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(BBC)   Basing it on its Orion capsule concept, NASA picks its deep-space astronaut vehicle, tentatively named the "Pipe Dream"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 85
    More: Interesting, NASA, NASA Administrator, cubic metres, Earth Orbit, SpaceX, rocket launchers, Moons of Mars, modules  
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2470 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 May 2011 at 10:50 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-25 10:42:45 AM
 
2011-05-25 10:57:15 AM
I love how so many companies are pitching spacecraft ideas as an alternative to government ones, gives me hope for cheap spaceflight within the next few decades.
 
2011-05-25 11:14:05 AM
What kind of nut job volunteers to get locked in something the size of a small bedroom with 3 other guys for months, eating dehydrated food and drinking recycled piss and sweat so they can go see a rock? To discover what, the solar system is made of small asteroid composed of dirt and ice water? Yeah, there's some science right there. That's gotta be worth 3 lives and billions of dollars. For fark sakes NASA, give it a couple of years, do a bit more designing come up with new materials, drive systems and manufacturing and build something a bit more "spacey".
 
2011-05-25 11:16:14 AM
Mr Obama has said he would like humans to visit a space rock in the 2020s

This sentence made me laugh.
 
2011-05-25 11:20:10 AM
indarwinsshadow


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-05-25 11:22:38 AM
THIS:
upload.wikimedia.org

Is Project Orion, not that POS trip back to the '60s that was rightfully killed.
 
2011-05-25 11:23:48 AM

indarwinsshadow: What kind of nut job volunteers to get locked in something the size of a small bedroom with 3 other guys for months, eating dehydrated food and drinking recycled piss and sweat so they can go see a rock? To discover what, the solar system is made of small asteroid composed of dirt and ice water? Yeah, there's some science right there. That's gotta be worth 3 lives and billions of dollars. For fark sakes NASA, give it a couple of years, do a bit more designing come up with new materials, drive systems and manufacturing and build something a bit more "spacey".


Said capsule wouldn't be where they would be living. It would be how they get to the ship, which would probably look like a movable space station.
 
2011-05-25 11:27:01 AM
So its plumbing will have to be constantly reassembled before green ooze leaks out?
 
2011-05-25 11:27:04 AM

indarwinsshadow: What kind of nut job volunteers to get locked in something the size of a small bedroom with 3 other guys for months, eating dehydrated food and drinking recycled piss and sweat so they can go see a rock? To discover what, the solar system is made of small asteroid composed of dirt and ice water? Yeah, there's some science right there. That's gotta be worth 3 lives and billions of dollars. For fark sakes NASA, give it a couple of years, do a bit more designing come up with new materials, drive systems and manufacturing and build something a bit more "spacey".



I'm in. When do we leave?

IT'S SPACE, for god's sake.
 
2011-05-25 11:30:20 AM
"But the initiative was cancelled by his successor because of its burgeoning cost - $9bn at the time Mr Obama ordered it be shut down. Investment in Orion alone to date is put at slightly more than $5bn."

$9 billion was too much? How much does an aircraft carrier cost? Hell, how much is spent on the entire Defense budget each year?
 
2011-05-25 11:35:26 AM

penguinfark: "But the initiative was cancelled by his successor because of its burgeoning cost - $9bn at the time Mr Obama ordered it be shut down. Investment in Orion alone to date is put at slightly more than $5bn."

$9 billion was too much? How much does an aircraft carrier cost? Hell, how much is spent on the entire Defense budget each year?


Don't worry, whoever succeeds Obama will do the same thing to this, if it ever actually gets funded anyways. They'll cancel it just like every president for decades has cancelled whatever NASA is working on for manned space flight. This will result in billions of dollars spent and another project cancelled before the kinks can get worked out.

People seem to expect something as massively complex as manned space vehicles to work perfectly on the first test run. That shiat takes time and effort to get working no matter how well designed and built.

Honestly, if Kennedy hadn't been assasinated I don't think Apollo would have ever made it off the ground without cancellation.
 
2011-05-25 11:36:48 AM
This is going to be an unpopular view on Fark, but can we defund NASA already? When you divorce your emotional reaction to the sheer awesomeness of manned space travel, can you seriously argue that the NASA's funding wouldn't be better spent on climate change research?

NASA has certainly led to tons of unexpected technological innovations, but it seems to me that any area of applied science receiving that kind of long-term funding would produce similar results.

We should focus on earth rather than trying to escape it.
 
2011-05-25 11:39:46 AM
Actual Farking



files.sharenator.com
 
2011-05-25 11:40:11 AM

Actual Farking: This is going to be an unpopular view on Fark, but can we defund NASA already? When you divorce your emotional reaction to the sheer awesomeness of manned space travel, can you seriously argue that the NASA's funding wouldn't be better spent on climate change research?

