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(Some Guy)   What our founding fathers had to say about guns and freedom   ( divider line
    More: Interesting  
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6335 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2001 at 10:42 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

491 Comments     (+0 »)

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2001-10-24 10:45:04 AM  
They should have just summed it all up with...

2001-10-24 10:45:27 AM  
I thought it was based on "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out."?
2001-10-24 10:49:02 AM  
Guns guns guns guns guns guns shoot people yahh yeah yeah yeah violence is what we need yeah! Wooooo hoooo boy can't wait can't wait....
2001-10-24 10:49:57 AM  
Oh, boy. I can't wait to read the comments on this thread... Any bets on how long it'll take before someone mentions Columbine High, or calls somebody else here a Redneck or Nazi? This should be fun. :)
2001-10-24 10:53:21 AM  
Guns don't kill people...Founding Fathers kill people!
2001-10-24 10:53:47 AM  
Let There Be Guns by "The Arrogant Worms."

One, two, three, four...

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?
There'd be no more crime, 'cause everybody'd have a gun!
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?
We wouldn't need the police no more, 'cause everybody'd have a gun!
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun? (had a gun)
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun? (had a gun)
Nobody'd ever get shot, 'cause everybody'd have a gun! (Makes sense!)
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

We could go out and shoot things
We could go out and shoot things
We could go out and shoot things
We could go out and shoot things
We could go out and shoot things
We could go out and shoot things
We'd all feel safe, 'cause everybody'd have a gun!

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun? (had a gun)
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun? (had a gun)
Everyone'd be equal, 'cause everybody'd have a gun!
Not me, I got me a rifle!
Well hang on, if you got yourself a rifle then I wanna get me a semi-automatic weapon!
You get a semi-automatic weapon and I'm gonna want an automatic weapon!
You get yourself an automatic weapon, I'm gonna get a super-automatic weapon!
Well if you get a super-automatic weapon, then I'm gonna get a super-duper-automatic weapon with a CD-ROM drive!
If you get yourself one of those I'm gonna get a
super-duper-automatic weapon with a CD-ROM drive, and a big old hard drive, and a big guitar amp so I can play BTOs...
(rants on while the rest of the Worms sing)

Wouldn't it be great if everybody had the weapon of their choice?
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had the weapon of their choice?
Wouldn't it be great if everybody had a gun?

(Still ranting..)
I'll go so fast I'll be able to chase you from here to Saigon, and then I'll shoot like little Nerf rockets at you and poke you in the eye 'cause it'll have automatic like finger-poking in the eye things and I'll get myself another guitar amp...
2001-10-24 10:54:14 AM  
Did they means arms, as in the appendages. I agree with that- chicks with bare arms are a turn-on.

Who has a 9mm and I thinks they'll be able to take over the government with it.
2001-10-24 10:56:44 AM  
Who has a 9mm and thinks they'll be able to take over the government with it?
Maybe if they had an assault rifle they could attack the White House for a few minutes before they're shot.
2001-10-24 10:56:52 AM  
Some Guy: I think you're a Redneck Nazi Columbine High alumni!
2001-10-24 10:59:16 AM  
"J&G Arms Sales, LTD"? Well, at least the quotes weren't compiled by someone who might be BIASED!!!!
2001-10-24 11:00:39 AM  
ok, i'll start it.

i think people are stupid. i don't want people to have the ability to kill me and many others quickly from a window. i don't want anyone to walk into my office spraying death everywhere. i don't want the guy at the 7eleven to get his head pulverized by a 9mm slug...

that said- guns are here to stay. the fanatics will have it no other way, and they have enough political clout to keep it that way. all we need to do is make it as hard as possible for dangerous people to get guns. psych checks, background checks, low set ears or low brows... you name it... and yes, i think gun control works. look at the numbers in the UK concerning gun related violence.

i say let everyone have pepper spray and a musket. i could live with that. advocating everyone having an ak47 or some equivalent murder machine is stupid. amazingly stupid.

