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(NPR)   Philippine city holds mass circumcision for youths. Best deal given to families with coupon for 10% off   (npr.org) divider line 94
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2952 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2011 at 4:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-08 12:16:27 AM
In the Philippines, preadolescent and adolescent boys traditionally are circumcised during summer school break from March to May.

Lord, if we circumcised boys in the US when they were old enough to biatch about it, the practice would never have taken hold.
 
2011-05-08 12:18:46 AM
Does that include the tip?
 
2011-05-08 12:28:00 AM
img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-08 04:45:03 AM
But..But...it'll protect them from Aids and other nasty stuff. It's much cheaper than condoms and kids always prefer to buy sweets with their pocket money.
 
2011-05-08 04:45:15 AM
And women wonder why men always think about their penis. From the start, someone is trying to mess with it.
 
2011-05-08 04:47:04 AM
media.npr.org

I can haz penis tip back, pleeze?
 
2011-05-08 04:50:00 AM
GungFu: I can haz penis tip back, pleeze?

sorry, no

philippines-food.msg-style.com
 
2011-05-08 04:50:07 AM
... People are weird, man.

/their business I guess
 
2011-05-08 04:54:23 AM
Dammit! This is why I can't find a Mohel when I need one.

Where'd I leave those scissors.
 
2011-05-08 04:58:03 AM
But, how does he manage the discount? Does he cut a few corners?.
 
2011-05-08 04:59:53 AM
Officials say hundreds of boys in a Philippine city have turned out for a day-long "circumcision party" that aims to break the world record for the most number of participants in a circumcision event.

Ah yes, that elusive world record for the most number of participants in a circumcision event.
 
2011-05-08 05:01:29 AM
CygnusDarius: But, how does he manage the discount? Does he cut a few corners?.

he rounds off the remainder
 
2011-05-08 05:01:54 AM
Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason? I understand if they suffer from phimosis, but the overwhelming majority of boys do not have that problem. There's no medical reason to do it, and it breaks my heart to see these boys suffer because tradition says they have to. We recognize that female circumcision is mutilation, why can't we realize male circumcision is the same thing?

/I'm cut
//I want my foreskin back.
 
2011-05-08 05:07:56 AM

rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason? I understand if they suffer from phimosis, but the overwhelming majority of boys do not have that problem. There's no medical reason to do it, and it breaks my heart to see these boys suffer because tradition says they have to. We recognize that female circumcision is mutilation, why can't we realize male circumcision is the same thing?

/I'm cut
//I want my foreskin back.


media.giantbomb.com
 
2011-05-08 05:15:12 AM
There is no part of the series of photos in that article that doesn't say "Torture" to me.

Thank God my pediatrician told my parents no. -_-
 
2011-05-08 05:15:35 AM

rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason? I understand if they suffer from phimosis, but the overwhelming majority of boys do not have that problem. There's no medical reason to do it, and it breaks my heart to see these boys suffer because tradition says they have to. We recognize that female circumcision is mutilation, why can't we realize male circumcision is the same thing?

/I'm cut
//I want my foreskin back.


Oh yes, a mostly functional penis is just the same as a removed clitoris. You know what? You're going to have to get over it. We're all sorry you hate your penis. But the little foreskin isn't coming back. Nerve endings gone forever. Poof! I'm sorry your sex life isn't as good as you imagine it could be, but the foreskin probably isn't your problem.
 
2011-05-08 05:18:25 AM
Oh, and before someone starts a certain line of derp:

Not all women "prefer them circumcised." I don't give a darn if it's got a sweater or not. Clean and disease free? Okay, then.

/seriously, a dick is a dick, why would I care that much
 
2011-05-08 05:18:37 AM
Half-off all dicks
 
2011-05-08 05:24:34 AM

ultraholland: CygnusDarius: But, how does he manage the discount? Does he cut a few corners?.

he rounds off the remainder


But that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
2011-05-08 05:25:13 AM
Why were these boys in pain? Oxycodone's gone generic. And there's always gas, and novocaine, and...

As for circumcision, that really should be left up to the guy. I don't feel mutilated by being circumcised as an infant, but in principle a guy should decide what happens to his dick.
 
2011-05-08 05:29:17 AM
Worst Groupon deal EVAR.
 
2011-05-08 06:02:32 AM
In rural areas, the surgery is sometimes performed by non-doctors using crude methods.

and

media.npr.org

-but don't dare compare it to female genital mutilation. Cause its only wrong to cut the sex organs of female children.
 
