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(Reason Magazine)   New survey suggests owning a house in U.S. is dumb   (reason.com) divider line 242
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19442 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2011 at 12:00 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-30 10:13:46 AM
Your dum!
 
2011-05-30 10:16:24 AM
my condo is awesome. mortgage is 1/2 the price of what my rent would be.
 
2011-05-30 10:18:22 AM
I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.
 
2011-05-30 10:21:00 AM
I don't care for the upkeep of a house, never did.

I would like to have a backyard of some sort, though. I'd be out there every day grilling something or other.
 
2011-05-30 10:22:47 AM
Yeah...because when I research buying a home, I check what is 'hip' that week and go that way. this week it's dumb, next week maybe it'll be wise again.

shoosh already.

buy a home or don't. quit treating home purchases like stock investments. If the house is too expensive, it's too expensive. buy what you can afford, yadda yadda.
 
2011-05-30 10:25:15 AM
I think it has it's benefits, and it's pitfalls. Most people over extend themselves when they buy, then don't have money for a little fun once in a while, or for upkeep, repairs etc. You just have to remember that while everyone trying to sell you a house will tell you what a great investment it is......it's not , unless you are fixing them up and selling them. It's an asset, nothing more. And it's free rent once you've paid it off.......early if you were smart. (well, except for those pesky taxes and insurance.
 
2011-05-30 10:26:06 AM
I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.
 
2011-05-30 10:30:48 AM
Honestly I am starting to think that it is dumb. Through the nineties and early 2000s houses were a pretty good investment, they weren't that expensive, and you could pay it off in a reasonable amount of time. Then things went through the roof, but that old mentality has not gone away yet, and it honestly seems like a lot of people have a disconnect with reality when it comes to what a house should cost and how one should pay for it. 30 or 35 year mortgages, no money down, paying astronomical prices for fixer-uppers, it's like all these people have had some real estate kool-aid that I haven't had.
 
2011-05-30 10:31:02 AM

basemetal: And it's free rent once you've paid it off.......early if you were smart

have basemetal money.

Luckily I seem to be hitting the sweet spot where all the initial repairs and unexpected costs upfront are finally going away. I do not miss renting. At all.
 
2011-05-30 10:32:03 AM
No mortgage, no rent, 3 acres. It's by no means a mansion, but it's all mine. I'm pretty sure owning it is beneficial to me, not detrimental.
 
2011-05-30 10:32:29 AM
I posted and this thread instantly got green-lit. how should I use this newfound super power, farkers? all Newsflash threads, all the time?
 
2011-05-30 10:33:22 AM
Yeah, because having a mortgage payment that's gonna be the same this year as it will in 5 (if you get the right kind) while ownership is dumb.

Not being at the behest of others is never "dumb."
 
2011-05-30 10:33:53 AM

hockeyfarker: and it honestly seems like a lot of people have a disconnect with reality when it comes to what a house should cost and how one should pay for it.


Ain't that the truth. You should see how much people are asking for properties around here, and by here I mean the absolute middle of farking nowhere. One house finally did sell for like 40K, they were asking 120. I don't even know why it sold for 40. I saw a house in the area literally SPRAY PAINTED on it: "$6000 OBO"
 
2011-05-30 10:34:14 AM

hockeyfarker: I posted and this thread instantly got green-lit. how should I use this newfound super power, farkers? all Newsflash threads, all the time?


foobies links
 
2011-05-30 10:35:22 AM
I'm pretty dumb and I don't own a home. Well, I mean, technically I guess I do because I'm still on the mortgage of the house I gave the husband in our divorce...how dumb is that?
 
2011-05-30 10:35:53 AM
Oooh..good, it went green.

This should be civil and not at all devolve into a thread in which people attempt to one-up each other until someone eventually lays claim to having a negative interest rate.
 
2011-05-30 10:36:26 AM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you.


i98.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-30 10:36:32 AM

hipcheckgrl: I'm pretty dumb and I don't own a home. Well, I mean, technically I guess I do because I'm still on the mortgage of the house I gave the husband in our divorce...how dumb is that?


Pretty dumb. I `won' my old house in divorce, but later decided to vacate. I let the ex have it, it was her or the bank. You think my name is on that loan anymore? Hell no. lrn2bankruptcy
 
2011-05-30 10:37:50 AM

Dwight Schrute: Not being at the behest of others is never "dumb."


DAMN THE MAN, AMIRITE??!?
 
2011-05-30 10:39:17 AM

hipcheckgrl: I'm still on the mortgage of the house I gave the husband in our divorce...how dumb is that?


i98.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-30 10:39:41 AM
The article suggests that owning is a good idea, but Americans who were polled indicated that it's their opinion that owning is dumb.

Americans are dumb. So, there's that.
 
2011-05-30 10:40:44 AM

nekom: Pretty dumb. I `won' my old house in divorce, but later decided to vacate. I let the ex have it, it was her or the bank. You think my name is on that loan anymore? Hell no. lrn2bankruptcy


It does sound dumb. We both lost our jobs in the middle of the legal crap and can't refinance. At this point, 2 years later, we still work together well, raising kids and stuff. It's been agreed that if he can't make the payments, I'll take it so that it doesn't get foreclosed on. We didn't overpay in the first place, so it's manageable. Getting along is easy for us when we're not married.
 
2011-05-30 10:43:08 AM
I rented for years before finally deciding to buy a house. But I let this smooth-talking realtor convince me to buy a house without a roof. She said it would be "breezy" and "get me closer to nature" and be "environmentally friendly." I bought into her song and dance and purchased the house. Then, the first time it rained, I got wet as sh*t. Now I have the buyer's remorse.
 
2011-05-30 10:43:26 AM

Kyro: basemetal: And it's free rent once you've paid it off.......early if you were smart have basemetal money.

Luckily I seem to be hitting the sweet spot where all the initial repairs and unexpected costs upfront are finally going away. I do not miss renting. At all.


We purposely did not buy a McMansion, there is only the two of us and four cats, (shup, two of them were inherited when my dad died). We kept it nice, affordable, with a decent yard that I could sculpt.Then we were able to still afford a life, and a little extra a month. Paid that f*cker off in about 12 years. Not everyone can do that, I understand, but just paying 50-100 a month shaves off sooo much time and interest. Now, I will divest myself from this green thread.
 
2011-05-30 10:43:46 AM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you.


Stop looking at places like the Morningwood Apartments.

control-h.org

I more often hear people on the sidewalk below my window than I do my neighbors. If I do near neighbors, it's most often through the hood over the stove.

/Building is 105 years old
//The politicians are only prolonging the misery, and calling it "saving us from another Great Depression"
 
2011-05-30 10:44:13 AM

hipcheckgrl: It does sound dumb. We both lost our jobs in the middle of the legal crap and can't refinance. At this point, 2 years later, we still work together well, raising kids and stuff. It's been agreed that if he can't make the payments, I'll take it so that it doesn't get foreclosed on. We didn't overpay in the first place, so it's manageable. Getting along is easy for us when we're not married.


No matter how long we are getting along (which is fairly well, given that she doesn't talk to me ever and I have custody of our child), there is no way in hell I would allow myself to be financially tied to her in any way, shape or form. All financial matters are business to me, not personal. That's the way I've always looked at it. After we divorced, I have no further interest in any business relationships with her, so I severed them. But to each their own.
 
2011-05-30 10:44:26 AM
I was under the impression that 'merikuns were too fat and entitled for nomadic tent living. Is this not true?
 
2011-05-30 10:45:53 AM

basemetal: Paid that f*cker off in about 12 years. Not everyone can do that, I understand, but just paying an extra 50-100 a month shaves off sooo much time and interest.

 
2011-05-30 10:46:09 AM
Ah, I would rather own my home than rent. I pay $480 a month for my mortgage which is cheaper than renting and don't have to hear my neighbors arguing or farking at all hours of the night. Also, I love being able to change anything I want with the house at a moments notice.
 
2011-05-30 10:47:08 AM
But, if you own your own house, you can drill holes in the walls and not get in trouble for it. At least, not immediately.
 
2011-05-30 10:48:14 AM

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.



I wonder how many have been told they could plant a garden only to have their downstairs neighbor get a dog that shiats all over it.

I wonder how many have had their rent raised because they complained about the lead paint in their apartment, only to have the landlord's brother-in-law drunkenly paint over it and get paint everywhere. Later the landlord keeps the security deposit because of 'stains on the carpet near the windows".

I wonder how many were told to find another place to live when a family member of the landlord needed a place to stay.
 
2011-05-30 10:51:50 AM
www.rtoonline.com

In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.
 
2011-05-30 10:53:26 AM
HAHA. Here we farking go.
 
2011-05-30 10:55:48 AM
I love having color in my house. I was tired of boring white walls and neighbors. Tired of renting and being told I can't have a dog.

I love that whenever I have to move away, I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.
 
2011-05-30 10:57:48 AM
I rented until Mr. Landlord complained about us partying at all hours of the night. So we bought a house and stayed there until we were partied out, then we bought a nicer house.
 
2011-05-30 11:00:31 AM
I'm proud that I own my house. After I gave the other one away in the divorce and rented for way too long, I'm happy that I own again and can maintain it myself and make the choices that I want to.
 
2011-05-30 11:00:41 AM

Semper Gumby: I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.


not sure if serious.jpg
 
2011-05-30 11:01:16 AM

DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.


Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.
 
2011-05-30 11:10:17 AM

hockeyfarker: Semper Gumby: I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.

not sure if serious.jpg


I'm given a set amount by the government for housing. I'm going to be here for AT LEAST four years. If I rented, I'd be giving about the same amount of money to a landlord and I'd never see it again. This way, even if I take a hit on the house, I still won't be worse for wear.

The housing market in this area is completely ridiculous. My house is small but coveted.
 
2011-05-30 11:12:35 AM

Semper Gumby: My house is small but coveted.


This.

I bought a sweet little house in a nice old neighborhood. With the improvements I make and the fact that I have no plans to move, I'm not concerned about losing money on resale.
 
2011-05-30 11:18:41 AM

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.


If the US didn't subsidize home-ownership through the tax code then people who couldn't really afford to buy wouldn't be as tempted.
 
2011-05-30 11:19:28 AM

noYOUare: This.

I bought a sweet little house in a nice old neighborhood. With the improvements I make and the fact that I have no plans to move, I'm not concerned about losing money on resale


I was one of three offers on the house when I went for it. It's ~975sqft, two (technically three) bedrooms, one bath, great yards. Maybe in a year I'll tear up the carpet and put down some hardwood floors. New crown molding... and maybe, in time, new windows. But the light in the house is amazing, the kitchen's small but I've made moves to brighten it up. I don't mind the smaller kitchen, it's really easy to reach everything right when you need it. It's not oppresively small.

The third bedroom is small, but it has french doors that open out to the deck. I turned it into my formal dining room because I have a bigass table that didn't have any other place to go. It looks fantastic.
 
2011-05-30 11:25:08 AM

Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.


For a lot of Americans it's about breaking even.... renting out their underwater "investment" when they had to move and couldn't find anyone to take over their mortgage.
 
2011-05-30 11:25:51 AM

mjsee: middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

If the US didn't subsidize home-ownership through the tax code then people who couldn't really afford to buy wouldn't be as tempted.


I feel the same way about the divorce rate.
 
2011-05-30 11:26:27 AM
Somebody's been reading xkcd today...

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2011-05-30 11:29:08 AM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to hear you farking. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


FTFY

/used to have neighbors who went at it constantly
 
2011-05-30 11:32:36 AM

DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.


I got curious about how bad an assfarking those places do give their victims, oh I mean customers, so I found a computer one of those places had for rental. It was a laptop, pretty much a piece of shiat (I mean, it had a Celeron processor; I had no idea they still make those things), which would be yours for just $19.95 a week, and it's yours in 52 weeks. That works out to just over a grand.