eat me, and good night.
2001-10-24 11:03:40 AM  
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson Papers (C.J. Boyd, Ed. 1950)

This explains a lot about the government's great enthusiasm in gun control laws.
2001-10-24 11:03:40 AM  
Resisting the impulse to engage in argument, let me just recommend this book for a recitation and analysis of the statistics revolving around gun ownership and use: More Guns, Less Crime. Not that I expect it to convince anyone who's already formed an opinion, but at least it's there in case you'd like to know.
2001-10-24 11:03:58 AM  
The founding fathers were refering to guns that were muskets. Technology has changed the world, and not always for the better. The founding fathers knew that times would change, and that government policy would have to change with it. Thats what amendments are all about.

Many of the founding fathers had slaves, too. Does that mean their attitude and behavior applies now? Certianly Not.
2001-10-24 11:04:27 AM  
Some One then they'll equate gun ownership with penis size (or lack thereof)

i like guns, i own guns...i'm not a fanatic, i'm just a fan.
2001-10-24 11:04:44 AM  
Go Thomas Jefferson! We spend most of our time ranting about a few people who go nuts....It has been happening since the beginning of time. Lets outlaw guns and then try to assert a military force. The way things are going now, we could have terrorist developments right here at home. I WILL be prepared if it does come to that. I have every right to protect my family, and I can't see where a fly swatter would do me much good against those that already ignore the laws.
2001-10-24 11:05:09 AM  
Can't remember... do we still live in the 1700's? Are we still foraging and fighting the English?
2001-10-24 11:05:10 AM  
One of the best arguements against universal gun ownership I've ever heard:

Imagine the biggest idiot you've ever known, be it the guy who cut you off in traffic, the woman who blathers on her cell phone while blocking the aisle at the store, or everyone who almost made the "Darwin Awards." Now imagine them armed.
2001-10-24 11:09:45 AM  
Philthpig: not to attempt to argue with you but people should look at the UK's rates of Hot Breakins (breakins where the residents are home) and the injurys/deaths associated with them. The rates in the Uk are MUCH higher then here in the states, the reason is that a burgler knows that most likely he will run into an unarmed person if he breaks in and therefore is more likely to take the risk of entering the house when someone is likely to be there. at least here we have them wondering if they will run into MR 12guage while there are walking out with my property ounce of prevention pound of cure type thing.
2001-10-24 11:10:10 AM  
I'm buying my first gun next month. My boyfriend says it's a magnum something. You can call me stupid, just don't do it to my face :)~
2001-10-24 11:10:24 AM  
Captured Japanese officers cited only one reason that Japan did not invade the U.S.: an armed populace.
2001-10-24 11:10:58 AM  
Usually people opposed to firearms have had no formal training or experience with them, they weren't raised around them, and as a result, are scared of them. Just like anything else people don't understand. Of course, paranoid media also contributes to that. I'd laugh my ass off if those same people's houses were broken into in the middle of the night (yes, by someone armed probably) and they had nothing to defend themselves with except a TV remote. What about the people who've been "traumatized" or "directly negatively effected" by firearms and that's why they dislike them? Well, that's about as ridiculous as saying you hate cars because you had a wreck in one and you'll never use one because of it. Fools.
2001-10-24 11:11:45 AM  
"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson Papers (C.J. Boyd, Ed. 1950)

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." Sara Brady, Chairman, Handgun Control, The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." Bill Clinton (USA TODAY, 11 March 1993, page 2A)

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ... Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms." --V.I. Lenin.

J777D Its about the people resisting tyranny with weapons not one person going up against a tank with a 9mm. All the high tech equipment in the world will not stop an armed majority of determined people willing to fight for freedom. If your views are so right then why are you scared of an armed people? Convince them with words not with a large government stepping all over them.
2001-10-24 11:11:53 AM  
I still find it quaint that people think that keeping an assault weapon in their closet will allow them to overthrow the US government if they feel like it's stepping on their toes. We are talking about a government that has military technology that the militia redneck can't begin to fathom--a government that has chemical weapons, stealth fighters, spy satellites, precision bombs, bunker busters, tanks o' plenty, aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons, special forces, etc... Yes, Jim Bob, that shotgun is going to save your ass from that UN conspiracy.
2001-10-24 11:12:36 AM  
sorry but alot of what was posted on that site is correct.