2011-05-08 06:15:00 AM
Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.
 
2011-05-08 06:18:36 AM
Afterward, all the doctors had a big bowl of calamari.
 
2011-05-08 06:23:38 AM

gadian: Oh yes, a mostly functional penis is just the same as a removed clitoris. You know what? You're going to have to get over it. We're all sorry you hate your penis. But the little foreskin isn't coming back. Nerve endings gone forever. Poof! I'm sorry your sex life isn't as good as you imagine it could be, but the foreskin probably isn't your problem.


platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


C'mon people, let's at least get a bit of diversity in the trolling.
 
2011-05-08 06:24:50 AM

platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


Damn, are we whining about tiny bits of meat being cut off again? When I was a lad we had to worry about ritual sacrifice.

Tell you what, ladies, when female circumcision results in a 100% chance of total death, somebody waving your vital organs in your own face, and your flesh melting off within a matter of weeks, then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up ladies. Boohoo, you lost your pencil eraser. Get over it.

/or how about we agree they both farking suck, and not belittle the other side?
 
2011-05-08 06:27:36 AM
www.ugo.com
 
2011-05-08 06:28:35 AM

platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


I;m not a big fan of comparisations between the two but it's still a distinction of degree (which admittedly can make a great deal of diffrence), not kind.
 
2011-05-08 06:45:56 AM
There are two types of female circumcision. In one type the entire clitoris is removed. The other type they remove the clitoral hood but leave the clitoris so the woman can still orgasm. I do not see how the second type is any different than what we do to males.

If a simple circumcision was all that was needed for preventing AIDS then America and Africa would be two of the safest places in the world to have unprotected sex.

The HPV virus has a vaccine that prevents it in both males and females.

If you feel it is cleaner, do you really feel you don't have the parenting skills to teach your kids how to use soap and water? Furthermore, women get infections such as yeast infections all the time. I don't see a big push to start circumcising females because it's cleaner. If women don't bathe properly we get smegma as well. I also don't see a big push to start cutting off ears because someday your child might have an ear ache or ear infection.

If you feel a circumcised penis looks better, what kind of parent surgically alters their kid at birth to make them look better?

There is no medical reason to circumcise.

I am a woman and prefer the uncircumcised penis. A circumcised penis feels like riding sandpaper in comparison. My man restored his foreskin and he and I feel a noticeable difference for the
better.

Let the male choose when he turns 18.
 
2011-05-08 06:47:56 AM

omgwtfetc: platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.

I;m not a big fan of comparisations between the two but it's still a distinction of degree (which admittedly can make a great deal of diffrence), not kind.


In order to follow my own drunken train of thought, why is one so terrible and universally reviled while the other barely gets a "meh". You're still cutting off parts of someone's sexual organ.

Not saying male circumsision is necessarily wrong. I've just never understod why, outside of the religious context, people still consider it a reasonable thing to do. I doubt parents who choose to circumsice their kids do it so that the kids will have less chance of getting an STD once they start banging everything that moves.
 
2011-05-08 06:51:18 AM

Ed Finnerty: Worst Groupon deal EVAR.


Groupon....Groupoff.
 
2011-05-08 06:51:33 AM

platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


Yes, but you're comparing apples and oranges...

If female circumcisions were performed in a sterile environment by a surgeon, you wouldn't have those complications. Most of them are done without anaesthetic, and with primitive tools.

Sorry, but you can't call one "circumcision" and the other "genital mutilation"... I want my daughter to look just like her mother so government needs to get out of the equation...
 
2011-05-08 06:51:59 AM
Served at the after party:
img222.imageshack.us
 
2011-05-08 07:32:12 AM
i1083.photobucket.com

yay, mutilation thread!!

/not really yay
 
2011-05-08 07:44:13 AM
Torture is correct. I don't know if I would have the balls to line up like that. Hearing what must be going on would shrink my back into myself, NO thanks.....
 
2011-05-08 07:51:47 AM
What you don't want to hear during this event:

Oops!


Danny, have you ever thought of changing your name to Danielle?
 
2011-05-08 07:53:31 AM
barbarians
 
2011-05-08 07:59:32 AM

rebelyell2006: barbarians


Ya, pretty much this. I'm a woman and even I'm "feeling the pain" in this story. Those poor boys.
 
