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(mycfnow.com)   Proposed patriotism law has Florida Rep. asking 'What's next? We pass a bill that says you have to tattoo a flag on your butt?'   (mycfnow.com) divider line 214
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4374 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2001 at 10:39 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



214 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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JMT
2001-10-24 11:40:36 AM  
If you force everyone to be patriotic, how do we know who to trust?
 
2001-10-24 11:41:29 AM  
Just curious, but what about non-American (born shortly before their parents emigrated to the USA) kids at those schools?
 
2001-10-24 11:42:26 AM  
It's time for some RE NEDUCATION

Let the hooks do their work..
 
2001-10-24 11:42:55 AM  
Get on it Midgettossa!!!!! Preach it! :)
 
2001-10-24 11:44:43 AM  
DizzyBunny: Well I had a little celebration last night regardless!
 
2001-10-24 11:45:14 AM  
Appie Appie you should know better than to ask a question like that. Some one is just gonna say "well if they don't like, they just can F'#)$!" back to where they came from."
 
2001-10-24 11:45:24 AM  
wheres my 40 acres and a mule jack!

white devils.
 
2001-10-24 11:46:58 AM  
Hands up all those who've been arrested for cannabis posession anyway. Americans don't count because their laws are crap.
 
2001-10-24 11:49:35 AM  
Fat Tulip: I submitted a link to the pot story, but it got rejected. The server told me it had already been submitted and deleted.

How 'bouts a flag tatooed on a boobie? Would that get a salute?
 
2001-10-24 11:49:50 AM  
Flamebait,
But they can't go back (for whatever reason) and their younger brother/sister was born in the USA and has therefor American citizenship.
I am not asking what someone is just going to say, but what the law says about that. And frankly I can understand a non-American kid refusing to pledge alegiance to the flag of a country that is not his.
 
2001-10-24 11:50:45 AM  
I salute boobies, with or without flags
 
2001-10-24 11:51:26 AM  
And Flamebait, I am indeed baiting you and others.
 
2001-10-24 11:52:10 AM  
Cookie for Appie.
 
2001-10-24 11:55:56 AM  
Goddamn right, Midgettosa. I'm about as Indian as Manifest Destiny, but I hate the fact that I'm here because of what happened to the native americans.

Hey, think I could get away with stealing some white man's house because my God told me to do it?
 
2001-10-24 11:59:17 AM  
I love America!!! We now put more priority on forcing the love of America than we do, making sure our kids are very well educated.

Now kids I know that there is 40 to a classroom here, and that this building is basically condemned and that our teaching material is outdated to say the best. But now you have to stand up and appreciate this country no matter what! Freedom is something that you must lose!
 
2001-10-24 12:20:13 PM  
Manda-

A situation like that sounded like you should have contacted the ACLU. It sounded very rife with rights violations, and the ACLU is good at giving schools the smackdown, or serving them with papers about violating your rights.
 
2001-10-24 12:23:21 PM  
Heh. Midgeettosa, would that be similar to the lie Israel also lives under? (Not to start a fire or anything, but it had to be said)
 
2001-10-24 12:25:44 PM  
Whats wrong with standing for the pledge of allegiance?
Don't like it move away or home school.
There should also be a law stating, you want to move here, fine...Learn english. This is an English speaking Country, not Spanish, even though it's unfortunatly going that route. Don't like it Move.
 
2001-10-24 12:26:34 PM  
Why should I pledge allegience to a country that I think is the worst country in every way
 
2001-10-24 12:30:41 PM  
Well then Spitzel, why dont you move to Singapore or something where they will cane you for less...
 
2001-10-24 12:51:40 PM  
Why do people always go for symbolism instead of substance? Forcing young urchins to stand while their classmates blindly takes oaths to their country is supposed to make them more patriotic? Here is a novel idea, why not teach them something about their country and their rights, let them develop their own patriotism. Might work!
 
2001-10-24 12:52:09 PM  
"Worst country in every way"? Yeesh, you don't know many other countries do you?

The US of A might not be the BEST country around, but it is FAR FAR FAR from the worst.. I'd say, overall, the best countries (from what I've read - never lived there) are probably the socialistic places like Sweden and Norway.. But what do I know, never been there.

I don't really like this law, but it will probably get struck down by the supreme court eventually. The SC has been pretty good about such things in the last couple decades, I think.

