Does it have a touch screen? Then you can keep that shiat.

superoogie: I am forced to use one for work, and I can't even begin to list the problems with it:

- Frequent crashes
- An "end call" button on the phone right where your ear rests against the phone
- Poor touchscreen responsiveness
- Poor keyboard
- Awful rotational attitude control
- Microsoft's regular "helpful" UI that makes it fives times more difficult to do simple things such as filing messages.
- Lack of any real customization on the UI.

... it goes on and on.

Sounds like you've got shiat hardware. I've got an LG 900 (Optimus) and the only problem I share with you is the Ear-End Call issue.

lippenhoffer: smartphone and only use the data over wifi? Sort of like an ipod Touch with a phone. I understand that Verizon et al. make money on the subscriptions, but I'd be willing to by the phone outright.

Telus in Canada is now selling Windows 7 phones without data plans. My wife picked up a new phone for $29 cash and a 3 year voice and text plan.

sure haven't: No, the windows phone effort is much more comprehensive and full of effort than the kin. The kin was the precursor, whereas wp7 is part of their ecosystem. It ain't going anywhere. It's Microsoft, when they back something, they back it.

I had an xda 2 smartphone, which was released in 2004, three years ahead of the iphone. It had a big ass touch screen, and Windows Pocket PC, the precursor to windows mobile. It also had quite a lot of apps, though no store.

Support from microsoft, and compatibility were always woeful. The OS itself was unaware of the fact the device was a phone and relied a lot on the customization from HTC. There were a lot of apps for it (as the OS was essentially the same one as on windows CE PDAs), but a lot of them wouldn't work because of slightly incompatible hardware. Getting (external!) GPS to work via bluetooth was a chore; select the right COM port and remember to set the baudrate correctly.

Of course, then they renamed the OS "windows mobile", and dropped support for the old stuff. You better believe they won't give you a free OS upgrade. They have a kind of app store (I think "windows market" or something like that). Doesn't work, shows only a handful of incredibly clunky apps. Of course you can download apps elsewhere, but there's jailbreaking involved. They basically made my collection of .cabs worthless. Some ecosystem, I can't even use the apps I've collected over the years.

Did I mention that "activesync" usually doesn't synch properly? Or how it failed to restore my backup? Or the time it decided to "synch" by throwing away all the contacts in my phone when I hooked it up to copy my contacts from my phone to my PC? And how activesynch dropped support for non-outlook mail and contacts?

I upgraded my windows mobile 6 device to 6.5 (it was a selling point that it's an upgradable device). Of course, now everything is slow as molasses. I want to throw my phone out of the window whenever I use it :-(

Then they came out with windows phone 7, which dropped things like multi-tasking and copy-paste, which had been in windows CE since its birth. In 1996.

That's right, Microsoft can't even support copy-paste, fifteen years after its introduction in windows CE. It's not rocket science.

So forgive me if I'm a bit cynical about the latest and greatest phone OS from Microsoft. I'll wait and see.

moof: hen they came out with windows phone 7, which dropped things like multi-tasking and copy-paste, which had been in windows CE since its birth. In 1996.

That's right, Microsoft can't even support copy-paste, fifteen years after its introduction in windows CE. It's not rocket science.

Copy-Paste was implemented in the March update. Works well.

moof: That's right, Microsoft can't even support copy-paste, fifteen years after its introduction in windows CE. It's not rocket science.

You're behind the times. WP7 has copy-paste now. After the next update, it should be feature-competitive with just about everything.

/MS 2011 != MS 2004

God--: Snarkyness aside, Win phone 7 is pretty good. Far better than android in a lot of respects. What it lacks are apps.

Apps. Yeaaahhhh. Let's see. I had an iphone for 2 years. Got 30-40 apps for it, played with maybe 50 others on other phones. I've had an android for over a year, tried or got maybe 20 apps so far.

The problem is, most 'apps' are just a condensed version of a webpage, or an OK but forgettable game, or do something silly or stupid, or do something the phone already does but a little different somehow (calendar, notes, etc). If I think really hard I can come up with 3-4 apps that were really amazing and useful. The only one I use frequently is Shazam.

As for the ludicrous 100,000 app store numbers, we all know 99% of those are total garbage.

Surool: They lost market share with a series of crappy phone OSs.

I think we all know this. I'm not about to rush out and buy a MS phone, but they do seem to have gotten their heads straight for a change. Flushing the vomit that was WinCE once and for all was a turning point. It would not at all be suprising if they were a #2-3 player in a couple of years.

Oh, no one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to sleep with Ballmer, so drop the 'white knight' bullshiat, OK?

jayhawk88: True story, bro...

