Ed Finnerty: Scat Related: 1

Japan, not Germany.

Ninjas.

If they don't die in the first few weeks from radiation poisoning, for which I believe none of the employees got a high enough dose for that to happen anyway, then none of them are going to die anytime soon.

There will probably be a handful of cancer related deaths in the future because of this, but it is way too soon for that to show up.

There were the two guys that bought it in the initial tsunami because they, for unknown reasons, failed to evacuate, and then the most recent guy died of overwork or stress or something.

NEVER eat sushi burritos before getting inside an airtight suit!

No, no, those aren't deaths from radiation. they're from spontaneous organ failure relating to all their cells somehow becoming mutated, which, per union standards, can't officially be linked to massive radiation poisoning.

Oh, wait, this is japan. They don't need the union excuse.

I'm sorry, but comon. They must think we're morons. Fark libs what is. They jsut had a story the other day about the radiation.

I'll be surprised if people can live there in a million years.

Well technically the guys that died in the SL-1 reactor disaster didn't die of radiation. The explosion killed them first.

Give it 2 years and you will see lots of deaths that were not caused by radiation but were mere total coincidence, yea, that's it complete coincidence.

I think there is a business opportunity in selling uranium jewelry to radiation-deniers (AKA Fox News viewers)

Somaticasual: No, no, those aren't deaths from radiation. they're from spontaneous organ failure relating to all their cells somehow becoming mutated, which, per union standards, can't officially be linked to massive radiation poisoning.

Oh, wait, this is japan. They don't need the union excuse.

You've gone completely off the deep end.

Also, this
Karoshi (new window)

Japanese have a history of dying from overwork. The radiation damage probably wasn't doing him any favors, but it wasn't enough to kill him. Stress on the other hand, apparently was.

They said the guy had heat stroke and then a heart attack. The 2 hours it took TEPCO to get the guy to the hospital because they had no medical staff and they drove him in a car most of the way, had nothing to do with it...

The crap coming out of this disaster is nightmarish. A temp worker that had truck driving experience took what he was told was a job driving truck for the tsunami clean up. He was put on a bus and taken to Fukushima to do liquidation work that had nothing to do with driving a truck.

A guy that was a sub contractor was put to work installing hoses. He had no plumbing experience and the connections required some level of plumbing knowledge. The people he was working with dropped the hose in radioactive water in the turbine building because they were heavy. Then they had to pick up the hose to move it. He got hit with the wet hose in the back of the neck. The protection suits they were wearing are not waterproof and he has contamination they can't remove on the back of his neck.

TEPCO is finally being forced to admit what a clusterfark this is. All 3 reactors are melted down and they don't know for sure where the melted rods really are. All 3 are leaking water out to sea or into the groundwater supply by thousands of tons a day. The 4th building is falling down.

Ladies and gentlemen: The first ever documented case of spontaneous death by "I hate my farking job."

I am all for believing no has died from radiation exposure yet. But their argument might be more convincing if they in any way explained how the man died.

ronin7: I am all for believing no has died from radiation exposure yet. But their argument might be more convincing if they in any way explained how the man died.

Sure, Karoshi, see my link above. Being worked like slaves was more likely the primary cause than radiation, for which he wasn't exposed to enough of to die from radiation poisoning.

Japanese scat is much better than German scat.

Because if they're not dead yet, it doesn't count.

generallyso: Somaticasual: No, no, those aren't deaths from radiation. they're from spontaneous organ failure relating to all their cells somehow becoming mutated, which, per union standards, can't officially be linked to massive radiation poisoning.

Oh, wait, this is japan. They don't need the union excuse.

You've gone completely off the deep end.

Sorry if the callousness was a little overwhelming on that one, but I was going for a japanese baghdad bob parody..

theFirebottle: There were the two guys that bought it in the initial tsunami because they, for unknown reasons, failed to evacuate, and then the most recent guy died of overwork or stress or something.

So many scat jokes today...

Well, at least we can stop worrying about terrorists using dirty nukes. The wait time for death following detonation is surely the best deterrent. Now, if someone could just convince them that bio-weapons don't work either.

