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(Reason Magazine)   New survey suggests owning a house in U.S. is dumb   (reason.com) divider line 242
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19445 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2011 at 12:00 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-30 03:18:49 PM

URAPNIS: Freezebyte: URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.


Just don't lose your job.

I'm not sure that I'm following..
Are you saying that I would be better off renting if I lost my job?



Of course. When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be. It's one of the perks of renting.

You? Banks don't deal with blow jobs. They're heartless. Why in eight months to a year, once the whole repossession process has been completed, you'd be out on your ass with nary a thing to show for it, while he's gleefully licking the salt off his lips.

Bet you wish you were a renter now! Hah!
 
2011-05-30 03:23:02 PM
the best part of these threads are the people who come in to justify their mortgage to everybody. It's a big financial decision, possibly the biggest one of your life, but still. relax. no one was judging you specifically.
 
2011-05-30 03:24:23 PM
The problem with the current housing market is that there is no house that I'd be interested in living in. Virtually everything built in the last 40 years has been suburban mcmansions built in noodly subdivisions, with zero access to quality public mass transit, and designed so that everyone needs a car to get anywhere - including very short trips.

I'd be far more interested in living somewhere that has amenities and transit that are within walking distance of where I live, than a place built to a scale that makes automobile ownership and operation near mandatory.

/in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.
//unless you love your MADD sponsored traffic stops on the drive home from the bar
 
2011-05-30 03:29:41 PM
Lamune_Baba: When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be.

www.fairfaxunderground.com
 
2011-05-30 03:30:56 PM

germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.


Move to Portland.
 
2011-05-30 03:31:43 PM

BrendaisBored: Hoping to close on a house this week so I'm getting a kick...

Really, it's cheaper here to buy than to own (Metro Detroit area). My mortgage on a 3 bed/2 bath/2 car garage will be under $600 a month. The cheapest rent (in a decent place) was $650 minimum.

Am I looking at this as investment...no. But it also seems smarter to spend less, get more back on my taxes and have a place I can call my own.

/may not be smart since I do still live in Michigan
//actually love it here...suck it haters


See? YOU might have a problem due to location, but then, Detroit and it's burbs got nowhere to go but up, right?

/is not a hater
//is realistic
/// LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION
//// slashies
 
2011-05-30 03:31:44 PM

spidermilk: On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a house and put NO MONEY DOWN. They didn't make any improvements to the house and were basically slobs, the one time I got to see the place there was trash literally everywhere. They let their dog destroy the backyard. Then after 2 years they decided to sell their house so that they could move to Texas for 1 year so her husband could go to school. Instead of trying to rent their house (because they didn't want someone to rent it and trash it...) when it didn't sell, they simply quit paying their mortgage.

WTF? And all of this while she quit her job at the bank (oh yeah, so she should know something about loans and money right?) and was unemployed while her husband went to school. So yeah, I guess owning a home is a bad idea if you are lazy and clueless...


They must be related to an acquaintance of mine (downgraded from friend since the level of stupid was more than I could bear)

They got $100k from a relative as a down payment/gift as long as they got a place where she could live with them. This relative was in her 70's and wanted a place to live with family AND give this family a chance to be settled.

So, they bought a $280k MOBILE HOME

Within 3 years they had trashed the place incl getting a Jack Russell Terrier who peed, shiat and chewed the place up. They got an adjustable rate and didn't bother to get a fixed until the mortgage went from $1000/m to $3000/m.

She wasn't working and then he lost his job. With his $20k severance they put in new floors and then went on vacation.

They finally sold the place for $220k and walked away with about $10k from the sale. Now, they are divorced and she is still not working but her new bf is an ex-South African soldier who is supposed to come into about $2 million but there are some problems. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Oh, and the relative who gave them the $100k in the first place died within the first year of living there.
 
2011-05-30 03:32:26 PM
Don't want a house? Don't buy one.

I will never go back. I can drill what I want, install what I want, upgrade as I wish, make as much noise as I want, skinny dip in my pool, grill every night (like I do), ad infinitum.

All this at 4.875% for less than 5 more years on a 15 year mortgage. When that is done I will owe absolutely ZERO to anyone except for property taxes. And being ~25 years from retirement that'll continue to lead to a hell of a nest egg.