2011-05-08 08:06:55 AM

Ringshadow: Oh, and before someone starts a certain line of derp:

Not all women "prefer them circumcised." I don't give a darn if it's got a sweater or not. Clean and disease free? Okay, then.

/seriously, a dick is a dick, why would I care that much


This. Also, at least in my experience, the women who are grossed out by (clean, disease-free) uncircumcised penises are grossed out by all penises, cut or not.
 
2011-05-08 08:50:38 AM

Lsherm: In the Philippines, preadolescent and adolescent boys traditionally are circumcised during summer school break from March to May.

Lord, if we circumcised boys in the US when they were old enough to biatch about it, the practice would never have taken hold.


From TFA:
"I'm a big boy now," one boy who had just finished the surgery bragged.

Never underestimate male bravado.
 
2011-05-08 09:07:51 AM

Mouser: From TFA:
"I'm a big boy now," one boy who had just finished the surgery bragged.

Never underestimate male bravado.


It's also cultural, in a place where ritual genital mutilation is considered a part of becoming a man. Much like drinking one's first beer or losing one's virginity here in America. I don't think Americans, if given the option of circumcision at age 13, would willingly go for it.
 
2011-05-08 09:11:06 AM
The_Terminator

Best use of that pic so far. I lol'd
 
2011-05-08 09:44:24 AM
Philippine? Or Philistine?
 
2011-05-08 10:01:09 AM
So, your invisible sky-wizard rewards people in the afterlife for suffering.

How can one worship such a horribly sadistic being and not be considered retarded?
 
2011-05-08 10:04:44 AM
My wife was adamant that our son not get circumcised. I am circumcised, but I didn't care either way. He's not, and seems to be doing just fine. If it becomes a problem in his dating life later, he'll have the opportunity to change it if he wants.
 
2011-05-08 10:07:31 AM

MegaUngawa: Afterward, all the doctors had a big bowl of calamari.


Funyuns!
 
2011-05-08 10:15:39 AM
I should have read the thread before sourcing my own picture of that evening's dinner.

farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2011-05-08 10:16:25 AM
Day_Old_Dutchie Quote 2011-05-08 10:01:09 AM
So, your invisible sky-wizard rewards people in the afterlife for suffering.

How can one worship such a horribly sadistic being and not be considered retarded?


Weak threadjack, dude. Weak.
 
2011-05-08 10:27:16 AM

altinos: My wife was adamant that our son not get circumcised. I am circumcised, but I didn't care either way. He's not, and seems to be doing just fine. If it becomes a problem in his dating life later, he'll have the opportunity to change it if he wants.


As a teenager in the 90s, it was tough. I was born just before the 'why are we circumcising boys' question was raised, and I did worry about it. In reality, NO boy in their right mind would dare admit to looking at another in the shower... and now, gym doesn't really involve showering.

Now, when I went to the Air Force Academy. I remember lining up in a 30 man line, all naked, and having a 60 second shower. (10 seconds per stall, and you climb under the barrier when they blow the whistle) So you saw more than you wanted to of anything there, and in a place where hazing was rampant, not even a whisper.

The point is, no one gives a damn, and anyone that says anything is just illustrating their ignorance. Might as well make a comment that some guy has his ear pierced or not.

Now, having had my share of fun as a teenager, I never met a girl who even complained. In fact, many took it as an opportunity to... explore. It was new to them, exotic perhaps, and those that had never been with an uncut guy before seemed to be the ones that liked to be the most hands on with me.

Now happily married, it's farking great as part of the sex life. Not to get into the details, but many uncut guys have the option of either going natural, or retracted. So I get to do whichever I like depending on what I like that particular moment.


My real problem with it being a 'standard' procedure is that we have a real problem of treating 1000 people for the problem that may occur to the 1, with a procedure that itself has a complication rate. Even then, if an infection of the foreskin occurs, it can be treated then.

It would be like pre-emptively removing the toenail of the big toe from every newborn to fight ingrown/infected toenails. Ingrown toenails hurt like a biatch, but they can be treated when it happens, and you aren't performing a surgery that is useless for 99.9% of the people you perform it on.

That, and the whole issue that you are performing it on infants. We still do have an infant mortality problem, so why stress their immune systems with elective cosmetic surgery?

Long story short, I think you and your wife made a good decision, because now your son HAS the option to make the decision for himself if he so chooses.
 
