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(Daily Mail)   Best. Prison. Ever   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 281
    More: Spiffy, custodial sentence, holiday homes, special case, debt settlement, Nordic countries, overpopulations, Norway, Scandinavian  
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37104 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2011 at 10:24 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-08 05:57:47 AM
Damn. That's interesting. I wonder if it would ever work in the States, though of course, we'd never get the opportunity to try it, anyway, because of political dipshiattery.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-05-08 07:36:03 AM
People mocked "club Fed."

The reform I want in America is reduction in length of imprisonment. Abolish life sentences. Cut mandatory minimum sentences. Change parole to have a presumption of parole unless proved otherwise, rather than the common system where the person is tried again for the original crime at every hearing.
 
2011-05-08 08:09:28 AM

Skail: I wonder if it would ever work in the States


Doesn't matter, because it would never happen. If this is too controversial for the UK, it's FAR too controversial here. This is a country that protests extravagant funding for the arts and foreign aid, when both are some of the lowest in the world, and you think something proved to work could get traction here?
 
2011-05-08 08:12:32 AM
Why not make it the new GITMO?

Maybe THAT would finally satisfy the world's liberals...

i53.tinypic.com
 
2011-05-08 08:39:35 AM
Well I'm convinced. Gato's political cartoon. POLITICAL CARTOON. It has me now seeing Gitmo in a whole new light. Thanks for setting us all straight on what it's actually like, Gato.

One day, have an opinion of your own though, that'll surprise us all.
 
2011-05-08 08:49:55 AM
www.dirtandseeds.com

All prisons should be this way.
 
2011-05-08 09:23:21 AM
So treating convicts with respect and addressing the issues that lead to the crime lowers the rate of reconviction?
 
2011-05-08 09:52:33 AM

Skail: Damn. That's interesting. I wonder if it would ever work in the States, though of course, we'd never get the opportunity to try it, anyway, because of political dipshiattery.


Oh, well that's fine and good for killers and meth dealers, but America has hardened weed-smokers and titty-dancers to lock up!
 
2011-05-08 10:05:24 AM
It will likely not catch on for a while. People are much more interested in vengeance than in rehabilitiation.
 
2011-05-08 10:14:47 AM
Having just re-watched Louis Theroux: Behind Bars (new window), I'm wondering if a change in penal ideas shouldn't be at least attempted.
 
2011-05-08 10:24:04 AM

ZAZ:

... Abolish life sentences. ...



Do you honestly believe that there are no convicts worthy of mortal removal from society?

Other than that I can pretty much agree agree with you.
 
2011-05-08 10:27:30 AM
www.watchcartoononline.com
 
2011-05-08 10:29:26 AM

Gato Negro: Why not make it the new GITMO?

Maybe THAT would finally satisfy the world's liberals...


Irrelevant. Those in Norwegian prisons have been charged (and subsequently convicted) of a crime.
 
2011-05-08 10:29:39 AM
Well that's just stupid. On the bright side, if I ever become homeless, I'm only a murder away from living a much better life.
 
2011-05-08 10:30:03 AM
The first pic shows a dude sunbathing, says he's in for murder.

Further down, another pic says the prison is for low-security inmates.

WTF?
 
2011-05-08 10:30:38 AM

darkyn: It will likely not catch on for a while. People are much more interested in vengeance than in rehabilitiation.


Yep. Our prison system is obviously broken, but the hate filled culture we live in (we're a christian nation!) means that any "reform" will basically result in concentration camps.
 
2011-05-08 10:32:24 AM

Nick Nostril: The first pic shows a dude sunbathing, says he's in for murder.

Further down, another pic says the prison is for low-security inmates.

WTF?


There are different degrees of murder.
 
2011-05-08 10:33:01 AM
I don't get it... people who don't have a lot going for them can just commit some low level crimes and get to go to a place where you sunbathe and get meals for free?