If you think renting a place is a good long term plan for your future, cool!
 
2011-05-30 03:32:42 PM

Lamune_Baba: URAPNIS: Freezebyte: URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.


Just don't lose your job.

I'm not sure that I'm following..
Are you saying that I would be better off renting if I lost my job?


Of course. When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be. It's one of the perks of renting.

You? Banks don't deal with blow jobs. They're heartless. Why in eight months to a year, once the whole repossession process has been completed, you'd be out on your ass with nary a thing to show for it, while he's gleefully licking the salt off his lips.

Bet you wish you were a renter now! Hah!


As much as I totally LOL'd at your post, my mortgage has been paid off for the past year.
 
2011-05-30 03:33:47 PM
Renting can be good - if you plan on moving a lot, want flexibility, want low short term risk, are not all that sure of your financial stability and can either find a decent landlord or have a high tolerance for landlords being assholes.

Buying can be good - if you plan on settling somewhere for a minimum of 5+ years, have a fair amount of financial stability, want a property where you have a lot of freedom to do what you want with it and don't like your monthly housing payments to go up each year.

/among many other pros and cons.

Whether you should rent or buy is very dependent on their particular wants, needs, circumstances and local real-estate conditions. There is no one-size fits all.
 
2011-05-30 03:36:29 PM
Bought the current house almost 2 years ago, and thought the market was close to the bottom. went down a bit last year, but is rising this year. When we bought our house, there were 4 foreclosures on the block; now they're gone. Lotsa home improvements going on, yards and such, and we're doing it too.

We put our 20% down, and got a 15 year mortgage. Yeah, the payments are higher, but in the long run, you're building equity really quickly. Plus, my wife and I are "older", so what would we do with the extra money? put it in a bank?
 
2011-05-30 03:37:09 PM

enik: Don't want a house? Don't buy one.

I will never go back. I can drill what I want, install what I want, upgrade as I wish, make as much noise as I want, skinny dip in my pool, grill every night (like I do), ad infinitum.

All this at 4.875% for less than 5 more years on a 15 year mortgage. When that is done I will owe absolutely ZERO to anyone except for property taxes. And being ~25 years from retirement that'll continue to lead to a hell of a nest egg.

If you think renting a place is a good long term plan for your future, cool!


Don't forget about that hefty insurance premium.
 
2011-05-30 03:41:09 PM
I paid cash for my condo in 2009. It was brand new, never lived in and had been listed for $207,000. I got it for $115,000. I still lol when I think of the people in my building that have the exact same square footage and floor plan and paid full price.
 
2011-05-30 03:47:37 PM

germ78: The problem with the current housing market is that there is no house that I'd be interested in living in. Virtually everything built in the last 40 years has been suburban mcmansions built in noodly subdivisions, with zero access to quality public mass transit, and designed so that everyone needs a car to get anywhere - including very short trips.

I'd be far more interested in living somewhere that has amenities and transit that are within walking distance of where I live, than a place built to a scale that makes automobile ownership and operation near mandatory.


My wife and I are currently house hunting and are coming up to this exact problem - if we want a large house and a 1/4 acre lot we will have to buy something in a cookie cutter sub division with no amenities or public transport in walking distance. No judgement on people who that works for but it's not for me. I don't really get who thought sub-divisions that made people car dependent and were surrounded by strip malls were a good idea.
 
2011-05-30 03:47:39 PM
Our neighbors, who are divorcing, have been trying to sell their house for over seven months. Problem is, they spent godknowshowmuch turning it into the nicest and most upgraded house in the neighborhood and they started out asking double what they paid for it six years ago.

So they're dropping it 2 or 3k every few months, still coming by to mow the grass and tidy up every week. Nice people, I'm sure they anticipated spending the rest of their lives there, but someone in the real estate biz needs to give them a reality check.
 
2011-05-30 03:52:03 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


Actually, I'd love it if they built more like Portland everywhere else.
 
2011-05-30 03:54:37 PM

Plan C: Renting can be good - if you plan on moving a lot, want flexibility, want low short term risk, are not all that sure of your financial stability and can either find a decent landlord or have a high tolerance for landlords being assholes.


Not to mention waiting on them to make needed repairs that get back-burnered while you go without hot water and/or other basics for days because if you hire someone to make the repair on your OWN, YOU pay for it, not the landlord. (read your lease.)