Meanwhile, I found a laptop with identical specs on Newegg for $299.
 
2011-05-30 11:36:40 AM
"The best way to bring back the house-happy America of yore would be to let prices fall to market-clearing levels."

Atlas Shrugged Part One tanked at the box office, yet Reason is still trying to sell this shiat?
 
2011-05-30 11:44:02 AM
My house isn't an investment. It's where I live. And if I hadn't bought it when I did, I would have been priced out of my awesome neighbourhood by now.
 
2011-05-30 11:45:11 AM

Semper Gumby: I'm given a set amount by the government for housing. I'm going to be here for AT LEAST four years.


that sounds like a good deal and everything Gumby but one assumes you are still paying interest on your loan because that's how loans work so no, you are not recouping all of your money. that said, if you're being paid a housing allowance, you are most likely better off buying. for others it can be more complicated.
 
2011-05-30 11:48:14 AM

hockeyfarker: that sounds like a good deal and everything Gumby but one assumes you are still paying interest on your loan because that's how loans work so no, you are not recouping all of your money. that said, if you're being paid a housing allowance, you are most likely better off buying. for others it can be more complicated.


I totally get that. For me, I'm coming out better than if I just rented. If I rented, that would be $1600/mo that I'd never see again, and that really adds up over four years (and I'm planning a follow-on tour here, so it may be 8-9 years).
 
2011-05-30 11:59:16 AM
God damn reason.com is dumb.

"If you want to know how people feel about an asset, all you need to know is what they pay for it."

How they *feel* about an asset. LOL. Uh, no. That tells you that they're willing and able to pay that much for the asset, and that they bought.
 
2011-05-30 12:08:28 PM
Houses won't really be a good deal again until they go back to requiring the buyer to provide 20% of his own cash as a down payment.
 
2011-05-30 12:08:34 PM
It is dumb if you finance more house than you can afford. Which is what way too many people did in the not-too-distant past.
 
2011-05-30 12:11:16 PM
As someone looking to buy a house in the immediate future I'm getting a kick.

/Currently renting a 10th story apartment in a building where half the elevators are out of order and the AC is patchy and they're planning on jacking up the rent... not gonna miss renting much.
 
2011-05-30 12:12:47 PM
Buying a house is great if you're planning on never moving and keeping the same secure, stable job for twenty+ years.
 
2011-05-30 12:13:06 PM

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.



So everybody loses. I finally get it.

/just kidding, I always got it.
 
2011-05-30 12:16:09 PM

Semper Gumby: I love having color in my house. I was tired of boring white walls and neighbors. Tired of renting and being told I can't have a dog.

I love that whenever I have to move away, I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.


When you own a home and move, you pay an average of $60k to do so after eveyone gets theirs from you.
 
2011-05-30 12:16:45 PM
As one of those rubes who own all I can say is "I like it."

i.imgur.com
 
2011-05-30 12:18:53 PM
There are millions and millions of homes in the US. They come in all shapes and sizes. They're located in cities, towns, on farmland, in forests, and deserts. They're new and old, expensive and cheap.

Maybe it's a teeeeensy bit foolish to generalize about the entire country's real estate market.

Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.
 
2011-05-30 12:24:46 PM
The problem with owning a home is that it makes it marginally easier for the police/FBI/etc. to find and detain you. Apartment-living has its own set of issues, but it also has attractions for people who want to keep a low profile and move around without calling attention to themselves.

Just sayin'....
 
2011-05-30 12:25:01 PM
Owning a house in certain areas might be a mistake, because that's the nature of real estate.

But to blanket the whole country with that statement is just... yeah.
 
2011-05-30 12:27:19 PM
This thread is more fun if you change "houses" to "horses" when you read it.
 
2011-05-30 12:27:50 PM

basemetal: Kyro: basemetal: And it's free rent once you've paid it off.......early if you were smart have basemetal money.

Luckily I seem to be hitting the sweet spot where all the initial repairs and unexpected costs upfront are finally going away. I do not miss renting. At all.

We purposely did not buy a McMansion, there is only the two of us and four cats, (shup, two of them were inherited when my dad died). We kept it nice, affordable, with a decent yard that I could sculpt.Then we were able to still afford a life, and a little extra a month. Paid that f*cker off in about 12 years. Not everyone can do that, I understand, but just paying 50-100 a month shaves off sooo much time and interest. Now, I will divest myself from this green thread.


You know, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to money but I went the opposite direction to paying off early. 30 year fixed mortgages are the cheapest they have ever been so I refinanced and I'm putting the extra $100 a month I'm saving over my previous mortgage and sinking it into my IRA. I will probably never again in my life be able to borrow twice my annual salary for below 5% interest so I figured it was a way to take advantage of the debt economy. I never looked at a house as an investment, more as a liability to be managed. The community I bought into has been on Forbe's 20 most affordable communities with great schools for the last two years (I've been here 6), so I think I did ok on that front =)
 
2011-05-30 12:30:29 PM

noYOUare: mjsee: middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

If the US didn't subsidize home-ownership through the tax code then people who couldn't really afford to buy wouldn't be as tempted.

I feel the same way about the divorce rate.


I dunno...we didn't get married thinking "Hey! It'll lower our taxes!" but maybe some folks do...that said, I don't think we should get a tax break for being married.
 
2011-05-30 12:32:26 PM
Living in a house you own is awesome. Night and day.

Sure, it is a little more responsibility; but worth it. And, it is cheaper than renting.
 
2011-05-30 12:32:33 PM
I paid my house off in 2005, paid a little extra every month on our 15 year mortgage that started in 1997. I think if you don't buy more house than you can afford in an area with good schools buying is a good deal.
 
2011-05-30 12:33:19 PM
Next time I overpay the mortgage on my duplex using just the rent I've collected from my tenant I promise to feel uncool for nearly a full second.

What a terrible investment this property has proven to be, yes indeed.
 
2011-05-30 12:33:45 PM
Houses shouldn't be investments unless you're doing some serious renovation, and you should only be doing that if you're got construction and housing experience.

Houses are places to live. You should put a hell of a lot down so you can sell if life happens and you should plan on living for a long time.

The recent trend that I think is the biggest problem is that people used to rent until they could get their 4 bedroom home for the wife and 2 kids but now people are buying their way up the housing ladder in situations where they HAVE to sell after short periods of time and usually don't yet have the financial stability for large downpayments and these kinds of people are just asking to get screwed by any sort of small economic jitter.

My advice for most would be wait to buy until you can put 25% on a place you could see yourself dying in.
 
2011-05-30 12:35:03 PM

rmoody: Buying a house is great if you're planning on never moving and keeping the same secure, stable job for twenty+ years.


This is a very important note.
 
2011-05-30 12:36:02 PM
came for a comparison between buying your own home and living in your mom's basement. Leaving disappointed.
 
2011-05-30 12:39:31 PM
i372.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-30 12:46:08 PM

Perducci: Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.


If you look at it as an investment, you're doing it wrong (for the vast majority of people who are buying a place for the purpose of living in it).
 
2011-05-30 12:46:45 PM

basemetal: basemetal: Paid that f*cker off in about 12 years. Not everyone can do that, I understand, but just paying an extra 50-100 a month shaves off sooo much time and interest.


Yep, my base is ~$1300 but I've got it topped up to $2000. We owe $180k on a house that's worth $500k+. Paid just over $300k six years ago.

/11 more years and it's paid off.
//I'll be 45.

12349876: Houses shouldn't be investments unless you're doing some serious renovation, and you should only be doing that if you're got construction and housing experience.

Houses are places to live. You should put a hell of a lot down so you can sell if life happens and you should plan on living for a long time.

My advice for most would be wait to buy until you can put 25% on a place you could see yourself dying in.


No, you should always, always, always get it inspected by a reputable, licenced inspector. If in doubt, get a PE to sign off on the house.

/I've seen some houses where you can see yourself dying in.
//Like, in the next five minutes if you don't leave.
///Sir, where the _fark_ is the support wall?
 
2011-05-30 12:48:41 PM

randomjsa: Owning a house in certain areas might be a mistake, because that's the nature of real estate.

But to blanket the whole country with that statement is just... yeah.


While this is true there IS something to be said about macro trends. Farkers were actually pretty early in calling the housing bubble because some of us looked at things like the price to earnings ratios in the 20 largest markets and saw that housing was becoming unaffordable to your average person even with zero down, interest only loans. If you aren't gaining any principal and you're paying 60+% of your takehome you have zero incentive to keep that house in a market slump.
 
2011-05-30 12:49:24 PM
Treating an individual house as an investment is dumb.

As a place to live, they're pretty solid.

//Disclaimer: as a long-term, bulk investment housing is actually pretty good. It's just people that buy a single building and expect it to appreciate steadily in value for near-guaranteed gain within a single decade that are retarded.

mjsee: I dunno...we didn't get married thinking "Hey! It'll lower our taxes!" but maybe some folks do...that said, I don't think we should get a tax break for being married.


People that are already living together often do. And, yeah, it's generally a mistake from what I've seen.
 
2011-05-30 12:50:14 PM
Homeowners are strapped with the crux of the tax load... Makes more sense than ever to rent now.

/10 years in the same house
//Still have equity, just not like before the bubble bust.
 
2011-05-30 12:51:23 PM
Or live in a part of the country where real estate has been pretty stable.

Also, a pretty good rule of thumb is that if you do the opposite of what the general public is saying you will do all right. So its probably a great time to buy.
 
2011-05-30 12:52:19 PM

theMagni: No, you should always, always, always get it inspected by a reputable, licenced inspector. If in doubt, get a PE to sign off on the house.


By "dying in" I meant living in for decades until old age and mother nature takes you to the great beyond. As opposed to buying a condo that you know won't be big enough to handle kids.
 
2011-05-30 12:52:59 PM

hipcheckgrl: This thread is more fun if you change "houses" to "horses" when you read it.



:D


it is, thanks!
 
2011-05-30 12:54:35 PM
I only owe $30K on my house, so I'm getting a real kick, etc.
 
2011-05-30 12:54:54 PM

Jim_Callahan: Treating an individual house as an investment is dumb.

As a place to live, they're pretty solid.

//Disclaimer: as a long-term, bulk investment housing is actually pretty good. It's just people that buy a single building and expect it to appreciate steadily in value for near-guaranteed gain within a single decade that are retarded.

mjsee: I dunno...we didn't get married thinking "Hey! It'll lower our taxes!" but maybe some folks do...that said, I don't think we should get a tax break for being married.

People that are already living together often do. And, yeah, it's generally a mistake from what I've seen.


this. had i know then what i know now, i would not have gotten married.
 
2011-05-30 12:57:00 PM

Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.


That would make sense. However, there are plenty of wannabe landlords that rent out with negative cash flow every month. They are subsidizing your rent. Why?!?!?!!? Because they don't care about the monthly cash flow, only the perceived capital appreciation. When housing crashes that perceived capital appreciation is gone.
 
2011-05-30 12:58:09 PM

Pockafrusta: Homeowners are strapped with the crux of the tax load... Makes more sense than ever to rent now.


How do you figure that?
 
2011-05-30 12:58:36 PM
Reason- always there to convince us to stay enslaved to our corporate masters.
 
2011-05-30 12:59:15 PM

rmoody: Buying a house is great if you're planning on never moving and keeping the same secure, stable job for twenty+ years.


This is very key.

CSB: People at work tell me I should look at buying a house, because they think I'm going to stick around after they finish paying for me to go through grad school. lol
 
2011-05-30 01:03:21 PM

larrylboberry: That would make sense. However, there are plenty of wannabe landlords that rent out with negative cash flow every month. They are subsidizing your rent. Why?!?!?!!? Because they don't care about the monthly cash flow, only the perceived capital appreciation. When housing crashes that perceived capital appreciation is gone.


