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(Onion AV Club)   For those who have been following, HBO's Game of Thrones is pulling off something pretty impressive. (NO SPOILERS BEYOND WHAT HAS AIRED ON THE SHOW, NO BOOK TALK)   (avclub.com ) divider line
    More: Cool  
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8213 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 May 2011 at 3:36 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-30 07:22:33 PM  

carnifex2005: I am Wee Todd Ed: JON SNOW IS NOT NED'S SON

BUT IS STILL A STARK ON HIS MOTHERS SIDE!?! I think his mom was Ned's sister who was "kidnapped" by one of the Tarygons(?) and was in love with her kidnapper and bore John. Ned knows this but never told anyone and claimed that John was his bastard son.

or Jon Snow is exactly what he is, Ned's bastard. It's never been stated directly and knowing GRRM he'd probably pull that switch just to fark with everyone who thinks they figured it out.


I'm assuming there could be a third option (no idea what tho) but Jon being Lyanna's son is something that most people could see a mile away; GRRM, knowing that, could go for an untwist and making Jon be plainly Ned's bastard, but if people know that grrm knows that he would go for an untwist, then... i don't know anymore...

www.davidlouisedelman.com
 
2011-05-30 07:24:21 PM  

RivenSilver: Jason Momoa's speech was incredible. The chest pounding, tribal gesticulating that accompanied it -- I liked him in SG:1 but didn't know he was so good until last night. I was a bit disappointed not to see a wicked smile on Dany's face while her husband was making that speech, but what ever.


Most of the acting in this series requires each actor to just stare blankly past the camera and not react to anything. Seems that way they can use that footage for any number of scenes they need to edit together later.

Love the books, like the series so far but it could be better.

Oh, and my favorite character is Tyrion Lannister. Scary-smart dwarf ftw.
 
2011-05-30 07:28:17 PM  

RivenSilver: Jason Momoa's speech was incredible. The chest pounding, tribal gesticulating that accompanied it -- I liked him in SG:1 but didn't know he was so good until last night. I was a bit disappointed not to see a wicked smile on Dany's face while her husband was making that speech, but what ever.


He was just doing the Hakka dance. If you watch rugby you'd be familiar with it when the All Blacks do it. It's the Maori war dance which I think Jason Momoa is part Maori (not sure). He wasn't acting, he was just practicing their dance.
 
2011-05-30 07:31:23 PM  

ninjakirby: DamnYankees: ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.

Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.

I will only say that any bet involving the death of a character won't give you hard odds in Vegas.


It's hard for mento discuss the show simply because the experience is so different. I spend most of each episode commenting on changes and how they elevate or alter the next step.

For example the scene with Baelish and the two whores from this episode is additional, but wonderfully conveys some internal material abou the character extremely well (though less close to the chest than is favorable imo).
Love watching that stuff.


Do you want to know *how many* of the men in prediction 3) live or die?

;-)
 
2011-05-30 07:42:01 PM  
The show is ok. My roommates love it because they've read the books but I didn't really get into it until this last episode and that was only after all the backstabbing started to play out.

One thing I have to say though, George R.R. Martin is a fat nerd pervert. Do we need five or six sex scenes per episode? The scene with Tommy Carcetti last night was just ridiculous. He could have delivered that dialogue without two chicks digging each other out in the background. Was the chest-shaving/blowjob scene from last week necessary? My friends told me that they hinted at that character being gay in the book but there was nothing that explicit.

I like tits, but man do they overdo it on this show.
 
2011-05-30 07:55:03 PM  

danny_kay: Pete_T_Mann: The only real miscasts I think were Sansa and Littlefinger. Sansa isnt nearly hot enough, and Littlefinger cant act his way out of a paper bag.

She is described as beautiful, and "beautiful" doesn't necessarily equate "hot".

Novel concept, I know...


Well, the TV Sansa isn't really either, as far as I can tell...

Dragon girl would have been a better Sansa, I think.
 
2011-05-30 07:55:46 PM  
I like it, but one thing I wonder about is the Night Watch. If I was those guys, I wouldn't feel much fealty toward a society that made me an outcast and banished me to freeze my ass off and die with only other male outcasts as company. In fact, once trained into badassdom, I'd be motivated to form into an army and go conquer the assholes who put me into that situation. Then stick THEM on the wall.
 