NASA has certainly led to tons of unexpected technological innovations, but it seems to me that any area of applied science receiving that kind of long-term funding would produce similar results.

We should focus on earth rather than trying to escape it.


You're right. That's an unpopular view.
 
2011-05-25 11:42:32 AM

ArtosRC: MPCV? No. No. This is a space-ready MCV.

/The only way to start the morning


"Ready and waiting, comrade."

I miss that game so much.
 
2011-05-25 11:47:35 AM

JinxofSpades: IT'S SPACE, for god's sake.


Space? SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

/Wanna see me? Buy a telescope
 
2011-05-25 11:49:19 AM

sethen320: You're right. That's an unpopular view.


OK. Refute it. I'm open-minded if you can prove me wrong.
 
2011-05-25 11:50:17 AM

indarwinsshadow: What kind of nut job volunteers to get locked in something the size of a small bedroom with 3 other guys for months, eating dehydrated food and drinking recycled piss and sweat so they can go see a rock? To discover what, the solar system is made of small asteroid composed of dirt and ice water? Yeah, there's some science right there. That's gotta be worth 3 lives and billions of dollars. For fark sakes NASA, give it a couple of years, do a bit more designing come up with new materials, drive systems and manufacturing and build something a bit more "spacey".


Materials science is proceeding at a pretty steady clip already; not sure how NASA could move that along any faster.

And the problem with designing a new drive is twofold. One, if you're talking about pushing things out of the gravity well you need a high specific impulse, and there's only so much that chemical rockets can give you. And there are some problems with using Orion-type propulsion in the lower atmosphere. Two, if you are talking about moving very fast through a vacuum, you need a lot of delta-V to get up to speed. Problem is, the more delta-V you need, the less specific impulse you can get.

We already have engines that can make a spacecraft go very, very fast, but there's still no good way to get them out of the gravity well where they can actually work.
 
2011-05-25 11:51:22 AM

Actual Farking: This is going to be an unpopular view on Fark, but can we defund NASA already? When you divorce your emotional reaction to the sheer awesomeness of manned space travel, can you seriously argue that the NASA's funding wouldn't be better spent on climate change research?


The amount of stupid in this post is very telling about why NASA is never funded to the levels it should be. Nobody actually knows what it does or how little money it actually gets.

How do you think we study the Earth's climate, smart guy?
 
2011-05-25 11:54:37 AM

Actual Farking: sethen320: You're right. That's an unpopular view.

OK. Refute it. I'm open-minded if you can prove me wrong.


Why refute the obvious? If you're open-minded you already know the payoffs that have come from all of our space ambitions. What new gadget do you have in your house from the climate change research initiatives?
 
2011-05-25 11:55:03 AM

Thoguh: How do you think we study the Earth's climate, smart guy?


Not by manned missions to Mars. And I'm not suggesting abandoning any kind of space research but only funding that which is directed towards mitigating climate change.
 
2011-05-25 11:55:37 AM

Antimatter: indarwinsshadow: What kind of nut job volunteers to get locked in something the size of a small bedroom with 3 other guys for months, eating dehydrated food and drinking recycled piss and sweat so they can go see a rock? To discover what, the solar system is made of small asteroid composed of dirt and ice water? Yeah, there's some science right there. That's gotta be worth 3 lives and billions of dollars. For fark sakes NASA, give it a couple of years, do a bit more designing come up with new materials, drive systems and manufacturing and build something a bit more "spacey".

Said capsule wouldn't be where they would be living. It would be how they get to the ship, which would probably look like a movable space station.


Incorrect. That IS where they would be living.
 
2011-05-25 11:55:55 AM

penguinfark: "But the initiative was cancelled by his successor because of its burgeoning cost - $9bn at the time Mr Obama ordered it be shut down. Investment in Orion alone to date is put at slightly more than $5bn."

$9 billion was too much? How much does an aircraft carrier cost? Hell, how much is spent on the entire Defense budget each year?


9 billion is a lot when little result was seen. space x did two orbit shots for what, 650 million? Why did ATK need so much more, yet not deliver anything? Well, they did give us an Ares 1-X, which was mostly a standing as it was little more then a 4 segment SRB with dead weight on top.
 
2011-05-25 11:55:58 AM
The MPCV will be capable of carrying four astronauts on 21-day missions. It would start those journeys by launching on the top of an as-yet-undefined big rocket and end them by splashing down in the Pacific off California.

Nasa says the 23-ton spacecraft would have a pressurized volume of 19.5 cubic metres (690 cu ft), just over nine cubic metres (300 cu ft) of which would be habitable.


I know reading is a struggle...but since it's in the article thought I'd point it out (again pay attention).

Living in 300 cu ft is about the size of the average bedroom. Yes, I got it's zero gravity and all surfaces become habitable but you're still cramming in 3 or 4 guys into that space. A jail cell is about 48 sq ft. And it's still space. It's a big cold vacuum (like your mom).
 
