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(Some Guy)   US Visa lottery results scratched, making a lotto people angry   (mega949.com) divider line 58
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7117 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2011 at 7:09 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-13 07:13:16 PM
Just sneak into the country like everyone else does, you won't be punished.
 
2011-05-13 07:14:52 PM
But hey, at least the money goes to funding the schools.

// oh wait, wrong lottery
 
2011-05-13 07:21:39 PM

Walker: Just sneak into the country like everyone else does, you won't be punished.

 
2011-05-13 07:23:03 PM
The Freepers are gonna have a field day with this.
 
2011-05-13 07:23:54 PM
mail-order brides will put out twice in celebration.
 
2011-05-13 07:27:36 PM
Those who were chosen by Shirley Jackson were relieved to have their result annulled.
 
2011-05-13 07:30:22 PM
That's a shockingly low number of visas to me. I assumed we handed out more than ten times that many.

What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?

Now it's "so long as you're valuable enough to us, or you're lucky enough to score a chance to jump through a bureaucratic obstacle course".

Maybe it's foolish of me to think, but I've always seen the American Dream as something everyone who wanted should have a chance at.
 
2011-05-13 07:31:10 PM
Just take a flight to Mexico and walk across. It's the American way.
 
2011-05-13 07:35:11 PM
I wonder if I can have my ex-wife's green card revoked...
 
2011-05-13 07:36:13 PM
Lots of idiocy in this thread.

/Legal permanent resident
//The entire American immigration process is BS
 
2011-05-13 07:38:01 PM

TheAngryGazebo: That's a shockingly low number of visas to me. I assumed we handed out more than ten times that many.

What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?

Now it's "so long as you're valuable enough to us, or you're lucky enough to score a chance to jump through a bureaucratic obstacle course".

Maybe it's foolish of me to think, but I've always seen the American Dream as something everyone who wanted should have a chance at.


This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.
 
2011-05-13 07:40:03 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: //The entire American immigration process is BS


THIS.

Convoluted immigration is a political tool to motivate bigots to hating people who are critical to certain industries.

If you want to dry up illegal immigration, punish the employers. A few jailed CEOs and seized businesses of those who attract and pay undocumented workers would fix the problem in one session of Congress.
 
2011-05-13 07:53:07 PM
Heh. State Department contractor who was responsible for the program probably outsourced it to some sweatshop code farm in Bombay.
 
2011-05-13 07:56:15 PM
fta: The diversity visa lottery was established by Congress in 1994 to increase the number of immigrants coming to the United States from the developing world and countries with traditionally low rates of immigration to the U.S. Citizens of most countries are eligible, however, with those from only 19 countries that have sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years not allowed to participate.

The ineligible countries are Brazil, Britain, Canada, China, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, South Korea and Vietnam.


But this Diversity Visa program is in addition to the regular Visa program, right? Someone, who is knowledgeable about our Visa application processes, please, tell me we have not declared that zero people hailing from Mexico may emigrate to the USA.
 
zz9
2011-05-13 07:57:54 PM
Even if it picked all the winners from the first two days of applicants it's still 'random'. No one knew those days would be picked. How is it any less random than any other selection?
 
2011-05-13 08:00:03 PM

Lunaville: fta: The diversity visa lottery was established by Congress in 1994 to increase the number of immigrants coming to the United States from the developing world and countries with traditionally low rates of immigration to the U.S. Citizens of most countries are eligible, however, with those from only 19 countries that have sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years not allowed to participate.

The ineligible countries are Brazil, Britain, Canada, China, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, South Korea and Vietnam.


But this Diversity Visa program is in addition to the regular Visa program, right? Someone, who is knowledgeable about our Visa application processes, please, tell me we have not declared that zero people hailing from Mexico may emigrate to the USA.


There are a lot who come through employment based and family based programs. This is why these particular countries cannot come through the DV lottery.
 
2011-05-13 08:01:57 PM

meanmutton: TheAngryGazebo: That's a shockingly low number of visas to me. I assumed we handed out more than ten times that many.

What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?

Now it's "so long as you're valuable enough to us, or you're lucky enough to score a chance to jump through a bureaucratic obstacle course".

Maybe it's foolish of me to think, but I've always seen the American Dream as something everyone who wanted should have a chance at.

This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.


It's not like we just let a million people who just showed up come in. The wait for some countries is YEARS. If you look at brothers and sisters from the Philippines, I think it's regressed at least 20 years.
 
