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(Onion AV Club)   For those who have been following, HBO's Game of Thrones is pulling off something pretty impressive. (NO SPOILERS BEYOND WHAT HAS AIRED ON THE SHOW, NO BOOK TALK)   (avclub.com) divider line 259
    More: Cool  
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8211 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 May 2011 at 3:36 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-30 05:25:04 PM  

mtb9000: I know HBO has already renewed it for a second season, but it's so incredibly expensive I don't understand how they will be able to sustain the series, especially if the amount viewers decline (I hope this won't happen, but I'd say there's at best 50/50 chance). I will try to be cautiously optimistic.


I think its the opposite - it has a good chance of staying on BECAUSE its so expensive to make. They put a ton of money into this. That means they are going to try to make it worth it and not just abandon it. Also, I'm sure a ton of the costs were up front, merely building sets. None of the actors are all that famous (other than Bean and Dinklage, but they are hardly superstars), so the salaries probably aren't huge.
 
2011-05-30 05:26:09 PM  

kronicfeld: adamgreeney: MisterBill: Doran: Oh, and I'm a book reader. I used to think Ned was the dumbest character in the whole series.

I think that honor goes to his oldest son.

My big issue with Martin is how he names his chapters. I looked at the table of contents and knew immediately who would die, including my favorite character.

Also, I think Ned and Sansa win out for dumbest Stark. With Ned it's his own virtues that undo him, and that seems to be a running theme. No one ever gets past their most apparent virtue or vice.

I am holding A Clash of Kings right now and there is no table of contents. I dont recall a table of contents being in any other books. And his chapters are just titled with the name of the point of view character. So what the hell are ypu talking about?


I think he means that you can scan through the chapters and see whose names disappear and who goes to the end of the book. While some characters are completely absent from the third and fourth books, if a character has a recurring pov within a given book but they don't have any more chapters 2/3rds of the way through, its a good bet they got their head sewed onto a horse or thrown in a river or something.
 
2011-05-30 05:28:24 PM  

gilgigamesh: depicting rape rape of 12 year old girls


You said 'rape' twice.
 
2011-05-30 05:28:42 PM  

Dinobot:

Also, I can never picture her properly, not even in the tv show... every time I hear sansa, I think of


On the other hand, every time I take out my mp3 player, I think of George R. R. Martin.
 
2011-05-30 05:30:29 PM  

gilgigamesh: I think he means that you can scan through the chapters and see whose names disappear and who goes to the end of the book. While some characters are completely absent from the third and fourth books, if a character has a recurring pov within a given book but they don't have any more chapters 2/3rds of the way through, its a good bet they got their head sewed onto a horse or thrown in a river or something.


Although that's not precisely the case with the way book 4 and 5 are construed.

In fact, book 5 is supposed to chronologically overlap book 4 as it was divided by region rather than timeline.

Some POV characters that did not appear in book 4 will appear in book 5, some POV characters that appear in book 4 will reappear in book 5 and some POV characters that appear in book 4 will not appear in book 5.
 
2011-05-30 05:30:59 PM  

DamnYankees: mtb9000: I know HBO has already renewed it for a second season, but it's so incredibly expensive I don't understand how they will be able to sustain the series, especially if the amount viewers decline (I hope this won't happen, but I'd say there's at best 50/50 chance). I will try to be cautiously optimistic.

I think its the opposite - it has a good chance of staying on BECAUSE its so expensive to make. They put a ton of money into this. That means they are going to try to make it worth it and not just abandon it. Also, I'm sure a ton of the costs were up front, merely building sets. None of the actors are all that famous (other than Bean and Dinklage, but they are hardly superstars), so the salaries probably aren't huge.


The same could be said of Rome, and that was supposed to go on for only three seasons, so it wouldn't have cost HBO that much more to do it for just one more season than they did. I'm hoping you're right, though.
 
2011-05-30 05:31:00 PM  

mtb9000: I've really been enjoying the show. They are doing as good a job as I could have hoped for, especially with the look of it (the eyrie was just incredible and exactly how I envisioned it).