/didn't rtfa
 
2011-05-08 10:33:33 AM

Great_Milenko: There are different degrees of murder.


He must be in for the one that didn't result in somebody being dead.
 
2011-05-08 10:35:38 AM
Did they not already make a movie about this with Ray Liota??
 
2011-05-08 10:36:19 AM
Prison Mike disagrees with the headline.
 
2011-05-08 10:37:29 AM

Nick Nostril: The first pic shows a dude sunbathing, says he's in for murder.

Further down, another pic says the prison is for low-security inmates.

WTF?


One of the ferry workers is a drug dealer who shot another drug dealer to death. It seems the Norwegians are pretty chill over security.

The rehab aspect of the prison is something America needs. If you have a guy whose only skill is dealing drugs and you release him, guess what he gets a job doing? I'd like a prison system where the first couple of times you went to lower security areas (something kind of community college like but surrounded with barbed wire) and had a chance to learn some life skills.

Repeat offenders though end up with a cell, no cable TV and three meals a day.
 
2011-05-08 10:38:52 AM
Apparently they only have 21 year "life" sentences. Quaint. What would they do for someone like Jared Loughner?
 
2011-05-08 10:39:08 AM
fark that shiat. If you fark up in normal society, then you deserve several years of hard ass labor to make up for your stupidity and make our lives a bit easier in the process and maybe clean your act and learn a hard lesson like they did back in the old school days. Complete with a gun in the back of your head if you try anything stupid.

You farked up and you deserve to get farked yourself as punishment. You don't learn anything by being treated like a farking to tourist.


wwwdelivery.superstock.com
 
2011-05-08 10:40:04 AM

ha-ha-guy: The rehab aspect of the prison is something America needs. If you have a guy whose only skill is dealing drugs and you release him, guess what he gets a job doing?


That and since no one will hire a felon, he has to turn back to crime to put food on his family.
 
2011-05-08 10:40:09 AM

Great_Milenko: darkyn: It will likely not catch on for a while. People are much more interested in vengeance than in rehabilitiation.

Yep. Our prison system is obviously broken, but the hate filled culture we live in (we're a christian nation!) means that any "reform" will basically result in concentration camps.


so, vote republican.
 
2011-05-08 10:40:44 AM
Swedes and Norwegians have been known to take the rehabilitation approach when it comes to criminals.
In Sweden, there are some prisons where the inmates can come and go without a lot of fuss. It is similar to a work release program and they cannot drink, do drugs, or be terribly late getting to their dorm room.
I think Casey Anthony should rot, but that 21 year old girl who got prosecuted for manslaughter when a drunk guy fell out of her boat, well, she could use a little reform.
 
2011-05-08 10:40:53 AM
my god who here doesn't belong in jail
 
2011-05-08 10:42:12 AM

altinos: That and since no one will hire a felon, he has to turn back to crime to put food on his family.


Remind me to never eat dinner at your place, weirdo.
 
2011-05-08 10:42:34 AM
Obviously our current system doesn't work - see rate of recidivism - so we do need to look at alternative ways of transitioning people back into the greater society. Certainly no easy answers.

One aspect not really discussed in the article is the influence of culture on how prisons are operated. As mentioned by darkyn, our goal remains vengeance, and until we get serious about finding workable solutions to gangs, poverty, etc, we aren't likely to focus on how to transition offenders successfully and productively into the real world.

\stepping down from the soapbox
 
2011-05-08 10:43:06 AM

ThisNameSux: Well that's just stupid.


Mind if I ask why? It seems to be superior to a normal prison in every way - it's cheaper to run, the prisoners have a much lower rate of reoffending, and according to the governor there's never been a violent incident there.

What's the downside? Are you upset that they aren't hurting the prisoners enough?
 
2011-05-08 10:43:56 AM
I don't know. Why not do both?

Suffer punishment and hard ass labor at the start of your sentence, then some rehabilitation at the end to help you be productive in society?
 
