anarchy freedom!




Wrong! The corporations are to blame for everything! Them and the Nazi/Republicans. They are all evil and corporationy. If we can just get the right politicians in office, the right laws will be enacted to stop all the bad things. Get out and vote!!!
 
2011-06-03 01:28:16 PM
"The process" did work... All the SUVs have basically gone away and now everyone wants little gas sippers. What's the problem?

Everyone wants better mileage, but they aren't going to pay X amount more for a vehicle if that X amount is more than the cost of the gas they would use otherwise.

Some people need trucks... some people don't. SmartCars work for some people in urban or small suburban areas, but they aren't practical in other areas.

I'm tired of people on all sides trying to impose their prejudice on everyone else.
 
2011-06-03 01:28:24 PM

Kuroshin: /Norway, and indeed all Scandinavian countries require a shiatload of training before you get a license


Top Gear talked about that and I was amazed at how much training they get. From what I saw it looked like it would've been a blast being a kid in Norway and trying to get your license with the shiat they have to learn.
 
2011-06-03 01:29:09 PM

serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?


The only people who are fit enough to bike the average commute to work in America will be doing so in France next month.

/And they still need to dope non-stop to do it.
 
2011-06-03 01:29:17 PM

Saiga410: madgonad: You people are retarded.

Do any of you even know how CAFE fleet requirements work?

The Volt is classified as a 100mpg vehicle and a Cobalt might be at 33mpg. If you sell 10,000 Volts and 10,000 Cobalts your CAFE fleet average would be 66mpg. This is not complicated people. Plug-ins will allow easy compliance with CAFE standards, that is why the Obama administration wants to up the standards.

So Chevy will only sell Cobalts and Volts?


Plugins burn COAL!
Same problem, different profit center.
Still burning finite carbon fuel.
 
2011-06-03 01:29:33 PM
Funny, 66 MPG forty years ago didn't seem to be a problem.

Link (new window)

/the little su-BAR-u
//wow
 
2011-06-03 01:30:17 PM
I wonder what her response would be if someone were to tell her that the European Unions laws require 39 mpg already, and all the manufacturers have already adhered to it.



Stupid Coont.
 
2011-06-03 01:30:24 PM

moof: India is a stretch, but European safety standards are higher than US standards, yet still cars are more fuel efficient.


Not really, they're just measured and tested differently. A new Prius, tested to the EPA standards gets 50mpg. Using the same car in the Euro standard gets 76 mpg (imperial).
 
2011-06-03 01:30:38 PM

limeyfellow: I guess we could take lessons from India. They introduce 60mpg cars for $7000 and don't seem to have much of a problem.

Of course it means not driving a tank everywhere and that would make people cry.


Well, not cry. But be a little bit more paranoid about other drivers.

There are several reasons I still drive a 1996 Ford F-250. First, it is the last year with wind wings; I love wind wings. Second, it's just a sweet, sweet truck which just keeps running; 15 years without major repairs (other than the normal stuff). Third, it's usually the same size as or bigger than every other thing on the road; I simply feel a lot safer in it.

And that last is, I think, the main reason a lot of Americans like big cars: the safety issue. Has nothing to do with penis size whatsoever (mine is just fine, thank you - except that I need lots of room under the steering wheel to fit it). The people that harp, on this little insult probably all have small pricks themselves, which fits with my general theory of human nature.
 
2011-06-03 01:31:05 PM

skylabdown: "The process" did work... All the SUVs have basically gone away and now everyone wants little gas sippers.


Know how I know you don't live in a flyover state?
 
2011-06-03 01:31:20 PM
Klein Bikes



Or BMW - the ultimate driving machine

img2.netcarshow.com
 
2011-06-03 01:31:28 PM

serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?


You guys are going to shiat yourselves when you learn what kind of fuel is used to ship your food to you.

I'm not sure exactly where climate hysteria is right now, but cycling certainly uses more gallons of fuel per mile traveled, and releases much more CO2 into the air.
 