Buying can be good - if you plan on settling somewhere for a minimum of 5+ years, have a fair amount of financial stability, want a property where you have a lot of freedom to do what you want with it and don't like your monthly housing payments to go up each year.

/among many other pros and cons.

Whether you should rent or buy is very dependent on their particular wants, needs, circumstances and local real-estate conditions. There is no one-size fits all.

Every time this thread gets greened, it's the same thing over and over again. What it all really boils down to though is a bunch of renters thinking that pissing money away every month with absolutely no hope of getting ANY return on that "investment" is somehow the "right" thing do do. Because they are FARKERS, dammit!
 
2011-05-30 03:54:55 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


Into a state which doesn't trust people to fuel their cars without help?
 
2011-05-30 03:56:38 PM

Plan C: I don't really get who thought sub-divisions that made people car dependent and were surrounded by strip malls were a good idea.


Oil companies, automobile companies, road construction firms, along with local government zoning boards who swallowed the new car-friendly zoning rules produced and supplied by the 3 parties already mentioned.
 
2011-05-30 03:57:24 PM

Perducci: There are millions and millions of homes in the US. They come in all shapes and sizes. They're located in cities, towns, on farmland, in forests, and deserts. They're new and old, expensive and cheap.

Maybe it's a teeeeensy bit foolish to generalize about the entire country's real estate market.

Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.


THIS....sorry, all you farkers who live in flyover states, or in the middle of godfarksaking nowhere (Mr. 3 Acres Guy), but owning a home in one of the more expensive real estate markets in America isn't as cut & dry of a good investment as it may be elsewhere. Home prices in NY, DC, SF, & other markets have outstripped income growth, have been more recession-proof than other places, and are still outside the reach of a lot of people. You'd be hard pressed to find a single-family home near anything and not in a ghetto for less than $3-400K here, and that's at the very low end.
 
2011-05-30 03:59:59 PM

lohphat: Into a state which doesn't trust people to fuel their cars without help?


1) it's one way to create jobs
2) you REALLY appreciate it when it's cold and rainy
3) there are a few places you can pump your own gas if you REALLY MUST.
 
2011-05-30 04:05:13 PM

bgflores: Perducci: There are millions and millions of homes in the US. They come in all shapes and sizes. They're located in cities, towns, on farmland, in forests, and deserts. They're new and old, expensive and cheap.

Maybe it's a teeeeensy bit foolish to generalize about the entire country's real estate market.

Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.

THIS....sorry, all you farkers who live in flyover states, or in the middle of godfarksaking nowhere (Mr. 3 Acres Guy), but owning a home in one of the more expensive real estate markets in America isn't as cut & dry of a good investment as it may be elsewhere. Home prices in NY, DC, SF, & other markets have outstripped income growth, have been more recession-proof than other places, and are still outside the reach of a lot of people. You'd be hard pressed to find a single-family home near anything and not in a ghetto for less than $3-400K here, and that's at the very low end.


You sound bitter? Why?
 
2011-05-30 04:05:30 PM
Everyone thinks their living situation is superior to everyone else's.
However, there's one thing we can all agree on.
People who willingly join HOAs are dumb.
 
2011-05-30 04:08:10 PM
Dumb? Maybe for some. Not for me. I bought in a great neighborhood, put 20% down, have plenty of equity, and plan to stay here for the next 20 years. I'm paying less in mortgage than I was in rent, and I can make all the home improvements I want (added central air, 20x20 deck, gutted and remodled kitchen) and don't share my yard and walls with anyone. It's pretty damn sweet if you ask me.

Buying a "starter" home that you think will appreciate in value so you can continue to move up and use it as an investment / ATM? That's still dumb.
 
2011-05-30 04:09:50 PM
Awww haters whining cause they don't have a down payment and credit.. WAHHHH..
 
2011-05-30 04:10:35 PM
Buy a house to get out of the renter's trap, not to build equity. Your goal should be to buy where you plan to live for quite some time, and then spend about the same amount you were while you were renting, setting aside money constantly for repairs. The point is, landlords aren't charities. They have all the same expenses a home owner would have, plus they want to make a profit. Your goal as a prospective home owner is to buy a house so you don't pay him that premium anymore. Build up equity in the house? Yes, someday you will stop having to pay the bank. Don't think of that as a moment when you own a giant asset; think of it as a moment that you have one fewer bill. It's like paying off a car. It's still going to depreciate. With a car, you eventually buy a new car. With a house, you make repairs. If you are doing it to play the market you may get burned. If you are doing it so you don't have to pay mortgage/rent when you are living off your pension, home ownership might be for you.