Ten years ago I could see this happening widely but I'm pretty sure most of those folks are bankrupt by this point. I doubt many without an excess of wealth are still playing that game anymore.
 
2011-05-30 01:05:41 PM
Never understood why people get excited in a "hot" real estate market. They are so obsessed with how much they're making on their sale, that they seem to forget that whatever they want to buy will have gone up in price too, and if you're moving "up" in house, probably by a lot more than you made selling your house
 
2011-05-30 01:06:15 PM
I'm closing on a short sale this Friday (maybe) so I'm getting a kick out of all the replies.
 
2011-05-30 01:06:35 PM

larrylboberry: Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.

That would make sense. However, there are plenty of wannabe landlords that rent out with negative cash flow every month. They are subsidizing your rent. Why?!?!?!!? Because they don't care about the monthly cash flow, only the perceived capital appreciation. When housing crashes that perceived capital appreciation is gone.


These are the ones that make you wait a month to get a replacement stove or fridge. The other way to tell is if you wake up one morning and find a sheriff's sale notice on your door.
 
2011-05-30 01:07:09 PM
Renters are flushing money down the toilet. Owners at least keep some money and equity and get a write off for the interest.

Which is a shame because it ensure generational poverty, or makes escape much harder. Can't buy without a down payment, but can't save enough to HAVE a down payment.

Rent should be tax deductible up to the cost of a mortgage payment. Or maybe the money returned from the deduction goes into an escrow account that you can't touch until you use it as a down payment on a house.

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


^

Jim_Callahan: Treating an individual house as an investment is dumb.


Your house is not an investment. In fact it is a liability because it takes money out of your wallet. Investments put money IN your wallet. Your house becomes an asset when you rent it to someone else for a profit.

larrylboberry: That would make sense. However, there are plenty of wannabe landlords that rent out with negative cash flow every month.


Huge write offs might be part of the motive.
 
2011-05-30 01:10:23 PM

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.


IF you were conned into buying something you damn well knew you couldn't afford, it's your fault. Not mine, not the real estate agent's, and not the banks. Most people who bought and took a 'balloon' were speculators who thought they would flip the house before the balloon kicked in and got farked when the market tanked. Oh well. Ya pays yer money .. Ya takes yer chances. Anyway, this thread has inspired me to do some math. We bought this house in 1987. Paid 163K for it. It will be paid off next year which the following numbers correspond to. Current resale value is 285K, but let's call it 250 just for arguments sake. After refinancing once, we have averaged an 1,100/month mortgage payment that includes taxes. Ergo: 1100/month x 12 = 13,200 x 25 = 330K that it's cost us to live in a 3-bedroom ranch on about 1/3 acre of property at the Jersey Shore for 25 years. So let's say we sell it tomorrow (we could) for 250K. Now we have 330K (total cost over 25 years) - 250K (current value) = 80K. 80K divided by 25 years = 3,200/year divided by 12 = 266/month 'rent' including taxes over the past 25 years. Are we going to MAKE money, no? Never expected to.
 
2011-05-30 01:16:54 PM

Semper Gumby: It's ~975sqft, two (technically three) bedrooms, one bath, great yards.


Yep, same here. Bought a small, but solid 960 sq/ft house well under what my wife and I could afford. The 15-year mortgage + property tax is 14% of our monthly net income. It's in a nice rural (protected farmland) area, yet still only 5 minutes from the local commuter rail, and 15 minutes from a mall.

I love listening to movies as loud as I want, having a spacious backyard, and slowly making improvements to the place (next month, I'm installing solar panels). Renting is cool for some folks who want to stay mobile, but to me there's no comparison.
 
2011-05-30 01:19:05 PM
This survey has been paid for by the Institute of Commercial Property Investors, who thank you for paying the entire mortgage on their properties plus an extra $400 a month.
 
2011-05-30 01:22:55 PM

apeiron242: Your house becomes an asset when you rent it to someone else for a profit.


Even then it's still as much a liability as an asset - if your tenants stop paying their rent or when they move out you find they've either neglected or trashed the place and you need to put in some serious $$$ to be able to rent it out again. There's a lot of risk in being a landlord, especially if you don't have a lot of spare cash lying around.
 
2011-05-30 01:23:27 PM
1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.
 
2011-05-30 01:25:52 PM
I'm very happy I put my money in the bank instead of a house. I'm building my retirement hobby farm right now, and I'm spending the money on that, instead of trying to unload a house in this market. Rent's cheap, and I don't have to maintain anything. And I walk away when I'm ready.
 
2011-05-30 01:25:54 PM
I own my house because I wanted this particular property. I like the house. I like not being bothered by a landlord. I like being able to paint or alter it however I wish. I like not being in an apartment building, having to listen to my neighbors' music/fights/farking. I like being able to have pets and my own yard for them to poop in.

I didn't buy it for an investment, hoping to "flip" it for a quick profit. I bought it because I wanted it and wanted to live there as long as my circumstances permit. I didn't buy out of my price range, and I got a traditional mortgage from a traditional bank.

Yeah, I have to fix stuff when it breaks, but I'm not dependent on the whims of someone else to get it done. (I can choose the company that fixes it, ensuring a quality job rather than "Cousin Joe's neighbor's son who will do it for $20" and I can set my own schedule.)

If that's "dumb", so be it. I'm comfortable with my choice.
 
2011-05-30 01:26:46 PM
My wife and I are paying about $1050 a month for PITI and getting over $450 back every month in equity. If we rented, we'd be paying more money for a smaller and lesser quality apartment, and the amount we'd be paying would go up every year based on what the landlords need to pay for taxes and insurance. I'd say we made a good decision.

/YMMV
 
PJ-
2011-05-30 01:26:48 PM
Houses are not investments, they are lifetime purchases.
 
2011-05-30 01:27:03 PM
Someone has to own the houses. Why pay a landlord to own it when I can be a land lord?

/bought 8 years ago from a distressed seller
//not upside down but did refinance a 6.5 to a 5% a couple of years ago and can now put the difference back towards principal
///csb
 
2011-05-30 01:35:06 PM

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.


Interest is rent on money. Most loanowners can't get their minds around that simple fact.
 
2011-05-30 01:35:59 PM
My house has lost $4900 in "estimated" monies in the last three years thanks to how cheap new houses have been going for as developers desperately try to get rid of unsellable plots. In reality, it's probably worth about the same as it was then because we've made upgrades that make it more attractive than those cheaply built new houses.

Fortunately, the roof and walls haven't been informed of this fact yet and are still holding out the wind and rain as good as they did when I bought it.

/ buying a primary house with any expectation other than that it will be a long-term expense means you're a very stupid person
 
2011-05-30 01:36:03 PM
Man, really, when you don't have stable employment, owning a house is a really bad idea. If you are secure in your job, it may make a lot of sense. I don't own a home, because the last time my employer found out I take pills to correct schizoaffective disorder, they freaked out and my coworkers spread insane rumors that I was planning a mass murder spree. *Sigh* Most people are dumb, and at this point I don't feel safe in any job from idiots, bigotry, ignorance and insane gossip. I won't own a home until I land a job in a field where idiots can't make it through the rank. That means staying the hell out of social work and probably governmental work in general, which is what I was originally trained for and moving up in.
 
2011-05-30 01:36:21 PM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


Oh so much this.
 
2011-05-30 01:41:02 PM

Splinshints: My house has lost $4900 in "estimated" monies in the last three years thanks to how cheap new houses have been going for as developers desperately try to get rid of unsellable plots. In reality, it's probably worth about the same as it was then because we've made upgrades that make it more attractive than those cheaply built new houses.

Fortunately, the roof and walls haven't been informed of this fact yet and are still holding out the wind and rain as good as they did when I bought it.

/ buying a primary house with any expectation other than that it will be a long-term expense means you're a very stupid person


THIS.

I'll never understand the people who have no plans to move anytime soon, but are worried that their house has dropped in value. If you're not selling it, your house is worthless to anyone but you.
 
2011-05-30 01:41:58 PM
If you're more willing to pack up and move than make it a better place then our communities are doomed.

This is why home ownership is the cornerstone of what makes a society great. You have an investment in a home then you have an investment in the community. You are tethered and thusly you are forced to care about the things around you.
 
2011-05-30 01:42:55 PM

otterly_delicious: Someone has to own the houses. Why pay a landlord to own it when I can be a land lord?

/bought 8 years ago from a distressed seller
//not upside down but did refinance a 6.5 to a 5% a couple of years ago and can now put the difference back towards principal
///csb


Many landlords are losing their asses right now. Why be one of them?
 
2011-05-30 01:45:43 PM

ihatedumbpeople: Yeah...because when I research buying a home, I check what is 'hip' that week and go that way. this week it's dumb, next week maybe it'll be wise again.

shoosh already.

buy a home or don't. quit treating home purchases like stock investments. If the house is too expensive, it's too expensive. buy what you can afford, yadda yadda.


The big benefit of the housing crisis is that for the most part people do seem to have stopped treating them like investments. We have ACTUAL things that are supposed to be invested in, you want to play the stock market then do so. Imagine how annoying it would be if people created an artificial scarity in every freaking important commodity people wanted to buy.
/Can't buy water today, everyone decided it's worth 500% market
//Well water's a bad example
 
2011-05-30 01:47:38 PM

Kurty Pie:

THIS.

I'll never understand the people who have no plans to move anytime soon, but are worried that their house has dropped in value. If you're not selling it, your house is worthless to anyone but you.


And the county...

The less my house is estimated to be worth, the less my taxes.
 
2011-05-30 01:50:21 PM

AcneVulgaris: otterly_delicious: Someone has to own the houses. Why pay a landlord to own it when I can be a land lord?

/bought 8 years ago from a distressed seller
//not upside down but did refinance a 6.5 to a 5% a couple of years ago and can now put the difference back towards principal
///csb

Many landlords are losing their asses right now. Why be one of them?


I didnt say I was a landlord... but a land lord. Implying that I own the land. Geez.

You sound bitter.
 
2011-05-30 01:50:43 PM
Meh, I married into a property-owning family, so I don't mind paying rent. Also, since we don't know where we're going to be in five years, it doesn't make sense to buy now.
 
2011-05-30 01:56:09 PM

AcneVulgaris: otterly_delicious: Someone has to own the houses. Why pay a landlord to own it when I can be a land lord?

/bought 8 years ago from a distressed seller
//not upside down but did refinance a 6.5 to a 5% a couple of years ago and can now put the difference back towards principal
///csb

Many landlords are losing their asses right now. Why be one of them?


Because the majority is not "many."
 
2011-05-30 01:59:00 PM
We're w/in a couple years of paying off the mortgage, and could buy it today with savings. What's the dumb part?
 
2011-05-30 02:01:54 PM

ihatedumbpeople: Yeah...because when I research buying a home, I check what is 'hip' that week and go that way. this week it's dumb, next week maybe it'll be wise again.

shoosh already.

buy a home or don't. quit treating home purchases like stock investments. If the house is too expensive, it's too expensive. buy what you can afford, yadda yadda.



No kidding. I have a friend who wanks about how houses are a great investment... but he doesn't plan to move.

If it's a place to live, don't treat it as an investment.
 
2011-05-30 02:02:27 PM
I would like to thank people who get their homes foreclosed. In January I bought a house at about 60% of the appraised value. The previous owners lived there for about 2 years, completely trashed the place, and couldn't afford it. They were just meant to live it an apartment. I bought it from the bank, fixed it up, and moved in. My mortgage payment is about 1/3 of the rent at my old apartment. I don't see how my home purchase was dumb at all.
 