I was at TechEd last week. At one point I was in a session with probably like 300 other geeks, and the presenter was finally getting around to making his mandatory mention of how whatever product the session was on ties in so nicely to Windows Phone 7. He asked for a show of hands, how many people had one?

Like 3 hands went up.

It really struck me. It wasn't just a shy/bored crowd; I didn't see a single Windows Phone being carried around by anyone that wasn't wearing a blue or green presenter shirt. I mean, this is TechEd, just about as far into the belly of the beast as you can go without buying a plane ticket to Redmond. It's not exactly fanboy central or anything, but if you're there, you use, rely on, support, and/or develop for Microsoft products on a daily basis. And Microsoft can't even sell to these people. What hope do they ever have in prying the iPhones and Androids out of Joe Consumer's hands? They could leave boxes of them lying in the streets at this point, and still be a distant third.

I live in the Redmond-ish area, and I'm still surprised when I see other people with Windows Phone 7. First it was a few people at concerts taking pictures. And then two of my friends got one. Honestly, it's more than I expected. But I got my phone on day one, and I love it.

Bacontastesgood:

Oh, no one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to sleep with Ballmer, so drop the 'white knight' bullshiat, OK?

But he might show me his boobies!

WP7 user and developer here. Getting a kick out of the replies.

Once mango comes, WP7 will have everything that android/iOS offers, and be much nicer to develop for. Microsoft pushing handset makers as hard as they're pushing developers and marketing. I have a feeling it will succeed.

YouWinAgainGravity: My year with a droid incredible has convinced me that my next phone will be either be a windows phone or iPhone, unless something major changes.

This is what pushed me to Windows Phone - previous phone was an Original Droid and prior to that a Samsung Omnia running Winmo 6.5 roms.

At first droid was great and everything worked wonderfully, then the updates came and phone slowed down more and more - it was turning into my winmo phone again where I needed to get better roms for things to work smoother - it felt every week I was putting a new rom on to fix an issue the previous one broke.

Finally, I grew tired of this nightmare and wanted a phone that just worked and so since I already have a zune and an xbox with a windows live id, it seemed to make more sense to go Windows Phone over Iphone.

There is stuff missing and its not perfect but for me the social aspect, how fast and smooth it runs and the device itself (samsung focus) its a beautiful piece and with Mango a lot of my complaints will be fixed

Customizable ringtones are coming with mango as well as battery saving options and multi-tasking plus more that has yet to be announced

Bacontastesgood: The problem is, most 'apps' are just a condensed version of a webpage, or an OK but forgettable game, or do something silly or stupid, or do something the phone already does but a little different somehow (calendar, notes, etc). If I think really hard I can come up with 3-4 apps that were really amazing and useful. The only one I use frequently is Shazam.

So what is your point? Apps are overrated? I have a dozen applications I can't live without. Most I can't find on android let alone Windows Mobile. And applications will be a major part of my decision on which new phone I'll get later in the year.

/most users who buy Android based phones are buying it for the phone bit - not for apps anyways

You know how many birthdays there are each year? Hundreds.

/Literally, hundreds.

So has anyone else heard further news of Microsoft buying Nokia's handset division? It would be a bold move, but could save WP7 from becoming the fragmented mess that Windows Mobile 6.x was.


Link to rumormill (new tab)

bravian: Bacontastesgood: The problem is, most 'apps' are just a condensed version of a webpage, or an OK but forgettable game, or do something silly or stupid, or do something the phone already does but a little different somehow (calendar, notes, etc). If I think really hard I can come up with 3-4 apps that were really amazing and useful. The only one I use frequently is Shazam.

So what is your point? Apps are overrated? I have a dozen applications I can't live without. Most I can't find on android let alone Windows Mobile. And applications will be a major part of my decision on which new phone I'll get later in the year.

/most users who buy Android based phones are buying it for the phone bit - not for apps anyways

I think the point is that the "Number of apps available" is a useless metric. There are some damn good apps out there, but the vast majority of apps are the same old shiat over and over again. How many flashlights and compasses do I need? Most of the information apps are simply RSS feeds with a customized display (i.e. the thinly disguised webpage Bacontastesgood was mentioning).

My biggest complaint isn't in the number of apps, but the organization of the app store. I'm currently overwhelmed with crap.

Surool:
You really are a farknozzle. Microsoft isn't new to the mobile market. They've been in phones before there was an iOS or an Android. If you want to white knight Microsoft, go ahead. Don't act like they are a new player. They lost market share with a series of crappy phone OSs.