It's not much, but just trying to find something positive in the middle of the shiatstorm. Hang in there, Japan.

Gwyrddu: ronin7: I am all for believing no has died from radiation exposure yet. But their argument might be more convincing if they in any way explained how the man died.

Sure, Karoshi, see my link above. Being worked like slaves was more likely the primary cause than radiation, for which he wasn't exposed to enough of to die from radiation poisoning.

If he died 50 minutes after starting, it is unlikely he was worked to death. Most likely given, the age of the victim, it was a heart attack induced by stress and environment factors. However the companies handling of this is horrible. No medical staff, no ambulences or helicopters ready to transfer injured if there is an accident/injury in a dangerous and unstable environment? What are they thinking?

Even if you don't care about the workers, you do care about PR. We are billions in the hole here, so whats another couple million to try to show some competence and safety after the fact. The situation is still unstable, but we are over a month past the initial event so resources are available to help minimize risks to employees. It will never be 100% safe, but you do what you can to prevent problems and prevent harm if something happens. It makes you look a little better in the press and that you may have some competence in resolving this situation.

These are older people in protective suits. They are dying from heart attacks and heat stroke. Radiation doesn't even add in to it.

And I love the people in this thread saying it's the radiation. You guys are aware it takes near a thousand REM to hit fatal dose right? A sievert is roughly a hundred rem. So you'd be looking at like eight to ten sievert for fatal dose, if my conversions are right. And we're still counting dose in millisievert for Japan, so whoopity farking do!

/radiation worker

RandomExcess: Japanese scat is much better than German scat.

Gourmand.

So nuclear plant disaster deaths only count if they are directly due to radiation?

All the money this costs to fix, doesn't count?

All the thousands of people evacuated, doesn't count?

All the industries being destroyed in Japan because of this like fishing and agriculture of this area, doesn't count?

And now deaths if they are not directly due to radiation doesn't count.

Ringshadow: And I love the people in this thread saying it's the radiation. You guys are aware it takes near a thousand REM to hit fatal dose right?

Are you saying any lower doses of radiation will not increase your chances of getting cancer at all in the future?

Ringshadow: These are older people in protective suits. They are dying from heart attacks and heat stroke. Radiation doesn't even add in to it.

And I love the people in this thread saying it's the radiation. You guys are aware it takes near a thousand REM to hit fatal dose right? A sievert is roughly a hundred rem. So you'd be looking at like eight to ten sievert for fatal dose, if my conversions are right. And we're still counting dose in millisievert for Japan, so whoopity farking do!

/radiation worker

I think it's true that it's primarily the older workers and the workers who are not in good shape that are most impacted by the protective garments.... And that in this instance, it is not the radiation.

Seems odd that this is obvious, and yet TEPCO seems to be hiring all these people clearly unfit for the job.

Oh well, I'm sure TEPCO knows what it's doing, so what me worry?

/you'll appreciate the thread that hits FARK in about 35 minutes.

Medical staff know better than to work nearby a nuclear plant meltdown.

RoyBatty: I think it's true that it's primarily the older workers and the workers who are not in good shape that are most impacted by the protective garments.... And that in this instance, it is not the radiation.

Yeah I bet his family will go "Oh it wasn't caused directly by radiation. Only by the suit he had to wear to keep him safe from the radiation. Then really we have no problem with him being dead!"

Ringshadow: And I love the people in this thread saying it's the radiation.

Actually nobody in the thread has claimed that.

However, we do have the "do not worry about the exposed fuel rods, probable melt-down and radioactive water leaking into the sea" apologists.

jaytkay: Ringshadow: And I love the people in this thread saying it's the radiation.

Actually nobody in the thread has claimed that.

However, we do have the "do not worry about the exposed fuel rods, probable melt-down and radioactive water leaking into the sea" apologists.

Do we really? Because it doesn't look like anybody said that either.

Sim Tree: If there a reason he died of 0.17 millisieverts when the maximum dose is 250, or did I miss something?

It doesn't matter how radioactive things are if you slip and hit your head or have a heart attack trying to lift something heavy, etc.

Corvus: Are you saying any lower doses of radiation will not increase your chances of getting cancer at all in the future?