2011-05-30 02:06:44 PM

AcneVulgaris: middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

Interest is rent on money. Most loanowners can't get their minds around that simple fact.


Huh? The loan owners are the banks. I'm pretty sure they understand how interest works.
 
2011-05-30 02:08:09 PM

Ragingwookiee: I'm closing on a short sale this Friday (maybe) so I'm getting a kick out of all the replies.


Good luck!
 
2011-05-30 02:08:56 PM
B-B-B-But they're not making any more land!

/well if you put in ridiculous land use restrictions and refuse to build transport infrastructure, what do you expect?
//really hard not to notice the bubble happened in about 10 cities, and none of them were Dallas or Houston
 
2011-05-30 02:09:04 PM
Yeah, the whole 'mortgage cost less than renting' thing? Not so much in some places. Just try to find a place that isn't in a shiat-hole anywhere less than 2 hours away from NYC where you'll pay less on a mortgage/taxes/fees than just renting an apartment with some people in the city. And hell, unless your making mucho moolah, you won't even be able to afford the mortgage/taxes/fees on a place outside of a shiat-hole that doesn't require you to spend 5 hours a day commuting.

It's nice for all of you that live in places where you can pay so little on property that it makes sense to own. Some of us are tied to places where it isn't. Generalizations do not work here.
 
2011-05-30 02:14:28 PM

Semper Gumby: I love having color in my house. I was tired of boring white walls and neighbors. Tired of renting and being told I can't have a dog.

I love that whenever I have to move away, I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.


Except when you die... you can't recoup it then.

I love that condo life suits me.
 
2011-05-30 02:17:54 PM
I bought in 1999. Despite the market storm, the estimated value is twice what I paid for it. I've refinanced twice and have a low fixed rate. I'm considering a 15/fixed refi but the numbers show it's a washout so far.

Winning?
 
dwg
2011-05-30 02:20:32 PM

noYOUare: Semper Gumby: My house is small but coveted.

This.

I bought a sweet little house in a nice old neighborhood. With the improvements I make and the fact that I have no plans to move, I'm not concerned about losing money on resale.


Double this. Bought my house with the ex and decided to keep it. Even after paying twice for the improvements, I still have a house I paid less than half what my neighbors sold theirs for in the slump a few years ago. Never moving unless I leave the state.
 
2011-05-30 02:22:04 PM

hipcheckgrl: This thread is more fun if you change "houses" to "horses" when you read it.


kukukupo: Living in a house you own is awesome. Night and day.


i471.photobucket.com

First thing I thought of. Love your "horse for house" game!

/This was originally a wedding cake...
 
2011-05-30 02:23:22 PM

lohphat: I bought in 1999. Despite the market storm, the estimated value is twice what I paid for it. I've refinanced twice and have a low fixed rate. I'm considering a 15/fixed refi but the numbers show it's a washout so far.

Winning?


It all comes down to your own quality of life.

When I lived in an apartment I hated having to make a night of doing laundry. I hated not being able to modify the place as I desired. I hated holding off on a few sizable purchases that would take up more space than the apartment had available or were unreasonable to move multiple times. I hated my idiot neighbors that always seemed to be doing something big and loud when I was hungover. I hated how the rent got jacked up slowly over time. I hated how the landlord became less interested in fixing things the longer we were there. I hated how every month I wrote a check and wondered if I was paying for anything more than just a service rather than something that was actually tangible and physical.
 
2011-05-30 02:23:22 PM
Houses won't really be a good deal again until they go back to requiring the buyer to provide 20% of his own cash as a down payment.

Paying rent ate up all the money we needed for a down payment. Had 5% down (borrowed from parents) and took the PMI. Still paying about the same as we would on a much smaller apartment, and gaining equity as well.

middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

I wonder how many have been told they could plant a garden only to have their downstairs neighbor get a dog that shiats all over it.

I wonder how many have had their rent raised because they complained about the lead paint in their apartment, only to have the landlord's brother-in-law drunkenly paint over it and get paint everywhere. Later the landlord keeps the security deposit because of 'stains on the carpet near the windows".

I wonder how many were told to find another place to live when a family member of the landlord needed a place to stay.


I wonder how many were told to find another place to live (despite paying on time every month) when the building owner decided to sell or goes bankrupt.

I wonder how many are paying rent that increases $25 a year despite no improvements going into the building.

I wonder how many are paying full rent when their apartment has some piece of necessary equipment (refrigerator, toilet, heater, etc...) that is broken, which the owner "hasn't gotten around to" fixing.
 
2011-05-30 02:27:42 PM
The way the economy is going along with insane housing market pricing and unstable job market, i'll stick with Apt and condo living for a good while longer. I can just pick up and leave for the most part. Not so much with a 250k morgage. Still in my first apt after moving away from folks house 6 years ago.

I would love a garage and maybe even a yard someday but for now, i'll deal with the drawbacks of apt living compared to the hair pulling stress of house ownership


/rent all utilities paid $575 flat a month
//beat that
///hate my stuck up daddies little girl biatch neighbor though, slams doors all the time
 
2011-05-30 02:28:44 PM

nlscb: //really hard not to notice the bubble happened in about 10 cities, and none of them were Dallas or Houston


Uh, sure thing there sport. In your happy fantasy land, I guess there wasn't a bubble in Houston - nevermind actual reality. I bet in your world Texas has a balanced budget too (of course, in
And as a last comment on Texas, I think the headline says it all: a href="http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/26/go-ahead-and-mess-with-texas-i">Go Ahead and Mess With Texas; It's Run by Pussies
 
2011-05-30 02:29:55 PM

URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.



Just don't lose your job.
 
2011-05-30 02:31:26 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Houses won't really be a good deal again until they go back to requiring the buyer to provide 20% of his own cash as a down payment.



No thanks, that could pay for alot of rent with minimual strings attached.
 
2011-05-30 02:31:51 PM
Holy broken html batman. Lets try that again, then I'm off to do something even less productive than Fark for the day.

nlscb: //really hard not to notice the bubble happened in about 10 cities, and none of them were Dallas or Houston


Uh, sure thing there sport. In your happy fantasy land, I guess there wasn't a bubble in Houston - nevermind actual reality. I bet in your world Texas has a balanced budget too (of course, in pesky reality Texas has a larger deficit than CA as a percentage of their budget).

And as a last comment on Texas, I think the headline says it all: Go Ahead and Mess With Texas; It's Run by Pussies
 
2011-05-30 02:31:52 PM

hipcheckgrl: We didn't overpay in the first place, so it's manageable.


We didn't overpay either, we bought a fixer upper, the cheapest in the area. It's still worth just over half of what we owe. Didn't even take out a second mortgage to do the big projects we wanted to. The first mortgage was exactly half of what we were approved for too. Not everyone who is upside down bought an overpriced McMansion without thinking long term.
 
2011-05-30 02:31:54 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: AcneVulgaris: middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

Interest is rent on money. Most loanowners can't get their minds around that simple fact.

Huh? The loan owners are the banks. I'm pretty sure they understand how interest works.


Maybe that was too much of a leap. Replace "loanowner" with "debt slave".
 
2011-05-30 02:36:14 PM
I don't click Reason articles because they're too right-slanted. So I'm going to assume the reason why they say houses = bad is because that money you're investing into your house needs to be given to corporations as welfare.
 
2011-05-30 02:37:23 PM

Guidette Frankentits: I don't click Reason articles because they're too right-slanted. So I'm going to assume the reason why they say houses = bad is because that money you're investing into your house needs to be given to corporations as welfare.


Obviously you haven't read their gay rights or drug war articles.
 
2011-05-30 02:37:58 PM
If you bought a home as an investment, you probably failed. If you bought more home than you could rationally afford, you probably failed.

We official olde pharts remember when farm values were skyrocketing in the 60s and 70s, largely due to inflation. Farmers were told to "get big or get out" and banks and agri-lending institutions were more than willing to let farmers borrow to the hilt because, with the inflationary spiral, the farmers would be paying off those loans with inflated dollars. Farm lenders confidently told farmers that it was foolish to actually own anything - be it land or equipment - because any equity you had should be leveraged to get bigger.

When the inflationary spiral ground to a halt, land values also plummeted and farmers found themselves upside down. Since there were plenty of investors, foreign and domestic, who wanted to buy land, banks and lenders foreclosed in droves, farmers were forced out of business or were allowed to rent their previously owned land and try to make a go of it. The cash rent for their land now varies from year to year based on commodity prices and how many farmers want to rent a piece of land. The bottom line is that landowners make money, even though farmers may not.

The purpose of buying a home is to own real property on which one can live. If you enter the work force, spend a few years renting until you save up a down payment, get a modest house and a 15 year mortgage, and pay it off, barring taxes and utilities (which you will pay regardless) you have no more mortgage payment. Regardless of the value of the home, you have a place to live. Assuming you chose the location well and had good luck with the neighborhood, nothing prevents you from staying in that house long after you retire.

If you look at the house as an investment and finagle financing to get in with zero down (which also means no equity) you are setting yourself up for a catastrophic downfall, just like those farmers that leveraged everything in the 70s.

In the recent housing bubble, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played the same role for home owners that farm lending services played - suckering the unwitting into situations where they lost everything and the banks and lenders profited.
 
2011-05-30 02:38:54 PM
Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.
 
2011-05-30 02:41:32 PM

Freezebyte: Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.


Using that logic, why own anything if you can't take it with you.
 
2011-05-30 02:45:45 PM

Guidette Frankentits: I don't click Reason articles because they're too right-slanted. So I'm going to assume the reason why they say houses = bad is because that money you're investing into your house needs to be given to corporations as welfare.


I subscribed to Reason for a year and did not renew. Why?

The last straw was an anti-immigrant article on how they were causing all the problems. No mention of the businesses profiting form their labor without having to pay benefits, pay a competitive wage, payroll taxes.

The immigration problem could be solved in a matter of months if we jailed a few agri-business CEOs and seized their assets for hiring illegal workers.

But nooooo......it's easier to attack those who cannot defend themselves with proper representation.

Reason mag is Free Republic lite.
 
2011-05-30 02:46:20 PM

Freezebyte: URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.


Just don't lose your job.


I'm not sure that I'm following..
Are you saying that I would be better off renting if I lost my job?
 
2011-05-30 02:49:45 PM
The immigration problem could be solved in a matter of months if we jailed a few agri-business CEOs and seized their assets for hiring illegal workers.

^ that would be nice...
 
2011-05-30 02:52:05 PM

ebbyfish: The immigration problem could be solved in a matter of months if we jailed a few agri-business CEOs and seized their assets for hiring illegal workers.

^ that would be nice...


Also illegal immigrants should never buy a home. They never know when they could be deported.
 
2011-05-30 02:53:21 PM

Freezebyte: Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.


True.

But I could use the sale of it post-death to pay for my funeral and leave a tidy sum to hire some young kid to call you once a day, every day, and remind you what an asshat you are.

You have to realize; renting is buying into a service.....no more and no less. At the end of that term of service you have nothing tangible or physical other than the memories of what you had or did while you were there and the continuation of that is dependent wholly on whether you are willing to pony up for next month.
 
2011-05-30 02:55:54 PM

ebbyfish: The immigration problem could be solved in a matter of months if we jailed a few agri-business CEOs and seized their assets for hiring illegal workers.

^ that would be nice...


That's been my advice for some time. First, have some kind of biometric ID card that prevents ID fraud by illegals. Second, if you're caught hiring illegals, the first time you are fined the equivalent of 5 years salary or wages for all illegals in your employ. The second time, that fine doubles. The third time (3 strikes, you're out) all assets of the company are seized and sold at absolute auction. Someone else can try their hand at running your company.

It may sound draconian but, like the death penalty, it would reduce recidivism.
 