Yet they acted like noobs. The first Win7 update and resulting problems probably turned off a lot of potential users.

One thing that would really put them into a killer market segment is the enterprise. If it integrates easily with AD, allows for remote administration (security, remote wipe, etc.) MS could dominate the business market like they do with their OS and enterprise network stuff.

Last Windoz smartphone I had, made a great hand warmer. When the GPS was in use, it had severe withdrawal symptoms from it's charging cord. Wore out a battery door from the constant lock ups.

lippenhoffer: Why can't I buy a smartphone and only use the data over wifi? Sort of like an ipod Touch with a phone. I understand that Verizon et al. make money on the subscriptions, but I'd be willing to by the phone outright.

I'm in the exact same situation. I don't want to pay for a data plan, unless I do, my options for phones are crap

GavinTheAlmighty: lippenhoffer: Why can't I buy a smartphone and only use the data over wifi? Sort of like an ipod Touch with a phone. I understand that Verizon et al. make money on the subscriptions, but I'd be willing to by the phone outright.

I'm in the exact same situation. I don't want to pay for a data plan, unless I do, my options for phones are crap

Clarification: I'm with Bell because of a corporate discount, and I'm not leaving.

Steve Ballmer sucks. That is all.

Old phone is down in the hundreds. Love how fast technology becomes affordable. You can get the HTC HD7 Windows Phone now for $30.00 if you follow this link.

HTC HD7 Windows Phone (T-Mobile)

annoyed_grunt: People still read Gizmodo?

Well, hipsters don't.

Fuggin Bizzy: annoyed_grunt: People still read Gizmodo?

Well, hipsters don't.

I read it ironically.

Are people here blind or simply wildly out of touch? Windows Phone 7 is an unreserved success and has made Microsoft back into a serious player in the mobile OS market, I see the things all over the place in business, and know several game devs with them and working on them. Anything coming out of there now is going to be taken seriously.

I say this as an Android fanboy who has no windows phone 7 devices btw :P

Surool: farknozzle: Remember when MS entered the console market with the Xbox, and people were all like, "You're never gonna catch up with the PS2 and (whichever Nintendo system it was at the time, N64?)!". Yet now the 360 is widely accepted as a valid gaming device.

I see this as a similar situation, as both android and iOS have a significant head start in the phone market, but if Microsoft really wants in, I can see them eventually shouldering in with the big boys. It might take awhile, though.

I will tell you this: It's WP7 or iOS 5 for my next phone; the fragmentation of android has soured that OS for me.

You really are a farknozzle. Microsoft isn't new to the mobile market. They've been in phones before there was an iOS or an Android. If you want to white knight Microsoft, go ahead. Don't act like they are a new player. They lost market share with a series of crappy phone OSs.

I'm not saying they're brand new - the situation IS similar (not an exact match, as they've been down that road before), but it is similar to the Xbox situation, along with the requisite MS screw-ups. I have no idea which fanboy nerve I touched there, but there's no need to be a douche because I stated the opinion that Microsoft will simply push ahead until they gain acceptance.

They did it in the console market, they can do it here. Currently I use an iPhone 3G and like it, and will probably stay that route. I'm not white knighting anyone, I'm telling you what I've observed them to do and predicting they will do it again.

Of what's out there right now, they're as viable an option as anyone else - Blackberry stinks on ice (used it, hated it, wife has it now, hates it), iOS is simple but stable, Android is all over the place, WP7 is somewhere between iOS and blackberry IMO.

You're THAT guy from the IT dept, aren't you?

farknozzle: I'm not saying they're brand new - the situation IS similar (not an exact match, as they've been down that road before), but it is similar to the Xbox situation, along with the requisite MS screw-ups. I have no idea which fanboy nerve I touched there, but there's no need to be a douche because I stated the opinion that Microsoft will simply push ahead until they gain acceptance.

Unlike when Microsoft was brand new to the console market, they had YEARS of phone OS experience before this... and they still released an incomplete system to the market. It was missing basic functionality that was present in previous Microsoft phone OSs. Microsoft and RIM fanboys rightly blasted Apple for releasing a non-multitasking OS without basic copy/paste functions YEARS ago, and Apple had never put a phone OS together before. Did no one learn from that? Sure, Microsoft is fixing that now, but they can't blame people for not wanting to jump on board with their phone system. Personally, I am sick to death of Microsoft's policy of marketing public betas over the years, then having people suffer and wait for the full release.