2011-05-13 08:10:16 PM
I want a Venn diagram of the people in favor of this lottery system and its implementation on the one hand, and those pushing for electronic voting (especially using Diebold equipment and software) on the other.
 
2011-05-13 08:14:07 PM
Why do we react to illegal immigration by making legal immigration difficult? If legal immigration was easier more people would line up for it. People break the law when they think the law is a hopeless joke.
 
2011-05-13 08:25:24 PM

Lunaville: fta: The diversity visa lottery was established by Congress in 1994 to increase the number of immigrants coming to the United States from the developing world and countries with traditionally low rates of immigration to the U.S. Citizens of most countries are eligible, however, with those from only 19 countries that have sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years not allowed to participate.

The ineligible countries are Brazil, Britain, Canada, China, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, the Philippines, Poland, South Korea and Vietnam.


But this Diversity Visa program is in addition to the regular Visa program, right? Someone, who is knowledgeable about our Visa application processes, please, tell me we have not declared that zero people hailing from Mexico may emigrate to the USA.


The Diversity Visa program is supplemental to the other normal processes. It's an accelerated method for people from countries that have under a certain number of applicants each year.
 
2011-05-13 08:38:20 PM

Nem Wan: Why do we react to illegal immigration by making legal immigration difficult? If legal immigration was easier more people would line up for it. People break the law when they think the law is a hopeless joke.


We make legal immigration difficult because there were 15 million people who signed up for 90,000 slots in the lottery for diversity visas.
 
2011-05-13 08:42:56 PM

zz9: Even if it picked all the winners from the first two days of applicants it's still 'random'. No one knew those days would be picked. How is it any less random than any other selection?


This was arbitrary, not random. If it was random, everyone would have an equal chance at "winning". Instead, there was a weight based on when the application was put in, which is clearly illegal.
 
2011-05-13 08:42:59 PM
que.guero:
I wonder if I can have my ex-wife's green card revoked...

It is possible assuming that the reason she got her green card is by marrying you, the marriage was less than two years old and you weren't beating the crap out of her etc. If that was the case she shouldn't have qualified to have the two year restriction removed from the green card and will get deported.

It would take a while however. It took me a year to prove to immigration that I was in fact a male and not female. Missed my grandparent's funerals because of it since I couldn't leave the country and get back in to go to work afterwards. I was also committing a misdemeanor due to not having a visa or green card carried on me at all times in public while they sorted out that junk, which makes it really hard to proof to companies that don't hire illegals to do cheap labour, that I was here legal and cost me a great job opportunity.
 
2011-05-13 08:43:57 PM

Nem Wan: Why do we react to illegal immigration by making legal immigration difficult? If legal immigration was easier more people would line up for it. People break the law when they think the law is a hopeless joke.


15 million applied, how many more would you like? So to make it easier, we should just let people in without knowing their backgrounds? That surely couldn't ever backfire, right? Maybe we should expand the immigration department making it as large as the IRS so we can streamline the process. We can always plant more money trees to pay for it.
 
2011-05-13 08:52:22 PM

Lunaville:
But this Diversity Visa program is in addition to the regular Visa program, right? Someone, who is knowledgeable about our Visa application processes, please, tell me we have not declared that zero people hailing from Mexico may emigrate to the USA.


Zero people from Mexico? Not even family members or spouses of US citizens?
 
2011-05-13 09:07:02 PM

limeyfellow: que.guero:
I wonder if I can have my ex-wife's green card revoked...

It is possible assuming that the reason she got her green card is by marrying you, the marriage was less than two years old and you weren't beating the crap out of her etc. If that was the case she shouldn't have qualified to have the two year restriction removed from the green card and will get deported.


Actually, the only thing that would be a factor is whether or not it was a bona fide marriage.
 
2011-05-13 09:14:27 PM

meanmutton: This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.


Not even close. We had 1.2 million people immigrate in 1907, and if you talk about per capita immigration, it was over three times higher back then because the population was less than a third what it is now.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

That's a logical fallacy, because more people ALSO means more demand for labor; those people will build homes and buy products too. There's not a fixed number of jobs available -- immigration increases both the supply *and* the demand for labor, so while it increases the number of candidates, it also increases the number of jobs available.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.

We actually have a very low population density overall; we're in the bottom 25% by population density.
 
