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(My Fox DC)   Virginia Historical Society puts collection of oddities on display, is surprised when CDC arrives in full biohazard gear to remove the piece with smallpox   (myfoxdc.com) divider line 46
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9534 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 May 2011 at 11:43 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-19 11:48:23 AM
Vagina Historical Society puts collection of oddities on display, is surprised when CDC arrives in full biohazard gear to remove the piece with smallpox

Also works.
 
2011-05-19 11:48:32 AM
Mmmmm. Scabs
 
2011-05-19 11:49:04 AM
Scab thread?

t0.gstatic.com
 
2011-05-19 11:50:38 AM

BurnShrike: Scab thread?


The teamsters won't be too happy about this.
 
2011-05-19 11:51:20 AM
Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."
 
2011-05-19 11:52:05 AM
Reminds me of the old joke: "What's the definition of gross?". Eating a bowl of cornflakes and finding out it was your brother's scab collection.
 
2011-05-19 11:53:11 AM
Scab thread!

cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2011-05-19 11:57:19 AM

johan heggs tiny man nipples: Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."


Basically, in case either A) the other people with samples lose it/decide to release it/release it by accident, or B) There's some unknown 'wild' reservoir that man hasn't been in contact with for a long, long time.

Because I think it's easier to make vaccines when you have a copy of the virus on-hand?
 
2011-05-19 11:57:55 AM
"I will pin this to the letter so that you cannot lose it as you did before."

I LOLed.
 
2011-05-19 11:58:34 AM
Only a couple miles from me. Luckily I was vaccinated when I was a kid so I'm safe.
 
2011-05-19 11:58:35 AM
johan heggs tiny man nipples


I believe they retain them so that if something else pops up similar they have something to use for research.


Meh...I don't care. I got vaccinated in the Army. Lemme tell you if you haven't had one: Instant flu-like symptoms.
 
2011-05-19 12:01:03 PM
I remember years ago there was a big discussion about destroying the samples the CDC had frozen. Obviously they decided to keep it.
 
2011-05-19 12:01:34 PM
Not worried at all.
the earth population could use a little thinning.
Had my shot years ago. SUCKS to be young when it come to SP now you young whipper snappers:
www.bt.cdc.gov
 
2011-05-19 12:02:13 PM

johan heggs tiny man nipples: Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."


That is the entire justification for our bioweapons biodefense research.

In case the other guys violate an international treaty banning biological weapons research.

//Deter, then retaliate in kind applies to more than just nukes.
 
2011-05-19 12:04:35 PM
House did it.
 
2011-05-19 12:05:42 PM
they took it back?
Indian givers.
 
2011-05-19 12:08:22 PM

johan heggs tiny man nipples: Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."


There are two official repositories for smallpox. The United States Centers for Disease Control, and Vector in Russia.

The US and Russia are the ones picked because when small pox was eradicated the cold war was on and neither the U.S. or Soviets would accept a deal where they had to give up their stocks and the other keep it.

Now, Small Pox used to be studied in a myriad of places all over the world. It wasn't contained in the absolute maximum of security like it is now because it was a fairly common disease. In today's world it is kept under maximum security because
1) Its highly infectious and deadly
2) We no longer have the established apparatus to contain/respond outbreaks
3) We no longer require vaccination

If it should get out, it could be very, very bad.

The answer to why we kept it alive at all instead of just destroying everything is because we were hedging our bets. Sure, it appeared the virus was completely eradicated. However one never knows what old Dr's keep in their freezers underneath the inch of frost they should have cleaned out years ago. Or the Dr. who didn't want to give up his prized collections. etc. etc.

We could never be absolutely fully certain small pox would never come back, so they kept the virus around for research purposes and, if necessary, vaccine generation.

