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(CBS Local)   Parents in New Jersey feel that homework ain't got no friggin' class   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 158
    More: Obvious, New Jersey, eleventh grade, homework, lunch break, charter schools, high schools, Maddy Reichman, Jeremy Walrond  
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9364 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2011 at 6:14 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-22 06:00:51 PM
Maybe your kids are just retahded.
 
2011-05-22 06:17:11 PM
They have a point. Busy work isnt helping anyone. Some teachers give homework just for the sake of giving homework because SOME parents would think they weren't doing their job if they didnt have copious amounts of homework. Combine this with seeing up to 7 different teachers a day(none block scheduling) and the problem becomes clear.
 
2011-05-22 06:21:10 PM
Would have commented sooner but I facepalmed so hard I was out for about 10 minutes.
 
2011-05-22 06:23:09 PM
When I was in school, it seem liked most homework was busy work. It's like school has become more about memorizing than actually thinking.

/Did not read article
//Seemed like busy work
 
2011-05-22 06:23:20 PM
"teachers should coordinate with each other" on the amount of homework given?

Ever heard on an NP-hard problem?

Agrees they should ban homework but should also make school two hours longer each day and start it later.
 
2011-05-22 06:23:55 PM
We will never catch Japan at this rate.
 
2011-05-22 06:25:51 PM
Was there a news article? All I saw were tons of stupid comments.
 
2011-05-22 06:26:02 PM
Oh, how I fear for the future of the Republic.
 
2011-05-22 06:29:34 PM
This article needs more information. I'm sorry it takes your precious snowflake 4 hours to do homework that probably takes about an hour for an average student to do.

"My daughter is frequently up until midnight doing homework, sometimes past. Last night it was 2 a.m.," parent Jeff Schnorr said."

Perhaps you might want to find out why it takes your daughter that long to do her homework in the first place. I guess that would require doing some parenting. Who knows, maybe she's having trouble understanding the core concepts of the work and needs some extra help.
 
2011-05-22 06:29:45 PM
There is no research to support giving homework to elementary and middle school students. Not even in terms of personal responsibility. The only research that supports giving it to high school students says it helps improve their grades and in some cases improved score on an AP test. This is not to say that the occasional homework assignment can't be meaningful, but homework as it is commonly assigned is a waste of time.
 
2011-05-22 06:29:47 PM
For the student who was up til 2AM, I wonder if it was actually 10 hours worth of homework, or if it was a week's worth that the student tried to cram in at the last minute because it was due the next day.
 
2011-05-22 06:30:11 PM

RandomExcess: We will never catch Japan at this rate.


Don't need to, getting close to the Czechs would be good enough. And Czechs have shorter school days, though the school year is longer and homework is seen as something that actually has to help learning not just be useless repetition and busy work. Also in early grades, it doesn't exist.
 
2011-05-22 06:31:11 PM

John Dewey: This is not to say that the occasional homework assignment can't be meaningful, but homework as it is commonly assigned is a waste of time.


This, that and the other thing. Also the idea everyone needs homework to really learn stuff is bogus.
 
2011-05-22 06:31:31 PM
"I play sports so it's really tough to have practice right after school and come home at 6:30 and then do my homework, eat, do my chores, do everything," Reichman said.

Then you don't have time for sports. That's actually why they're called EXTRA curricular activities. Because they're extra.

What are these people going to do when they get a job? Biatch about how they're expected to work 30-40+ hours a week? Grow the fark up, Nancy.
 
2011-05-22 06:32:05 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: For the student who was up til 2AM, I wonder if it was actually 10 hours worth of homework, or if it was a week's worth that the student tried to cram in at the last minute because it was due the next day.


Or if she's just stupid. Stupid people take a long time to finish homework.

Yay for No Idiot Left Behind!
 
2011-05-22 06:32:15 PM

John Dewey: There is no research to support giving homework to elementary and middle school students. Not even in terms of personal responsibility. The only research that supports giving it to high school students says it helps improve their grades and in some cases improved score on an AP test. This is not to say that the occasional homework assignment can't be meaningful, but homework as it is commonly assigned is a waste of time.


