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(Politico)   Donald Rumsfeld says Pakistani officals may not have known about Osama's location, and he is the leading expert on not knowing things   (politico.com) divider line 54
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641 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 May 2011 at 2:08 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-08 12:55:48 PM  
Why didn't he simply listen to his CIA operatives? (like the one who tipped off Christiane Amanpour back in 1998 that Bin Laden was likely living in a house in Pakistan)
 
2011-05-08 01:01:37 PM  
oops... 2008
 
2011-05-08 01:13:18 PM  
Rumsfeld knows what he knows, knows that he doesn't know some things, and doesn't know that he doesn't know some things.

I wonder if he doesn't know that he does know some things?
 
2011-05-08 01:58:35 PM  
For an Administration that continually claimed that history will be the judge of it, they sure keep popping up to "clarify" things.
 
2011-05-08 02:10:24 PM  
Kinda like me asking Carrot Top to do my tax returns.
 
2011-05-08 02:10:36 PM  
Remember when Rumsfeld said the majority of the war on terror is propaganda? One of the few things this POS of man wasn't lying about.
 
2011-05-08 02:10:58 PM  
The tight relationship between NeoCons like Rumsfeld and Pakistan make me wonder what kind of deals were made while Rumsfeld was Sec of Defense.
 
2011-05-08 02:11:14 PM  
Is it just me or does Don sound more and more like his entire career bought and paid for by middle eastern countries?
 
2011-05-08 02:11:19 PM  

ObamaTheOmnipotent: Kinda like me asking Carrot Top to do my tax returns.


Did you give him props for trying?
 
2011-05-08 02:13:45 PM  
Pakistan civilian gov't: possibly not. Pakistan military: probably did. Pakistan intelligence: 99.99% did
 
2011-05-08 02:15:18 PM  
Backpedal, backpedal backpedal.

Revise, revise, revise.

Keep up the backtrack attack neo-cons.
 
2011-05-08 02:15:45 PM  
Im reading his book. I am not aligned with him philosophocally but its an interesting read. Hes anything but a dummy.
 
2011-05-08 02:17:24 PM  
"Hes anything but a dummy."

However, being amoral can make one blind.
 
2011-05-08 02:22:28 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Why didn't he simply listen to his CIA operatives? (like the one who tipped off Christiane Amanpour back in 1998 that Bin Laden was likely living in a house in Pakistan)


Because there was no farking way to tie this to Saddam Hussein.
 
2011-05-08 02:23:15 PM  
The Pakistani government probably though they were in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

I'm really concerned, and so is Don, that we violated their sovereignty. Rumsfeld loves him some sovereignty.
 
2011-05-08 02:24:48 PM  
At some level of the Pakistani government (or military), someone had cause to suspect that a high ranking terrorist leader/bad guy was in that compound. either the Pakistani goverment is completely incompetent or totally corrupt - that's the only two possible explanations for their non action(s).

i'm leaning towards incompetent at this point. the folks in power could easily have been out of the loop. But the local military and police officials...THOSE guys knew what was up. that's where i'd start with my investigation.
 
2011-05-08 02:25:42 PM  

Gangway Fathead: Hes anything but a dummy.


I'd have more respect for him if he were a dummy rather than utterly duplicitous. Who cares if someone is intelligent if they only use the skill to obfuscate and manipulate?
 
2011-05-08 02:26:12 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Why didn't he simply listen to his CIA operatives? (like the one who tipped off Christiane Amanpour back in 1998 that Bin Laden was likely living in a house in Pakistan)


Once they caught Khalid Sheik Mohammed living in a Pakistani suburb, I knew Bin Laden had to be in a city in Pakistan.

One thing that always bothered me was, for a guy who had been living in a caves for years, Bin Laden's skin was beautiful in his video. No sores, no patchiness, no paleness, nothing but clean, even, perfect skin. (I know there's such a thing as stage makeup but in caves?) It was obvious to me this guy was living the comfortable life in Pakistan while his dupes were getting slaughtered in Afghanistan in the name of his Holiness Osama Bin Laden.
 
2011-05-08 02:28:10 PM  
I actually think he might be right. I'm sure everyone in that town knew somebody of pretty high level importance lived there, but maybe not who. Given how corrupt and dangerous Pakistan is, I sincerely doubt anybody was chomping at the bit to figure out who their neighbor was.
 
2011-05-08 02:29:03 PM  

Weaver95: At some level of the Pakistani government (or military), someone had cause to suspect that a high ranking terrorist leader/bad guy was in that compound. either the Pakistani goverment is completely incompetent or totally corrupt - that's the only two possible explanations for their non action(s).

i'm leaning towards incompetent at this point. the folks in power could easily have been out of the loop. But the local military and police officials...THOSE guys knew what was up. that's where i'd start with my investigation.


The Pakistanis, with the permission of the Bush administration, flew people out of Tora Bora at the height of the US offensive. I don't think evacuating Osama Bin Laden is incompetent. The Pakistanis either flew him out or they let him cross over. Either way, it's not incompetency.
 