2011-05-30 08:06:47 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: danny_kay: Pete_T_Mann: The only real miscasts I think were Sansa and Littlefinger. Sansa isnt nearly hot enough, and Littlefinger cant act his way out of a paper bag.

She is described as beautiful, and "beautiful" doesn't necessarily equate "hot".

Novel concept, I know...

Well, the TV Sansa isn't really either, as far as I can tell...

Dragon girl would have been a better Sansa, I think.


I think she's perfect as Sansa because she's the "obedient queen" kind of beautiful.
 
2011-05-30 08:09:05 PM  

You are Borg: Dinobot: adamgreeney: MisterBill: Doran: Oh, and I'm a book reader. I used to think Ned was the dumbest character in the whole series.

I think that honor goes to his oldest son.

My big issue with Martin is how he names his chapters. I looked at the table of contents and knew immediately who would die, including my favorite character.

Also, I think Ned and Sansa win out for dumbest Stark. With Ned it's his own virtues that undo him, and that seems to be a running theme. No one ever gets past their most apparent virtue or vice.

Don't get me started with Sansa, and although she gets better by book 4... you can trace the undoing of the whole family to her, either directly or indirectly.

Also, I can never picture her properly, not even in the tv show... every time I hear sansa, I think of


SO.MUCH.THIS.

I have never hated a character so much...


Ahhh, so I'm not the only one who wishes Cersei should just off her for the hell of it? Good to know that she at least might be bearable by the end.

/only on Clash of Kings
 
2011-05-30 08:11:35 PM  

jjorsett: I like it, but one thing I wonder about is the Night Watch. If I was those guys, I wouldn't feel much fealty toward a society that made me an outcast and banished me to freeze my ass off and die with only other male outcasts as company. In fact, once trained into badassdom, I'd be motivated to form into an army and go conquer the assholes who put me into that situation. Then stick THEM on the wall.


They make a point of noting how thin their ranks are. Theyre basically a prison colony.
 
2011-05-30 08:28:22 PM  

danny_kay: ninjakirby: DamnYankees: ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.

Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.

I will only say that any bet involving the death of a character won't give you hard odds in Vegas.


It's hard for mento discuss the show simply because the experience is so different. I spend most of each episode commenting on changes and how they elevate or alter the next step.

For example the scene with Baelish and the two whores from this episode is additional, but wonderfully conveys some internal material abou the character extremely well (though less close to the chest than is favorable imo).
Love watching that stuff.

Do you want to know *how many* of the men in prediction 3) live or die?

;-)


All men die. Valar Morghulis.
 
2011-05-30 08:30:30 PM  

MisterBill: danny_kay: ninjakirby: DamnYankees: ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.

Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.

I will only say that any bet involving the death of a character won't give you hard odds in Vegas.


It's hard for mento discuss the show simply because the experience is so different. I spend most of each episode commenting on changes and how they elevate or alter the next step.

For example the scene with Baelish and the two whores from this episode is additional, but wonderfully conveys some internal material abou the character extremely well (though less close to the chest than is favorable imo).
Love watching that stuff.

Do you want to know *how many* of the men in prediction 3) live or die?

;-)

All men die. Valar Morghulis.


Niiice.
 
2011-05-30 08:32:06 PM  
There is a curtain to be pulled. The one that has really only been talked about by a few characters, and them on only one side.The book titles have been about the petty machinations of the Seven Kingdoms - Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings, etc. The SERIES title tells you what this is really about.

A Song of Ice and Fire. 85% of what has happened in the books has been little more than character background and setup for the apocalypse to come. Frankly (and this is just conjecture), I think Martin wipes out most of the Seven Kingdoms before this whole thing is done. I think the pitiful remnants of these houses end up thrown together in desperate defense of the last bastion of civilized man, and all the evil squabbling has just been to set up how unlikely that alliance will be.

Winter is coming.
 
2011-05-30 08:38:45 PM  
That 5 minute lesbian scene was awkward to watch with my wife...

"Enjoying that dear"... "yes they are hot" ~smack~ "... err no that is disgusting and not my thing" "LIAR" ~smack~. It was a no win situation.
 
2011-05-30 08:47:41 PM  

KushanMadman: There is a curtain to be pulled. The one that has really only been talked about by a few characters, and them on only one side.The book titles have been about the petty machinations of the Seven Kingdoms - Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings, etc. The SERIES title tells you what this is really about.