I know HBO has already renewed it for a second season, but it's so incredibly expensive I don't understand how they will be able to sustain the series, especially if the amount viewers decline (I hope this won't happen, but I'd say there's at best 50/50 chance). I will try to be cautiously optimistic.

I've read all the books, and if they are actually able to keep the series going, this show will be absolutely amazing for years to come.


Don't worry about the viewership, it's actually been climbing since their debut which is great news for a third and fourth season despite the cost.
 
2011-05-30 05:32:18 PM  
Anybody notice that Peter Dinklage always plays a dwarf, or somebody really short, like an elf? If he's not careful, he's going to find himself typecast.
 
2011-05-30 05:33:26 PM  

fishrockcarving: Anybody notice that Peter Dinklage always plays a dwarf, or somebody really short, like an elf? If he's not careful, he's going to find himself typecast.


One could say the same about Sean Bean.
 
2011-05-30 05:34:34 PM  

Dinobot: gilgigamesh: I think he means that you can scan through the chapters and see whose names disappear and who goes to the end of the book. While some characters are completely absent from the third and fourth books, if a character has a recurring pov within a given book but they don't have any more chapters 2/3rds of the way through, its a good bet they got their head sewed onto a horse or thrown in a river or something.

Although that's not precisely the case with the way book 4 and 5 are construed.

In fact, book 5 is supposed to chronologically overlap book 4 as it was divided by region rather than timeline.

Some POV characters that did not appear in book 4 will appear in book 5, some POV characters that appear in book 4 will reappear in book 5 and some POV characters that appear in book 4 will not appear in book 5.


I think I said that. Some characters don't have a POV at all in book 4.

If they do appear within a book for part of it, then disappear half way through, it's probably because their head is decorating a pike in Kings Landing.
 
2011-05-30 05:34:57 PM  

Dinobot: Don't get me started with Sansa, and although she gets better by book 4... you can trace the undoing of the whole family to her, either directly or indirectly.


Your right I have no hope for Sansa... However, I do have hope for Alayne.
 
2011-05-30 05:38:37 PM  

gilgigamesh: I think I said that. Some characters don't have a POV at all in book 4.


Yes, but you didn't specify why some characters disappear from book 4 and how book 4 and 5 are construed differently from the first three books.
 
2011-05-30 05:38:52 PM  

fishrockcarving: Anybody notice that Peter Dinklage always plays a dwarf, or somebody really short, like an elf? If he's not careful, he's going to find himself typecast.


THIS. Why couldn't he have played Tywin?
 
2011-05-30 05:41:42 PM  

Dinobot: gilgigamesh: I think I said that. Some characters don't have a POV at all in book 4.

Yes, but you didn't specify why some characters disappear from book 4 and how book 4 and 5 are construed differently from the first three books.


Before anyone brings it up. If the show ever gets that far I'm sure they will blend Feast and Dance together and operate more chronologically.
 
2011-05-30 05:45:05 PM  

Nefarious: Dinobot: gilgigamesh: I think I said that. Some characters don't have a POV at all in book 4.

Yes, but you didn't specify why some characters disappear from book 4 and how book 4 and 5 are construed differently from the first three books.

Before anyone brings it up. If the show ever gets that far I'm sure they will blend Feast and Dance together and operate more chronologically.


They already said they would, if they were to reach season 4.
 
2011-05-30 05:49:35 PM  

DamnYankees:

I just hope that even if Martin is completely committed to letting things play out brutally and "realistically", I hope he gives us as watchers someone to actually root for when the dust settles, and doesn't just let the bad guys always win.


I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, if he doesn't stick to his guns on character mortality in the TV medium, the entire exercise will seem pointless.

On the other hand, when he "split" Feast of Crows from Dance of Dragons in the books, Feast ended up with point of view characters I didn't care a lick about and unsympathetic villains I also didn't care a lick about. The worthwhile ones were either in the other book, dead, or so isolated from events that they ended up with subplots of their own. Supposedly Dance will be the other and better side of this, but it bothers me that Martin thought the extras in Feast of Crows were legitimately able to carry a book.

