So is River's timeline completely opposite to that of the Doctor? Why does her timeline go from the Series 5 closing two-parter TO the Series 6 opening two-parter?

Roook: That seems to make it more complicated.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that... It was easier to keep in my head without the timeline, TYVM. That and I don't really think that it captures the actual events very well. It certainly doesn't show how much they move around in both time and space. A much better timeline would include both the character-relative time as well as liner time, like when they hop from the distant past way into the future and the like.

The time line is wrong. The Pandorica happens before the crash of the Byzantium for River Song, not after. But the Impossible Astronaut and The Day of the Moon happen after both for River Song. And, before the Silence in the Library she'll meet a future version of the Doctor, not the current version that she's not completely romantically and sexually involved with.

Her time line isn't in the reverse order completely, she does briefly meet up with a Doctor that they're mostly on even grounds with in the beginning of the Impossible Astronaut, but it is going in a general opposite direction. A time line like the one in the link might as well just draw a ball of squiggly lines and call it a day, that's the only way to sort out that wibbly wobbly for now.

Confabulat: Tachikoma: And, before the Silence in the Library she'll meet a future version of the Doctor, not the current version that she's not completely romantically and sexually involved with

David Tennant was the Doctor during that episode. Isn't Matt Smith already the future doctor?

Smith's current Doctor isn't the Doctor she meets before she dies. That Doctor takes her on a romantic night to the Singing Towers. Smith's current Doctor couldn't even figure out where to place his hands when she kissed him. The current Doctor isn't the Doctor that gave her his sonic screwdriver, though Smith's Doctor may become that Doctor at a future point.

Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

Funny how these buggers couldn't greenlight this a few weeks ago when I submitted it.

/a little bitter
//but not too much
///in the middle of series 3, so I'm out!

That is the worst key to a chart I have ever seen.

xkcd would probably do a good job of this.

Anyone know why Amazon has the newest episode up but not iTunes?

List fails without a picture of Matt Smith on waterskis. Oh wait...here is one:

As a giant nerd, can I just say...

DR WHO SUCKS!

Dwayne Bansey: As a giant nerd, can I just say...

DR WHO SUCKS!

Balchinian: List fails without a picture of Matt Smith on waterskis. Oh wait...here is one:

There's always at least 1 of you.

UNC_Samurai: So is River's timeline completely opposite to that of the Doctor? Why does her timeline go from the Series 5 closing two-parter TO the Series 6 opening two-parter?

Yeah. Her past is his future. By the time she'll meet him for the first time in her life it will be the last time he will see her.

Pawn takes the King: Watched half of the new episode last night, but was wibbly wobbly drunky monkey and fell asleep. Something about snowglobes, solar storms, and doppelgangers. I'll finish on my lunch break today.

Long story short: We now have a new reason/explanation as to who murdered the 1106-year-old Doctor, and why.

Tachikoma: Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

but if Smith is the "last" Doctor how can that be? did he regenerate twice so he was back to Smith?

NYRBill: Tachikoma: Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

but if Smith is the "last" Doctor how can that be? did he regenerate twice so he was back to Smith?

I really would not believe that Smith is the last doctor. Yes, he died in he first episode, permanently. But there is going to be a way around. Probably a very timey wimey, paradoxical explanation. I just hope it has nothing to do with this living flesh stuff.

ActionJoe: NYRBill: Tachikoma: Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

but if Smith is the "last" Doctor how can that be? did he regenerate twice so he was back to Smith?

I really would not believe that Smith is the last doctor. Yes, he died in he first episode, permanently. But there is going to be a way around. Probably a very timey wimey, paradoxical explanation. I just hope it has nothing to do with this living flesh stuff.

I'm thinking that the Living Flesh Doctor is the one that dies.

hetheeme: I'm thinking that the Living Flesh Doctor is the one that dies.

that would be quite a cop out

hetheeme: ActionJoe: NYRBill: Tachikoma: Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

but if Smith is the "last" Doctor how can that be? did he regenerate twice so he was back to Smith?

I really would not believe that Smith is the last doctor. Yes, he died in he first episode, permanently. But there is going to be a way around. Probably a very timey wimey, paradoxical explanation. I just hope it has nothing to do with this living flesh stuff.

I'm thinking that the Living Flesh Doctor is the one that dies.