2011-05-08 10:30:08 AM
I was told by a Philipino guy that the reason why they do it at an older age is so they understand what the pain of childbirth is like.

I always wondered if a kick to the balls would be sufficient, but whatever.
 
2011-05-08 11:15:37 AM
Kinda on topic, here's Herman Melville, on the practice of wearing the post-circumcision foreskin of the sperm whale:

http://books.google.com/books?id=urfKrxKSB5oC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=Melville+wear + a+whale+foreskin&source=bl&ots=4SAmdf-jrd&sig=_v6U7T-IoFG2Vqok8Eheea-bCn0&hl=en& ei=Q7PGTfrQLMfogQfS_4nNBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA #v=onepage&q&f=false
 
2011-05-08 11:19:43 AM

platedlizard: Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


Lady, I got circumcised when I was 25. It's more than a bit of skin, you git, and spreading propaganda to the contrary is not helpful. It's eminently comparable to cutting off the clitoral hood, not the clitoris itself. So think about that.
 
2011-05-08 11:43:05 AM

platedlizard: Damn, we're comparing male circumcision it female genital mutilation already?

Tell you what guys, when male circumcision commonly results in difficulty urinating, urinary infections, pain and bleeding during sex, and death during child birth then we'll talk.

Until then, suck it up guys. Boohoo, you lost a bit of skin. Get over it.


So you support Type 1A FGM for girls?
 
2011-05-08 11:49:00 AM

omgwtfetc: so that the kids will have less chance of getting an STD once they start banging everything that moves.


So let's take out everyone's tonsils and appendixes and install ear tubes. It'll lessen the chance of disease.
 
2011-05-08 12:03:44 PM
We'd better hurry up and settle this NFL lockout thing...Tim Tebow is going crazy over there.
 
2011-05-08 12:04:47 PM
Also, if we amputated all babies' arms at birth, it would completely eliminate broken arms suffered during sports later in life.
 
2011-05-08 12:07:51 PM

rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason?


"no good reason":

Randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that adult male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV acquisition in men by about 60%.

I can understand if you don't like the procedure for personal reasons, but science disagrees with your assessment. I'm guessing you're among the group that criticizes creationists or global warming deniers for their refusal to believe the results of scientific research -- until research comes up with a result you dislike for your own personal reasons.
 
2011-05-08 12:11:26 PM

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: yay, mutilation thread!!

/not really yay


I'm totally stealing THIS!
 
2011-05-08 12:27:58 PM

jshine: rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason?

"no good reason":

Randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that adult male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV acquisition in men by about 60%.

I can understand if you don't like the procedure for personal reasons, but science disagrees with your assessment. I'm guessing you're among the group that criticizes creationists or global warming deniers for their refusal to believe the results of scientific research -- until research comes up with a result you dislike for your own personal reasons.


If you cut the clitoris and labia off of a girl it lowers her chance of HIV infection too. Because she's been mutilated and nobody will touch her.

There is no good reason to cut off a mans foreskin. You can wear a condom. You can wash your junk and keep it from getting diseased. Both prevent illness and the spread of HIV.

If you want to cut a mans foreskin off, Wait until hes 21 and see how he feels about making that choice for himself as a man.

Let me give you a hint, They're not going to let you take a knife to the most sensitive part of their dick.
 
2011-05-08 12:29:52 PM

fluffy2097: jshine: rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason?

"no good reason":

Randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that adult male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV acquisition in men by about 60%.

I can understand if you don't like the procedure for personal reasons, but science disagrees with your assessment. I'm guessing you're among the group that criticizes creationists or global warming deniers for their refusal to believe the results of scientific research -- until research comes up with a result you dislike for your own personal reasons.

If you cut the clitoris and labia off of a girl it lowers her chance of HIV infection too. Because she's been mutilated and nobody will touch her.

There is no good reason to cut off a mans foreskin. You can wear a condom. You can wash your junk and keep it from getting diseased. Both prevent illness and the spread of HIV.

If you want to cut a mans foreskin off, Wait until hes 21 and see how he feels about making that choice for himself as a man.

Let me give you a hint, They're not going to let you take a knife to the most sensitive part of their dick.


All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.
 
2011-05-08 12:32:56 PM

jshine: All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.


Really? Bullshiat. Cultures all over the world don't mutilate their penises and have no problem with disease.