I had become pretty "bleh" on the series due to that and the years between books until this show revived my interest. Hopefully A Dance with Dragons brings me the rest of the way back.
 
2011-05-30 05:51:29 PM  

PirateFreedom: They have done a great job so far in bringing the story to TV.
It is surprisingly close to how I pictured things in my head when I was reading the books.
Peter Dinklage especially is doing a great job portraying my favorite character from the book, Tyrion Lannister.


I've only read the 1st book (I'm not reading the others until Martin finishes the series), and the only characters I liked were Tyrion (who I think should end up ruling the kingdom), Jon Snow, and Arya Stark. Of course, given what I've heard about the series, they're probably all dead by now.
 
2011-05-30 05:54:48 PM  
I know most would consider this blasphemy, but I almost like the show more than the book so far. The streamlining and "getting on with it" appeals to me. However, if I hadn't read the books, I don't know if I would think this.
 
2011-05-30 05:59:12 PM  

Cincinnati Kid: I know most would consider this blasphemy, but I almost like the show more than the book so far. The streamlining and "getting on with it" appeals to me. However, if I hadn't read the books, I don't know if I would think this.


I love the show, but I think it's because i read the books. I didn't need ten minutes of exposition to understand why Theon is such a douche, since I've read about the Greyjoy rebellion in the books. And understanding why Ned is so deferential and respectful toward Barristan. Etc.
 
2011-05-30 06:01:10 PM  
Also, why the fark aren't HBO shows available on itunes? I don't want to subscribe to HBO for 10 hours of programming per year. However, I would be willing to pay on a per show basis.
 
2011-05-30 06:02:33 PM  

Cincinnati Kid: Also, why the fark aren't HBO shows available on itunes? I don't want to subscribe to HBO for 10 hours of programming per year. However, I would be willing to pay on a per show basis.


HBO is pretty committed to completely controlling their content. You want their stuff you need to buy it directly from them.
 
2011-05-30 06:05:08 PM  

kronicfeld: Cincinnati Kid: I know most would consider this blasphemy, but I almost like the show more than the book so far. The streamlining and "getting on with it" appeals to me. However, if I hadn't read the books, I don't know if I would think this.

I love the show, but I think it's because i read the books. I didn't need ten minutes of exposition to understand why Theon is such a douche, since I've read about the Greyjoy rebellion in the books. And understanding why Ned is so deferential and respectful toward Barristan. Etc.


I find it hard to believe you could love it without having read the books. I would like to know what percentage of viewers haven't read any of the books.
 
2011-05-30 06:07:03 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: PirateFreedom: They have done a great job so far in bringing the story to TV.
It is surprisingly close to how I pictured things in my head when I was reading the books.
Peter Dinklage especially is doing a great job portraying my favorite character from the book, Tyrion Lannister.

I've only read the 1st book (I'm not reading the others until Martin finishes the series), and the only characters I liked were Tyrion (who I think should end up ruling the kingdom), Jon Snow, and Arya Stark. Of course, given what I've heard about the series, they're probably all dead by now.


Add daenerys to that list and you have the characters I care about. She doesn't become awesome until book 2-3 though.
 
2011-05-30 06:07:38 PM  

DamnYankees: Cincinnati Kid: Also, why the fark aren't HBO shows available on itunes? I don't want to subscribe to HBO for 10 hours of programming per year. However, I would be willing to pay on a per show basis.

HBO is pretty committed to completely controlling their content. You want their stuff you need to buy it directly from them.


I would be willing to buy it directly from them. I just don't want to pay a monthly fee for a channel I don't watch. I assume that eventually they want to get a Netflixish set up going, so that's why they do it the way they do.
 
2011-05-30 06:14:14 PM  

DamnYankees: Dinobot: brigid_fitch: DamnYankees: I have thought since the first episode that things are going to go very badly for Ned Stark. But jesus, that sucks. There's no way he doesn't die this season.