2011-05-13 09:21:31 PM
Yay I get a second chance to hope for the best and then be severely disappointed and cry and wonder how the hell I'm going to stay in the US after graduation.

This is almost cruel haha.
 
2011-05-13 09:23:51 PM

Lenryer: Yay I get a second chance to hope for the best and then be severely disappointed and cry and wonder how the hell I'm going to stay in the US after graduation.

This is almost cruel haha.


You're not alone; a good friend of mine has been trying year after year after year. I guess he'll get to be disappointed twice this year :/
 
2011-05-13 09:42:16 PM

Lenryer: Yay I get a second chance to hope for the best and then be severely disappointed and cry and wonder how the hell I'm going to stay in the US after graduation.

This is almost cruel haha.


You know this is on purpose, right? We don't want foreign students staying here. We want them to go back to their country and help it become more Western, educated, etc.

Nothing personal, I would hope somebody explained this to you before you came here in the first place.
 
zz9
2011-05-13 09:42:42 PM

meanmutton: zz9: Even if it picked all the winners from the first two days of applicants it's still 'random'. No one knew those days would be picked. How is it any less random than any other selection?

This was arbitrary, not random. If it was random, everyone would have an equal chance at "winning". Instead, there was a weight based on when the application was put in, which is clearly illegal.


Everyone did have an equal chance. No one knew what day would be picked and we assume that any single day picked would have a typical range of applicants.
If registration was opened in different countries on different days then picking one day would favor one country and not be random.
But I see no suggestion that that was the case. Any lottery is "arbitrary", if you're picked you win, if you're not you don't. How was this any different? How did it favor or disadvantage any group?
Everyone did have the same chance. If the day picked was the day you entered then you'd win.
 
2011-05-13 09:47:19 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: You know this is on purpose, right? We don't want foreign students staying here. We want them to go back to their country and help it become more Western, educated, etc.


"We" do?

I taught many foreign graduate students and I wish each and every one of them could remain here and make America better.
 
2011-05-13 09:52:21 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lots of idiocy in this thread.

/Legal permanent resident
//The entire American immigration process is BS


THIS.

My mother is a citizen, my brother is a citizen, my nephew is a citizen. They all live in the US.

I'm in farking Venezuela... I'm unmarried, speak three languages, have a Masters in Computer Science (my specialization is IT Security) but... a visa will become available in 10 FARKING YEARS.

I submitted a Canadian Permanent Resident application (Canadians have a system in place so people with advanced degrees, high english skills and are young can legally immigrate without a job offer) and they answered in 3 months: "Here's your visa".

So, I'm moving to Vancouver (my family lives in Seattle), so I can stay close by.
 
2011-05-13 09:54:09 PM

Gish21: Lunaville:
But this Diversity Visa program is in addition to the regular Visa program, right? Someone, who is knowledgeable about our Visa application processes, please, tell me we have not declared that zero people hailing from Mexico may emigrate to the USA.

Zero people from Mexico? Not even family members or spouses of US citizens?


The visa lottery is only available to select countries who haven't sent a set max amount of people legally. Hence the word "diversity" in it.

Mexico, China, Canada I think, Brazil, India and such nationals cannot participate in the diversity lottery
 
2011-05-13 09:55:06 PM

maq0r: A Dark Evil Omen: Lots of idiocy in this thread.

/Legal permanent resident
//The entire American immigration process is BS

THIS.

My mother is a citizen, my brother is a citizen, my nephew is a citizen. They all live in the US.

I'm in farking Venezuela... I'm unmarried, speak three languages, have a Masters in Computer Science (my specialization is IT Security) but... a visa will become available in 10 FARKING YEARS.

I submitted a Canadian Permanent Resident application (Canadians have a system in place so people with advanced degrees, high english skills and are young can legally immigrate without a job offer) and they answered in 3 months: "Here's your visa".

So, I'm moving to Vancouver (my family lives in Seattle), so I can stay close by.


Vancouver is cool. Trust me, you'd rather have citizenship there.
Hell, I'd rather live there.

/Seattle
 
2011-05-13 09:55:35 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: You know this is on purpose, right? We don't want foreign students staying here. We want them to go back to their country and help it become more Western, educated, etc.

Nothing personal, I would hope somebody explained this to you before you came here in the first place.


Yeah, that's dumb. A lot of the world's best and brightest come here to study, often on government and/or university scholarships. I'd much rather have them stick around in this country and make HERE a better place after we just spent years educating them on the taxpayer's dime.