Going to disagree with you on this one. Personally when I was in highschool, homework was a way to actually apply the things I had learned in class by myself. That's pretty much the best way to learn. You can only learn so much from a teacher showing you how to do something, you have to also do it yourself to learn it completely.
 
2011-05-22 06:34:49 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: For the student who was up til 2AM, I wonder if it was actually 10 hours worth of homework, or if it was a week's worth that the student tried to cram in at the last minute because it was due the next day.


30 minutes of homework and 9 1/2 hours of phone calls, texts, and facebook most likely.

It really is getting sad that these parents today are pushing sports to be more important then academics.
 
2011-05-22 06:35:07 PM

vulcanisiks: Going to disagree with you on this one. Personally when I was in highschool, homework was a way to actually apply the things I had learned in class by myself. That's pretty much the best way to learn. You can only learn so much from a teacher showing you how to do something, you have to also do it yourself to learn it completely.


And this is where I'm going to disagree with that model of learning for a couple of reasons. First, the student should be doing with the teacher as a guide so bad habits aren't formed and repeated. Second, it's a sign that the class is trying to teach too much if the teacher has to lecture all the time. Third, Google "flipped classroom".
 
2011-05-22 06:35:18 PM

BurnShrike: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: For the student who was up til 2AM, I wonder if it was actually 10 hours worth of homework, or if it was a week's worth that the student tried to cram in at the last minute because it was due the next day.

Or if she's just stupid. Stupid people take a long time to finish homework.

Yay for No Idiot Left Behind!


Indeed. A more compelling argument would be "My child was given homework that included reading 120 pages in a dense history text, a 3 page writing assignment, and 24 trigonometry problems to solve" instead of "My child was up until midnight."

I mean, yeah, your child could just be a farking moron.
 
2011-05-22 06:35:39 PM

Brostorm: They have a point. Busy work isnt helping anyone. Some teachers give homework just for the sake of giving homework because SOME parents would think they weren't doing their job if they didnt have copious amounts of homework. Combine this with seeing up to 7 different teachers a day(none block scheduling) and the problem becomes clear.


THIS. From what I can see, kids today get ridiculous amounts of homework. Somehow kids back in my day got a quality education without being given anywhere near the quantity of homework today's school children have.

Quality does not equal quantity. In fact, it's counterproductive. Hand out enough busywork and eventually you will kill kids' natural love of learning. School doesn't have to suck.

Unless, of course, you see the primary purpose of education as keeping kids out of their parents' hair and off the streets by keeping them busy with mindless busywork to be done indoors.
 
2011-05-22 06:35:47 PM
I think it depends on the subject.

Math homework is very valuable. Repetitive problem solving can be annoying, and even considered busy work, but it is the best way to get good at math.

Science homework is pretty worthless, except for the math it makes you practice. In science, either you understand the concepts or you don't, and the rest is just like math. So homework that makes you do math is great, but homework that reinforces concepts is not.

Language homework is marginally valuable. I think language classes shouldn't have homework, but should have daily tests and encourage daily studying for those tests. Conversation is the best way to learn language; some of the most education time I spent in langauge classes was free talking, where the class was alowed to talk about whatever they wanted with eachother, as long as it was in the foreign language. That actually got a lot of people to look up new words, while the teacher wandered around correcting grammar.

English homework varies; diagramming sentences is a decent way to learn, as is writing sample sentences based on grammar outlines. Literature homework is often worthless. Even in school, I knew my time spent reading Dickens was a waste. There were other books I would rather be reading, but I had to suffer through that wordy bastard's works instead.

I never understood history & geography homework. It was always just reading about history, which would then be covered in class anyway. The same is true for geography homework. There is no need, especially in the age of the internet, for people to memorize information they can easily look up. The same was true for my civics classes; knowing how government works is pretty neat, but not worth memorizing. Just cover it in class so they have heard of it, and let them learn more as they wish.

/no comments about the sex ed homework
 
2011-05-22 06:36:34 PM
What they need to do is get some damn quality teachers. Throughout my high school years, it was not about learning and doing well, but trying to learn how to deal with the teacher's eccentricities.