2011-05-25 11:56:50 AM

pkellmey: What new gadget do you have in your house from the climate change research initiatives?


Show me where climate change research initiatives have enjoyed 50+ years of massive government subsidies.
 
2011-05-25 11:58:34 AM
Thousands of SiFi flicks to help with designs in the world and this is what they come up with? What a bummer.
 
2011-05-25 11:59:07 AM

Actual Farking: pkellmey: What new gadget do you have in your house from the climate change research initiatives?

Show me where climate change research initiatives have enjoyed 50+ years of massive government subsidies.


That was part of the question?
 
2011-05-25 11:59:29 AM
Jubeebee

I was thinking we either stop sending people and send robots, or take the time over the next hundred years or so and figure out gravity and how to generate it. You can't create any sort of realistic drive without conquering the problem of inertia and gravity first. NASA is just another business anymore. If they don't come up with new ways of wasting cash, then there's little reason to fund the organization. So, they come up with dumb ass shiat like sending people into space in something the size of a large walk in freezer.
 
2011-05-25 12:00:16 PM
Will it be powered by the full fury of the Astro Force?

/That'd be cool.
 
2011-05-25 12:06:33 PM

Actual Farking: Thoguh: How do you think we study the Earth's climate, smart guy?

Not by manned missions to Mars. And I'm not suggesting abandoning any kind of space research but only funding that which is directed towards mitigating climate change.


You said "Can we defund NASA." You directly asked for an abandonment of space research, since they're the ones that do it.

Maybe that wasn't your point, but it is CLEARLY what you said.
 
2011-05-25 12:07:46 PM

pkellmey: Actual Farking: pkellmey: What new gadget do you have in your house from the climate change research initiatives?

Show me where climate change research initiatives have enjoyed 50+ years of massive government subsidies.

That was part of the question?


I don't have a hybrid car or a mini wind turbine on my house, so I guess the answer is none.

Your question is obviously unfair in that NASA has had far more time and money for its innovations to develop in to cool gadgets than climate change research initiatives.

But by all means, we should wager the future of our planet on our desire for more cool gadgets.
 
2011-05-25 12:10:11 PM

Actual Farking: But by all means, we should wager the future of our planet on our desire for more cool gadgets.


Considering our current understanding of Climate Change considering the money we are currently dumping into it globally, I'm happy we agree.
 
2011-05-25 12:11:53 PM

LasersHurt: You said "Can we defund NASA." You directly asked for an abandonment of space research, since they're the ones that do it.

Maybe that wasn't your point, but it is CLEARLY what you said.


I think you jumped to that conclusion. Defunding NASA does not entail an end to space research. I would just like to eliminate an agency bent on space exploration and apply its funding to an agency tasked with climate change research. I would imagine satellites and such would be involved.
 
2011-05-25 12:12:03 PM

Actual Farking: Thoguh: How do you think we study the Earth's climate, smart guy?

Not by manned missions to Mars. And I'm not suggesting abandoning any kind of space research but only funding that which is directed towards mitigating climate change.


Should we let all the current GPS sattelites crash with no replacements as well?
 
2011-05-25 12:14:20 PM

MDGeist: Thousands of SiFi flicks to help with designs in the world and this is what they come up with? What a bummer.


The Apollo capsule design was no accident.
What they wanted was something reliable and strong but with updated electronics and materials, which is why they got back to a very familiar looking vehicle. CST-100, Orion, Dragon, their all based on the same basic principles as Apollo.

Personally I don't like capsules. Too much of a reliance on a chute and the hidden costs that go with it. Recovering a capsule requires the US NAVY. Recovering a space plane requires a truck. I'd have sooner seen them man rate an X-37 or the dream chaser for this job.
The shuttle wasn't wrong so much as it was just too damn big and complicated to be easily maintained.

With the commercial sector also going capsule for the most part, its going to be a while before we back into the spaceplane business.
 
2011-05-25 12:14:47 PM

indarwinsshadow: I was thinking we either stop sending people and send robots, or take the time over the next hundred years or so and figure out gravity and how to generate it. You can't create any sort of realistic drive without conquering the problem of inertia and gravity first.


We already send robots. Other than the space stations, everything for the last 30 years has been robots. Cassini, New Horizons, Hubble, Voyager, the Mars Rovers, etc. All robots. And we're getting better at building them, even if their capabilities do lag terrestrial robots by quite a bit due to design requirements needed for their operating environment.

We also already know how to generate gravity.
Step 1. Have mass.
There is no step 2.
And unfortunately, there has never been any evidence anywhere except in Alastair Reynold's mind that inertia is something that can be 'solved.'

Space travel isn't, and never will be, magic. It's a very, very difficult engineering problem, and waiting for some invention that breaks the known laws of physics before we start working on it seems to be a very poor way of solving it.
 