2011-05-30 02:57:11 PM

Freezebyte: Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.


What does that matter if you can leave it to your family so they don't have to pay rent?
 
2011-05-30 02:59:05 PM

AcneVulgaris: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: AcneVulgaris: middleoftheday: I wonder how many "rent is like throwing your money away" people are upside down on their mortgages.

Interest is rent on money. Most loanowners can't get their minds around that simple fact.

Huh? The loan owners are the banks. I'm pretty sure they understand how interest works.

Maybe that was too much of a leap. Replace "loanowner" with "debt slave".


You rent, right?
 
2011-05-30 03:09:51 PM
Bought a house last year and the mortgage payment is less than my rent used to be. Electric, water, and gas bills are lower too because it isn't as crappy as the duplex we were renting. Kept 3 of my renters (1 travels, 1 lives in the basement so I don't even notice 2/3 of them) and they pay most of the mortgage. In addition, I can do anything I want with the landscape, have room for a garden, and can have a big dog. No complaints, but it did take some time to find a house that was just right.

I don't expect to make a profit on my house, but unless the town I live in becomes some kind of scum heap it should stay worth more than I owe on it. I would rather be paying house payments than car payments. Obviously an actual investment would be better, or putting more money in my 401k, but I do have to live somewhere...
 
2011-05-30 03:13:30 PM
Hoping to close on a house this week so I'm getting a kick...

Really, it's cheaper here to buy than to own (Metro Detroit area). My mortgage on a 3 bed/2 bath/2 car garage will be under $600 a month. The cheapest rent (in a decent place) was $650 minimum.

Am I looking at this as investment...no. But it also seems smarter to spend less, get more back on my taxes and have a place I can call my own.

/may not be smart since I do still live in Michigan
//actually love it here...suck it haters
 
2011-05-30 03:15:15 PM
Reminds me of the guy that bought the house next to us. He bought it in Nov 09 for 360,000, gutted it, chopped down all the trees, installed 12 foot evergreens (you know how expensive these are) put in expensive tiling, doors etc, redid the driveway that was done only a year before he bought the house. The house is now worth 309,000, not counting what he paid for in all the upgrades, plus the upgrades have now put him above what the neighborhood is worth, so he flushed that money down the drain.

Don't be that guy. Home ownership is great, but buy what you like, and really, this dildo didn't see a 5 year trend of prices going down? Jackass.
 
2011-05-30 03:18:18 PM
On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a house and put NO MONEY DOWN. They didn't make any improvements to the house and were basically slobs, the one time I got to see the place there was trash literally everywhere. They let their dog destroy the backyard. Then after 2 years they decided to sell their house so that they could move to Texas for 1 year so her husband could go to school. Instead of trying to rent their house (because they didn't want someone to rent it and trash it...) when it didn't sell, they simply quit paying their mortgage.

WTF? And all of this while she quit her job at the bank (oh yeah, so she should know something about loans and money right?) and was unemployed while her husband went to school. So yeah, I guess owning a home is a bad idea if you are lazy and clueless...
 
2011-05-30 03:18:49 PM

URAPNIS: Freezebyte: URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.


Just don't lose your job.

I'm not sure that I'm following..
Are you saying that I would be better off renting if I lost my job?



Of course. When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be. It's one of the perks of renting.

You? Banks don't deal with blow jobs. They're heartless. Why in eight months to a year, once the whole repossession process has been completed, you'd be out on your ass with nary a thing to show for it, while he's gleefully licking the salt off his lips.

Bet you wish you were a renter now! Hah!
 
2011-05-30 03:23:02 PM
the best part of these threads are the people who come in to justify their mortgage to everybody. It's a big financial decision, possibly the biggest one of your life, but still. relax. no one was judging you specifically.
 
2011-05-30 03:24:23 PM
The problem with the current housing market is that there is no house that I'd be interested in living in. Virtually everything built in the last 40 years has been suburban mcmansions built in noodly subdivisions, with zero access to quality public mass transit, and designed so that everyone needs a car to get anywhere - including very short trips.

I'd be far more interested in living somewhere that has amenities and transit that are within walking distance of where I live, than a place built to a scale that makes automobile ownership and operation near mandatory.

/in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.
//unless you love your MADD sponsored traffic stops on the drive home from the bar
 
2011-05-30 03:29:41 PM
Lamune_Baba: When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be.

www.fairfaxunderground.com
 
2011-05-30 03:30:56 PM

germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.


Move to Portland.
 
2011-05-30 03:31:43 PM

BrendaisBored: Hoping to close on a house this week so I'm getting a kick...

Really, it's cheaper here to buy than to own (Metro Detroit area). My mortgage on a 3 bed/2 bath/2 car garage will be under $600 a month. The cheapest rent (in a decent place) was $650 minimum.

Am I looking at this as investment...no. But it also seems smarter to spend less, get more back on my taxes and have a place I can call my own.

/may not be smart since I do still live in Michigan
//actually love it here...suck it haters


See? YOU might have a problem due to location, but then, Detroit and it's burbs got nowhere to go but up, right?

/is not a hater
//is realistic
/// LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION
//// slashies
 
2011-05-30 03:31:44 PM

spidermilk: On the other hand, I have a friend who bought a house and put NO MONEY DOWN. They didn't make any improvements to the house and were basically slobs, the one time I got to see the place there was trash literally everywhere. They let their dog destroy the backyard. Then after 2 years they decided to sell their house so that they could move to Texas for 1 year so her husband could go to school. Instead of trying to rent their house (because they didn't want someone to rent it and trash it...) when it didn't sell, they simply quit paying their mortgage.

WTF? And all of this while she quit her job at the bank (oh yeah, so she should know something about loans and money right?) and was unemployed while her husband went to school. So yeah, I guess owning a home is a bad idea if you are lazy and clueless...


They must be related to an acquaintance of mine (downgraded from friend since the level of stupid was more than I could bear)

They got $100k from a relative as a down payment/gift as long as they got a place where she could live with them. This relative was in her 70's and wanted a place to live with family AND give this family a chance to be settled.

So, they bought a $280k MOBILE HOME

Within 3 years they had trashed the place incl getting a Jack Russell Terrier who peed, shiat and chewed the place up. They got an adjustable rate and didn't bother to get a fixed until the mortgage went from $1000/m to $3000/m.

She wasn't working and then he lost his job. With his $20k severance they put in new floors and then went on vacation.

They finally sold the place for $220k and walked away with about $10k from the sale. Now, they are divorced and she is still not working but her new bf is an ex-South African soldier who is supposed to come into about $2 million but there are some problems. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Oh, and the relative who gave them the $100k in the first place died within the first year of living there.
 
2011-05-30 03:32:26 PM
Don't want a house? Don't buy one.

I will never go back. I can drill what I want, install what I want, upgrade as I wish, make as much noise as I want, skinny dip in my pool, grill every night (like I do), ad infinitum.

All this at 4.875% for less than 5 more years on a 15 year mortgage. When that is done I will owe absolutely ZERO to anyone except for property taxes. And being ~25 years from retirement that'll continue to lead to a hell of a nest egg.

If you think renting a place is a good long term plan for your future, cool!
 
2011-05-30 03:32:42 PM

Lamune_Baba: URAPNIS: Freezebyte: URAPNIS: 1100 square ft.
2 car garage.
Nice yard.
It's a modest, well built house and most of my friends have a much nicer one.
Installed new windows, redid kitchen, next is bathrooms.
I paid if off in 10 years and my Jeep is also paid for.
No kids, no wife, no bills.


Just don't lose your job.

I'm not sure that I'm following..
Are you saying that I would be better off renting if I lost my job?


Of course. When you're paying someone else's mortgage you always have the opportunity to offer sexual favors to the landlord. He'd gladly suck a few dicks to keep residence in his rented room in someone else's property if need be. It's one of the perks of renting.

You? Banks don't deal with blow jobs. They're heartless. Why in eight months to a year, once the whole repossession process has been completed, you'd be out on your ass with nary a thing to show for it, while he's gleefully licking the salt off his lips.

Bet you wish you were a renter now! Hah!


As much as I totally LOL'd at your post, my mortgage has been paid off for the past year.
 
2011-05-30 03:33:47 PM
Renting can be good - if you plan on moving a lot, want flexibility, want low short term risk, are not all that sure of your financial stability and can either find a decent landlord or have a high tolerance for landlords being assholes.

Buying can be good - if you plan on settling somewhere for a minimum of 5+ years, have a fair amount of financial stability, want a property where you have a lot of freedom to do what you want with it and don't like your monthly housing payments to go up each year.

/among many other pros and cons.

Whether you should rent or buy is very dependent on their particular wants, needs, circumstances and local real-estate conditions. There is no one-size fits all.
 
2011-05-30 03:36:29 PM
Bought the current house almost 2 years ago, and thought the market was close to the bottom. went down a bit last year, but is rising this year. When we bought our house, there were 4 foreclosures on the block; now they're gone. Lotsa home improvements going on, yards and such, and we're doing it too.

We put our 20% down, and got a 15 year mortgage. Yeah, the payments are higher, but in the long run, you're building equity really quickly. Plus, my wife and I are "older", so what would we do with the extra money? put it in a bank?
 
2011-05-30 03:37:09 PM

enik: Don't want a house? Don't buy one.

I will never go back. I can drill what I want, install what I want, upgrade as I wish, make as much noise as I want, skinny dip in my pool, grill every night (like I do), ad infinitum.

All this at 4.875% for less than 5 more years on a 15 year mortgage. When that is done I will owe absolutely ZERO to anyone except for property taxes. And being ~25 years from retirement that'll continue to lead to a hell of a nest egg.

If you think renting a place is a good long term plan for your future, cool!


Don't forget about that hefty insurance premium.
 
2011-05-30 03:41:09 PM
I paid cash for my condo in 2009. It was brand new, never lived in and had been listed for $207,000. I got it for $115,000. I still lol when I think of the people in my building that have the exact same square footage and floor plan and paid full price.
 
2011-05-30 03:47:37 PM

germ78: The problem with the current housing market is that there is no house that I'd be interested in living in. Virtually everything built in the last 40 years has been suburban mcmansions built in noodly subdivisions, with zero access to quality public mass transit, and designed so that everyone needs a car to get anywhere - including very short trips.

I'd be far more interested in living somewhere that has amenities and transit that are within walking distance of where I live, than a place built to a scale that makes automobile ownership and operation near mandatory.


My wife and I are currently house hunting and are coming up to this exact problem - if we want a large house and a 1/4 acre lot we will have to buy something in a cookie cutter sub division with no amenities or public transport in walking distance. No judgement on people who that works for but it's not for me. I don't really get who thought sub-divisions that made people car dependent and were surrounded by strip malls were a good idea.
 
2011-05-30 03:47:39 PM
Our neighbors, who are divorcing, have been trying to sell their house for over seven months. Problem is, they spent godknowshowmuch turning it into the nicest and most upgraded house in the neighborhood and they started out asking double what they paid for it six years ago.

So they're dropping it 2 or 3k every few months, still coming by to mow the grass and tidy up every week. Nice people, I'm sure they anticipated spending the rest of their lives there, but someone in the real estate biz needs to give them a reality check.
 
2011-05-30 03:52:03 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


Actually, I'd love it if they built more like Portland everywhere else.
 
2011-05-30 03:54:37 PM

Plan C: Renting can be good - if you plan on moving a lot, want flexibility, want low short term risk, are not all that sure of your financial stability and can either find a decent landlord or have a high tolerance for landlords being assholes.


Not to mention waiting on them to make needed repairs that get back-burnered while you go without hot water and/or other basics for days because if you hire someone to make the repair on your OWN, YOU pay for it, not the landlord. (read your lease.)