Oh yeah, and just to throw in a random thought: FREE PELTIER :P
 
2001-10-24 12:52:57 PM  
Manda: Regardless of what everyone thinks, you *cannot* be forced to stand for or say the PoA or even the national anthem. The Supreme Court has ruled that yes, students do have First Amendment rights (they don't have very many other rights, though), and they have specifically ruled in cases such as yours that it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to punish the student for not standing.

I would've sued the shiτ out of any teacher that tried to pull that crap with me if I had been in your situation.
 
2001-10-24 01:02:12 PM  
Simpman76-

This isn't exactly a English-speaking country.. as we are a melting pot of many cultures, we as a nation speak a multitude of languages.. we _are_ a spanish-speaking country, a german-speaking country (Pennsylvania Dutch and Mennonite communities), a Polish speaking country (Chicago is the largest Polish city in the world, greater Polish population than Warsaw or Krackow), a French-Speaking country (Louisiana Bayous), a cournicopia of Native American languages (unfortunately, as an astute Onion article pointed out, more people now probably speak Klingon than Cherokee), plus Hawai'ian, Italian, Portugese, Hungarian, and a plethora of others. To say that the US is an English speaking country just because English is the "official" language and the language spoken by the majority is as shortsighted as calling the US a "white" country because "white" people outnumber the "brown" people.
 
bug
2001-10-24 01:04:22 PM  
there's alot more crap in this world to be against then spending 1 minute showing some respect for your country & the people who have defended it
 
2001-10-24 01:04:42 PM  
I was very lucky- I decided to stop saying the pledge in third grade or so. Don't think being *forced* to pledge to a symbol was all that patriotic really. And that 'under god' crap. I have my own spiritual beliefs but they have nothing to do with the flag, or my alligience to my country and this part of the oath has no place in a public school. Didn't have to much trouble from my teachers though. They were pissy, but there were quite a few Jehovah's Wittnesses in the school who refused to pledge on religious grounds....
Which makes me wonder, if someone will not participate on religious grounds, which you can not infringe upon under the 1st amendment of course, then can you really force someone to stand? Say what you will but making someone stand and cover their heart is definitly forced participation.

Ultimatly, yes I think the Supreme Court will knock this down. Or at least I hope they do (the same court that overruled democracy for beaurocratic expediency in the election has lost a lot of my trust--wait and see I guess.)
 
2001-10-24 01:07:33 PM  
telling children that they have to say, or stand for, a pledge of loyalty to a country that may not be theirs, under a god that they may not believe in, is hardly teaching tolerance or respect for others

i would think that tolerance and respect are far more important to teach to children of all nationalities - including americans
 
bug
2001-10-24 01:14:01 PM  
Bijou,

there was one word i didn't like in your last comment so therefore i won't continue reading it.

btw, the word was "that"
 
2001-10-24 01:14:32 PM  
Weeee..

Stupid Comment goes to Spitzel...If you do live in the US, why? If I am somewhere or in a situation that I think is shiat, I try to get out of that situation.

Oh, and I can't wait until they pass a law to make us buy only USA brands...to support our country! Soon my toyota truck will be outlawed or some other tomfoolery. I am all for people showing they're support for they're country and all, but forcing to do so is retarded.
 
2001-10-24 01:18:02 PM  
bug: i wasn't talking to you anyway
 
2001-10-24 01:30:09 PM  
Is not saying the pledge of allegiance a form of idol worship? Being that, the old testament god would have to whoop your ass with a pillar of flame and then Moses would have to put you to the sword.

Personally, I feel that if you make a child stand, then you are violating his right of choice. I stopped saying the pledge in high school. I didn't think that the government or country deserved my allegiance then, and I sure as hell don't think they deserve it now.

BAAA BAAA, I will leave the flock to their selves.
 
2001-10-24 01:42:22 PM  
MrTuffPaws- I am pretty sure that is the reason that Jehovahs Witnesses will not take pledge, and can not be forced to.

"i would think that tolerance and respect are far more important to teach to children of all nationalities - including americans" Bijou, I wishiat were so. What's going on now is less patriotism and more about nationalism (really the only difference between the two is who's doing it-- 'we are patriotic, they are nationalist, facist, etc."). I really hope people wake up before the bill of rights is completely shot down for the sake of 'patriotism' and 'safety'.
 
2001-10-24 01:43:47 PM  
haha- i meant --wishiat-- but i forgot my space so the filter gave me wishiat
 
2001-10-24 01:44:30 PM  
ack! I swear I put in the space that time! damn it!
 