The decision to not destroy all stocks is still debated about. After all, the risk of a resurgence naturally, or from an old sample, or what have you is of course low: it hasn't happened yet, if it ever does happen. However, is it high enough for the risk of keeping known virulent strains of small pox in approximate known locations? So far the decision has not resulted in any negative consequences. The future will decide if that holds true.
 
2011-05-19 12:08:50 PM
The comments on the article's page include a "the democrats made the banks give unsecure home loans" post. It has the most likes. That made me lol.
 
2011-05-19 12:11:07 PM

swangoatman: Not worried at all.
the earth population could use a little thinning.
Had my shot years ago. SUCKS to be young when it come to SP now you young whipper snappers:


Your vaccination is only good for 10 years without boosters. You're just as screwed as the whipper snappers.
 
2011-05-19 12:11:14 PM

swangoatman: Not worried at all.
the earth population could use a little thinning.
Had my shot years ago. SUCKS to be young when it come to SP now you young whipper snappers:


Mine damned scar lasted about a month and a half and oozed for weeks. Most annoying vaccination ever.

I still find it hard to believe the best vaccination technique is mauling your arm with a bifurcated needle. Surely science could have improved on that.
 
2011-05-19 12:12:24 PM

RexTalionis: swangoatman: Not worried at all.
the earth population could use a little thinning.
Had my shot years ago. SUCKS to be young when it come to SP now you young whipper snappers:

Your vaccination is only good for 10 years without boosters. You're just as screwed as the whipper snappers.


Not to mention if it came to a biological release there exists some strains of small pox so virulent they are capable of blowing through a vaccine anyway...
 
2011-05-19 12:13:38 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: RexTalionis: swangoatman: Not worried at all.
the earth population could use a little thinning.
Had my shot years ago. SUCKS to be young when it come to SP now you young whipper snappers:

Your vaccination is only good for 10 years without boosters. You're just as screwed as the whipper snappers.

Not to mention if it came to a biological release there exists some strains of small pox so virulent they are capable of blowing through a vaccine anyway...


Yep.
 
2011-05-19 12:13:48 PM
Wasn't this on House just last week?
 
2011-05-19 12:15:18 PM
www.metalsucks.net
 
2011-05-19 12:15:18 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: The answer to why we kept it alive at all instead of just destroying everything is because we were hedging our bets. Sure, it appeared the virus was completely eradicated. However one never knows what old Dr's keep in their freezers underneath the inch of frost they should have cleaned out years ago. Or the Dr. who didn't want to give up his prized collections. etc. etc.


There's also the part were the Soviets weaponized it and probably gave it to their friends.
 
2011-05-19 12:22:27 PM
Wicked Chinchilla Quote 2011-05-19 12:08:22 PM
johan heggs tiny man nipples: Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."

There are two official repositories for smallpox. The United States Centers for Disease Control, and Vector in Russia.

The US and Russia are the ones picked because when small pox was eradicated the cold war was on and neither the U.S. or Soviets would accept a deal where they had to give up their stocks and the other keep it.

Now, Small Pox used to be studied in a myriad of places all over the world. It wasn't contained in the absolute maximum of security like it is now because it was a fairly common disease. In today's world it is kept under maximum security because
1) Its highly infectious and deadly
2) We no longer have the established apparatus to contain/respond outbreaks
3) We no longer require vaccination

If it should get out, it could be very, very bad.

The answer to why we kept it alive at all instead of just destroying everything is because we were hedging our bets. Sure, it appeared the virus was completely eradicated. However one never knows what old Dr's keep in their freezers underneath the inch of frost they should have cleaned out years ago. Or the Dr. who didn't want to give up his prized collections. etc. etc.

We could never be absolutely fully certain small pox would never come back, so they kept the virus around for research purposes and, if necessary, vaccine generation.

The decision to not destroy all stocks is still debated about. After all, the risk of a resurgence naturally, or from an old sample, or what have you is of course low: it hasn't happened yet, if it ever does happen. However, is it high enough for the risk of keeping known virulent strains of small pox in approximate known locations? So far the decision has not resulted in any negative consequences. The future will decide if that holds true.