Actually studies have shown that radiation workers have a LOWER instance of cancer, and they've shown that for decades now.

So, no, I wasn't farking saying that.


Protective suit PSA

From the pictures it looks like these people are often in Orecks suits with bubble hoods, or something like it. The problem is, while Orecks is disposable (it dissolves in hot water and boils down), it doesn't breathe for crap. I've worn Orecks and it's only a step above wearing plastic. Orecks with a bubble hood is a quick way to become dehydrated and get heat stroke. Unless they were keeping on top giving these people bottled water and getting them out regularly, heat stroke and heart attacks are nearly to be expected with the older crowd.

There's a reason why you're only supposed to do a few hour jump in such a getup! Hell, even deconners only go four hours, max, and you're supposed to GTFO if you feel the effects of heat stress!

The most common killer at HazMat sites once they're under control (as this one has been from basically the beginning) is not exposure, it's heat stroke. Working in a self-enclosed suit of heavy shielded plastic is going to overheat you even in the middle of winter. Learning to recognize the signs in yourself and step-out, and not go beyond the allocated under-gear durations is very important, and every major event has some dumbass who doesn't get it and has to be carried out.

//Personal experience.


jaytkay: However, we do have the "do not worry about the exposed fuel rods, probable melt-down and radioactive water leaking into the sea" apologists.

Not really any point in you worrying about it. There are plenty of professionals worrying about it and they pretty much have the situation under control. This has actually turned out to be fairly minor as industrial accidents go, the most dangerous part so far has been the loss of power that the plants formerly provided. Speaks pretty well for the safety of nuke plants, honestly.

Ringshadow:

Actually studies have shown that radiation workers have a LOWER instance of cancer, and they've shown that for decades now.


Mostly because they get better treatment and screening and cancer is more likely to get caught early and treated, thus they don't die from it as often as the general population. The radiation is still likely to give a few of them cancer that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Also, properly functioning nuclear plants don't actually expose most workers to very much radiation, less than if they worked at a coal plant. That's obviously not the case for these Japanese plants though.

Maybe they went for a swim in the rejuvenating pool?

Damn. 3 already? That's only 2430 less than coal-energy related deaths in China alone for last year. C'mon nuclear energy death rate, I know you can do better!

Jim_Callahan: they pretty much have the situation under control. This has actually turned out to be fairly minor as industrial accidents go

May 15, 2011 - Japan began evacuating people from outside the official exclusion zone around the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant after it was revealed fuel rods there probably melted hours after March's devastating earthquake. - Link (new window)

/ lol shill lol

Gwyrddu: Mostly because they get better treatment and screening and cancer is more likely to get caught early and treated, thus they don't die from it as often as the general population. The radiation is still likely to give a few of them cancer that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Nay so. It's theorized that being constantly exposed to low levels of radiation is in fact therapeutic because it trains your body on what it needs to destroy with extreme prejudice. And if we do get cancer treatment we're a pain in the ass to the people treating us because you can damn well bet we want to see the paperwork for the machine, in detail.

Also, properly functioning nuclear plants don't actually expose most workers to very much radiation, less than if they worked at a coal plant. That's obviously not the case for these Japanese plants though.

Obviously you've never known any steam generator jumpers, or chemical decon workers..

limboslam: Damn. 3 already? That's only 2430 less than coal-energy related deaths in China alone for last year. C'mon nuclear energy death rate, I know you can do better!

Pretty much THIS.
How many died and how much ocean was damaged when that oil platform went in the gulf, exactly.


jaytkay: / lol shill lol

Understanding an industry doesn't make you a shill, jackwagon.

/nuke worker
//the chemical industry has killed more, hurt more, and scarred more land than we ever will

Ringshadow: Understanding an industry doesn't make you a shill, jackwagon.

No, but blind cheer-leading for one does.

jaytkay: Ringshadow: Understanding an industry doesn't make you a shill, jackwagon.

No, but blind cheer-leading for one does.

I'm quite aware of the level of farkup that's happened here.

I'm just saying that it isn't the end of the goddamn world.

jaytkay: Ringshadow: Understanding an industry doesn't make you a shill, jackwagon.

No, but blind cheer-leading for one does.