Buying can be good - if you plan on settling somewhere for a minimum of 5+ years, have a fair amount of financial stability, want a property where you have a lot of freedom to do what you want with it and don't like your monthly housing payments to go up each year.

/among many other pros and cons.

Whether you should rent or buy is very dependent on their particular wants, needs, circumstances and local real-estate conditions. There is no one-size fits all.

Every time this thread gets greened, it's the same thing over and over again. What it all really boils down to though is a bunch of renters thinking that pissing money away every month with absolutely no hope of getting ANY return on that "investment" is somehow the "right" thing do do. Because they are FARKERS, dammit!
 
2011-05-30 03:54:55 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


Into a state which doesn't trust people to fuel their cars without help?
 
2011-05-30 03:56:38 PM

Plan C: I don't really get who thought sub-divisions that made people car dependent and were surrounded by strip malls were a good idea.


Oil companies, automobile companies, road construction firms, along with local government zoning boards who swallowed the new car-friendly zoning rules produced and supplied by the 3 parties already mentioned.
 
2011-05-30 03:57:24 PM

Perducci: There are millions and millions of homes in the US. They come in all shapes and sizes. They're located in cities, towns, on farmland, in forests, and deserts. They're new and old, expensive and cheap.

Maybe it's a teeeeensy bit foolish to generalize about the entire country's real estate market.

Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.


THIS....sorry, all you farkers who live in flyover states, or in the middle of godfarksaking nowhere (Mr. 3 Acres Guy), but owning a home in one of the more expensive real estate markets in America isn't as cut & dry of a good investment as it may be elsewhere. Home prices in NY, DC, SF, & other markets have outstripped income growth, have been more recession-proof than other places, and are still outside the reach of a lot of people. You'd be hard pressed to find a single-family home near anything and not in a ghetto for less than $3-400K here, and that's at the very low end.
 
2011-05-30 03:59:59 PM

lohphat: Into a state which doesn't trust people to fuel their cars without help?


1) it's one way to create jobs
2) you REALLY appreciate it when it's cold and rainy
3) there are a few places you can pump your own gas if you REALLY MUST.
 
2011-05-30 04:05:13 PM

bgflores: Perducci: There are millions and millions of homes in the US. They come in all shapes and sizes. They're located in cities, towns, on farmland, in forests, and deserts. They're new and old, expensive and cheap.

Maybe it's a teeeeensy bit foolish to generalize about the entire country's real estate market.

Maybe - just maybe - some homes are a good investment and others are not.

THIS....sorry, all you farkers who live in flyover states, or in the middle of godfarksaking nowhere (Mr. 3 Acres Guy), but owning a home in one of the more expensive real estate markets in America isn't as cut & dry of a good investment as it may be elsewhere. Home prices in NY, DC, SF, & other markets have outstripped income growth, have been more recession-proof than other places, and are still outside the reach of a lot of people. You'd be hard pressed to find a single-family home near anything and not in a ghetto for less than $3-400K here, and that's at the very low end.


You sound bitter? Why?
 
2011-05-30 04:05:30 PM
Everyone thinks their living situation is superior to everyone else's.
However, there's one thing we can all agree on.
People who willingly join HOAs are dumb.
 
2011-05-30 04:08:10 PM
Dumb? Maybe for some. Not for me. I bought in a great neighborhood, put 20% down, have plenty of equity, and plan to stay here for the next 20 years. I'm paying less in mortgage than I was in rent, and I can make all the home improvements I want (added central air, 20x20 deck, gutted and remodled kitchen) and don't share my yard and walls with anyone. It's pretty damn sweet if you ask me.

Buying a "starter" home that you think will appreciate in value so you can continue to move up and use it as an investment / ATM? That's still dumb.
 
2011-05-30 04:09:50 PM
Awww haters whining cause they don't have a down payment and credit.. WAHHHH..
 
2011-05-30 04:10:35 PM
Buy a house to get out of the renter's trap, not to build equity. Your goal should be to buy where you plan to live for quite some time, and then spend about the same amount you were while you were renting, setting aside money constantly for repairs. The point is, landlords aren't charities. They have all the same expenses a home owner would have, plus they want to make a profit. Your goal as a prospective home owner is to buy a house so you don't pay him that premium anymore. Build up equity in the house? Yes, someday you will stop having to pay the bank. Don't think of that as a moment when you own a giant asset; think of it as a moment that you have one fewer bill. It's like paying off a car. It's still going to depreciate. With a car, you eventually buy a new car. With a house, you make repairs. If you are doing it to play the market you may get burned. If you are doing it so you don't have to pay mortgage/rent when you are living off your pension, home ownership might be for you.

It's also nice to be able to put holes in the walls to hang paintings and not worry (assuming you go fixed rate) about your 'rent' going up. You can have cats and dogs and if they pee in the corner that's your rug they screwed up. You have more say over decorating and landscaping. That said, if your landlord won't let you repaint the rooms you can probably just negotiate with him, say add X amount to the deposit so he can repaint when you leave, and still have your walls the color you want without too much trouble.

Me personally, although I'd like my own house, I kind of also like having someone shovel my sidewalk or come and fix my sink without having to see if I have money to pay them.
 
2011-05-30 04:12:50 PM
The awesome thing about a house is its like a home and stuff. You can eat, sleep, cook in it.. All kinds of things! It costs about the same amount as renting, and someday it might actually be paid off, and will end up possibly being cheaper than renting? That's kind of nifty.
 
2011-05-30 04:14:32 PM

Nightjars: The awesome thing about a house is its like a home and stuff. You can eat, sleep, cook in it.. All kinds of things! It costs about the same amount as renting, and someday it might actually be paid off, and will end up possibly being cheaper than renting? That's kind of nifty.


THIS
 
2011-05-30 04:17:56 PM

Bukharin: my condo is awesome. mortgage is 1/2 the price of what my rent would be.


This, and I just restructured the mortgage for 3.85% with no closing costs plus I save 4 years on the term.
 
2011-05-30 04:19:40 PM
Would explain why mccain lost count after 8.
 
2011-05-30 04:21:08 PM

lohphat: I bought in 1999. Despite the market storm, the estimated value is twice what I paid for it. I've refinanced twice and have a low fixed rate. I'm considering a 15/fixed refi but the numbers show it's a washout so far.

Winning?


BUY-WINNING!
 
2011-05-30 04:25:46 PM

Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.


Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage, and Im not home enough for it to matter anyways.

Renting is a good option because you can scale down and save. When you own your typically forced to scale up. A cheap rent payment should be less than the average monthly upkeep of owning. So the old adage about throwing money away doesn't apply, unless you still think its going to appreciate.

Someday I might want a home to garden, mow my lawn, shovel the driveway, biatch about the paint chipping, And all the other boring crap people with homes do. For now im happy with a roof over my head and a bed to lay down and fark my girlfriend.
 
2011-05-30 04:27:31 PM
Sure hope the media keeps pumping the "housing is dead for a generation" line until I can save up and buy a few rental properties while they're still cheap.

If you've got the cash, this might be the best time in a generation to start investing in real estate - when people look at you funny for suggesting it and the general population thinks it's a bad idea.
 
2011-05-30 04:27:47 PM

chu2dogg: Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage


This REALLY REALLY depends on where you live.

I'd rent a whole house, because I have things. I require a certain amount of personal space.

And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.
 
2011-05-30 04:28:58 PM

Hurp: Freezebyte: Newsflash homeowners: You don't take your house with you when you die.

What does that matter if you can leave it to your family so they don't have to pay rent?



I have no family
 
2011-05-30 04:35:50 PM

Semper Gumby: germ78: /in other words, Semi-urban [greater than, greater than, greater than] Suburban.

Move to Portland.


I actually really do wanna move there
 
2011-05-30 04:41:28 PM

Semper Gumby: And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.


Transportation costs make the difference.

e.g. If you work in SF and live in SF, a monthly Muni pass is about $80 (or free if you bike). If that saves you 500$ a month in fuel savings, the higher rent means nothing. In addition you get access to parks, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. without added trips or planning overhead.
 
2011-05-30 04:43:46 PM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


Sharing walls does suck. Especially when the neighbors drill holes in them.
 
2011-05-30 04:51:10 PM

lohphat: Transportation costs make the difference.

e.g. If you work in SF and live in SF, a monthly Muni pass is about $80 (or free if you bike). If that saves you 500$ a month in fuel savings, the higher rent means nothing. In addition you get access to parks, bars, restaurants, museums, etc. without added trips or planning overhead


There is no option but to commute to where I work, unfortunately (not the city, but a 45 minute drive from Petaluma).

Also, the $500 in fuel still doesn't make up for the fact that you can rent a three-bedroom house with a backyard that allows dogs for $1650/mo in Petaluma. Trying to have pets in the city is a pain in the ass.

I love the space I have. I can't live closer to work because it's STUPID expensive in Marin, and really, I don't think I'd want to. I like exactly where my house is. I like that I can walk to four grocery stores, my favorite Thai restaurant, Petco, and Jamba Juice from my house. If I get drunk downtown and leave my car there, it's a lovely little 1 - 1.5 mile walk to retrieve it the next day. The weather's nice. It's fantastic.
 
2011-05-30 05:00:23 PM
That's right, poor people: owning real estate is stupid. Why don't you rent from us wealthy folk? We'll shoulder the burden of property ownership for you.
 
2011-05-30 05:02:30 PM

cchings: mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.

Sharing walls does suck. Especially when the neighbors drill holes in them.


26.media.tumblr.com

Pic of cchings
 
2011-05-30 05:03:30 PM

Semper Gumby: I love the space I have. I can't live closer to work because it's STUPID expensive in Marin, and really, I don't think I'd want to. I like exactly where my house is. I like that I can walk to four grocery stores, my favorite Thai restaurant, Petco, and Jamba Juice from my house. If I get drunk downtown and leave my car there, it's a lovely little 1 - 1.5 mile walk to retrieve it the next day. The weather's nice. It's fantastic.


No worries -- if it works for you then great. I just discovered I'm more a city boy after growing up in suburbia and having to drive to get anywhere.
 
2011-05-30 05:09:42 PM

Semper Gumby: chu2dogg: Who rents a whole house though?

A rent payment is like 1/3 the price of a mortgage

This REALLY REALLY depends on where you live.

I'd rent a whole house, because I have things. I require a certain amount of personal space.

And rent here is more expensive or the same price as a mortgage. There is no such thing as a $500 apartment. 1-bedroom apartments in Petaluma run around $1600+. You can find duplexes for a little less, maybe $1300. The closer you get to the city, the more outrageous the rent gets.


If your using only a third of the house your rent should be a third of the mortgage. Go on craigslist and you'll find loads of homeowners willing to rent at a loss just to lower their own expenses.

As for cheap rent, you're just not looking hard enough. Ive found places in brooklyn just over the bridge for $500 a month.
 
2011-05-30 05:13:01 PM

chu2dogg: If your using only a third of the house your rent should be a third of the mortgage. Go on craigslist and you'll find loads of homeowners willing to rent at a loss just to lower their own expenses.


You're still talking about sharing space or renting a room, not a whole apartment or house.

I refuse to share space with roommates that aren't the person I'm sleeping with on a regular basis. What a farking nightmare.
 
2011-05-30 05:16:17 PM

lohphat: No worries -- if it works for you then great. I just discovered I'm more a city boy after growing up in suburbia and having to drive to get anywhere


I understand why; I have plenty of friends who live in the city, and I've visited and stayed there plenty of times.

I'm really introverted and I treasure my space, and my peace and quiet. I can get that outside of the city. When I'm in the city and on top of a million other people, I just feel crowded.

I also treasure my 60-lb dog, and she treasures my backyard and dog door.
 