Fair Enuff, but I guess I'm a dreamer. I think any sane person would LIKE a world where we don't have to farking save viruses "in case."

I saw a thing on the military channel last year sometime about the US vs USSR bio weapons race, and they showed a lab in the Russian steppe somewhere that had fermenters for Anthrax that could make enough weaponized anthrax to kill everyone on earth 100 times or something ridiculous like that....

Humans, seriously WTF?!?!?
 
2011-05-19 12:28:43 PM
CDC microbiologists determined within a few hours that the scab contained virus from the smallpox vaccine but did not contain the deadly disease virus itself.


?? What does this mean??
 
2011-05-19 12:32:58 PM

Spade: Wicked Chinchilla: The answer to why we kept it alive at all instead of just destroying everything is because we were hedging our bets. Sure, it appeared the virus was completely eradicated. However one never knows what old Dr's keep in their freezers underneath the inch of frost they should have cleaned out years ago. Or the Dr. who didn't want to give up his prized collections. etc. etc.

There's also the part were the Soviets weaponized it and probably gave it to their friends.


If there was an attack with weaponized small pox the stock at the CDC isn't going to help much. In such a scenario we'd need stockpiles of vaccine not virus.

Likewise with the idea of keeping the stock pile as any sort of deterrent. That would make about as much sense as keeping a uranium mine as a deterrent from getting nuked.
 
2011-05-19 12:35:30 PM
i446.photobucket.com
I apologize...

i446.photobucket.com
SHUT THE FARK UP!
 
2011-05-19 12:38:06 PM

Lanny Budd: CDC microbiologists determined within a few hours that the scab contained virus from the smallpox vaccine but did not contain the deadly disease virus itself.


?? What does this mean??


Could mean a number of things:
When you get your small pox vaccination currently you don't get Variola (actual small pox) you get vaccinia which is a pox virus which is related to small pox.

So, not knowing anything exact about vaccinations 100+ years ago it could mean that instead of variola the scab has vaccinia. Of course Jenner used Cow Pox to vaccinate against small pox, so if that was still being used then it could be cow pox.

Other vaccines, like flu for example, will use killed virus or attenuated virus.
1) Killed virus: pretty self explanatory as the virus itself is used but is killed or inactivated through various means so its noninfectious, but the body will still respond to the foreign material
2) Attenuated virus: uses a live virus that has been weakend or made non-infectious. They can clone genes of your targeted virus into a tertiary virus so that it walks, talks, and quacks like the virus your trying to vaccinate against, but won't bite you. Alternatively you can just use the wild-type virus and remove the nasty bits that cuase sickness.

These are brief summaries and oversimplifications, but you get the idea.

Anthrax is pretty bad, but botulism is pound for pound the most deadly substance on earth I think.
 
2011-05-19 12:40:06 PM
"Full biohazard gear" is not the same as "disposable surgical gowns and gloves" (FTFA).

Hyperbolic subby is hyperbolic.
 
2011-05-19 12:41:21 PM

Doubleodoug: Spade: Wicked Chinchilla: The answer to why we kept it alive at all instead of just destroying everything is because we were hedging our bets. Sure, it appeared the virus was completely eradicated. However one never knows what old Dr's keep in their freezers underneath the inch of frost they should have cleaned out years ago. Or the Dr. who didn't want to give up his prized collections. etc. etc.

There's also the part were the Soviets weaponized it and probably gave it to their friends.

If there was an attack with weaponized small pox the stock at the CDC isn't going to help much. In such a scenario we'd need stockpiles of vaccine not virus.

Likewise with the idea of keeping the stock pile as any sort of deterrent. That would make about as much sense as keeping a uranium mine as a deterrent from getting nuked.