We should probably kill everyone who's born with a weak constitution to prevent the spread of disease. That will make our scientific numbers look much better. Who cares if we're chopping things off living people that they might want.
 
2011-05-08 12:33:05 PM
Gotta love people who are are able to be indoctrinated into believing that mutilating young males across the world as a possible preventative measure is either a good idea or humane. Or the trolls who for money or laughs just write it off as part of life.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-05-08 12:35:31 PM

Dr. Goldshnoz: Gotta love people who are are able to be indoctrinated into believing that mutilating young males across the world as a possible preventative measure is either a good idea or humane. Or the trolls who for money or laughs just write it off as part of life.


I think it's kind of like

"I never washed my dick even once growing up and it was always covered in filthy nastiness. So If I hadn't been circumcised I would have gotten an infection in my penis from not bathing. Therefore Every man in the world should have no choice but to have the tip of their dick cut off so that I can let my children roll around in the dirt and never bathe them.
 
2011-05-08 12:37:38 PM

jshine: All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.


How does having an open wound on your penis where you have literally torn the skin off his dick make you safer?

Aren't open wounds a place that gets infected often?
 
2011-05-08 12:42:58 PM
www.jeffreysharp.org
Here is a thought. If you want to get your kids circumcised...go ahead. If you do not want to get your kids circumcised...then don't.
 
2011-05-08 12:48:16 PM

Tellingthem: Here is a thought. If you want to get your kids circumcised...go ahead. If you do not want to get your kids circumcised...then don't.


When did it become the parent's penis to chop off?

I'm pretty sure that's should be the child's choice.

and I'm VERY sure they're all gonna say no.
 
2011-05-08 01:01:17 PM

jshine: rel-yo: Can we please stop circumcising boys for no good reason?

"no good reason":

Randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that adult male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV acquisition in men by about 60%.

I can understand if you don't like the procedure for personal reasons, but science disagrees with your assessment. I'm guessing you're among the group that criticizes creationists or global warming deniers for their refusal to believe the results of scientific research -- until research comes up with a result you dislike for your own personal reasons.


By the same author:

Lack of male circumcision has also been
associated with sexually transmitted genital
ulcer disease and chlamydia, infant urinary tract
infections, penile cancer, and cervical cancer
in female partners of uncircumcised men...

A recent meta-analysis included
26 studies that assessed the association between
male circumcision and risk for genital ulcer
disease. The analysis concluded that there was a
significantly lower risk for syphilis and chancroid
among circumcised men...

She reports that minor bleeding is basically the only drawback.

Circumcision: A cure-all remedy; capable of curing diseases that didn't even exist when it was popularized.

Almost makes me wanna go out and get bits of my dick cut off.
 
2011-05-08 01:02:08 PM

fluffy2097: Tellingthem: Here is a thought. If you want to get your kids circumcised...go ahead. If you do not want to get your kids circumcised...then don't.

When did it become the parent's penis to chop off?

I'm pretty sure that's should be the child's choice.

and I'm VERY sure they're all gonna say no.


hyperbole aside. This is something that goes back thousands of years and is a tradition for many cultures and religions. Maybe it is an outdated and silly practice. But I feel that there are many other issues that demand more immediate attention than this. (drug abuse, alcoholism, homelessness, disease, starvation, war, slavery etc.) But if you feel the need to fight against circumcision instead. More power to ya man. I'm going to focus on the issues I feel pose a much bigger threat to society.

\I am cut
\\works fine
 
2011-05-08 01:10:29 PM

jshine: All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.


The studies have not been replicable in the first world and there have been just a handful of studies which have found correlation where dozens of studies in the first world have found none.

If I test something to a P-Value of 0.05 one hundred times, odds are I will have 5 positive results. To then cling to those five positive results and claim "hey look, I've proven myself correct" is not valid science.
 
2011-05-08 01:11:38 PM
From the looks of the images, apparently no one told the physicians that a local anasthetic should be applied before slicing into the sensitive tissues. Circumcision done right after birth is about the best way, since the infant will not recall anything later on.

I suspect that doing this in a public even isn't all that good for the psych either.
 
2011-05-08 01:12:51 PM

Tellingthem: But I feel that there are many other issues that demand more immediate attention than this.


Obviously not, because you're wasting to spend time arguing against it.

Don't you have a war to stop?
 
2011-05-08 01:23:27 PM

ThematicDevice: Tellingthem: But I feel that there are many other issues that demand more immediate attention than this.