The best teachers I ever had were the ones that were so good at teaching in class, that almost everyone understood the subject matter simply from class. Of course we got homework in those classes too, but because of the high quality of the teaching, that work was easy, and not very time consuming.

It is the horrible teachers out there that pile work on like crazy. The ones who can't teach need to try and make the kids learn on their own somehow. Sadly, this is the majority.
 
2011-05-22 06:36:39 PM

WhyteRaven74: John Dewey: This is not to say that the occasional homework assignment can't be meaningful, but homework as it is commonly assigned is a waste of time.

This, that and the other thing. Also the idea everyone needs homework to really learn stuff is bogus.


Definitely not everyone. It also depends on the subject. For example I was always good with English and grammar, I didn't really need homework to figure it out.

But math on the other hand? Definitely NOT one of my strong subjects, I needed homework to practice it.

I would say that the average student needs homework. I'm not talking about the smart kid that understands trig from day one and never needs any help.
 
2011-05-22 06:38:55 PM
When one of my kids was in the fourth grade the teacher was assigning 3-4 hors of HW per night. At Parent teacher night I and the rest of the parents were objecting. This Fooking 23 year old teacher was lecturing us on how she felt it was her restorability to force this "bonding time" on us. When I mentioned that with 4 kids that even splitting the time between my wife and myself it would take till after midnight every day. You could see from the look on her face that it was the first time it had ever occurred to her.
 
2011-05-22 06:39:13 PM
if you want to get rid of homework be prepared for being in class year round. which is more important, parents?
 
2011-05-22 06:40:23 PM
If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.
 
2011-05-22 06:40:37 PM

UncleStumpy: if you want to get rid of homework be prepared for being in class year round. which is more important, parents?


How about not creating a false dichotomy and re-thinking curriculum and pedagogical models instead?
 
2011-05-22 06:41:26 PM
This article is most likely a combination of bad parenting and bad teachers.

Find a parent with an average child that talks to their kids. If they're doing 6 hours of homework a night and not at least getting a B in their classes, something is wrong.
 
2011-05-22 06:41:28 PM
Even in early grades (2nd or 3rd), I remember being handed flash cards and being told to memories times tables. And Mary Ellen always kicked my butt at them.

In high school it did seem that the teachers almost conspired with each other to dump a lot of homework from all classes on random days.

In college (engineering school), it was probably 50 hours/week.
 
2011-05-22 06:41:30 PM

UncleStumpy: if you want to get rid of homework be prepared for being in class year round. which is more important, parents?


Year round baby sitting AND I don't have to help them with their homework.... Ya, this is gonna be a tough decision.........
 
2011-05-22 06:42:00 PM

Honest Bender: "I play sports so it's really tough to have practice right after school and come home at 6:30 and then do my homework, eat, do my chores, do everything," Reichman said.

Then you don't have time for sports. That's actually why they're called EXTRA curricular activities. Because they're extra.

What are these people going to do when they get a job? Biatch about how they're expected to work 30-40+ hours a week? Grow the fark up, Nancy.


Considering that going to school is 30-40 hours a week on its own, I'm guessing no. Throw a ton of homework and sports/extracurriculars on top of it and it is a lot to ask. And while you might think extracirriculars are unnecessary, good luck getting into college without them.

3-4 hours of homework a night is ridiculous, but banning it altogether is going way too far in the other direction.
 
2011-05-22 06:42:09 PM

Plexo: When one of my kids was in the fourth grade the teacher was assigning 3-4 hors of HW per night. At Parent teacher night I and the rest of the parents were objecting. This Fooking 23 year old teacher was lecturing us on how she felt it was her restorability to force this "bonding time" on us. When I mentioned that with 4 kids that even splitting the time between my wife and myself it would take till after midnight every day. You could see from the look on her face that it was the first time it had ever occurred to her.


You had four kids in the same class? How did that happen?
 
2011-05-22 06:42:21 PM

UncleStumpy: if you want to get rid of homework be prepared for being in class year round. which is more important, parents?


I'll take false dichotomies for $200 Alex.
 
2011-05-22 06:42:33 PM

apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.


In college homework doesnt consist of 4 hours of nightly busy work, you actually have to do things for a purpose, not crap like write the same sentence 50 times.
 