You need live virus to get vaccines. If we really regarded a small pox attack as a serious threat we would stockpile vaccines. As it stands it is not, but we want to keep some around just in case that very, very, very low probability but extremely high consequence event happens. Although I am pretty sure the WHO keeps/kept a couple hundred thousand doses of vaccine around...or used to at least.
 
2011-05-19 12:44:54 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

Scab...I pick you!
 
2011-05-19 12:50:34 PM

johan heggs tiny man nipples: Why keep small pox? Seems to me the world would be better off without caches of viruses. It's not like its even part of the food chain. Only argument I can fathom is "in case the badguys get some."


Because there's a surprisingly large amount of useful information that we can still learn from that particular virus.

In other news, right about now I almost wish I still worked at the state health lab... Must have been a fun day in the Virology & Immunology department when that went down.
 
2011-05-19 01:07:40 PM
The main reason for keeping the Smallpox virus, as stated, is insurance in case it is accidentally or intentionally released "into the wild" where it is "extinct".

But it may also prove useful if another virus from the same family becomes virulent or is weaponized. About 1% of the European population of the world has genetic protection agains HIV. In some areas of Eastern Europe, this runs to about 10%. The pattern of genetic protection suggests that it is the ressemblance of HIV to the plague that is responsible--some people were naturally immune to the plague, and death was so widespread that natural selection encouraged the reproduction of these people, leaving a solid minority of survivors in plague-afflicted countries immune.

Having the smallpox virus may yet yield tremendous insights into the history of viruses or into their treatment.

Basically it pays to never throw anything out if you can store it properly.

And, as pointed out, we can't trust everybody to cooperate in the complete annihilation of the virus: there is a tremendous incentive to cheat for military, political or even scientific advantage.
 
2011-05-19 01:13:39 PM
It belongs in a museum!!!

spyhunter007.com

/hot like an arc
 
2011-05-19 01:24:28 PM

brantgoose: The main reason for keeping the Smallpox virus, as stated, is insurance in case it is accidentally or intentionally released "into the wild" where it is "extinct".

But it may also prove useful if another virus from the same family becomes virulent or is weaponized. About 1% of the European population of the world has genetic protection agains HIV. In some areas of Eastern Europe, this runs to about 10%. The pattern of genetic protection suggests that it is the ressemblance of HIV to the plague that is responsible--some people were naturally immune to the plague, and death was so widespread that natural selection encouraged the reproduction of these people, leaving a solid minority of survivors in plague-afflicted countries immune.

Having the smallpox virus may yet yield tremendous insights into the history of viruses or into their treatment.

Basically it pays to never throw anything out if you can store it properly.

And, as pointed out, we can't trust everybody to cooperate in the complete annihilation of the virus: there is a tremendous incentive to cheat for military, political or even scientific advantage.


There was an article here on fark regarding a Soviet scientist that defected after learning the reasons why the USSR was so gung-ho on eliminating small pox.

They had it weaponized and were just waiting to deploy it against an unvaccinated enemy population in the future.
 
2011-05-19 01:32:28 PM
SMALLPOX VIRUS IS NOT USED TO MAKE THE VACCINE

CDC (new window)

SMALLPOX FACT SHEET
The Live Virus Smallpox Vaccine

The vaccinia virus is the "live virus" used in the smallpox vaccine. It is a "pox"-type virus related to smallpox. When given to humans as a vaccine, it helps the body to develop immunity to smallpox. The smallpox vaccine does not contain the smallpox virus and it cannot cause smallpox.
 
2011-05-19 01:36:24 PM

meat0918: brantgoose: The main reason for keeping the Smallpox virus, as stated, is insurance in case it is accidentally or intentionally released "into the wild" where it is "extinct".

But it may also prove useful if another virus from the same family becomes virulent or is weaponized. About 1% of the European population of the world has genetic protection agains HIV. In some areas of Eastern Europe, this runs to about 10%. The pattern of genetic protection suggests that it is the ressemblance of HIV to the plague that is responsible--some people were naturally immune to the plague, and death was so widespread that natural selection encouraged the reproduction of these people, leaving a solid minority of survivors in plague-afflicted countries immune.