And how is being better informed than damn near anyone else here being blind?

If she has more facts than you do, understands those facts better than you do, and can apply the meaning of those facts better than you do, I'd say that makes her pretty well one of the best sighted people in the room, given the situation.

Jackwagon.

Tiberius Sulla: Jackwagon.

lol, jackwagon again. You shouldn't use your alts in such close succession. It's too easy to mix up your characters.

Jim_Callahan: The most common killer at HazMat sites once they're under control (as this one has been from basically the beginning) is not exposure, it's heat stroke. Working in a self-enclosed suit of heavy shielded plastic is going to overheat you even in the middle of winter. Learning to recognize the signs in yourself and step-out, and not go beyond the allocated under-gear durations is very important, and every major event has some dumbass who doesn't get it and has to be carried out.

//Personal experience.


jaytkay: However, we do have the "do not worry about the exposed fuel rods, probable melt-down and radioactive water leaking into the sea" apologists.

Not really any point in you worrying about it. There are plenty of professionals worrying about it and they pretty much have the situation under control. This has actually turned out to be fairly minor as industrial accidents go, the most dangerous part so far has been the loss of power that the plants formerly provided. Speaks pretty well for the safety of nuke plants, honestly.

You have far more faith in Tepco than is warranted. They've reacted far too slowly and too tepidly at every turn of events. Every time a new problem has cropped up, they first deny it until it evolves into a potential new catastrophe, then they scramble to play whack-a-mole.

None of the reactors would've melted down in the first place... except that until be became quite apparent that they were in fact in the process of doing exactly that, Tepco refused to inject seawater to halt the declining water levels and cool the reactors. Because that ruins the reactor... and they were still under the delusion that these were going to walk out of this with all 6 reactors still serviceable, even after the reactor buildings began exploding because of hydrogen released due to the fuel rods being hot enough to melt.

Reactor 1 they're now pretty sure has partly melted through the reactor vessel, and the basement is full of extremely radioactive water. The highly radioactive water in the tunnel of buildings 2 and 3 continues to rise and is expected to overflow into the sea... roughly today.

It is indeed remarkable that after a massive earthquake, followed by Tepco's epic bungling, there hasn't been a full-blown catastrophe. But the fact that this even occurred is also a disaster of major proportions with lessons to be learned:

If you put the plant at sea level in a tsunami zone, you should heed the geological record and those stone tablets saying "Everything below here will be wiped out by tsunami"
If you put the plant at sea level in a tsunami zone, it must be protected against large scale ingress of water.
There must be a nearby supply of freshwater for emergency cooling, and one must be created if no natural source exists.

Any one of these would've ultimately prevented this disaster. And it is now a major disaster: Significant areas of nearby seabed and land have been contaminated, cumulative radiation released is in the megacuries, and not nearly enough progress has been made towards getting this situation under control.

When this first began, almost exactly 2 months ago now, I went through a succession of "Well, surely they'll take action and get it under control now" stages. It's become apparent that Tepco either have no farking clue what to do, or they'd prefer to let the situation degenerate to outright catastrophe before lowering themselves to ask for help.

Gwyrddu: If they don't die in the first few weeks from radiation poisoning, for which I believe none of the employees got a high enough dose for that to happen anyway, then none of them are going to die anytime soon.

There will probably be a handful of cancer related deaths in the future because of this, but it is way too soon for that to show up.

Indeed, judging from the description in the article, that a 60 year old man performing hard labor and being exposed to low-level radiation died after about an hour of work, it sounds like it wasn't the radiation. My guess: heart attack brought on by a combination of stress, old age, and physical labor. I he just keeled over from being exposed to radiation for 1 hour, then all the other workers and presumably most of Asia are basically boned.

Remember: When evaluating the damage caused by a nuclear accident, the only metric you can use is human deaths by radiation.

Because.

He was exposed to 0.17 millisieverts of radiation on Saturday

Dear god, he must have broken out into giant tumors that all spontaneously gave birth to Supermutants from such a high dose. Poor guy.

Do wonder how he died though, TFA sort of hints they're working the poor guys to the bone. The japanese sort of have issues with being worked to death too.