It's also nice to be able to put holes in the walls to hang paintings and not worry (assuming you go fixed rate) about your 'rent' going up. You can have cats and dogs and if they pee in the corner that's your rug they screwed up. You have more say over decorating and landscaping. That said, if your landlord won't let you repaint the rooms you can probably just negotiate with him, say add X amount to the deposit so he can repaint when you leave, and still have your walls the color you want without too much trouble.

Me personally, although I'd like my own house, I kind of also like having someone shovel my sidewalk or come and fix my sink without having to see if I have money to pay them.
 
2011-05-30 04:12:50 PM
The awesome thing about a house is its like a home and stuff. You can eat, sleep, cook in it.. All kinds of things! It costs about the same amount as renting, and someday it might actually be paid off, and will end up possibly being cheaper than renting? That's kind of nifty.
 
2011-05-30 04:14:32 PM

Nightjars: The awesome thing about a house is its like a home and stuff. You can eat, sleep, cook in it.. All kinds of things! It costs about the same amount as renting, and someday it might actually be paid off, and will end up possibly being cheaper than renting? That's kind of nifty.


THIS
 
2011-05-30 04:17:56 PM

Bukharin: my condo is awesome. mortgage is 1/2 the price of what my rent would be.


This, and I just restructured the mortgage for 3.85% with no closing costs plus I save 4 years on the term.
 
2011-05-30 04:19:40 PM
Would explain why mccain lost count after 8.
 
2011-05-30 04:21:08 PM

lohphat: I bought in 1999. Despite the market storm, the estimated value is twice what I paid for it. I've refinanced twice and have a low fixed rate. I'm considering a 15/fixed refi but the numbers show it's a washout so far.

Winning?


BUY-WINNING!
 
2011-05-30 04:25:46 PM

Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.


Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage, and Im not home enough for it to matter anyways.

Renting is a good option because you can scale down and save. When you own your typically forced to scale up. A cheap rent payment should be less than the average monthly upkeep of owning. So the old adage about throwing money away doesn't apply, unless you still think its going to appreciate.

Someday I might want a home to garden, mow my lawn, shovel the driveway, biatch about the paint chipping, And all the other boring crap people with homes do. For now im happy with a roof over my head and a bed to lay down and fark my girlfriend.
 
2011-05-30 04:27:31 PM
Sure hope the media keeps pumping the "housing is dead for a generation" line until I can save up and buy a few rental properties while they're still cheap.

If you've got the cash, this might be the best time in a generation to start investing in real estate - when people look at you funny for suggesting it and the general population thinks it's a bad idea.
 
2011-05-30 04:27:47 PM

chu2dogg: Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage


This REALLY REALLY depends on where you live.

I'd rent a whole house, because I have things. I require a certain amount of personal space.

And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.
 
2011-05-30 04:28:58 PM

Hurp: Freezebyte: Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.

What does that matter if you can leave it to your family so they don't have to pay rent?



I have no family
 
2011-05-30 04:35:50 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


I actually really do wanna move there
 
2011-05-30 04:41:28 PM

Semper Gumby: And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.


Transportation costs make the difference.

e.g. If you work in SF and live in SF, a monthly Muni pass is about $80 (or free if you bike). If that saves you 500$ a month in fuel savings, the higher rent means nothing. In addition you get access to parks, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. without added trips or planning overhead.
 
2011-05-30 04:43:46 PM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


Sharing walls does suck. Especially when the neighbors drill holes in them.
 
2011-05-30 04:51:10 PM

lohphat: Transportation costs make the difference.

e.g. If you work in SF and live in SF, a monthly Muni pass is about $80 (or free if you bike). If that saves you 500$ a month in fuel savings, the higher rent means nothing. In addition you get access to parks, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. without added trips or planning overhead


There is no option but to commute to where I work, unfortunately (not the city, but a 45 minute drive from Petaluma).