Having the smallpox virus may yet yield tremendous insights into the history of viruses or into their treatment.

Basically it pays to never throw anything out if you can store it properly.

And, as pointed out, we can't trust everybody to cooperate in the complete annihilation of the virus: there is a tremendous incentive to cheat for military, political or even scientific advantage.

There was an article here on fark regarding a Soviet scientist that defected after learning the reasons why the USSR was so gung-ho on eliminating small pox.

They had it weaponized and were just waiting to deploy it against an unvaccinated enemy population in the future.


Well, they weren't "waiting" like some Bond movie villain biding their time for the perfect moment. That was one aspect of eliminating small pox which could work out in the favor of those nation's who weaponized it. You also have to figure the real cost of having small pox around vs. eliminating it.

Remember: in 1967 just prior to eradication it is estimated there were around 10-15 million cases...ANNUALLY. Of these about 25% were fatal cases. Thats a lot of people dieing, and every modern nation required vaccination. It wasn't like malaria which sticks to a specific climatic region (that of its host animal.) Whether or not it would make a perfect bio weapon (it did, look at what it did to the native Americans), the real monetary and human cost of not eliminating small pox were significant. It was the smart, and humane, move to eradicate it.

Just because there are also some not so G-rated motives for doing so doesn't invalidate eradication being a good thing. Of course, thats why we kept a little bit around just in case of the crazy, clumsy, or just plain stupid.
 
2011-05-19 01:40:23 PM

Wuphon's Dream: SMALLPOX VIRUS IS NOT USED TO MAKE THE VACCINE

CDC (new window)

SMALLPOX FACT SHEET
The Live Virus Smallpox Vaccine

The vaccinia virus is the "live virus" used in the smallpox vaccine. It is a "pox"-type virus related to smallpox. When given to humans as a vaccine, it helps the body to develop immunity to smallpox. The smallpox vaccine does not contain the smallpox virus and it cannot cause smallpox.


You don't need smallpox for the production of your vaccine, you need it to test the efficacy. You can't just make a vaccine without validation.
 
2011-05-19 02:16:45 PM
I was confused by the article until I realized they must mean the sample actually contains cowpox, not smallpox. Bad wording the writer's part.
 
2011-05-19 02:29:59 PM
It DOESN'T belong in a museum!

www.indy4.info
 
2011-05-19 04:08:59 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: I still find it hard to believe the best vaccination technique is mauling your arm with a bifurcated needle. Surely science could have improved on that.


Well, the next best option involves your urethra, so it's not much of a win.

/okay, I'm lying
/but I made ya wince, didn't I? Huh? Huh?
 
2011-05-19 05:56:18 PM
Awesome, I know children who are researching diseases like Small Pox, the Plague, Hepatitis and other infectious illnesses. They're going to love this article.
 
2011-05-19 06:23:36 PM
This: from CDC

After the events of September and October, 2001, however, the U.S. government took further actions to improve its level of preparedness against terrorism. One of many such measures-designed specifically to prepare for an intentional release of the smallpox virus-included updating and releasing a smallpox response plan. In addition, the U.S. government has enough vaccine to vaccinate every person in the United States in the event of a smallpox emergency.

AND this from CDC:
Smallpox vaccination provides high level immunity for 3 to 5 years and decreasing immunity thereafter. If a person is vaccinated again later, immunity lasts even longer.

AND THIS; as I was given a shot in 1968 and then my brother became infected while on active duty and I was re-shot in 1971 since my ma and pa were allowed to visit him,I believe I can RULE THIS world, even if I got another shot it would be like a breeze.
HATERS keep on Hating
AND I am so proud that so many folks love me.
 
2011-05-19 11:15:15 PM
Virginia Tag
?
 
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