2011-05-22 06:42:37 PM
I know, lets drag the best and brightest of us down to the level of the worst drooling mess allowed outside of a medical institution. Lets make sure they listen every time the same stuff is repeated day in day out for the retard in the corner. Tie the release of knowledge to how many years it was since you left mommy`s cooch so everybody is homogenous like milk and future employers aren`t bothered by employees who `ask questions` or other bothersome traits.

/Why don`t we call `vocational qualifications` `slave certificates`?
 
2011-05-22 06:44:05 PM

apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.


This. I almost farked myself in college because I was easily skating by in high school. When I got to a real workload in college I basically had to retrain myself to get work done on time.
 
2011-05-22 06:47:21 PM

Brostorm: In college homework doesnt consist of 4 hours of nightly busy work, you actually have to do things for a purpose, not crap like write the same sentence 50 times.


That's the difference. In college homework is integral to the coursework. You're not just repeating stuff for the sake of it. Also in college in some classes the homework isn't even something to turn in or that necessarily has to be done on a given day. You get a few chapters to read in history, but that's it and as long as you get it read by your next exam you're good.
 
2011-05-22 06:48:58 PM
There was only one point in my schooling where I felt that too much homework was regularly given, and that was 7th grade, when I had to drop all of my extra-curriculars except one, and still didn't always finish everything. Of course, it came in handy when I found out that the reason I had so much homework was that my history teacher was teaching us 10th grade history instead, and three years later had the exact same homework, worksheets, and projects. My AP US history class also had a lot of busy work, such as a summary for every chapter, decade, war, and president, but I wanted to do well on the AP exam, so I did my best to get it all done (with all of my other AP homework - Physics and English Lit). Through high school, I had about 6 hours or so of homework a night. I had no time for other activities, really (though I did a bit of chess, some Mathletics, and a little volunteer stuff). The summer prior to senior year, I had to take my summer reading with me on vacation because I hadn't finished it yet (both AP Lit and AP US had summer work). I regularly decided just not to do busy work homework, except maybe in homeroom. For my first two years of math, homework was done as the teacher lectured. In Calc BC when I had the same teacher again, I refused to do most of the homework or pay attention in class until we got to student lectures. I had essentially no life outside of my homework, but I did go into college with 35 credits done (it would have been 44 if I had passed the AP Chem and US exams, and 47 if I had gotten a 5 on German instead of a 4). Yeah, it sucked sometimes, but I came out alright-ish (emphasis on the "ish," as my boyfriend, sitting next to me, kindly points out).
 
2011-05-22 06:49:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: Also in college in some classes the homework isn't even something to turn in or that necessarily has to be done on a given day.


Not to mention you typically only have 3-4 classes a day.
 
2011-05-22 06:50:51 PM

BeefyT: Would have commented sooner but I facepalmed so hard I was out for about 10 minutes.



Like this?
i140.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-22 06:51:42 PM

vulcanisiks: apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.

This. I almost farked myself in college because I was easily skating by in high school. When I got to a real workload in college I basically had to retrain myself to get work done on time.


Same here. It actually took me a year or two to get comfortable with doing hours of robust study/homework per night. I remember one day realizing that reading a book in one sitting was no longer a big deal. A bit of a revelation for me, considering how I managed to do pretty well in high school with minimal effort.
 
2011-05-22 06:53:11 PM

John Dewey: Not to mention you typically only have 3-4 classes a day.


And on top of that you don't have the same classes every day. In schools that work on the semester system, you might have classes that only meet twice a week.
 
2011-05-22 06:57:10 PM
Too much homework and their solution is to abolish it? I guess that these parents do not want their kids to do better than they did. They obviously want their kids to be stupid and to fail in life!
 
2011-05-22 06:57:59 PM

Brostorm: apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.

In college homework doesnt consist of 4 hours of nightly busy work, you actually have to do things for a purpose, not crap like write the same sentence 50 times.


It's not about what the specific task is, it's about the kids learning time management skills. If they have no homework, like the parent in the article is pushing for, they don't learn that. They'll get to college without any idea how to manage their time, and will be totally overwhelmed. I'm not saying that if they're really getting 6+ hours of homework a night in middle school the situation shouldn't be looked at, just that eliminating homework entirely would be detrimental to the kids' long term prospects.
 