Also, third/fourthing the 'immigration is a clusterfark' sentiment. My wife ended up having to take a month and a half of unpaid leave from work because USCIS fiddly-farked around so long with her green card application (we're talking YEARS here) that her work visa had expired before her green card was processed, so it would have been illegal for her to continue at her job. Thank god her bosses were understanding and didn't just can her.
 
2011-05-13 09:56:42 PM

AbbeySomeone: maq0r: A Dark Evil Omen: Lots of idiocy in this thread.

/Legal permanent resident
//The entire American immigration process is BS

THIS.

My mother is a citizen, my brother is a citizen, my nephew is a citizen. They all live in the US.

I'm in farking Venezuela... I'm unmarried, speak three languages, have a Masters in Computer Science (my specialization is IT Security) but... a visa will become available in 10 FARKING YEARS.

I submitted a Canadian Permanent Resident application (Canadians have a system in place so people with advanced degrees, high english skills and are young can legally immigrate without a job offer) and they answered in 3 months: "Here's your visa".

So, I'm moving to Vancouver (my family lives in Seattle), so I can stay close by.

Vancouver is cool. Trust me, you'd rather have citizenship there.
Hell, I'd rather live there.

/Seattle


I've actually never been there, I'm always in Seattle, I just spent a month in there in March (Renton actually).
 
2011-05-13 09:57:38 PM

maq0r: A Dark Evil Omen: Lots of idiocy in this thread.

/Legal permanent resident
//The entire American immigration process is BS

THIS.

My mother is a citizen, my brother is a citizen, my nephew is a citizen. They all live in the US.

I'm in farking Venezuela... I'm unmarried, speak three languages, have a Masters in Computer Science (my specialization is IT Security) but... a visa will become available in 10 FARKING YEARS.

I submitted a Canadian Permanent Resident application (Canadians have a system in place so people with advanced degrees, high english skills and are young can legally immigrate without a job offer) and they answered in 3 months: "Here's your visa".

So, I'm moving to Vancouver (my family lives in Seattle), so I can stay close by.


Trust me when I say you lucked out getting to live in Vancouver while getting to dodge Seattle and Portland.
 
2011-05-13 10:17:06 PM
A lot of the HERP TAKIN OUR JERBS types wouldn't recognize the immigration code and bureaucratic hoops if they bit them in the face.
 
2011-05-13 10:28:23 PM

EmmaLou: meanmutton: TheAngryGazebo: That's a shockingly low number of visas to me. I assumed we handed out more than ten times that many.

What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?

Now it's "so long as you're valuable enough to us, or you're lucky enough to score a chance to jump through a bureaucratic obstacle course".

Maybe it's foolish of me to think, but I've always seen the American Dream as something everyone who wanted should have a chance at.

This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.

It's not like we just let a million people who just showed up come in. The wait for some countries is YEARS. If you look at brothers and sisters from the Philippines, I think it's regressed at least 20 years.


How they get into the line or how long they wait there isn't really relevant to the discussion of how many new immigrants can be assimilated each year.
 
2011-05-13 10:35:01 PM

maq0r:
THIS.

My mother is a citizen, my brother is a citizen, my nephew is a citizen. They all live in the US.

I'm in farking Venezuela... I'm unmarried, speak three languages, have a Masters in Computer Science (my specialization is IT Security) but... a visa will become available in 10 FARKING YEARS.

I submitted a Canadian Permanent Resident application (Canadians have a system in place so people with advanced degrees, high english skills and are young can legally immigrate without a job offer) and they answered in 3 months: "Here's your visa".

So, I'm moving to Vancouver (my family lives in Seattle), so I can stay close by.


America doesn't want people like you. We want millions of undocumented manual laborers so that they can be payed less than minimum wage and be exploited, so we do not have to hire Americans. We want educated immigrants to stay home so we can offshore the higher level jobs and pay you 1/4 the US wage.

It's a brilliant long term strategy.
 
2011-05-13 10:38:29 PM

schief2: The Jami Turman Fan Club: You know this is on purpose, right? We don't want foreign students staying here. We want them to go back to their country and help it become more Western, educated, etc.

Nothing personal, I would hope somebody explained this to you before you came here in the first place.

Yeah, that's dumb. A lot of the world's best and brightest come here to study, often on government and/or university scholarships. I'd much rather have them stick around in this country and make HERE a better place after we just spent years educating them on the taxpayer's dime.