2011-06-03 01:31:34 PM

doubled99: jshine 2011-06-03 01:23:10 PM

The government is socialism. It should go away. Except for the military, which should be as huge and kick-ass as possible. But not paid for by taxes. Those are also socialism. Go anarchy freedom!



Wrong! The corporations are to blame for everything! Them and the Nazi/Republicans. They are all evil and corporationy. If we can just get the right politicians in office, the right laws will be enacted to stop all the bad things. Get out and vote!!!


--------------------------------------------

Yeah! Me like say this about that,
blogs.riverfronttimes.com
 
2011-06-03 01:31:49 PM

snocone: Plugins burn COAL!
Same problem, different profit center.
Still burning finite carbon fuel.


You're secretly an Infinity dealer, aren't you?
 
2011-06-03 01:32:58 PM

MrSteve007: Muta: This gets 80-90 mpg and is cooler than that thing you post AND will get you laid.

This is how my wife rolls:


It's actually a great way to get around, and with a 150cc 2-stroke, surprisingly powerful. It's not that hard to pop a wheelie and it'll do 70 mph with two people (which is a scary prospect with those small tires). Although that 2-stroke engine does it's own terrible things to the environment . . .


I'd hit that.
 
2011-06-03 01:33:17 PM

Shaggy_C: Why bother with the standards? When peak oil hits, people will naturally gravitate towards the more efficient models. If anything, the CAFE standards are artificially low compared to what consumers actually want.


1. Peak oil has already hit. Why do you think the Saudi's are investing in offshore drilling tech?

2. People can only gravitate to other more efficient models if those models exist and infrastructure is in place. We aren't anywhere near ready for that transition and that means it will have grave economic consequences as a result.
 
2011-06-03 01:33:58 PM
How about this: All passenger vehicles must be electric by 2020. Why not? Oh that's right, cause the big 3 will kill anyone who purposes such an idea. Hold on someone is at the door...
 
2011-06-03 01:34:29 PM

Ella_Minnowpee: serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?

Hear! Hear!

/bicyclist
//fitter
///happier
////more productive
//not drinking too much
//still kisses with saliva


ftfy
 
2011-06-03 01:35:38 PM

the_immoral_minority: Klein Bikes



Or BMW - the ultimate driving machine


The BMW i3 is coming:

indiaoncars.com
 
2011-06-03 01:35:43 PM

madgonad: The Volt is classified as a 100mpg vehicle and a Cobalt might be at 33mpg. If you sell 10,000 Volts and 10,000 Cobalts your CAFE fleet average would be 66mpg. This is not complicated people.


Actually, it's more complicated than that.

6.10. CORPORATE AVERAGE FUEL ECONOMY (CAFE) STANDARDS (new window)
Corporate average fuel economy and compliance with the CAFE standard is determined as the harmonic mean of the fuel economy of automobiles produced by each manufacturer. The harmonic mean is computed as the mean obtained by taking the reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the reciprocals. Harmonic average fuel economy is more difficult to achieve than is simple averaging. For example, to achieve a CAFE standard of 27.5 mpg, two 35-mpg vehicles must be sold for every 20-mpg vehicle sold.

So, automakers will probably get more bang for their buck if they improve the mileage on the guzzlers.
 
2011-06-03 01:36:01 PM

Saiga410: Now he's back for more, with plans that could raise standards for cars and light-duty trucks as high as 62 mpg by 2025.


Lol WUT. You cannot mandate scietific progress. The last increase was doable but a doubling down again... aint going to happen.


THIS. If there's even any progress to be had.

There basic elements here:
Engines would have to be "different". There is no magic wand to waive and make a piston engine do much better. Yes an engine wastes some 75%-80% of the gasoline's energy as heat, but there are thermodynamic constraints on how much work output can be had from a unit of fuel, and much greater real-world limitations still.

In fact engine efficiency is NOT wildly greater between the remarkably fuel-efficient and "typical", for example, the Prius has a remarkably low drag coefficient which is where most of its mpg gains comes from.

Aerodynamic drag is a primary load here. Trucks COULD, in theory, be made all egg-shaped like the Aptera concept car for much better mpg, but there's no equivalence because there is no apparent truck utility in an egg-shaped truck!