Obviously not, because you're wasting to spend time arguing against it.

Don't you have a war to stop?


Touche...
 
2011-05-08 01:28:20 PM

Tellingthem: This is something that goes back thousands of years and is a tradition for many cultures and religions


That is a wonderful reason to do anything.

People used to own slaves too. Maybe we should bring those back, I need someone to mow my lawn for me anyways, and it's a cultural and religious thing that's been done for thousands of years so it can't possibly be immoral.
 
2011-05-08 01:42:56 PM

ThematicDevice: The studies have not been replicable in the first world


We're talking about the Philippines here -- not a first-world country, and one where (due to a strong Catholic influence), condoms may be less common than in the US.
 
2011-05-08 01:45:39 PM

fluffy2097: jshine: All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.

How does having an open wound on your penis where you have literally torn the skin off his dick make you safer?

Aren't open wounds a place that gets infected often?


The kids in TFA appear to be pre-teens, so odds are good that they are not having sex in the few weeks that it will take for the wound to heal. Having sex with an open wound on the genitals would be a risk factor in contracting AIDS or other STDs.
 
2011-05-08 01:51:20 PM

jshine: The kids in TFA appear to be pre-teens, so odds are good that they are not having sex in the few weeks that it will take for the wound to heal.


And are they going to shower enough to keep it clean during those weeks? Are they going to have access to clean water? fresh bandages? I bet at least one of them will end up with gangrene on their dick and it will fall off.

Yay unnecessary medical procedures! Nothing like an open wound in a 3rd world country to spread disease.
 
2011-05-08 01:53:31 PM

fluffy2097: jshine: All that is well & good, but the "no good reason" bit is demonstrably false in a scientific sense.

Really? Bullshiat. Cultures all over the world don't mutilate their penises and have no problem with disease.

We should probably kill everyone who's born with a weak constitution to prevent the spread of disease. That will make our scientific numbers look much better. Who cares if we're chopping things off living people that they might want.


The study I quoted relates to AIDs, where circumcision was shown to reduce the risk of transmission by ~60%. AIDs is not an old disease (absolute earliest identification of HIV around 1960), so it's not something that any cultures have traditionally adapted to deal with.

And I'd question your claim that "Cultures all over the world ... have no problem with disease."

upload.wikimedia.org

That map appears to indicate a "problem" to me.
 
2011-05-08 01:57:12 PM
That map has a lot more to do with the catholic church calling condoms evil then because people have the tips of their dick or not.

Do you really think that foreskins are the cause of the spread of AIDS in Africa? Because I've got a completely safe nuclear reactor I'd like you to buy in Fukushima japan....
 
2011-05-08 02:00:56 PM

fluffy2097: That map has a lot more to do with the catholic church calling condoms evil then because people have the tips of their dick or not.

Do you really think that foreskins are the cause of the spread of AIDS in Africa? Because I've got a completely safe nuclear reactor I'd like you to buy in Fukushima japan....


Any factor that significantly reduces the transmission rate of the disease will lower the number of people who are infected. I'm all in favor of condoms, too, obviously, but they require repeated & consistent usage. Circumcision does not.

...and, of course, the two approaches are not mutually-exclusive.
 
2011-05-08 02:02:36 PM

jshine: The study I quoted relates to AIDs, where circumcision was shown to reduce the risk of transmission by ~60%. AIDs is not an old disease (absolute earliest identification of HIV around 1960), so it's not something that any cultures have traditionally adapted to deal with.

And I'd question your claim that "Cultures all over the world ... have no problem with disease."


Whats the circumcision rate in Europe, what is their HIV rate?

jshine: The study I quoted relates to AIDs, where circumcision was shown to reduce the risk of transmission by ~60%.


You conduct enough studies eventually one of them will find your desired correlation. The study you cited is nothing more then evidence of that. It is one of dozens, which was selectively chosen because it was one of the few with a correlation.
 
2011-05-08 02:05:04 PM

fluffy2097: That map has a lot more to do with the catholic church calling condoms evil then because people have the tips of their dick or not.

Do you really think that foreskins are the cause of the spread of AIDS in Africa? Because I've got a completely safe nuclear reactor I'd like you to buy in Fukushima japan....


Also, what is it with the scientific double-standard? The arguments I'm encountering in this thread remind me of Bevets trying to discredit evolution, or one of the right-wingers hacking away at global warming evidence.