2001-10-24 01:51:54 PM  
Gumpus: Not sure, fill me in.
 
2001-10-24 01:57:08 PM  
The real irony here is that the pledge was written by a SOCIALIST Minister in the late 1890's...

"I pledge allegiance to MY flag, and to the republic for which it stands, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"

Then in 1923 at the American Flag Conference the Daughters of the American Revolution and the American Legion petititioned and had it changed to:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"

THEN in 1954<---McCarthyism in full swing by the way
"under God" was added after heavy lobbying by the Knights of Columbus (A Catholic Order)

Hmmmm.... Seperation of Church and State? Forgetting our history? Bastardizing a MINISTER'S statement of loyalty to Country... Yep! Kudos to Florida!!! What Next?

Just a little history that often gets forgotten or ignored.

Rapier
 
2001-10-24 02:01:52 PM  
Nice post Rapier
 
2001-10-24 02:02:00 PM  
kudos Midgettossa!

Bug: no, there aren't many things more important - this is a small part of a much bigger picture. don't be so myopic.

everyone:

it has indeed been refreshing to hear ppl thining for themselves, rather than listening to the knees jerking and feet flying into mouths. up until a week or so ago, there was little more in some threads than sheep bleating out their little hearts. mind you, I hope the reason for silence is that ppl are better evaluating the costs of freedom, and I look forward to the challenge after the opposing views regroup.
 
2001-10-24 02:03:41 PM  
Oh and by the way...when I say "added" I do mean by someone OTHER than the author....he protested the addition by the DAR and AL in 1923 and was slapped down. His grand-daughter protested against "under God" as he had SPECIFICALLY left that out as an appeal for patriotism NOT religion. Geuss what...she got slapped down too...

Rapier
 
2001-10-24 02:05:47 PM  
10-24-01 02:01:52 PM Malinois
Nice post Rapier


I second that

"in god we trust" - wasn't that also added the the 50's? I think I would have had an aneurysm had I lived then..
 
2001-10-24 02:08:42 PM  
In God we trust WAS also added to our money in the 1950's "that wonder full era" of bomb shelters and the Red scare... And thank you to Malinois and Cromwell :)
 
2001-10-24 02:08:50 PM  
SIMPLE SOLUTION!!
If you don't like the Pledge, here:

"I plead alignment to the flakes of the untitled snakes of a merry cow, and to the Republicans for which they scam, one nacho, underpants, invisible, with licorice and jugs of wine for owls."

And if you don't believe that owls should have wine and licorice, why don't you just leave the country?
 
2001-10-24 02:09:11 PM  
I don't like it, but I won't really complain once they let you say it in whatever language you want.

Weirdly, our official language almost became German after the revolution, and there've been a few times that non-English speakers have outnumbered English speakers. In a hundred years it'll all be Spanglish...
 
2001-10-24 02:09:56 PM  
Yeah, the "under god" and "in god we trust" phrases were added to the pledge and our money, respectively, in the 50's. I love pointing that out when ignorant CC types say "We need god back in the establishment, that's the way it's always been."
 
2001-10-24 02:12:51 PM  
Of course, God doesn't exist, right? So what are you all complaining about, hm?
 
2001-10-24 02:15:03 PM  
I agree completely Deus, It is disheartening to see just how few people RESEARCH what they say forst, though.

Another thing I found interesting was that in Washington's Administration Madison (or Monroe I cant remember off the top of my head) was the person in charge of Foreign relations and he SPECIFICALLY said the US was NOT Christian, but rather Secular in which the people were free to follow whatever faith they felt, or none at all (in a treaty with Turkey, I believe.)
USA = United Secularly Always <---I hope!
 
2001-10-24 02:18:06 PM  
Trape,

It has nothing to do with whether god(s) exist.. It has to do with not forcing your views upon someone else. That is the antithesis of freedom. It also has to do with understanding and learning from history. Did we profit as a society from the Red Scare? Ummm...No. Let's not slap a new face on it and do it again.
 
2001-10-24 02:18:06 PM  
You can believe in God or not, as you please. If you don't, you'd better hope you're right...
 
2001-10-24 02:19:34 PM  
Trapezoid- can we include jugs of wine for monkies a well? I mean it doesn't rhymme exactly, but its the principle!
 
2001-10-24 02:20:33 PM  
"USA = United Secularly Always <---I hope!"

Rapier: A nice sentiment - maybe someday it will be true. Don't hold your breath, though.
 
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