I doubt it, I'm not thinking the Flesh can gain the ability to regenerate like the Doctor started to do before he died.

NYRBill: hetheeme: I'm thinking that the Living Flesh Doctor is the one that dies.

that would be quite a cop out

rickycal78: hetheeme: ActionJoe: NYRBill: Tachikoma: Time travel, remember? So Smith's current Doctor is a future Doctor to Tennant's Doctor, but Smith's current Doctor isn't the future Doctor that she was talking about that took her to the Singing Towers.

but if Smith is the "last" Doctor how can that be? did he regenerate twice so he was back to Smith?

I really would not believe that Smith is the last doctor. Yes, he died in he first episode, permanently. But there is going to be a way around. Probably a very timey wimey, paradoxical explanation. I just hope it has nothing to do with this living flesh stuff.

I'm thinking that the Living Flesh Doctor is the one that dies.

I doubt it, I'm not thinking the Flesh can gain the ability to regenerate like the Doctor started to do before he died.

Both excellent points, it probably won't come out that way, especially because of the regeneration and the fact that Stephen Moffat isn't a hack.

I'm really hoping we get an answer about the creepy hatch lady before the break, at least something to let us generate a ton of theories to discuss if not a full answer.

Any explanation why Turn Left isn't listed as a Donna episode?

I thought that there was an interview with Moffat at the beginning or before the start of this SEASON (sorry, Brits) where he said that it was going to be a main character. a real one. that dies for sure.

Long story short: We now have a new reason/explanation as to who murdered the 1106-year-old Doctor, and why.
I'll probably eat these words, but aside from Eye-patch-woman, this feels like a standalone story to me, despite it being a two-parter.

ubermensch: Any explanation why Turn Left isn't listed as a Donna episode?

Take a closer look. You'll see a note to the side showing "Turn Left" alternate events as a Donna Episode. If you'll remember, the way things went, Turn left was a "What would happen if Donna never met the Doctor" kind of episode, so you saw the world as if she didn't.

I haven't paid attention to the new Doctors (actually, I haven't paid attention since Peter Davidson left), but I notice that Jack Harkness and Sarah Jane's paths cross at one point. So did he bang her?

rickycal78: ubermensch: Any explanation why Turn Left isn't listed as a Donna episode?

Take a closer look. You'll see a note to the side showing "Turn Left" alternate events as a Donna Episode. If you'll remember, the way things went, Turn left was a "What would happen if Donna never met the Doctor" kind of episode, so you saw the world as if she didn't.


But the whole episode is centered on Donna having that back-critter. The episode is ALL about Donna

ubermensch: rickycal78: ubermensch: Any explanation why Turn Left isn't listed as a Donna episode?

Take a closer look. You'll see a note to the side showing "Turn Left" alternate events as a Donna Episode. If you'll remember, the way things went, Turn left was a "What would happen if Donna never met the Doctor" kind of episode, so you saw the world as if she didn't.


But the whole episode is centered on Donna having that back-critter. The episode is ALL about Donna

Don't biatch at me, I didn't make the chart. Only thing I can figure is they did the 2 different timelines on it like shown. One timeline has the Doctor with Donna, the other timeline doesn't, which is kind of the point of the episode.

ZeroCorpse: Yeah. The chart is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. We don't know that Silence in the Library is River's actual last encounter with The Doctor. Her data ghost survives. The Doctor knew that was coming, he arranged for his past self to save her in the Library, and there's no reason he can't go back there in the future and download her from the Library into some new body, or into the TARDIS, or whatever he happens to think of.

He didn't do this as #10 because #10 had no real emotional tie to her. However, by the time he's #12, he's going to have every reason to want to rescue River from the Library and bring her back into the world. All he needs is a place to transfer her data ghost, and boom! River's back.

How many times has he appeared in just the right time and place to rescue her from imminent death? Surely he could go back to the Library ten seconds after his past regeneration left with Donna, and pull River out?

He'd have to deal with the Vashta Nerada all over again. Remember, they stayed there, just gave them a day to clear everyone out.

ZeroCorpse: Yeah. The chart is full of assumptions and inaccuracies. We don't know that Silence in the Library is River's actual last encounter with The Doctor. Her data ghost survives. The Doctor knew that was coming, he arranged for his past self to save her in the Library, and there's no reason he can't go back there in the future and download her from the Library into some new body, or into the TARDIS, or whatever he happens to think of.