I just hope that even if Martin is completely committed to letting things play out brutally and "realistically", I hope he gives us as watchers someone to actually root for when the dust settles, and doesn't just let the bad guys always win.

It certainly doesn't help that Ned's an idiot:

/Can't take credit but there are a couple of spoilers if I point you to the source
//I've read through Book 4--very well-done series. As kronicfeld said, there are a great many characters to root for. And plenty more clockwork cities to be added to the opening credits.

Yeah, tvtropes labeled Ned as a too dumb to live type of character.

I really don't agree with any of this. Ned Stark isn't dumb. He's just really, really moral. You might think that's a bad idea, but there's never been a big moment in this show where I thought "jeez, this guy is a farking idiot".


You don't fight with honor.
No. But he did.

Omg foreshadowing


Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.
 
2011-05-30 06:17:04 PM  
I am a non-book viewer. I am enjoying the show so far and see the huge potential. I am trying to avoid the spoilers which is so hard in these shows with a set roadmap available.

Of course I am a sucker for HBO shows. Even gave John from Cincinnati a chance for a few episodes which I think shows my dedication to the company. I am still mad about the treatment of Carnivale and Deadwood from those programing cocksuckers.
 
2011-05-30 06:21:54 PM  

ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.


Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.
 
2011-05-30 06:30:41 PM  
Here's something that I've been pondering:

Martin said that he's scared of "pulling a Lost" in the fifth book.

I think that Ice & Fire is too different to make that probable.

I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.
And when they drew back the curtain, whatever was behind it was apparently not worth watching several seasons.
Same with BSG. They kept alluding to the last Cylon in hushed tones for ages, and the reveal was lame.

But I'm in the middle of the fourth book, and I don't think there IS a curtain in Ice & Fire.

What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.

I'd say, if Martin needed inspiration for the finale, he should look at The Shield.
Different genre, same way of weaving the plotlines.

Any (non-spoilery) thoughts?
 
2011-05-30 06:32:46 PM  

danny_kay: I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.


I'm going to defend Lost - it never made any such promise.

danny_kay: What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.


Aren't there supposed to be 7 novels? Seems unlikely everything would be tied up in book 5.
 
2011-05-30 06:34:33 PM  

DamnYankees: ninjakirby: Also, reading reviews from the PoV of people who haven't read the series is both weird and widely frustrating.

Frustrating you is my joy. Here are 3 current predictions:

1) There's no chance in hell the Dothraki ever invade Westeros. It's not happening. I see some sort of falling out, or perhaps even the death of Khal Drogo, followed by Dany leading an invasion using DRAGONS. That's right, biatches. She's gonna find some dragons and invade.

2) I also think Joffrey will not be King very long. He's gonna die.

3) The following people will die before the end of the season: Ned Stark, Jorah Mormont, Tywin Lannister and Benjen (that last one might be a little obvious.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME IF MY PREDICTIONS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. Feel free to be amused by them, of course.


I will only say that any bet involving the death of a character won't give you hard odds in Vegas.


It's hard for mento discuss the show simply because the experience is so different. I spend most of each episode commenting on changes and how they elevate or alter the next step.

For example the scene with Baelish and the two whores from this episode is additional, but wonderfully conveys some internal material abou the character extremely well (though less close to the chest than is favorable imo).
Love watching that stuff.
 
2011-05-30 06:34:44 PM  

DamnYankees: danny_kay: I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.

I'm going to defend Lost - it never made any such promise.

danny_kay: What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.

Aren't there supposed to be 7 novels? Seems unlikely everything would be tied up in book 5.


There are going to be 7 books. That being said, book five must start towards some sort of end game.
 
2011-05-30 06:35:20 PM  

Dinobot: adamgreeney: MisterBill: Doran: Oh, and I'm a book reader. I used to think Ned was the dumbest character in the whole series.

I think that honor goes to his oldest son.