This isn't about fanboy-itis. This is a very valid disagreement with the way you want to soft-pedal this situation. Microsoft should know better by now. If not from everyone else's mistakes, from their own. For crying out loud, the Kin was one of the most catastrophic failures in the handset industry. I would think as publicly traded company they'd want to make sure this OS was airtight and ready for primetime before putting it on the market.

I'm sorry if I disagree with you analysis of the situation, but calling me a fanboy to deflect attention from your weak Microsoft defense is really lame.

I have never worked in an IT department... so you're wrong again.

I keep reading posts in this thread that scream "paid shill" to me. Not sure why.

A touch screen smartphone with no apps that doesn't even support copy and paste? Microsoft finally made it to 2007!

jayhawk88: True story, bro...

I was at TechEd last week. At one point I was in a session with probably like 300 other geeks, and the presenter was finally getting around to making his mandatory mention of how whatever product the session was on ties in so nicely to Windows Phone 7. He asked for a show of hands, how many people had one?

Like 3 hands went up.

It really struck me. It wasn't just a shy/bored crowd; I didn't see a single Windows Phone being carried around by anyone that wasn't wearing a blue or green presenter shirt. I mean, this is TechEd, just about as far into the belly of the beast as you can go without buying a plane ticket to Redmond. It's not exactly fanboy central or anything, but if you're there, you use, rely on, support, and/or develop for Microsoft products on a daily basis. And Microsoft can't even sell to these people. What hope do they ever have in prying the iPhones and Androids out of Joe Consumer's hands? They could leave boxes of them lying in the streets at this point, and still be a distant third.

Almost everyone raised their hands in the sessions I was in but most of them were specific to Window Phone or Azure. If you were in mostly IT Pro sessions, the lack of hands raised wouldn't surprise me. There were plenty of iphones and ipads being carried around.

I wouldn't count Microsoft out though. My firm for example has apps for iphone and android but only the most basic information. The Mango release of WinPhone 7 includes many of the enterprise security features that were in Windows Mobile and are in Blackberry but were left out of the initial WP7 release.

We simply can't push that data out to unsecure devices so for mobile access to firm data it is going to be the decaying Windows Mobile platform (ok, we won't bother, it's dead), Blackberry (good security, browser sucks to chrome off trailer hitches), or WinPhone 7. I'm sure many others are in the same situation. If you want to look up a co-workers phone number on your iphone, there's an app for that. If you want to access the latest finance data, sorry, you must be on a secure platform.

/One of the few who didn't raise his hand.
//Waiting for 4G, don't care about finance data

Loki-L:
Microsoft can and will drop any product that doesn't make enough money for them leaving the poor idiots who bought into it holding the ball.

Microsofts modus operandi has always been to lock you in to their eco system (even to the extent of accepting mass software piracy in the DOS/Win3.x/9x days) so when they ditch a product or move a feature set to another of their products you have to purchase the upgrade to enjoy continued compatibility... for a time.

They're past masters of the vapour-ware and PR manipulation to kill competitors, manipulating standards boards and throwing terms in to vendor contracts that stop any competition.

Anyone putting money on WP7 being around all that long has learned their lessons from history very well. Especially as last year MS announced Windows 8... you really think there isn't a WP8 to go with it?

MrEricSir: A touch screen smartphone with no apps that doesn't even support copy and paste? Microsoft finally made it to 2007!

Same tired fanboy comments...

Copy/Paste came out in March there were hiccups with some phones due to firmware issues (not an ms issue) so not everyone has it yet...

Currently there is 18k apps

With Mango it seems MS is trying to get rid of the need of hundreds of apps and will be well integrated into the OS.

envirovore: PrivateCaboose:
Android lacks Netflix and silly things like an easy way to make your phone vibrate JUST WHEN YOURE GETTING A CALL

For the life of me I cannot get vibrate when receiving a text to work on my Android. I have it set in the options to both play a tone and vibrate (as I can't hear my message tone when the phone is in my pocket, but can feel the vibration) and it fails every time. Vibrate while ringing works though, so there's that I guess.

I wouldn't mind a W7 phone. My brother has one and it seems like a relatively solid handset. Smooth animation, beautiful screen. Just lacking a few features as of now, and as stated, apps.

I am actually annoyed that my phone vibrates every single time I get a text. There is no total silent option on 2.2 (Froyo - android).

Aside from that, all the kids loving BBM want my phone now (What, you can watch live sports??).

I love my Android!. Have a co-worker who is downgrading to the iPhone4.

/DOES NOT GET THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BBM!
//Had a BB, it sucked ass.
///Canadian
////RIM can RIM my ass.
///LIVE SPORTS!
//SLASHIES!!!

I'm still using my LG VX5200.

/I can push buttons and talk to people.