A Song of Ice and Fire. 85% of what has happened in the books has been little more than character background and setup for the apocalypse to come. Frankly (and this is just conjecture), I think Martin wipes out most of the Seven Kingdoms before this whole thing is done. I think the pitiful remnants of these houses end up thrown together in desperate defense of the last bastion of civilized man, and all the evil squabbling has just been to set up how unlikely that alliance will be.

Winter is coming.


Yes, but a fight between ice and fire would be a normal continuation of the story and not a curtain.
Unless there is some sort of surprising origin story.
...
But even then, he will play out the ultimate battle with the characters he set up, and when the dust (snow?) settles, there will be a winner.
Even if he still pulls more of his marvelous plot bunnies out of his hat, the structure of the story still closely resembles that of The Shield.
 
2011-05-30 08:52:32 PM  
Are there no monsters, non-human races, deities or demigods?

Then I'm not pirating this.
 
2011-05-30 08:59:16 PM  

MisterBill: danny_kay: ninjakirby: DamnYankees: ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.

Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.

I will only say that any bet involving the death of a character won't give you hard odds in Vegas.


It's hard for mento discuss the show simply because the experience is so different. I spend most of each episode commenting on changes and how they elevate or alter the next step.

For example the scene with Baelish and the two whores from this episode is additional, but wonderfully conveys some internal material abou the character extremely well (though less close to the chest than is favorable imo).
Love watching that stuff.

Do you want to know *how many* of the men in prediction 3) live or die?

;-)

All men die. Valar Morghulis.


You sir, win 1 internets! That was perfect.
 
2011-05-30 08:59:18 PM  

MisterBill: All men die. Valar Morghulis.



Well played.
 
2011-05-30 09:00:17 PM  

Primum: Are there no monsters, non-human races, deities or demigods?

Then I'm not pirating this.


The first scene of the entire series answers this question.
 
2011-05-30 09:00:54 PM  

Primum: Are there no monsters, non-human races, deities or demigods?

Then I'm not pirating this.


There are some, but have been inactive for hundreds, or thousands of years, they became folklore as people don't believe the stories anymore.
 
2011-05-30 09:11:15 PM  

danny_kay: KushanMadman: There is a curtain to be pulled. The one that has really only been talked about by a few characters, and them on only one side.The book titles have been about the petty machinations of the Seven Kingdoms - Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings, etc. The SERIES title tells you what this is really about.

A Song of Ice and Fire. 85% of what has happened in the books has been little more than character background and setup for the apocalypse to come. Frankly (and this is just conjecture), I think Martin wipes out most of the Seven Kingdoms before this whole thing is done. I think the pitiful remnants of these houses end up thrown together in desperate defense of the last bastion of civilized man, and all the evil squabbling has just been to set up how unlikely that alliance will be.

Winter is coming.

Yes, but a fight between ice and fire would be a normal continuation of the story and not a curtain.
Unless there is some sort of surprising origin story.
...
But even then, he will play out the ultimate battle with the characters he set up, and when the dust (snow?) settles, there will be a winner.
Even if he still pulls more of his marvelous plot bunnies out of his hat, the structure of the story still closely resembles that of The Shield.


I've been thinking it might be somewhat like that of Babylon 5. Where one threat builds and builds and is part of the established story... but you find out that the real issue is more complicated than just the battle with that threat. In terms of Ice and Fire, I don't think our characters are really part of either side. They're just in the way.
 
2011-05-30 09:11:57 PM  

Dinobot: Primum: Are there no monsters, non-human races, deities or demigods?

Then I'm not pirating this.

There are some, but have been inactive for hundreds, or thousands of years, they became folklore as people don't believe the stories anymore.


Then the old gods get new jobs.
 
2011-05-30 09:15:15 PM  
Hey I thought no spoilers beyond what has aired? I haven't read the books, just watching the series. Now I'm already spoiled. You guys suck.
 
2011-05-30 09:18:47 PM  

Egalitarian: Hey I thought no spoilers beyond what has aired? I haven't read the books, just watching the series. Now I'm already spoiled. You guys suck.


There were no spoilers in the article, no one said anything about the fark comment thread.
 
2011-05-30 09:21:17 PM  

Dinobot: Egalitarian: Hey I thought no spoilers beyond what has aired? I haven't read the books, just watching the series. Now I'm already spoiled. You guys suck.