2011-05-08 10:44:24 AM
The article shows that these are serious offenders, and not minor criminals -- as if that makes the prison's results even more impressive.

But I wonder if it's actually the other way around.
Would common street thugs appreciate the liberties they're given quite as much? Do these serious offenders tend to not re-offend because they know that this is their last chance; that if they go back to prison, it will almost definitely be a to a rougher, traditional one?

It also sounds a bit like this prison might be picking and choosing its inmates a little. If the administrators are selecting criminals who are most like to succeed at rehabilitation, then the results from this facility will be skewed and likely couldn't be replicated across the entire system.

I like the idea of focusing on the positives, encouraging rehabilitation and education, respecting the prisoners, and so on, but it's dangerous and simplistic to think that because it works in some cases, it will always work.
 
2011-05-08 10:45:11 AM

Panty Sniffer: Remind me to never eat dinner at your place, weirdo.


Link (new window)

Can't believe that was 11 years ago...damn.
 
2011-05-08 10:45:46 AM

altinos: Apparently they only have 21 year "life" sentences. Quaint. What would they do for someone like Jared Loughner?


Get him treatment for mental illness.
 
2011-05-08 10:46:11 AM

ZAZ: People mocked "club Fed."

The reform I want in America is reduction in length of imprisonment. Abolish life sentences. Cut mandatory minimum sentences. Change parole to have a presumption of parole unless proved otherwise, rather than the common system where the person is tried again for the original crime at every hearing.



Hanging would solve all of that.
 
2011-05-08 10:48:09 AM

TOSViolation: ZAZ: People mocked "club Fed."

The reform I want in America is reduction in length of imprisonment. Abolish life sentences. Cut mandatory minimum sentences. Change parole to have a presumption of parole unless proved otherwise, rather than the common system where the person is tried again for the original crime at every hearing.


Hanging would solve all of that.


Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!
 
2011-05-08 10:48:17 AM
No doubt the rehabilitative qualities of this approach show a lot of promise.

However, it no less than insults the justice due the victims of their crimes. If a man raped and murdered your wife or child, a resort prison would probably drive you to madness.
 
2011-05-08 10:49:10 AM

altinos: Panty Sniffer: Remind me to never eat dinner at your place, weirdo.

Link (new window)

Can't believe that was 11 years ago...damn.


Wow. That went completely over my head. Good work.
 
2011-05-08 10:49:35 AM
TFA was quite long, and I'm dealing with a 5 year old who needs outside, so I may have missed something but...

Here's where my confusion lies: The inmates APPEAR to be given better opportunities and chances to improve their lives than a normal non-criminal person would, outside of prison. That seems more than a little unfair to me.

I realize that the inmates were taken from closed prisons so they should have every indication of what happens if they fark up hanging over their heads, but I can think of maybe 30% of American youth (wild-ass guess) who'd consider committing a crime or two to have access to those education opportunities, the chance to get away from poisonous home environments and deadbeat towns and...

Have I completely missed the point here?
 
2011-05-08 10:50:01 AM

altinos: What would they do for someone like Jared Loughner?


Provide necessary medicine and therapy through their socialized healthcare system and avoid the shooting altogether?

/just a theory
 
2011-05-08 10:50:14 AM

Macinfarker: No doubt the rehabilitative qualities of this approach show a lot of promise.

However, it no less than insults the justice due the victims of their crimes. If a man raped and murdered your wife or child, a resort prison would probably drive you to madness.


Individuals don't get justice. Societies get justice. What you're talking about is "vengeance."
 
2011-05-08 10:52:09 AM
Looks like the kind of place the libs would have sent bin Laden if they could have captured him.
 
2011-05-08 10:53:27 AM
i.dailymail.co.uk

Worst Tardis dealership ever...
 