My big issue with Martin is how he names his chapters. I looked at the table of contents and knew immediately who would die, including my favorite character.

Also, I think Ned and Sansa win out for dumbest Stark. With Ned it's his own virtues that undo him, and that seems to be a running theme. No one ever gets past their most apparent virtue or vice.

Don't get me started with Sansa, and although she gets better by book 4... you can trace the undoing of the whole family to her, either directly or indirectly.


Also, I can never picture her properly, not even in the tv show... every time I hear sansa, I think of



SO.MUCH.THIS.

I have never hated a character so much...
 
2011-05-30 06:35:32 PM  

DamnYankees: danny_kay: I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.

I'm going to defend Lost - it never made any such promise.


Really?
Okay, serves me right for talking about stuff I haven't seen.

danny_kay: What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.

Aren't there supposed to be 7 novels? Seems unlikely everything would be tied up in book 5.


SEVEN?

Wiki
Originally planned as a trilogy, the series now consists of four published volumes with the fifth expected to be published on July 12, 2011 and a further two planned.

shiat you're right.

Oh noes, he won't finish it in my lifetime :-(
 
2011-05-30 06:40:26 PM  

danny_kay: DamnYankees: danny_kay: I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.

I'm going to defend Lost - it never made any such promise.

Really?
Okay, serves me right for talking about stuff I haven't seen.

danny_kay: What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.

Aren't there supposed to be 7 novels? Seems unlikely everything would be tied up in book 5.

SEVEN?

Wiki
Originally planned as a trilogy, the series now consists of four published volumes with the fifth expected to be published on July 12, 2011 and a further two planned.

shiat you're right.

Oh noes, he won't finish it in my lifetime :-(


I've been waiting for an update on a certain character since the Sopranos Finale got pulled on them in book three.
 
2011-05-30 06:40:41 PM  

danny_kay: DamnYankees: danny_kay: I haven't watched Lost, but from what I gathered, the show kept referring to the thing behind the curtain, and sorta promised that once that thing was revealed, every mystery would suddenly make sense.

I'm going to defend Lost - it never made any such promise.

Really?
Okay, serves me right for talking about stuff I haven't seen.

danny_kay: What I expect for the fifth book is a neat tying up of all important ends, and not some great reveal.

Aren't there supposed to be 7 novels? Seems unlikely everything would be tied up in book 5.

SEVEN?

Wiki
Originally planned as a trilogy, the series now consists of four published volumes with the fifth expected to be published on July 12, 2011 and a further two planned.

shiat you're right.

Oh noes, he won't finish it in my lifetime :-(


NMA's (those wacky chinese cgi news people) take on GRRM: GRRM: Fantasy Blueballer (new window)
 
2011-05-30 06:42:20 PM  

ninjakirby: I've been waiting for an update on a certain character since the Sopranos Finale got pulled on them in book three.


I'm halfway through book 4, and if you are talking about who I think you are talking about, I'mma be pissed!
 
2011-05-30 06:45:01 PM  

HawgWild: ninjakirby: I've been waiting for an update on a certain character since the Sopranos Finale got pulled on them in book three.

I'm halfway through book 4, and if you are talking about who I think you are talking about, I'mma be pissed!


I've been waiting a decade. You've got the next book in just a month or so. Be glad.
 
2011-05-30 06:45:51 PM  
As a big fan of the books and well-done fantasy in general, so far this show has nailed it. It's fan-farking-tactic.

And Danerys is crazy hot. We need more nude scenes!
 
2011-05-30 06:46:38 PM  
Dumbledor dies on page 596.
 
2011-05-30 06:47:36 PM  

uncre8tv: Dumbledor dies on page 596.

 
2011-05-30 06:48:20 PM  

uncre8tv: Dumbledor dies on page 596.


Oops. Try again:

www.trollquotes.org
 
2011-05-30 06:51:49 PM  
It bums me out that Ned Stark is obviously going to buy the big, snowy farm this season. But, as has been pointed out, his character is noble yet written as being noblely stupid. Cersei obviously greased John Arryn and you tell her you have the info that will ruin her, her brother and her incestbrats? Can't decide whether that is lazy writing or if Martin designed the character so well that it was something he'd couldn't not do.