There were no spoilers in the article, no one said anything about the fark comment thread.


Are you kidding? The headline is about the comment thread.

Anyone who spoils stuff without labeling it clearly is simply a massive asshole.
 
2011-05-30 09:27:21 PM  
I'm so glad I haven't read the books. Usually I'm familiar with the source material when this kind of thing comes out but I know nothing about George R.R. Martin, and I'm so glad.

I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know who's going to live or die. I was shocked when my favorite character was killed a couple of weeks ago. I was pissed when King Robert bit the dust.

There's a lot to be said about going into a story completely blind. You people who trade in spoilers are missing most of the fun of stories.
 
2011-05-30 09:28:44 PM  

Dinobot: Egalitarian: Hey I thought no spoilers beyond what has aired? I haven't read the books, just watching the series. Now I'm already spoiled. You guys suck.

There were no spoilers in the article, no one said anything about the fark comment thread.


I think that was implied by the headline.
 
2011-05-30 09:30:48 PM  

Confabulat: There's a lot to be said about going into a story completely blind. You people who trade in spoilers are missing most of the fun of stories.


Totally agree. I love going into things blind. I'm doing that now with Super 8 - I've avoided EVERYTHING about it. I really only know 2 facts: its called Super 8 and it stars the guy from Friday Night Lights.

Anyways, as to Game of Thrones, it's enjoyable knowing nothing, but unfortunately I've been accidentally spoiled about a few things. I won't say what I know, obviously, but I unfortunately know what happens to Ned Stark, I know the story of Cat's sister, and I know how John Arryn died. I wish I didn't - just makes it that much less thrilling to watch it unfold. It's still great though.
 
2011-05-30 09:35:59 PM  

DamnYankees: Confabulat: There's a lot to be said about going into a story completely blind. You people who trade in spoilers are missing most of the fun of stories.

Totally agree. I love going into things blind. I'm doing that now with Super 8 - I've avoided EVERYTHING about it. I really only know 2 facts: its called Super 8 and it stars the guy from Friday Night Lights.

Anyways, as to Game of Thrones, it's enjoyable knowing nothing, but unfortunately I've been accidentally spoiled about a few things. I won't say what I know, obviously, but I unfortunately know what happens to Ned Stark, I know the story of Cat's sister, and I know how John Arryn died. I wish I didn't - just makes it that much less thrilling to watch it unfold. It's still great though.


Sean Bean playing a character, any character, is a spoiler in and of itself.
 
2011-05-30 09:41:59 PM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: Jon Snow is half Stark and half Tarygon...

-Ned lied about John being his son in order to protect him from Robert of Baratheon, who wanted to kill all the dragons.

-John doesn't have the purple eyes and silver hair but other Tarygons(?) don't either.

-John is the oldest Tarygons and might be the rightful heir to the dragon throne.


THEORETICAL SPOILERS AHEAD RE: JON SNOW


AND A FEW MINOR DETAILS FROM THE BOOKS


Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna Stark and Raegar Targeryon. In book one, Ned has a dream about his memory of he and Howland Reed at the Tower of Joy. At the top of this tower, his sister and Jon Snow. At the bottom, members of the Kingsguard, who would only be there defending a member of the royal family, which Lyanna damn sure isn't.

Ned and Reed succeeded, and Ned took custody of Jon Snow, raising him as his own bastard, since King Robert would surely kill the son of the woman he loved and his mortal enemy.

We won't get confirmation until we see Howland Reed, who Bran is currently on his way to see (I believe this will be book 5, but it's been a few years.)

Jon Snow's features are so dark because while he is half-targeryan, the bleach blonde hair and purple eyes are a recessive trait in their gene pool, hence all the inbreeding, to keep their line pure.

My personal theory is that book 7 is going to come down to Jon Snow and Dany, either marrying and uniting the kingdom, or having a massive battle. hence the 'Song of Ice and Fire.'
 
2011-05-30 09:42:03 PM  
I haven't read the books, and don't usually go too big for fantasy-type stuff, and have been enjoying this tremendously.

For all the talk upthread about aging girl characters up to keep out of CP territory, I have to say the most disturbing scene so far was the 10 year old boy sucking tit.
 
2011-05-30 09:44:05 PM  

Brooklyn Irish Mets Fan: THEORETICAL SPOILERS AHEAD RE: JON SNOW


Thank you for that. Seriously.