2011-05-30 05:23:31 PM
Funny reading on how all the Amerikans in this thread are all :

1. Spend $$ you don't have on a house you can't afford.
2. Lose job you obtained with your Liberal Arts degree.
3. Leech unemployment.
4. Lose house from step 1.
5. Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.

I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for the Amerikan housing market.

Solution:
Stop being retards.
Stop buying big and living big (learn efficiency and quality).
Stop procreating.
Start listening to other cultures OUTSIDE your country. Embrace them.
Go back to school and educate yourself on something that will contribute to humanity.
 
2011-05-30 05:30:54 PM
I live in a small/medium market. There is startling gridlock in housing. The sellers aren't willing to come down, they buyers aren't willing to come up...so everything sits with homes often staying on the market for years. We've been looking for a bigger home for a while, but ours is paid for, we start having kids march off to college in a couple of year (I know, they should go for a science-based major not liberal arts), even the most conservative bank would love to loan to us, and it's just not worth the trouble unless we can get a great buy.
 
2011-05-30 05:31:37 PM
Is this the thread where I justify my lifestyle to random strangers? Oh, that's every thread.
 
2011-05-30 05:33:09 PM

cyclebiff: Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.


biff, you sound like a real horse's ass.
 
2011-05-30 05:42:09 PM

mmagdalene: cyclebiff: Cry foal in fark thread in attempt to gain sympathy.

biff, you sound like a real horse's ass.


Lmao :)
 
2011-05-30 05:44:36 PM
It's a good thing I only plan on buying a home as opposed to a house.
 
2011-05-30 05:47:44 PM

rmoody: Buying a house is great if you're planning on never moving and keeping the same secure, stable job for twenty+ years.


BEARSBEARSBEARS.JPG

/good luck with that sh*t
 
2011-05-30 06:08:29 PM
As usual in a thread like this, lots of good Farking, precious little light.
 
2011-05-30 06:15:39 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Every time this thread gets greened, it's the same thing over and over again. What it all really boils down to though is a bunch of renters thinking that pissing money away every month with absolutely no hope of getting ANY return on that "investment" is somehow the "right" thing do do. Because they are FARKERS, dammit!


It is more than possible to get zero return on your investment when owning a home, as millions of Americans have recently demonstrated.

Renting can be a sensible economic choice in many instances:

You're a recent college grad who is single. Chances are you will not be able to buy a home you'd live in with a future partner and certainly not with future children. You also probably have no deposit so will be buying mortgage insurance. Trading up houses is extremely expensive and you might not break even with the money you might have 'flushed down the drain' if you rented.

If you are in a position where you rent and save for 1 more year you will have enough $$$ to put 20% down and not have to pay mortgage insurance. That 1 year of 'flushing money down the drain' will save you a HEAP of cash in the years to come.

If you, like me, like to travel. In the 8 years since graduating I have lived in four cities on three continents and due to being flexible in where I can move on short notice a huge number of personal and professional opportunities have been available to me that would not have been otherwise.

If you are any person in the US between 2004 and 2007 - buying a house is probably a big mistake.

I'm not saying renting should be viewed as a permanent living arrangement - I'm in the process of moving from renting to owning myself due to a combination of factors - but that for many people buying a house isn't always the best option and it's not always a financial mistake.
 
2011-05-30 06:19:12 PM
Family owns this house. We bought for $87,000 in 1993, it's worth $95,000 at last estimate. Only way this house is getting sold, though, is if both my parents die, and my brother and I BOTH decide we don't want to live here.

Even if I do eventually want to rent out the house, I'm just gonna build myself a house on the back of the lot to live in.

It's not an investment, it's my family's home.
 
2011-05-30 06:29:05 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Anyway, this thread has inspired me to do some math. We bought this house in 1987. Paid 163K for it. It will be paid off next year which the following numbers correspond to.


Now how often is this going to happen for the next generation (able to stay in one place for 24 years)?

That's what's helped to screw up the housing market, and why so many don't buy. In every thread about jobs there are always some morans who spout "move to where the jobs are" to those who explain why they cannot find suitable work, or work at all, and don't take into account that some of those people may be tied to a property they have been paying on for a decade or more before they lost their jobs.

As more and more people adopt a more mobile lifestyle through economic necessity, fewer and fewer people will buy houses until the idea of owning will be but a historical relic of the past, something our great great grandparents did. You were fortunate... most future potential houseowners will never be.
/congrats on the payoff
 
2011-05-30 06:50:22 PM
What about a married guy with a family? Wife and I had no kids for the first 7 years of our marriage and renting was fine. Once our oldest wanted to play outside, it was impossible.

Now we have 2 kids. Renting a 3 bedroom house would cost $1,000/mo, plus utilities. A 3 bedroom apartment in the ghetto would be $850, plus utilities.

The landlord doesn't pay the heat bill, so he has no interest in windows or insulation.

Renting a place that's nice costs $1500/mo.


Sure, I could probably find a "deal" on craigslist but I don't want to live in a place where nothing gets fixed and wake up to find the bank changing the locks because the owner has been pocketing the rent and not paying the mortgage.
 
2011-05-30 06:52:15 PM
Get off my lawn.
img.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-30 07:11:54 PM

Semper Gumby: I love having color in my house. I was tired of boring white walls and neighbors. Tired of renting and being told I can't have a dog.


I've never understood this. Every house I've rented, I've painted. ("Hey, Mr./Ms. Landlord/lady. Can my girlfriend paint this wall $weird_color? We'll agree to put the white paint back when we move out if you don't like the color." "Sure, go for it.")

The idea that you have to own a house in order to paint or drill holes in the wall is just bizarre. Rental property and its upkeep is a giant tax writeoff. The only thing the owner really cares about is getting it back with the same number of walls it had when you moved in. Everything else is negotiable, and I mean everything.

It helps if you avoid managed properties like the plague. Rent only from the owner, ideally one who lives next door.

I love that whenever I have to move away, I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.

Yeah, a lot of people thought that way.
 
2011-05-30 07:22:04 PM
Renting from the owner is OK as long as it isn't either the kid who grew up in the house who won't live there because the neighborhood isn't what he likes, or a prominent business owner in the town. The former kicks you out for his family, the latter doesn't fix anything and gets away with it as enough of the bureaucracy is in his pocket.
 
2011-05-30 07:22:24 PM

Man On Pink Corner: I've never understood this. Every house I've rented, I've painted. ("Hey, Mr./Ms. Landlord/lady. Can my girlfriend paint this wall $weird_color? We'll agree to put the white paint back when we move out if you don't like the color." "Sure, go for it.")

The idea that you have to own a house in order to paint or drill holes in the wall is just bizarre. Rental property and its upkeep is a giant tax writeoff. The only thing the owner really cares about is getting it back with the same number of walls it had when you moved in. Everything else is negotiable, and I mean everything.


I'm in the military, I've moved more frequently than once a year for the last six years. I don't want to put the time and effort into somebody else's house, I don't want one accent wall. I want color surrounding me in every room.

And some people are f*cking nazis about drilling holes in walls. Some houses don't even have proper drywall, like both places I lived in Hawaii. The "walls" were wood dividers.

Not every landlord's a dream. You don't always get to interact directly with them.
 
2011-05-30 07:23:32 PM

Man On Pink Corner: I've never understood this. Every house I've rented, I've painted.


Exactly. Hell, almost every rental property I've had, I've painted and redone the floors. Took it out of the rent, of course.
 
2011-05-30 07:29:52 PM

Semper Gumby: Man On Pink Corner: I've never understood this. Every house I've rented, I've painted. ("Hey, Mr./Ms. Landlord/lady. Can my girlfriend paint this wall $weird_color? We'll agree to put the white paint back when we move out if you don't like the color." "Sure, go for it.")

The idea that you have to own a house in order to paint or drill holes in the wall is just bizarre. Rental property and its upkeep is a giant tax writeoff. The only thing the owner really cares about is getting it back with the same number of walls it had when you moved in. Everything else is negotiable, and I mean everything.

I'm in the military, I've moved more frequently than once a year for the last six years. I don't want to put the time and effort into somebody else's house, I don't want one accent wall. I want color surrounding me in every room.

And some people are f*cking nazis about drilling holes in walls. Some houses don't even have proper drywall, like both places I lived in Hawaii. The "walls" were wood dividers.

Not every landlord's a dream. You don't always get to interact directly with them.


I have had nazi-landlords who wouldn't even let me put tape on the "wood dividers".
Obviously my current landlord doesn't care, as he lets the neighbors drill screws 2 inches through the wall into my room, but it's a habit for me now. I don't put anything on the walls unless I'm using that "no-damage" sticky stuff.
 
2011-05-30 09:15:11 PM

bbcard1: I live in a small/medium market. There is startling gridlock in housing. The sellers aren't willing to come down, they buyers aren't willing to come up...so everything sits with homes often staying on the market for years. We've been looking for a bigger home for a while, but ours is paid for, we start having kids march off to college in a couple of year (I know, they should go for a science-based major not liberal arts), even the most conservative bank would love to loan to us, and it's just not worth the trouble unless we can get a great buy.


Same here. As a buyer, I won't consider the market "recovered" until prices come back down to reasonable levels.
 
2011-05-30 09:47:44 PM

Goimir: DarthBrooks: In other news, it's always a safe bet to try and make money off Americans who think renting is cheaper than owning stuff.

Exactly. When you rent, you pay for whatever it is you're getting, and the owner's lunch as well.

Yes, you pay property tax. It's included in your rent.

Yes, you pay upkeep costs. You pay ALL that stuff.

If landlording wasn't about making money, people wouldn't do it.


Well said.
 
2011-05-30 10:08:00 PM
Suburban nightmare

i.imgur.com
 
2011-05-30 10:15:36 PM

rico567: As usual in a thread like this, lots of good Farking, precious little light.


The only "light" I can offer is to hold out as long as you can in your position, and either you'll become eligible for housing assistance, or housing assistance dollars will dry up and rents will become reasonable again. When that happens being a slumlord won't be as profitable, and housing costs will come down as they get out of that business.

/subsidies break free markets
 
2011-05-30 10:19:21 PM

Goimir: /subsidies break free markets


Why do we then subsidize oil and corn then?

In addition to subsidies, I'd add speculation to that list. People driving up/down prices in commodities they won't directly consume also breaks free markets. e.g. oil, citrus, housing.
 
2011-05-30 10:23:15 PM

cyclebiff:
Solution:
Stop being retards.
Stop buying big and living big (learn efficiency and quality).
Stop procreating.
Start listening to other cultures OUTSIDE your country. Embrace them.
Go back to school and educate yourself on something that will contribute to humanity.


I've been to every continent but Antarctica; ironically, the U.S. is one of the better cultures on the planet for absorbing facets of other cultures.

You can go back to being hip now.
 
2011-05-30 10:39:34 PM

lohphat: Why do we then subsidize oil and corn then?

In addition to subsidies, I'd add speculation to that list. People driving up/down prices in commodities they won't directly consume also breaks free markets. e.g. oil, citrus, housing.


I don't know why. I'm against that too.
 
2011-05-30 11:15:53 PM
Here's the deal.

I can load myself up with debt and lock myself to an area for years. Or, I could rent for less than the cost of a mortgage, and move where I want when I need to.

I see the houses people buy, and I DO NOT WANT the crappy little suburban cookie-cutter house on 1/8 acre that will fall apart in 15 years.

Because you don't just have a mortgage. You have insurance. You have wads of interest. You have to repair your own house (better pray it's not a lemon, like the usual suburban slap-it-up junkwads).

I *appreciate* the idea of owning my own house. But until the mortgage goes away, you just are a renter from the bank, and they aren't very good landlord.

Me, I'd rather live in holes until I can buy a house on some land for cash... no debt, and in an area I *want* to die in.
 