2011-05-08 10:53:52 AM
That would exist only for lawmakers, politicians and the rich who after being caught and if found guilty, would be sent for their rehabilitation. The public gets Sheriff Joe's Motel Styx.
 
2011-05-08 10:54:34 AM

Freezebyte: fark that shiat. If you fark up in normal society, then you deserve several years of hard ass labor to make up for your stupidity and make our lives a bit easier in the process and maybe clean your act and learn a hard lesson like they did back in the old school days. Complete with a gun in the back of your head if you try anything stupid.

You farked up and you deserve to get farked yourself as punishment. You don't learn anything by being treated like a farking to tourist.

TFA: He goes on to explain that because the Norwegian penal system has no death penalty or life terms and a maximum sentence of just 21 years, Norwegian society is forced to confront the fact that most prisoners, however heinous their crimes, will one day be released back into society. As a result by far the most significant statistic for Nilsen and Norway's law-abiding citizens is that of reoffending rates.
'Both society and the individual simply have to put aside their desire for revenge, and stop focusing on prisons as places of punishment and pain. Depriving a person of their freedom for a period of time is sufficient punishment in itself without any need whatsoever for harsh prison conditions.


I sense a conflict in values. America wants revenge (or "justice") by destroying the offender, while Norway wants to recondition offenders to behave. If their system gets better results, then what justifies doing anything different than they do?
 
2011-05-08 10:55:56 AM
So, they are learning to be ferry workers and other functioning members of society, instead of being thrown into cages? Sounds like a justice system, not a legal system.
 
2011-05-08 10:56:53 AM

Perducci: The article shows that these are serious offenders, and not minor criminals -- as if that makes the prison's results even more impressive.

But I wonder if it's actually the other way around.
Would common street thugs appreciate the liberties they're given quite as much? Do these serious offenders tend to not re-offend because they know that this is their last chance; that if they go back to prison, it will almost definitely be a to a rougher, traditional one?

It also sounds a bit like this prison might be picking and choosing its inmates a little. If the administrators are selecting criminals who are most like to succeed at rehabilitation, then the results from this facility will be skewed and likely couldn't be replicated across the entire system.

I like the idea of focusing on the positives, encouraging rehabilitation and education, respecting the prisoners, and so on, but it's dangerous and simplistic to think that because it works in some cases, it will always work.


TFA points out that this is actually a nation wide phenomenon in Norway. They have an overall recidivism rate of 20% compared to the 75-80% of the rest of Norway. This prison is just an unusual example of Norway's rehabilitation mindset.
 
2011-05-08 10:57:15 AM
An inmate working the prison kitchen. From Monday to Friday, inmates are responsible for getting up in time to have breakfast, make themselves a packed lunch and be at their place of work by 8.30am

OH. MY. GOD.

It's almost like they're getting them ready to re-enter proper society.

No matter how 'pushy', lost freedom still stings.

Aidan: TFA was quite long, and I'm dealing with a 5 year old who needs outside, so I may have missed something but...

Here's where my confusion lies: The inmates APPEAR to be given better opportunities and chances to improve their lives than a normal non-criminal person would, outside of prison. That seems more than a little unfair to me.

I realize that the inmates were taken from closed prisons so they should have every indication of what happens if they fark up hanging over their heads, but I can think of maybe 30% of American youth (wild-ass guess) who'd consider committing a crime or two to have access to those education opportunities, the chance to get away from poisonous home environments and deadbeat towns and...

Have I completely missed the point here?


In Scandinavia in general, IIRC, there is plenty of apprenticeships and whatnot for kids in high school already (who might not want college but they come out with skills for a decent skilled trade), plus no worry about health care costs, plus decent higher education, etc.

So it's not really a choice they *have* to make?

Although with the tuition raises in the UK, if they try to implement this there, yeah, I could see that happening.

Hobo throwing a brick through a window during the winter syndrome.
 
2011-05-08 10:57:51 AM
75-80% of the rest of Europe
 
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