Zulu_as_Kono: I haven't read the books, and don't usually go too big for fantasy-type stuff, and have been enjoying this tremendously.


To be fair, in the 7 episodes aired so far, there's literally nothing fantastical in this other than the first scene of the series. Right now it just plays like an alternate world set in the middle ages.
 
2011-05-30 09:44:48 PM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: JON SNOW IS NOT NED'S SON

BUT IS STILL A STARK ON HIS MOTHERS SIDE!?! I think his mom was Ned's sister who was "kidnapped" by one of the Tarygons(?) and was in love with her kidnapper and bore John. Ned knows this but never told anyone and claimed that John was his bastard son.


That's my theory as well.
 
2011-05-30 10:00:33 PM  

DamnYankees: Right now it just plays like an alternate world set in the middle ages.


And that's not "fantasy" how?
 
2011-05-30 10:01:23 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: DamnYankees: Right now it just plays like an alternate world set in the middle ages.

And that's not "fantasy" how?


There's nothing fantastical about it.
 
2011-05-30 10:03:35 PM  
Please no spoilers, but a question:

Is there magic in the books? (I havn't read any).
So far in tv show havn't seen any, but a guy did mention want to be a wizard. I see there were dragons. But magic doesn't seem to be around much if at all (like LotR).
 
2011-05-30 10:11:34 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop:
I've only read the 1st book (I'm not reading the others until Martin finishes the series), and the only characters I liked were Tyrion (who I think should end up ruling the kingdom), Jon Snow, and Arya Stark. Of course, given what I've heard about the series, they're probably all dead by now.


Then you haven't been paying attention. You should've guessed they've been turned into a traveling troubadour show as a human centipede.
 
2011-05-30 10:15:50 PM  

andrewabc: Please no spoilers, but a question:

Is there magic in the books? (I havn't read any).
So far in tv show havn't seen any, but a guy did mention want to be a wizard. I see there were dragons. But magic doesn't seem to be around much if at all (like LotR).


Yes but has been repressed and far weaker than in the old times. That changes and you'll find out why at the end of season one.
 
2011-05-30 10:17:10 PM  

andrewabc: Please no spoilers, but a question:

Is there magic in the books? (I havn't read any).
So far in tv show havn't seen any, but a guy did mention want to be a wizard. I see there were dragons. But magic doesn't seem to be around much if at all (like LotR).


Yes, there is, but its normally frowned upon and considered a bad thing for the most part
 
2011-05-30 10:23:24 PM  
If you do a GIS of Brienne of Tarth, there is a picture of Rebecca Lobo. No lie.
/valar morghulis
//hard to fulfill your destiny blind
///Sam the slayer ftw.
 
2011-05-30 10:24:52 PM  
Drogo's speech was just amazing, and the actor who delivered it was brilliant. I like the dynamic between Drogo and Dani...they are sweet with one another, but there is fire and passion there.

Also can I just say, I adore Sam. I think the character plays well off of Snow, whom I also love.

Sansa, Joffrey, Jamie, and Cersei can all die in a fire for all I care.
 
2011-05-30 10:26:58 PM  
SORRY FOR THE SPOILERS!!!

Totally sorry! I love this book series but cannot for the life of me get any of my nerd buddies to read the darn thing! They love Robert Jordon, J.R.R.Tolkien, Terry Pratchett, etc., but all refuse to read this amazing series. I keep telling them that the series is doing for fantasy books what the new Battlestar Galatica series did for sci/fi space t.v. dramas. So I don't really have anyone to talk about the book to and no one to float my theories on what is going to happen. Just superb writing and so many interesting characters.

I'm kind of poor right now and can't really afford cable or have the money to download from iTunes. Hopefully I can afford to purchase the series from iTunes and start watching to see how much it follows the book series.

LOVE THE BOOKS! Almost as good as Frank Herberts book Dune!
 
2011-05-30 10:28:45 PM  

mrsdish: Sansa, Joffrey, Jamie, and Cersei can all die in a fire for all I care.


I like Jaime. He can stick around. He's twisted and an asshole, but he's smart and interesting.

And maybe this is a spoiler, but maybe not, so I'll ask if its not - why the hell do people seem to upset at Jamie Lannister for killing the Mad King? Didn't everyone hate the Mad King? I don't get it. Robert and Ned and others rebel against this king because he's farking insane, and Jamie Lannister kills the guy rather than let the King destroy all of King's Landing. And this is a bad thing? I don't get it. I understand that as a member of the King's Guard that's bad form, but I mean, come on. It's like the Praetorian Guard killing Caligula - I'm sure most people were fine with it.
 