2011-05-30 11:17:22 PM
Back in my day houses were something you bought to live in and a place to put your stuff.
 
2011-05-30 11:38:56 PM
Home ownership is a damn good idea. But like most good ideas, it might not fit your individual needs.

Home ownership is a really bad idea if you are likely to move out the local area rather soon.

Home ownership is a really bad idea if you can't afford the mortgage. (And any variable rate mortgage is probably a bad idea and if it could go to a rate you can't afford then it is an stupid idea and indeed is quackery.)

Home ownership is not a good idea if you need someone else to do all the maintenance for you.

Home ownership is a very bad idea if the only damn reason you are in it is market speculation or in a belief that the only way value can go -- even in the short term -- is up. You own houses to like in first and foremost. Yeah they can be great as long term investments (assuming you keep up the place), but are just too risky in the short term.

Home ownership is a very bad idea if you paid more than the house is worth. If market values are going up too fast and the fundamentals are not sound, then a correction can be expected.

Other than all those caveats, it can still be a great value. My mortgage + taxes + insurance + upkeep are far less than I could rent (and the living space is larger). As I have lived in the same house since 1999, this has saved my huge sums of money. And as I live in an area that has not nearly as hard hit by the bubble as most places, the increase in the value of the house exceeds what I have paid on the mortgage.
 
2011-05-30 11:48:41 PM
That article was unreadably pointless. Seriously, I couldn't make out WTF point or observation the author was trying to make. Stands to "Reason.com", I suppose.

Whatever.

/Oh, you still have a mortgage?
 
2011-05-30 11:59:21 PM

Semper Gumby: chu2dogg: If your using only a third of the house your rent should be a third of the mortgage. Go on craigslist and you'll find loads of homeowners willing to rent at a loss just to lower their own expenses.

You're still talking about sharing space or renting a room, not a whole apartment or house.

I refuse to share space with roommates that aren't the person I'm sleeping with on a regular basis. What a farking nightmare.


Oh I hear you, renting is not for everybody, just like owning is not for everyone.

Personally I like having roomates, I've met alot of cool people that way, and I would get lonely watching TV by myself on like a tuesday night or something. Even just hearing people around in the next room, or if they're having crazy sex we get a laugh out of it the next day.

I don't need alot of space for my stuff. I'm single and in my 20s. I can live pretty good for >$500 per mo, which even if I got a crappy one bedroom condo in my area I would be looking at least $900 or so. Multiply that by a few years and the savings add up.

Sure if I rented that condo I would pay $1200 per mo, but I'm not renting that condo, I'm scaling down as much as possible and renting at $500. Sure, I don't have a garden or a yoga center or a home gym or anything like that because I'm honestly not home enough to enjoy that stuff anyways.

So, I'll take that $400 per mo and throw it in my E-Trade account, and maybe when I hit my 30s and know I'm going to settle down in area for awhile, then I'll have a sizeable down payment and get an even better house with a better mortgage rate. I'll come out ahead of whatever that condo would give me after all the closing costs and don't have to worry if this is a "good year" to sell. And laugh all you want at the market but my portfolio is up.
 
2011-05-31 12:20:27 AM

Ragingwookiee: I'm closing on a short sale this Friday (maybe) so I'm getting a kick out of all the replies.


I just closed on a short sale this past Friday, and I, too, am getting a kick out of these replies. I just want to say: good luck. There was some drama with 28 hours until the close of escrow, and I caved and brought an additional $2500 to the table.

If you make it to Friday without being arrested for strangling someone involved the the deal, you either have great self control or you're highly-skilled at evading capture, possibly a ninja.
 
2011-05-31 12:58:26 AM

rmoody: Buying a house is great if you're planning on never moving and keeping the same secure, stable job for twenty+ years.


It's great if it works.

I own, and will pay off my 15-yr mortgage in 5 1/2 years, and recently started my long-desired, great secure job with awesome benefits as a humble public servant where I plan to stay until I retire in 20 years, God willing. Oh, and it's two blocks away from home and I walk to work in the awesomely beautiful Southern California morning nearly every day.

So it works for me.
 
2011-05-31 02:20:05 AM
Of course if you live in an area like i did where half the populace is Section 8, the other half is military with paid stipend and people realize they can charge for rent whatever the hell they feel like, buying is a good idea. Seriously, noisy ass 1 bedroom apartments, $600-800 a month. 3 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood? $320 a month. Yeah, even with ownership expenses I still made out like a bandit.

/then I moved and rented it out for an exorbitant amount.
 
2011-05-31 02:34:02 AM

mekkab: I hate sharing walls with anyone. I seriously do not want to farking hear you. Apartments/Condo/Townhouse are all out.


www.survivinggrady.com
 
2011-05-31 04:39:34 AM
It seems like for most of you, the decision to rent or own was a straightforward one. I can't figure out whether it's better for us to own or rent. We've always rented. We're moving in a month to a totally different part of the country. We don't know how long we'll be there - at least a year, maybe 5 years, maybe forever (hope not). We won't know for years, either, whether we'll be staying. Rent is inflated in that city because it's a college town and everyone wants to rent (but no one wants to buy). Housing prices are a little lower than in other cities for that reason and because it's not near the coast (big difference in price here). We've been renters FOREVER because of frequent moving with grad school, work transfers, etc.

We have enough saved to buy a small place in cash (no mortgage) - but it would be a small 1 bedroom apartment, not a house or anything. (No smaller than the place we'd rent, if we rented.) If we did buy, though, and then moved and tried to sell it and couldn't, we wouldn't have enough to buy someplace else, even for a down payment.

I have no idea what to do. Probably just keep renting and losing money because we're afraid of the next job transfer. I'm jealous of all of you with your stable jobs in one place who can buy your houses and plan for the future. We actually want to own because we hate renting, but we move so farking much.
 
2011-05-31 06:47:59 AM
If you have enough to buy it outright, then you have enough to put 50% down and have a tiny mortgage. Since rents are high in that college town, why not buy something you can rent out for more than the cost of the mortgage. Keep half your nest egg ready for the next house (if ever needed) and repairs/maintenance. Yur situation seems like the ideal one for buying - you have money saved to keep yourselves from being house-poor, and in that town, the right place may actually be a good investment. Research!
 
2011-05-31 07:53:57 AM
So let me get this straight... Owning a house is dumb BUT people need a place to live so owning LOTS of houses is smart?

Common sense suggests subby and article are dumb.
 
2011-05-31 08:21:13 AM
Most people would enjoy owning their own home rather than renting, but in this market it could burn you to own if you had to suddenly move out of town or lost your job.

At this point I prefer to live in really nice cities, and get together enough friends to rent out a house, and treat my bedroom as a studio apartment. Nothing beats living in a Seattle home for $300 a month. Roommates suck but whatever.

Renting and owning is different for each individual. If you love your city, love your job, never plan to move, and have kids and a dog, why the hell would you rent? If you live in a shiat city at the only local company and plan to leave in a few years, why would you buy in this market?

There are a lot of people who got seriously burned in the housing downturn, so do your homework to get a house you can afford with good resale value.
 
2011-05-31 08:31:01 AM
Yeeeessss...sheeple, listen to the hipsters.

Owning real property is totally dumb, buy disposable things...rent what you need...

So, I guess the landlord that OWNS the property that you are paying for with your rent must be the SUPER-dumb one. I mean, all you're doing is renting (free as can be!!)...He has to own the place, which is...like...hard and junk....collecting all that rent money and stuff.
 
2011-05-31 10:23:00 AM

heidi girl: It seems like for most of you, the decision to rent or own was a straightforward one. I can't figure out whether it's better for us to own or rent. We've always rented. We're moving in a month to a totally different part of the country. We don't know how long we'll be there - at least a year, maybe 5 years, maybe forever (hope not). We won't know for years, either, whether we'll be staying. Rent is inflated in that city because it's a college town and everyone wants to rent (but no one wants to buy). Housing prices are a little lower than in other cities for that reason and because it's not near the coast (big difference in price here). We've been renters FOREVER because of frequent moving with grad school, work transfers, etc.

We have enough saved to buy a small place in cash (no mortgage) - but it would be a small 1 bedroom apartment, not a house or anything. (No smaller than the place we'd rent, if we rented.) If we did buy, though, and then moved and tried to sell it and couldn't, we wouldn't have enough to buy someplace else, even for a down payment.

I have no idea what to do. Probably just keep renting and losing money because we're afraid of the next job transfer. I'm jealous of all of you with your stable jobs in one place who can buy your houses and plan for the future. We actually want to own because we hate renting, but we move so farking much.


Never buy when moving to a new place. Period. You don't know the area and can be getting into all kinds of trouble. I personally would never buy in a place I hadn't lived in for at least a year first.
 
2011-05-31 10:26:55 AM
If people at reason think it is a dumb idea it is probably a f*cking awesome idea.
 
2011-05-31 11:07:08 AM

GoBadgers: Get off my lawn.


Hello, hillbilly.
 
2011-05-31 01:01:50 PM

dr.zaeus: GoBadgers: Get off my lawn.

Hello, hillbilly.


Hello!
10 minutes to New Glarus (and the brewery), 40 minutes to the state capitol in Madison, and plenty of elbow room for bonfire parties with a band, riding horses or my quad on the trails. If that's being a hillbilly, I wouldn't want it any other way!
:^)
 
2011-05-31 01:51:12 PM
CSB time:

My grandfather dies a week before his 87th birthday.

He was a lifelong Republican, owned several restaurants (including a gay bar in the '60s I just found out), and dies with four girlfriends -- all half his age -- mourning in the front row of the church (my grandmother dies 22 years earlier). I am not worthy of his legacy.

He never owned property.

Why? He wanted his freedom to move around.

However, that freedom came with a price. He was lucky to be healthy and work doing things he liked up until the brain tumor diagnosis which incapacitated him and then killed him 5 months hence.

Because he had essentially no assets, it was the state that had to take care of his needs as Medicare and MediCal could not cover the full costs of the treatments or afford him nursing home care except at the scummiest place they could find. I was too young to have a salary to really help and my father was scraping by too due to a medical retirement fro man on the job injury with wife #2 bleeding him dry via 25K of CCard debt. The best my dad could do was basically pay his rent because they shared a rented duplex for the last 10 years of his life.

How bootstrappy of him. When the going got tough he had to fall back on state services to keep him alive and comfortable.

If he had owned a house in the area in SoCal (which he really never left for 50 years) we would have had equity and the ability to have a comfortable last few years without essentially being indigent.

The moral of the story is that if the market can support it and you're not that mobile, then buy. It is an insurance policy that allows you to draw on an asset when you need it most.
 
2011-05-31 04:49:54 PM

hipcheckgrl: I'm pretty dumb and I don't own a home. Well, I mean, technically I guess I do because I'm still on the mortgage of the house I gave the husband in our divorce...how dumb is that?


...um...yeah, I have no words. Why wouldn't you force him to refi or sell? Seems to me you left a big "what if" cloud hanging over you if he should ever stop paying on that thing.....that is if you're indeed on the "loan" and not just the "title". The title you can Quit Claim Deed off of, the loan.....unfortunately it's refi or sell...
 
2011-05-31 07:02:30 PM

btraz70: The title you can Quit Claim Deed off of, the loan.....unfortunately it's refi or sell...


If it's an asset of value, why would you do a quit claim and walk away from it if not under court order to do so?
 
2011-05-31 09:15:24 PM

Semper Gumby: I love having color in my house. I was tired of boring white walls and neighbors. Tired of renting and being told I can't have a dog.

I love that whenever I have to move away, I'm going to recoup all of the money that I've been paid for housing every month, instead of just tossing it to the breeze.


No, you're not. Interest will eat you alive, though you do get a nice tax deduction.
 
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