The only way to enslave people is to disarm them.
2001-10-24 11:13:36 AM  
yay! Fark has gone right wing!!
2001-10-24 11:13:57 AM  
Oh...and there was this other guy I remember hearing about who was in favor of gun control...I think his name was...oh yeah, HITLER. Yeah, that'll work ban guns. Then, ban cars, airplanes, box cutter knives, envelopes because they can send Anthrax, what else....pencils in schools because they can stab people. Fuq, get over it.
2001-10-24 11:15:34 AM  
Ya know, with all the gun control laws already on the books, what good has it done? I can literally walk about 1/4 mile west of my house and buy one on the corner. No background checks, waiting periods, etc... - and they are much cheaper!

What good do the laws really do? Seems to me all the gun control laws accomplish is placating the public under the illusion the government is doing something about it, and keep them out of the hands of the citezenry intended to have them under the bill o rights.

Sure, you can have the guy who goes nutzo and begins shooting people in the shopping mall - but if many of the people shopping there also had guns, how many shots would he get off as opposed to the mall being full of unarmed people (Including security! How many rent-a-cops have guns that you have seen?)

Guns are so prolific here that attempting to control them is an impossible task for the government and needs to be placed in the hands of the citizens, i.e. gun control = aiming straight and true.

I will never own a registered weapon, just in case they decide to come and take them all away from us one day like the aussies did a few years back.
2001-10-24 11:15:49 AM  
Henchman: I'm imagining this idiot now..

..oops, shot him.
2001-10-24 11:16:20 AM  
Fark has had a very vocal right wing sector for a long long long time. Its not a new thing ;p
2001-10-24 11:16:36 AM  
Muskets were the "assault" weaponss of their day. Sarah Brady and her pulltoy have done more to increase and revitalize gun sales than all the crime statistics. Gun ownership is a right.
A*sholes who abuse them should be shot. God, guns and guts will protect and save the US not one bit of the left's whiny, save us from ourselves, Kumbaya, coke song swilling described Utopia of free sex and nickel beer. Wait a minute...
2001-10-24 11:18:39 AM  
Hmmmm. Just my two cents but the best argument for guns sounds rather cliche, if guns are outlawed only oulaws will have guns. Did outlawing drugs suddenly wipe our country free from crack, coke, heroin, etc? I'm sure that if I had the desire I could find someonte to sell me drugs in less than an hour (fortunately I don't). So, if someone wants to go blow someones head off, do you think an "amendment" will stop them? Look at how well prohibition blew over.

Anyway, just my two cents. I am sure that guns aren't going away anytime soon...
2001-10-24 11:18:41 AM  
The problem with outlawing guns is that when they are outlawed, then only the criminals will have them. Who's going to stop them when they go on a rampage and there are no police around? Or, who's going to stop the criminal that breaks into my home at night and murders me and my family? I'll tell you that right now, anyone that breaks into my house while I'm is going to be in for a big surprise, several of them actually, in the form of .45 inch holes in his chest!

As for "assault rifles" and automatic weapons, I don't think they should be legal. These are for the military and authorities to control. They have NOTHING to do with what I view my rights of gun ownership are. But, if you think you are going to take my shotguns, rifles, and pistols away from me, you have another thing coming. You are damn right I can get fanatical about that because I am fanatical about freedom.
2001-10-24 11:19:57 AM  
The English, Canadians and Australians don't have guns. Oh yeah, but they were taken over by evil dictatorships who are out to end English, Canadian and Australian sovereignty by giving up their power to the United Nations and the World Trade Organization. I hear they are just littered with concentration camps these days. Say one word against John Howard and it's death for you!
2001-10-24 11:21:27 AM  
Personally I think someone should dig up the graves of the founding fathers to check on them. My theory is they have been constantly rolling over in them for many many years, The U.S. government has grown into a system where the people are not represented as was the initial plan, now politicians all have their own agendas and don't seem to care about any of the people that elected them to office.