So far, my favorite characters are Bran,Arya and Jon Snow. Bran and Arya are tough little buggers and Jon Snow seems the most Ned-like of the Stark kids. Hopefully, not as noble to doom as Ned.
 
2011-05-30 06:54:14 PM  

DamnYankees: Oops. Try again:


bravo!
 
2011-05-30 06:56:16 PM  
JON SNOW IS NOT NED'S SON

BUT IS STILL A STARK ON HIS MOTHERS SIDE!?! I think his mom was Ned's sister who was "kidnapped" by one of the Tarygons(?) and was in love with her kidnapper and bore John. Ned knows this but never told anyone and claimed that John was his bastard son.
 
2011-05-30 07:00:25 PM  
Jon Snow is half Stark and half Tarygon...

-Ned lied about John being his son in order to protect him from Robert of Baratheon, who wanted to kill all the dragons.

-John doesn't have the purple eyes and silver hair but other Tarygons(?) don't either.

-John is the oldest Tarygons and might be the rightful heir to the dragon throne.
 
2011-05-30 07:04:36 PM  

MickCollins: Cersei obviously greased John Arryn


That is obvious isn't it... :-D
 
2011-05-30 07:05:25 PM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: JON SNOW IS NOT NED'S SON

BUT IS STILL A STARK ON HIS MOTHERS SIDE!?! I think his mom was Ned's sister who was "kidnapped" by one of the Tarygons(?) and was in love with her kidnapper and bore John. Ned knows this but never told anyone and claimed that John was his bastard son.


or Jon Snow is exactly what he is, Ned's bastard. It's never been stated directly and knowing GRRM he'd probably pull that switch just to fark with everyone who thinks they figured it out.
 
2011-05-30 07:12:20 PM  

Dinobot: Pete_T_Mann: Of course, HBO might have been worried about getting charged with CP if Sansa was supposed to be 13 and was getting asked about having a period..

I think Daenerys would be a bigger offender since she spent a good portion of the first book naked and having sexy with Drogo and is 13 years old as well. Well, in the book at least.

By comparison, asking a 13 year old Sansa about her period is tame.


Yeah, forgot about all the hot 13yr old sex with Drogo.

As far as aging them up, I really dont have a problem with it, especially since it let them cast Sean Bean. Though it still could have worked with them at the proper ages, The Borgias cast people somewhat accurately. But they might have been going for a wider audience with Game of Thrones.

The only real miscasts I think were Sansa and Littlefinger. Sansa isnt nearly hot enough, and Littlefinger cant act his way out of a paper bag.

One thing that hasnt been mentioned that I think is really good is the opening animation. I think that thing with the clockwork cities is pretty cool.
 
2011-05-30 07:15:28 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: The only real miscasts I think were Sansa and Littlefinger. Sansa isnt nearly hot enough, and Littlefinger cant act his way out of a paper bag.


She is described as beautiful, and "beautiful" doesn't necessarily equate "hot".

Novel concept, I know...
 
2011-05-30 07:19:57 PM  

kronicfeld: adamgreeney: MisterBill: Doran: Oh, and I'm a book reader. I used to think Ned was the dumbest character in the whole series.

I think that honor goes to his oldest son.

My big issue with Martin is how he names his chapters. I looked at the table of contents and knew immediately who would die, including my favorite character.

Also, I think Ned and Sansa win out for dumbest Stark. With Ned it's his own virtues that undo him, and that seems to be a running theme. No one ever gets past their most apparent virtue or vice.

I am holding A Clash of Kings right now and there is no table of contents. I dont recall a table of contents being in any other books. And his chapters are just titled with the name of the point of view character. So what the hell are ypu talking about?


I downloaded it on my nook. It has chapters listed. By the title, which is each persons name. So yeah, spoiler.
 
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