He didn't do this as #10 because #10 had no real emotional tie to her. However, by the time he's #12, he's going to have every reason to want to rescue River from the Library and bring her back into the world. All he needs is a place to transfer her data ghost, and boom! River's back.

How many times has he appeared in just the right time and place to rescue her from imminent death? Surely he could go back to the Library ten seconds after his past regeneration left with Donna, and pull River out?

It would be completely cheap, but I suppose her data ghost could be used with the Flesh to create a new body with her memories.

rickycal78: ubermensch: Any explanation why Turn Left isn't listed as a Donna episode?

Take a closer look. You'll see a note to the side showing "Turn Left" alternate events as a Donna Episode. If you'll remember, the way things went, Turn left was a "What would happen if Donna never met the Doctor" kind of episode, so you saw the world as if she didn't.

Alternate explanation- some people have a massive Rose love-fest going on. She was in it, so it's a Rose episode. Ugh.

Wimpy, Wompy, Wambly

I'll be more impressed if someone puts the events of the show in chronological order, not just the order The Doctor experienced them in.

Jocundry: rickycal78: He'd have to deal with the Vashta Nerada all over again. Remember, they stayed there, just gave them a day to clear everyone out.

But if 11 or 12 swoops in 10 seconds after 10 leaves, it will still be the same day.

/assuming 10 didn't wait until the last moment to leave.
//even so, he could just say "I'm the Doctor, biatches" like he did before to get the Vashta Nerada to leave him alone

He could go in at midday the next day because the VN stick to the shadows. Materialize right up against the library core (or around it). Take the data. Leave.

I tried to watch a Dr. Who for the first time on Netflix. Started with a girl getting chased by manequins. If I wan't to get "into" Dr. Who is this a good place to start?

Gangway Fathead: I tried to watch a Dr. Who for the first time on Netflix. Started with a girl getting chased by manequins. If I wan't to get "into" Dr. Who is this a good place to start?

That's a good place to start, but watch that episode mostly as establishing. It's not a great one on its own. In fact, the second one is only OK too, but it does establish some characters and important story-arc stuff.

The 2005 series slowly gets better, and really hits its stride around Episode 6.

I thought the Big band happened after Impossible Astronaut for River because she knew what was coming, she said "That's when everything changes". On the other hand , that would mean she was meeting Amy and Rory for the first time in Astronaut, even though they would remember her.

/Now I am just confused
//Need to see Jimmy the Fish's timeline.

Gangway Fathead: I tried to watch a Dr. Who for the first time on Netflix. Started with a girl getting chased by manequins. If I wan't to get "into" Dr. Who is this a good place to start?

Kinda.

Basically, that's (new series) Season(Series) 1, Episode 1. It's great for introducing yourself to characters and enjoying some of the overarching plotlines. However, as you may have noticed, it's one of the cheesier episodes they made (which is really saying something. I love the show, but anti-plastic is about as good as it gets plausibility-wise).

If you're looking to watch the series, start where you are.

If you're looking for an episode (or two-parter) to see if you'll like Dr. Who or not, I'd say no. My personal list of good tryout episodes is (in chronological order):

1.6: Dalek.
1.9-10: Empty Child/Doctor Dances
(9 to 10 transition here)
2.4: Girl in the Fireplace
3.2: The Shakespeare Code
3.10: Blink
4.2: Fires of Pompeii
4.6: Doctor's Daughter
4.8/4.9: Silence in The Library/Forest of the Dead
(10 to 11 transition here, as well as Steven Moffat's start as showrunner)
5.1: The Eleventh Hour (has the advantage of being a soft reboot)
5.10: Vincent and The Doctor


/And before people start screaming about the list, the criteria is that it has to be a)good, and b)self-contained. I really, really liked (for example) The End Of Time, but it's a really, really horrible place to start watching.

//Warning: At least half of the above are Moffat eps, which means they go in for slow psychological horror that will leave you first hiding behind the couch, and then hiding as far away from the couch as possible (though usually with a body count of 0).