2011-05-08 02:29:57 PM  

Ed Finnerty: ObamaTheOmnipotent: Kinda like me asking Carrot Top to do my tax returns.

Did you give him props for trying?


I'd imagine he brought his own.
 
2011-05-08 02:30:21 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Weaver95: At some level of the Pakistani government (or military), someone had cause to suspect that a high ranking terrorist leader/bad guy was in that compound. either the Pakistani goverment is completely incompetent or totally corrupt - that's the only two possible explanations for their non action(s).

i'm leaning towards incompetent at this point. the folks in power could easily have been out of the loop. But the local military and police officials...THOSE guys knew what was up. that's where i'd start with my investigation.

The Pakistanis, with the permission of the Bush administration, flew people out of Tora Bora at the height of the US offensive. I don't think evacuating Osama Bin Laden is incompetent. The Pakistanis either flew him out or they let him cross over. Either way, it's not incompetency.


Yeah, you don't evade capture for over a decade without some friends in very powerful positions. This guy had more than the local gendarmes on his side.
 
2011-05-08 02:38:57 PM  
I'm thinking that, given the reports of how housebound OBL was, that he was either under a type of house arrest, or was in semi-retirement with the blessings of the Pakistani government (or some factions therein).

Either way, he was clearly being sheltered from the US, or so they thought.

As for the US? I think that OBL's location was well known for years (as per the Bill Maher clip), and that he was dispatched when it served a politically expedient purpose, or when the bridge had been burned with the Pakistanis for some other reason.

In other words, I think that Bush, Obama and the Pakistan government were all keeping OBL on ice. Obama thawed it out, and the other two parties are _pissed_.
 
2011-05-08 02:40:15 PM  
Rumsfeld? Isn't he the guy famous for knowing what he knows what he knows what he knows? And p*ssing up the wall with the dick you got, or something?
 
2011-05-08 02:44:46 PM  

culebra: Gangway Fathead: Hes anything but a dummy.

I'd have more respect for him if he were a dummy rather than utterly duplicitous. Who cares if someone is intelligent if they only use the skill to obfuscate and manipulate?


I dont necessarily respect the man. But hes been a major influence on us policy for four decades so I figured Id see what he has to say for himself.
 
2011-05-08 02:49:52 PM  

jonnyh: I'm thinking that, given the reports of how housebound OBL was, that he was either under a type of house arrest, or was in semi-retirement with the blessings of the Pakistani government (or some factions therein).

Either way, he was clearly being sheltered from the US, or so they thought.

As for the US? I think that OBL's location was well known for years (as per the Bill Maher clip), and that he was dispatched when it served a politically expedient purpose, or when the bridge had been burned with the Pakistanis for some other reason.

In other words, I think that Bush, Obama and the Pakistan government were all keeping OBL on ice. Obama thawed it out, and the other two parties are _pissed_.


Yeah, that makes sense. Bush would totally not have any reason to catch bin Laden when his poll numbers were in the toilet and the Republicans were about to see a bloodbath in the 2008 elections.

/adjust your tin foil.
 
2011-05-08 03:07:06 PM  
Is this a known unknown or an unknown known?
 
2011-05-08 03:09:33 PM  

Ed Finnerty: ObamaTheOmnipotent: Kinda like me asking Carrot Top to do my tax returns.

Did you give him props for trying?


Nice...he had his own. He took out a rubber chicken and some Dr. Seuss books and muttered something about not being respected..
 
2011-05-08 03:13:03 PM  
i think they knew about it but swept it under the rug - unofficially avoiding following leads on him as some sort of appeasement for the waziristan folks, if the Pakistani military went out and killed OBL there'd be some serious violence towards whatever regime was in power
 
2011-05-08 03:13:36 PM  
A good number of people knew. It's kind of why we did it without clearing anything initially.

Of course, to maintain diplomacy, we'll play it off a bit cool, because things will go to hell if we call out the Pakistanis for their bullshiat.
 
2011-05-08 03:16:30 PM  

Ed Finnerty: For an Administration that continually claimed that history will be the judge of it, they sure keep popping up to "clarify" things.


"That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality-judiciously, as you will-we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
 
2011-05-08 03:20:07 PM  
Did they know they did not know, did they not know they did not know, or did they not know they knew? This is important.
 
2011-05-08 03:57:37 PM  
So now Rumsfeld is sympathizing with known terrorists?


Lock that farker up.
 
2011-05-08 04:17:52 PM  
Prior to the invasion of Iraq, Donald Rumsfeld famously elaborated on the difference between "known" and "unknown." He said there are "known knowns," or things we know that we know. i.e. We know that we know Saddam Hussein is the dictator of Iraq. There are "known unknowns," things we know we don't know. i.e. we know we don't know how many weapons of mass destruction Saddam had (none, if you'll remember). There are also "unknown unknowns." Things that are so foreign and unimaginable, we don't even know we don't know them.