2011-05-25 12:17:00 PM

Jubeebee: Space travel isn't, and never will be, magic. It's a very, very difficult engineering problem, and waiting for some invention that breaks the known laws of physics before we start working on it seems to be a very poor way of solving it.


This times a million. We aren't going to wake up one day with a faster than light drive or anything close to it. But if we continue to make incimental progress we'll eventually be traveling to other worlds. The thing is though that it'll probably take hundreds of years to get that far. But if we don't start now we'll never get there.
 
2011-05-25 12:18:02 PM

Thoguh: Should we let all the current GPS sattelites crash with no replacements as well?


Obviously not, look at the post above yours.

Again, people are jumping to unreasonable conclusions based on my original post. My post was hardly a comprehensive policy plan. It was about abandoning NASA and using its resources to combat climate change. I advocated focusing our resources towards the earth, not pretending space doesn't exist and letting satellites fall from the sky.
 
2011-05-25 12:21:39 PM

Thoguh: The thing is though that it'll probably take hundreds of years to get that far. But if we don't start now we'll never get there.


You're showing your obvious emotional bias to the dream of interplanetary space travel. Your willingness to accept a multi-generational view of this issue while refusing to do so about climate change is simply irrational.
 
2011-05-25 12:24:38 PM

Actual Farking: Thoguh: Should we let all the current GPS sattelites crash with no replacements as well?

Obviously not, look at the post above yours.

Again, people are jumping to unreasonable conclusions based on my original post. My post was hardly a comprehensive policy plan. It was about abandoning NASA and using its resources to combat climate change. I advocated focusing our resources towards the earth, not pretending space doesn't exist and letting satellites fall from the sky.


I see nothing unreasonable in the conclusions. NASA has implemented more climate resource tech than any other organization and you are talking about defunding it. You are arguing against your own case either way you go with the argument.
 
2011-05-25 12:28:09 PM

pkellmey: NASA has implemented more climate resource tech than any other organization and you are talking about defunding it. You are arguing against your own case either way you go with the argument.


Unless NASA uses 100% of its funding on climate-related projects, I am not arguing against my own case.
 
2011-05-25 12:29:15 PM

Actual Farking: You're showing your obvious emotional bias to the dream of interplanetary space travel. Your willingness to accept a multi-generational view of this issue while refusing to do so about climate change is simply irrational.


Who says interplanetary space travel isn't a way do deal with climate change? One way or another, either through our own fault or the universe's, Earth is going to be either rendered uninhabitable or stripped bare of resources. If we wait to solve all the problems on Earth before we look outwards we will just stagnate and never accomplish anything.
 
2011-05-25 12:31:04 PM

Actual Farking: pkellmey: NASA has implemented more climate resource tech than any other organization and you are talking about defunding it. You are arguing against your own case either way you go with the argument.

Unless NASA uses 100% of its funding on climate-related projects, I am not arguing against my own case.


"This is going to be an unpopular view on Fark, but can we defund NASA already?"

Ah, you just have no idea what you are talking about. I understand now.
 
2011-05-25 12:33:26 PM

Thoguh: Actual Farking: You're showing your obvious emotional bias to the dream of interplanetary space travel. Your willingness to accept a multi-generational view of this issue while refusing to do so about climate change is simply irrational.

Who says interplanetary space travel isn't a way do deal with climate change? One way or another, either through our own fault or the universe's, Earth is going to be either rendered uninhabitable or stripped bare of resources. If we wait to solve all the problems on Earth before we look outwards we will just stagnate and never accomplish anything.


You are suggesting we base current fiscal policy on God Emperor of Dune?
 
2011-05-25 12:35:18 PM

Thoguh: Actual Farking: You're showing your obvious emotional bias to the dream of interplanetary space travel. Your willingness to accept a multi-generational view of this issue while refusing to do so about climate change is simply irrational.

Who says interplanetary space travel isn't a way do deal with climate change? One way or another, either through our own fault or the universe's, Earth is going to be either rendered uninhabitable or stripped bare of resources. If we wait to solve all the problems on Earth before we look outwards we will just stagnate and never accomplish anything.


Ah, so we'll have two planets to fark up instead of one. Fantastic.
 
2011-05-25 12:35:47 PM

way south: Personally I don't like capsules. Too much of a reliance on a chute and the hidden costs that go with it. Recovering a capsule requires the US NAVY. Recovering a space plane requires a truck.


Land the capsule on the ground. The Sovs did so for decades.
 
2011-05-25 12:36:03 PM
needs nacelles.
 
2011-05-25 12:36:28 PM
 
2011-05-25 12:38:29 PM

Erik_Emune: Land the capsule on the ground. The Sovs did so for decades.


Crap. You beat me to it.
 
2011-05-25 12:56:37 PM
ccom-online.com

feels your pain
 
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