///And they call it a kids's show.

meyerkev: Gangway Fathead: I tried to watch a Dr. Who for the first time on Netflix. Started with a girl getting chased by manequins. If I wan't to get "into" Dr. Who is this a good place to start?

Kinda.

Basically, that's (new series) Season(Series) 1, Episode 1. It's great for introducing yourself to characters and enjoying some of the overarching plotlines. However, as you may have noticed, it's one of the cheesier episodes they made (which is really saying something. I love the show, but anti-plastic is about as good as it gets plausibility-wise).

If you're looking to watch the series, start where you are.

If you're looking for an episode (or two-parter) to see if you'll like Dr. Who or not, I'd say no. My personal list of good tryout episodes is (in chronological order):

1.6: Dalek.
1.9-10: Empty Child/Doctor Dances
(9 to 10 transition here)
2.4: Girl in the Fireplace
3.2: The Shakespeare Code
3.10: Blink
4.2: Fires of Pompeii
4.6: Doctor's Daughter
4.8/4.9: Silence in The Library/Forest of the Dead
(10 to 11 transition here, as well as Steven Moffat's start as showrunner)
5.1: The Eleventh Hour (has the advantage of being a soft reboot)
5.10: Vincent and The Doctor


/And before people start screaming about the list, the criteria is that it has to be a)good, and b)self-contained. I really, really liked (for example) The End Of Time, but it's a really, really horrible place to start watching.

//Warning: At least half of the above are Moffat eps, which means they go in for slow psychological horror that will leave you first hiding behind the couch, and then hiding as far away from the couch as possible (though usually with a body count of 0).

///And they call it a kids's show.

Thanks for the detailed answer (all the answers in fact) --- what does "1.6" mean. Sixth episode of1st series, I assume - does that mean of the WHOLE Dr. Who experience of of this reboot?

Sorry if that sounds dense. I know Dr Who has been around for decades...

Gangway Fathead: meyerkev: Gangway Fathead: I tried to watch a Dr. Who for the first time on Netflix. Started with a girl getting chased by manequins. If I wan't to get "into" Dr. Who is this a good place to start?

Kinda.

Basically, that's (new series) Season(Series) 1, Episode 1. It's great for introducing yourself to characters and enjoying some of the overarching plotlines. However, as you may have noticed, it's one of the cheesier episodes they made (which is really saying something. I love the show, but anti-plastic is about as good as it gets plausibility-wise).

If you're looking to watch the series, start where you are.

If you're looking for an episode (or two-parter) to see if you'll like Dr. Who or not, I'd say no. My personal list of good tryout episodes is (in chronological order):

1.6: Dalek.
1.9-10: Empty Child/Doctor Dances
(9 to 10 transition here)
2.4: Girl in the Fireplace
3.2: The Shakespeare Code
3.10: Blink
4.2: Fires of Pompeii
4.6: Doctor's Daughter
4.8/4.9: Silence in The Library/Forest of the Dead
(10 to 11 transition here, as well as Steven Moffat's start as showrunner)
5.1: The Eleventh Hour (has the advantage of being a soft reboot)
5.10: Vincent and The Doctor


/And before people start screaming about the list, the criteria is that it has to be a)good, and b)self-contained. I really, really liked (for example) The End Of Time, but it's a really, really horrible place to start watching.

//Warning: At least half of the above are Moffat eps, which means they go in for slow psychological horror that will leave you first hiding behind the couch, and then hiding as far away from the couch as possible (though usually with a body count of 0).

///And they call it a kids's show.

Thanks for the detailed answer (all the answers in fact) --- what does "1.6" mean. Sixth episode of1st series, I assume - does that mean of the WHOLE Dr. Who experience of of this reboot?

Sorry if that sounds dense. I know Dr Who has been around for decades...

The numbering system he gave you starts with the 2005 reboot, so season 1 of the new episodes, episode 6, Dalek. One of my favorites. I would have included 2:3 School Reunion, but that's up to personal taste.

Gangway Fathead: Thanks for the detailed answer (all the answers in fact) --- what does "1.6" mean. Sixth episode of1st series, I assume - does that mean of the WHOLE Dr. Who experience of of this reboot?

Sorry if that sounds dense. I know Dr Who has been around for decades...

x.y = yth episode of xth series of this reboot. Sorry for any confuision.

//Haven't watched any classic wh