Also, third/fourthing the 'immigration is a clusterfark' sentiment. My wife ended up having to take a month and a half of unpaid leave from work because USCIS fiddly-farked around so long with her green card application (we're talking YEARS here) that her work visa had expired before her green card was processed, so it would have been illegal for her to continue at her job. Thank god her bosses were understanding and didn't just can her.


THAT sounds like BS. While a green card application is pending, you can get work authorization...and continue to get work authorization until the application is adjudicated.
 
2011-05-13 10:41:30 PM

Sum Dum Gai: meanmutton: This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.

Not even close. We had 1.2 million people immigrate in 1907, and if you talk about per capita immigration, it was over three times higher back then because the population was less than a third what it is now.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

That's a logical fallacy, because more people ALSO means more demand for labor; those people will build homes and buy products too. There's not a fixed number of jobs available -- immigration increases both the supply *and* the demand for labor, so while it increases the number of candidates, it also increases the number of jobs available.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.

We actually have a very low population density overall; we're in the bottom 25% by population density.


Here's a 2005 article (new window) which says from 2000 to 2005, a 6 year period, there were 7.9 million immigrants to the US. That's 1.3 million a year, which I think is pretty close to 1.2 million. In 2009, there were 1.1 million legal immigrants, also pretty close to the 1.2 million number.

If we simply opened up the borders and allowed everyone to come in, there would certainly be at least 15 million people (those in the lottery) coming in nearly immediately. Yes, certainly, eventually the economy would expand to provide jobs for them but certainly not right away. If you wanted to allow 15 million new immigrants all in one year and it was, say, 2006 that might work.

My comment about not having room for them wasn't meant to mean physical room. There's plenty of physical room in the US to hold the entire world's population and still have each family have its own house and yard. When I said "room", I meant that there's really a limit to the number of immigrants the US can assimilate each year.
 
2011-05-13 10:46:38 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Lenryer: Yay I get a second chance to hope for the best and then be severely disappointed and cry and wonder how the hell I'm going to stay in the US after graduation.

This is almost cruel haha.

You know this is on purpose, right? We don't want foreign students staying here. We want them to go back to their country and help it become more Western, educated, etc.

Nothing personal, I would hope somebody explained this to you before you came here in the first place.


You think I was allowed in here to learn your ways and spread the word in my country so that we could become more 'Westernized' and 'educated'?
I'm from Argentina, farkwit, and I was allowed into the country because I applied to study at a university and got a full tuition scholarship. Argentina is about as Western as it farking gets, what the hell.

And I will take it personally, what with your 'we don't want you here! go tell your little uncultured friends about tap water!' idiocy.

I MAD.
 
2011-05-13 10:57:34 PM

meanmutton: Here's a 2005 article (new window) which says from 2000 to 2005, a 6 year period, there were 7.9 million immigrants to the US. That's 1.3 million a year, which I think is pretty close to 1.2 million. In 2009, there were 1.1 million legal immigrants, also pretty close to the 1.2 million number.


True, but you have to also consider that in 1901, 1.2 million people was over 1% of the US population. Now, 1.3 million is considerably less.

If we simply opened up the borders and allowed everyone to come in, there would certainly be at least 15 million people (those in the lottery) coming in nearly immediately. Yes, certainly, eventually the economy would expand to provide jobs for them but certainly not right away. If you wanted to allow 15 million new immigrants all in one year and it was, say, 2006 that might work.

Actually, I think you'd get the biggest boost right up front. Someone coming to the nation is going to find it more cost-effective to sell most of their possessions in their nation and re-buy them in the United States, and of course if they are buying or renting housing, they need it starting on day 1. During their first few years, their consumption is going to exceed their production; they will demand goods at a faster rate than their labor can increase the supply of goods. So overall that means they create more work than they can perform, giving a net reduction in the unemployment rate.

I'm not saying we need to go back to the pre-1920s free-for-all that immigration used to be; I just think we've come much too far in the other direction. None of my ancestors could ever have come here had the laws been then like they are now.
 
2011-05-13 11:46:27 PM
I know a girl who immigrated to the US when her family got one of these visas, it was first I ever heard of anyone winning them. She's from Poland (but half Japanese). Instant green cards. That's just... crazy luck and the envy of anyone who is looking to live in the US for any length of time by ordinary means.