I believe everyone has a right to own any form of weaponry they desire, even weapons of mass destruction, how else are we supposed to go to war with our own government should the need arise?
2001-10-24 11:23:29 AM  
World Citizen : Don't worry, We'll protect you even if you still don't get it.
2001-10-24 11:23:33 AM  
ok. lenin and hitler didn't like guns... how about every other world leader that supports gun control? how about every other country on the planet where you can't walk into a pawn shop and pick up a rifle?

is there some form of genocide being carried out in japan that i forgot about?

get you heads out of your asses! just because you think you're responsible enough to own a gun meant to kill people, doesn't mean you need to advocate that as a way of life for the average moron!

joe dumbass isn't going to help when all of the police officers and all of our elected officials and all of the big companies swarm down on the average american in that big new tyranical government that the right wingers think will one day enslave us if we have gun control... as a matter of fact- after typing that i realize how amazingly paranoid the average right winger is... another reason for gun control- the gun advocates are paranoid and stupid.
2001-10-24 11:24:07 AM  
Oh yeah, and I almost forgot. When I was in Sydney, I was terrified for my life. My god, the crime in the streets of Sydney made Washington, New Orleans, and Gary, Indiana look like the safest places in the world. If only I could have been armed to defend myself, I might have not been anally raped right next to the Opera House.
2001-10-24 11:24:46 AM  
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." Bill Clinton (USA TODAY, 11 March 1993, page 2A)

What the hell is that supposed to mean?
2001-10-24 11:25:02 AM  
Paranoia is a healthy thing.
2001-10-24 11:25:11 AM  
There are examples of having guns actually reducing crime. Take the example of Kennesaw Ga, which in 1982 required every household to own a gun. After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. Don't believe it? Follow this:

2001-10-24 11:25:21 AM  
I wanna know what our great founding fathers had to say about blacks, and rights of women.

... some of the stuff they said back then sees pretty stupid now.
2001-10-24 11:25:30 AM  
The "Right To Bear Arms" is misinterpreted. It is not in the constitution to allow any Tom, Dick, Ike or Bubba to keep an automatic rifle just for the hell of it. It was put in there to say that every citizen has the right to engage as part of the military to defend America from exterior or interior agressors. And stuff.
2001-10-24 11:25:49 AM  
Guns. I don't own one; I don't want to own one. BUT, when the government tells me I CAN'T own one, that's when I start worrying.
2001-10-24 11:27:04 AM  
Philthpig: Paranoid to the teeth. There could be one positive here though. Highly armed idiots are more likely to kill themselves, each other, and their genetic offspring. Darwinian cleansing.
2001-10-24 11:30:29 AM  
Hey phil, are you aware that the (US)police are not required to respond to your (or any) call for help, and in fact you have no recourse if they dont.. Ask the people whos homes and businesses were destroyed in the LA riots if they would have been better off armed.
2001-10-24 11:32:33 AM  
Governments do not trust people. Governments oppose gun ownership. Governments cannot protect people and property.
Guns do. Pretty simple. Gun control people are naive, simplistic and scared. Go live in Japan,Australia,Canada or Europe, y'all keeping promising to move because of how bad it is over here but you never do. Why?
2001-10-24 11:34:04 AM  
Badger: I did a google search for "Kennesaw GA Mandatory Gun Law" and I got ONE page, and that one only came up because one of the posters was from there. I smell an urban legend.
2001-10-24 11:35:12 AM  
I want to know more about my right to arm bears.
2001-10-24 11:36:34 AM  
Why is this thing even up? It's not really news, it's not really current..

Oh, and why is it compelling what people are quoted as saying? Isn't that why they wrote it down in the constitution and the bill of rights? We don't make rules based on what politicians say, we make rules based on the laws they collectively write..

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