The low-drag waterdrop shape is just problematic even for passenger vehicles. It has much less usable interior space when limited to the size of a typical square parking space, which is pretty much a hard limit. It's a fact- the square footprint occupies the area of the corners, the droplet-shape does not. One could conceive of difficulties in the fact that the rear trunk space is all narrow and pointy, and in a 3-wheel design may be unable to hold weight without dangerously affecting handling, making this vehicle useless for many things, but how this would play out is speculative.

We COULD make a longer and wider vehicle to restore the interior volume, but nobody wants to drive a car that can't fit into a parking space, or even try to navigate the neighborhood in a super-long or super-wide vehicle.

The capacity's just not going to suit a truck that I can see. Perhaps I'm just not forward-thinking on this but seriously how are you going to gain this much mpg without going with radical body designs, and how would you make a radical body design fit the duty of a truck??
 
2011-06-03 01:36:12 PM
Hell, why stop at 62 mpg? Why not just mandate 250mpg and save us so much more money?

/I'm also pushing for a law to increase the rate of acceleration in freefall due to gravity to 12m/sec2
//would make bungee jumping more fun!
 
2011-06-03 01:36:47 PM

strathmeyer: serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?

You guys are going to shiat yourselves when you learn what kind of fuel is used to ship your food to you.

I'm not sure exactly where climate hysteria is right now, but cycling certainly uses more gallons of fuel per mile traveled, and releases much more CO2 into the air.


oh, don't make the mistake of thinking i give a shiat about the environment. I don't, but I do like saving money and time.
 
2011-06-03 01:39:13 PM

strathmeyer: serial_crusher: Infinity miles per gallon. You really think the government should enforce "efficiency" standards that don't include things like "hey fatass, stop carrying 4 tons of needless machinery to work with you every day"?

You guys are going to shiat yourselves when you learn what kind of fuel is used to ship your food to you.

I'm not sure exactly where climate hysteria is right now, but cycling certainly uses more gallons of fuel per mile traveled, and releases much more CO2 into the air.


Uses more fuel per mile than what?
 
2011-06-03 01:39:18 PM

Saiga410: Lol WUT. You cannot mandate scietific progress


i235.photobucket.com

/ORLY?
 
2011-06-03 01:39:25 PM

untaken_name: Hell, why stop at 62 mpg? Why not just mandate 250mpg and save us so much more money?

/I'm also pushing for a law to increase the rate of acceleration in freefall due to gravity to 12m/sec2
//would make bungee jumping more fun!


OOhh, goodie, a War on Gravity!

Now that I support.
 
2011-06-03 01:40:21 PM

Great_Milenko: If American automakers could build cars without fuel economy mandates, this is the only thing they'd be offering:



And us Americans would buy them in droves. That's really been the problem... the market itself. There has been a huge market for large vehicles and lots of consumers haven't given a flying fark what gas mileage they get - they just want them crammed with all the latest creature comforts.

If that market wasn't there, and more Americans did give a crap what mileage their trucks, vans and SUV's have gotten, they'd have been making them with better gas mileage. The foreign automakers have carved out a nice chunk of the market with more economical cars, but even there you can compare gas mileage over the years and see that the size and features of the cars have increased over the years and gas mileage has not improved, and has even declined in many cases.

Our gas has been cheap. Keep it expensive and the demand will change and all automakers will indeed adapt their offerings to it.

Not that I'm against mandating higher mileage standards per se... Just saying, if you really want to see that change then keep gas prices high or raise them even more.
 
2011-06-03 01:41:19 PM

killerkas: How about this: All passenger vehicles must be electric by 2020. Why not? Oh that's right, cause the big 3 will kill anyone who purposes such an idea. Hold on someone is at the door...


Coal lobby is not that wealthy any longer.
They abide!
 
2011-06-03 01:41:44 PM
Also, I do love people who complain about gas taxes.

In January 2011, motor gasoline taxes averaged 48.1 cents per gallon. Of which 18.7 cents/gallon is federal.

Question: Where's the other $3.50 go?
 
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