I know far more regular garden variety foreign people (Japanese, mostly) on regular temporary visas (student and work) though. Some of them would like to work here further because there's gigs with good $$$ but alas, most of the stuff hiring in their field all wants US citizenship since it's DoD contracts.

Lenryer: You think I was allowed in here to learn your ways and spread the word in my country so that we could become more 'Westernized' and 'educated'?
I'm from Argentina, farkwit, and I was allowed into the country because I applied to study at a university and got a full tuition scholarship. Argentina is about as Western as it farking gets, what the hell.


There's something to the idea that "student exchange means people know our country from the inside and have personal friends so won't just hate it later" but it's not like the US is the only country that thinks that way. Granted, most of the people who talk about the policy (in any country) are patronizing as hell though.
 
2011-05-14 01:29:05 AM

TheAngryGazebo: What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?


Country's full. We can't employ the labor we have here now. Go home. I am sick of competing with every Sanjay, Chan, and Eduardo in the world. Especially when these guys get degrees from their home countries with full funding, and can therefore undercut the salaries of people who had to borrow money to go to school here.

Nobody ... and I repeat ... NOBODY is entitled to live here except citizens and those who we invite. Frankly, my family has earned its place here, by conquest, labor, invention and military service. We've been here over 400 years, and by some accounts much much longer.

I understand people want to come here to enjoy our vigorous economy, our participatory democracy, our vigorous economy, Our top of the line Collegiate and university system, our vigorous economy, and enjoy the social mobility that other nations don't permit. But deciding that the way to get here is to break our laws - even if you think they're asinine and unjust - is not the way to go. Your DESIRE to be here does not supersede our laws.

Have a lovely night, and enjoy posting your replies from all over the world.
/The country that gave the world the Internet.
 
2011-05-14 02:47:17 AM

rubi_con_man: TheAngryGazebo: What happened to "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free"?

Country's full. We can't employ the labor we have here now.


You seem to have forgotten that people are not just workers, but consumers as well. Right now, Mexicans send a lot of money back to their families in Mexico. If you let their family move to the US, that money stays right here. And immigrants almost always work harder than fat lazy Americans. We need more immigrants to move here to help us carry all of our deadweight.
 
2011-05-14 03:00:51 AM
"Entered Without Inspection." Nice little government term for the status of illegals.
 
2011-05-14 03:19:50 AM

Sum Dum Gai: meanmutton: This is only for diversity immigrant visas. It doesn't include the normal immigration visa. In total, around 1 million immigrants are allowed into the US each year. That's really higher than it's been at pretty much any time in history.

Not even close. We had 1.2 million people immigrate in 1907, and if you talk about per capita immigration, it was over three times higher back then because the population was less than a third what it is now.

Right now, we have around 14 million unemployed in the US and another 10-20 million under employed. If we just let everyone in who wanted, we're looking at another 10-20 million unemployed. We just can't accommodate that many people.

That's a logical fallacy, because more people ALSO means more demand for labor; those people will build homes and buy products too. There's not a fixed number of jobs available -- immigration increases both the supply *and* the demand for labor, so while it increases the number of candidates, it also increases the number of jobs available.

I wish we could. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the room.

We actually have a very low population density overall; we're in the bottom 25% by population density.


More demand for labor? Forgive me, but what exactly do you *do*?

I don't like to say this, but you sound like a college kid, or a trustafarian who has never worked blue collar or service for more than entertainment money. We have a very very bad unemployment situation right now. We have a very very bad age discrimination situation right now. Citizens are not being hired. Large corporations are sitting on cash until they get the legislation they want (political extortion). Small companies are going under because lending still isn't there (honest hardship).

If you can't pay your employees, how are you going to hire employees?

We don't have the culture to do like the overpopulated Chinese and have EVERYBODY (not just the intern culture) work for free on the offhand chance someone will hire you. The whole slavery thing kind of killed that.

As for population density, there's shiatloads of land you can buy in my own state which no one lives on, not even the hardest of hardcore off-the-grid freaks. They don't live on it for a reason. It's not currently able to be improved. No water. Inaccessible. The tech isn't there right now. Perhaps in the future.

I believe meanmutton is not committing a 'logical fallacy' ... meanmutton is living in the Real World. We need to take care of our own first, before dealing with everyone else's. And of those immigrants who do come over, I think our country is old enough to ask for the creme.
 
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