2011-05-22 06:58:18 PM

WhyteRaven74: John Dewey: Not to mention you typically only have 3-4 classes a day.

And on top of that you don't have the same classes every day. In schools that work on the semester system, you might have classes that only meet twice a week.


Right, so a typical schedule looks like 3 1 hour classes MWF and 2 1.5 hour classes Tue and Thur. Basically, you're never in class more than 3 hours a day, leaving you a ton of time to get homework done.
 
2011-05-22 06:59:40 PM

vulcanisiks: apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.

This. I almost farked myself in college because I was easily skating by in high school. When I got to a real workload in college I basically had to retrain myself to get work done on time.


I got lazy my first semester: I didn't have things due the next day for classes and had less homework in general, so it was actually harder to keep myself honest. Granted, we had covered about half of calc 3 in my high school class, and chem was a joke, and both of them were in my first semester. The hardest part about college was when I got to differential equations and it didn't all just make sense to me anymore. And the professor was hard to understand, and the book sucked so I couldn't just teach myself. Other than getting sick and one biatchy professor, I skated through most of my college classes (the non-gen-ed ones)
 
2011-05-22 06:59:58 PM
Brostorm

THIS.

/Barely got through high school because of high homework load
//Dean's list in college
///Would bet most of the farkers complaining about this are decades out of school and think homework is still assigned at reasonable levels.
 
2011-05-22 07:01:24 PM

apoptotic: Brostorm: apoptotic: If these parents get their way, boy are they going to be surprised when their precious snowflakes flunk out of college because they can't handle the workload.

In college homework doesnt consist of 4 hours of nightly busy work, you actually have to do things for a purpose, not crap like write the same sentence 50 times.

It's not about what the specific task is, it's about the kids learning time management skills. If they have no homework, like the parent in the article is pushing for, they don't learn that. They'll get to college without any idea how to manage their time, and will be totally overwhelmed. I'm not saying that if they're really getting 6+ hours of homework a night in middle school the situation shouldn't be looked at, just that eliminating homework entirely would be detrimental to the kids' long term prospects.


Wrong. I never, ever got 4 hours of homework in college, ever. Homework itself is not bad, busywork is. Seeing 7 teachers a day for 5 days because they need to prove they are doing their job is not even in the same ballpark of the homework assigned in college, which you only meat with that teacher 2-3 times a week. Not sure if you are being willfully ignorant of just stupid.
 
2011-05-22 07:01:26 PM
As a high school teacher, I can say that it is true that some students will be up until 2am doing homework. It's not the lazy students either, but the highly motivated academic students. The students that don't care won't do it at all.

When students actually care about learning, they suffer the most. What we have is a system that tries to quantify something unquantifiable: learning does not equal grades, and homework does not equal academic rigor or excellence. Unfortunately, that is what the system has become: a numbers game.

Imagine if a school abolished homework: parents would be screaming bloody murder that teachers aren't assessing their students.

I would vote to increase the length of the school day and take sports out of high schools, as well as lessen the amount of homework. A part of that would involve coordination between departments and competance on the part of administration - both of which are rare enough as is, and getting teachers to agree on anything is like herding cats.


/Seriously considering getting out of public education
/turning kids into numbers makes them easier to sort - but what we value in them, they will start to value in each other. Is getting the same answer as everyone else what we value?
 
2011-05-22 07:01:35 PM
When I was in elementary school; I had a real problem doing homework. It's not because it was hard; it was because, shockingly, I didn't enjoy spending my free time doing make work. The school principle, sister mary pain in the ass, told my mom that I'd never graduate high school. This really upset my mom; because it was obvious that the school wasn't doing anything about it. So, she started making me do my homework infront of her; sometimes I was doing the same math problems and such till 11 pm at night or later. This was the same in high school; but run by a different nun. When I finally got to college and my teachers didn't hand out make work; my gpa shot up to 3.89. I was .01 gpa point away from being salutatorian in my graduating class. So, yeah, I'm a little vocal about the pointlessness of make work.

Cool story bro
 
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