Rumsfeld stopped there, quite ironically, because he left out the most important one. The "unknown knowns." Things we know, things that make up our personality, but we don't know that we know them. Another name for the unknown knowns are unconscious fantasies, unconscious prejudices, etc.

Remember that Iraqi minister of information who said all that lulzy stuff, denying the obvious? Well, he did say one thing that was true. When asked if the Americans already controlled part of the Baghdad airport, he said, "Not true, Americans don't control even themselves." Why? because they don't know what they know.
 
2011-05-08 04:23:08 PM  
What's an "offical?"
 
2011-05-08 04:31:57 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Weaver95: At some level of the Pakistani government (or military), someone had cause to suspect that a high ranking terrorist leader/bad guy was in that compound. either the Pakistani goverment is completely incompetent or totally corrupt - that's the only two possible explanations for their non action(s).

i'm leaning towards incompetent at this point. the folks in power could easily have been out of the loop. But the local military and police officials...THOSE guys knew what was up. that's where i'd start with my investigation.

The Pakistanis, with the permission of the Bush administration, flew people out of Tora Bora at the height of the US offensive. I don't think evacuating Osama Bin Laden is incompetent. The Pakistanis either flew him out or they let him cross over. Either way, it's not incompetency.


That would have been the previous Pakistani leadership though. Musharaf was kicked out of office almost three years ago, and if he knew anything about this, he probably didn't tell his successors.
I think it's conceivable that the current government was unaware.
 
2011-05-08 04:36:39 PM  
Oh yes, that's it, defend your pals. Show your cards. I would LOVE to see some former officials brought up on Treason charges.

I know it'll never happen, but the more they open their mouths, the more clear the truth becomes.
 
2011-05-08 04:39:54 PM  
The US has known where OBL was for years, it was just politically convenient to take him out know.
 
2011-05-08 04:40:58 PM  
Donald Rumsfeld is quite possibly the worst enemy the American peace movement ever had. Rumsfeld ended the draft during his time as Secretary of Defense in the Ford administration. We'll never mobilize enough opposition to the war unless the average dipshiat is under threat to be shipped away to fight.
 
2011-05-08 04:42:43 PM  

Harry_Seldon: The US has known where OBL was for years, it was just politically convenient to take him out know.


What science leads you to this conclusion?
 
2011-05-08 04:43:56 PM  
www.gwu.edu

A Rumsfeld thread just isn't complete without this picture.
 
2011-05-08 04:46:08 PM  

Harry_Seldon: The US has known where OBL was for years, it was just politically convenient to take him out know.


And it just goes to show how incompetent the Obama administration is. If they had any brains they would have waited until next October.

Amidoinitrite?
 
2011-05-08 04:57:02 PM  
www.ilovebacon.com
 
2011-05-08 05:06:38 PM  

Kuroshin: Oh yes, that's it, defend your pals.


Rumsfeld may have been pals with Musharaf and his military dictatorship, but I doubt he's best buds with the current Pakistani President.
 
2011-05-08 05:30:25 PM  

whither_apophis: Pakistan civilian gov't: possibly not. Pakistan military: probably did. Pakistan intelligence: 99.99% did


And, anybody who's studied the CIA knows that the ISI is just a branch office of the CIA.
 
2011-05-08 05:33:46 PM  
my favorite thing about the Bush Administration, is how even after two years, they can still whip liberals into a frenzy. Between this, and the disgusting comments in the Chomsky thread below, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
2011-05-08 06:22:51 PM  

General Treister: my favorite thing about the Bush Administration, is how even after two years, they can still whip liberals into a frenzy. Between this, and the disgusting comments in the Chomsky thread below, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.


So you approve of the Iraq War of Choice?

If that fustercluck doesn't set your teeth to grind you might be dead inside.
 
2011-05-08 06:23:02 PM  

ScubaDude1960: whither_apophis: Pakistan civilian gov't: possibly not. Pakistan military: probably did. Pakistan intelligence: 99.99% did

And, anybody who's studied the CIA knows that the ISI is just a branch office of the CIA.


They're not very good then, are they?
 
2011-05-08 06:30:41 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: Harry_Seldon: The US has known where OBL was for years, it was just politically convenient to take him out know.

What science leads you to this conclusion?


It's obvious to anyone that is paying attention that Obama had OBL's corpse on ice for years and is only using it now as a distraction from the discussion about his place of birth. Anyways, it was Bush who lead the way in getting intelligence on where Osama was - by using tactics that Obama ended. Obama didn't even go after OBL, the military forced his hand in a coup. Plus do you even believe that OBL is dead? I mean they won't release the pictures and they dumped his corpse that same day at sea? Yeah right. Obviously Obama owes Bush a big thank-you for finding/unthawing/lying about killing OBL. None of this could have taken place without waterboarding.

USA! USA! USA!
 
2011-05-08 07:00:12 PM  
Sit down and STFU Rummy. You bastards had your chance and you farked it up royally.
 
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