2011-05-30 10:30:29 PM  

Brooklyn Irish Mets Fan: THEORETICAL SPOILERS AHEAD RE: JON SNOW

AND A FEW MINOR DETAILS FROM THE BOOKS


That's not bad. It is out of Ned's character to have a bastard son. So Jon could be a Stark, just not Ned's. I haven't seen anything in cannon to suggest otherwise, though. Ned tells Jon "you may not have my name, but you have my blood."

I also think the Ice and Fire part could be R'hllor (Stannis and his crew) vs The Others. So far, R'hllor's worshipers are the only ones that have proven supernatural powers. And The Others ARE supernatural, so ...

But I agree with your "Jon & Dany" thinking.

Mine is pure speculation, because I'm only halfway through book 4.
 
2011-05-30 10:33:02 PM  

DamnYankees: There's nothing fantastical about it.


Uhm, it's on an alternate world. And there used to be dragons. And there's those things I can't remember the name of that are supposed to be long gone but are waking up.

Unless you're using "fantasy" in some super-specific jargon sense that non-nerds don't, how is all of that non-fantastical?
 
2011-05-30 10:34:29 PM  

DamnYankees: mrsdish: Sansa, Joffrey, Jamie, and Cersei can all die in a fire for all I care.

I like Jaime. He can stick around. He's twisted and an asshole, but he's smart and interesting.

And maybe this is a spoiler, but maybe not, so I'll ask if its not - why the hell do people seem to upset at Jamie Lannister for killing the Mad King? Didn't everyone hate the Mad King? I don't get it. Robert and Ned and others rebel against this king because he's farking insane, and Jamie Lannister kills the guy rather than let the King destroy all of King's Landing. And this is a bad thing? I don't get it. I understand that as a member of the King's Guard that's bad form, but I mean, come on. It's like the Praetorian Guard killing Caligula - I'm sure most people were fine with it.


I think the point is mostly that he broke his oath in an extremely visible way. He's supposed to die for his king and instead killed him for reasons you learn about in the later books. Yes, people hated and feared the old king, but they also depended on him for position and power. When a new regime takes over, the supporters of the old are the first to lose power.
 
2011-05-30 10:35:23 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Uhm, it's on an alternate world. And there used to be dragons. And there's those things I can't remember the name of that are supposed to be long gone but are waking up.


At this point in the series, we have no idea if there used to be dragons. All we know is that the people in the show believe in dragons. These are the equivalent of people from the Middle Ages - if you were watching a series about actual people in our middle ages, they would be having talks about dragons also. And wyverns and manticores and mermaids.

The story is merely fictional so far. The setting is not based in our world, but that's not all you need to be a fantasy story.
 
2011-05-30 10:36:36 PM  

MisterBill: I think the point is mostly that he broke his oath in an extremely visible way. He's supposed to die for his king and instead killed him for reasons you learn about in the later books. Yes, people hated and feared the old king, but they also depended on him for position and power. When a new regime takes over, the supporters of the old are the first to lose power.


Well, maybe they simply haven't shown up yet in the show, but I don't believe we've met a single person in Westeros who actually still supports the Targaryon claim to the throne.
 
2011-05-30 10:38:45 PM  
The Dragons will return - thats the fire. And they will battle Ice, which is the creatures behind the Wall. Not sure if Jon will survive since he has so many ties to the kingdoms. He sure is one of the most important characters, but I think it will be a full blooded Stark that triumphs in the end.
 
2011-05-30 10:40:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Zulu_as_Kono: Uhm, it's on an alternate world. And there used to be dragons. And there's those things I can't remember the name of that are supposed to be long gone but are waking up.

At this point in the series, we have no idea if there used to be dragons. All we know is that the people in the show believe in dragons. These are the equivalent of people from the Middle Ages - if you were watching a series about actual people in our middle ages, they would be having talks about dragons also. And wyverns and manticores and mermaids.

The story is merely fictional so far. The setting is not based in our world, but that's not all you need to be a fantasy story.


I believe we've seen the skulls in the series, actually. Well, and the eggs, but those could conceivably be the combination of odd rocks and wishful thinking.
 
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