Also, the $500 in fuel still doesn't make up for the fact that you can rent a three-bedroom house with a backyard that allows dogs for $1650/mo in Petaluma. Trying to have pets in the city is a pain in the ass.

I love the space I have. I can't live closer to work because it's STUPID expensive in Marin, and really, I don't think I'd want to. I like exactly where my house is. I like that I can walk to four grocery stores, my favorite Thai restaurant, Petco, and Jamba Juice from my house. If I get drunk downtown and leave my car there, it's a lovely little 1 - 1.5 mile walk to retrieve it the next day. The weather's nice. It's fantastic.
 
2011-05-30 05:00:23 PM
That's right, poor people: owning real estate is stupid. Why don't you rent from us wealthy folk? We'll shoulder the burden of property ownership for you.
 
2011-05-30 05:02:30 PM

cchings: mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.

Sharing walls does suck. Especially when the neighbors drill holes in them.


26.media.tumblr.com

Pic of cchings
 
2011-05-30 05:03:30 PM

Semper Gumby: I love the space I have. I can't live closer to work because it's STUPID expensive in Marin, and really, I don't think I'd want to. I like exactly where my house is. I like that I can walk to four grocery stores, my favorite Thai restaurant, Petco, and Jamba Juice from my house. If I get drunk downtown and leave my car there, it's a lovely little 1 - 1.5 mile walk to retrieve it the next day. The weather's nice. It's fantastic.


No worries -- if it works for you then great. I just discovered I'm more a city boy after growing up in suburbia and having to drive to get anywhere.
 
2011-05-30 05:09:42 PM

Semper Gumby: chu2dogg: Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage

This REALLY REALLY depends on where you live.

I'd rent a whole house, because I have things. I require a certain amount of personal space.

And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.


If your using only a third of the house your rent should be a third of the mortgage. Go on craigslist and you'll find loads of homeowners willing to rent at a loss just to lower their own expenses.

As for cheap rent, you're just not looking hard enough. Ive found places in brooklyn just over the bridge for $500 a month.
 
2011-05-30 05:13:01 PM

chu2dogg: If your using only a third of the house your rent should be a third of the mortgage. Go on craigslist and you'll find loads of homeowners willing to rent at a loss just to lower their own expenses.


You're still talking about sharing space or renting a room, not a whole apartment or house.

I refuse to share space with roommates that aren't the person I'm sleeping with on a regular basis. What a farking nightmare.
 
2011-05-30 05:16:17 PM

lohphat: No worries -- if it works for you then great. I just discovered I'm more a city boy after growing up in suburbia and having to drive to get anywhere


I understand why; I have plenty of friends who live in the city, and I've visited and stayed there plenty of times.

I'm really introverted and I treasure my space, and my peace and quiet. I can get that outside of the city. When I'm in the city and on top of a million other people, I just feel crowded.

I also treasure my 60-lb dog, and she treasures my backyard and dog door.
 
2011-05-30 05:23:31 PM
Funny reading on how all the Amerikans in this thread are all :

1. Spend $$ you don't have on a house you can't afford.
2. Lose job you obtained with your Liberal Arts degree.
3. Leech unemployment.
4. Lose house from step 1.
5. Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.

I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for the Amerikan housing market.

Solution:
Stop being retards.
Stop buying big and living big (learn efficiency and quality).
Stop procreating.
Start listening to other cultures OUTSIDE your country. Embrace them.
Go back to school and educate yourself on something that will contribute to humanity.
 
2011-05-30 05:30:54 PM
I live in a small/medium market. There is startling gridlock in housing. The sellers aren't willing to come down, they buyers aren't willing to come up...so everything sits with homes often staying on the market for years. We've been looking for a bigger home for a while, but ours is paid for, we start having kids march off to college in a couple of year (I know, they should go for a science-based major not liberal arts), even the most conservative bank would love to loan to us, and it's just not worth the trouble unless we can get a great buy.
 
2011-05-30 05:31:37 PM
Is this the thread where I justify my lifestyle to random strangers? Oh, that's every thread.
 
2011-05-30 05:33:09 PM

cyclebiff: Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.


biff, you sound like a real horse's ass.
 
2011-05-30 05:42:09 PM

mmagdalene: cyclebiff: Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.

biff, you sound like a real horse's ass.


Lmao :)
 
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