If you're determined to reach a particular conclusion, I'm sure that -- through a sustained process of iterative nit-picking -- you can eventually find some area of uncertainty in the data. ...but that doesn't reflect a even-minded & rational analysis of the data.
 
2011-05-08 02:08:48 PM

jshine: even-minded & rational analysis


LETS CUT THEIR DICKS OFF! WOOOOO!!!! I'M SO RATIONAL RIGHT NOW I WANNA MUTILATE SOMEONE! AIDS AIDS AIDS FEAR FEAR!
 
2011-05-08 02:09:00 PM

ThematicDevice: Whats the circumcision rate in Europe, what is their HIV rate?


More relevant to TFA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_the_Philippines

Officially, the Philippines is a low-HIV-prevalence country, with less than 0.1 percent of the adult population estimated to be HIV-positive. As of September 2008, the Department of Health (DOH) AIDS Registry in the Philippines reported 3,456 people living with HIV/AIDS (PLWHA)- www.plwha.org . UNAIDS estimates that 12,000 Filipinos were HIV-positive by the end of 2005.[1]

...

Several factors put the Philippines in danger of a broader HIV/AIDS epidemic. They include increasing population mobility within and outside of the Philippine islands; a conservative culture, adverse to publicly discussing issues of a sexual nature; rising levels of sex work, casual sex, unsafe sex, and injecting drug use.[1]

There is also high STI prevalence and poor health-seeking behaviors among at-risk groups; gender inequality; weak integration of HIV/AIDS responses in local government activities; shortcomings in prevention campaigns; inadequate social and behavioral research and monitoring; and the persistence of stigma and discrimination, which results in the relative invisibility of PLWHA. Lack of knowledge about HIV among the Filipino population is troubling. Approximately two-thirds of young women lack comprehensive knowledge on HIV transmission, and 90 percent of the population of reproductive age believe you can contract HIV by sharing a meal with someone.[1]
 
2011-05-08 02:14:20 PM

fluffy2097: jshine: even-minded & rational analysis

LETS CUT THEIR DICKS OFF! WOOOOO!!!! I'M SO RATIONAL RIGHT NOW I WANNA MUTILATE SOMEONE! AIDS AIDS AIDS FEAR FEAR!


www.seoboy.com

/okay, thread has devolved into shouting -- looks like we're done here
 
2011-05-08 02:27:50 PM

jshine:

That map appears to indicate a "problem" to me.


All the blood is draining to the lower half of Africa?
 
2011-05-08 02:31:07 PM
standbymemovie.webs.com

Wil is NOT amused.
 
2011-05-08 04:57:10 PM

jshine: fluffy2097: That map has a lot more to do with the catholic church calling condoms evil then because people have the tips of their dick or not.

Do you really think that foreskins are the cause of the spread of AIDS in Africa? Because I've got a completely safe nuclear reactor I'd like you to buy in Fukushima japan....

Also, what is it with the scientific double-standard? The arguments I'm encountering in this thread remind me of Bevets trying to discredit evolution, or one of the right-wingers hacking away at global warming evidence.

If you're determined to reach a particular conclusion, I'm sure that -- through a sustained process of iterative nit-picking -- you can eventually find some area of uncertainty in the data. ...but that doesn't reflect a even-minded & rational analysis of the data.


People are naturally sceptical, since the medical profession pushed this procedure with little justification except to make quick money for MANY decades before your study came out.

Just for fun, GIS "botched circumcision"...lawyer buddy of mine used to do insurance defense work for a very hard-nosed Boston lawyer.

Those were the ONLY cases he'd settle, basically for whatever the plaintiff wanted; everything else went to trial.

Now, consider the fact that there were enough of these cases to have a policy regarding them...
 
2011-05-08 05:39:39 PM
Lots of cities have held mass circumcisions, and it worked out all right. Just look at Shechem - oh, wait...
 
2011-05-08 05:42:42 PM

jshine: ThematicDevice: Whats the circumcision rate in Europe, what is their HIV rate?

More relevant to TFA:


Looks like you listed a number of things that the Philippine government should be addressing. Rather then relying on the pointless medical treatments charlatans like you are attempting to pass of as well established medical procedures. When AIDs spread in the US it did so when the vast majority of adult men were circumcised.

With enough studies you can prove just about everything. The medical community has been devoted to finding some justification for circumcision for generations, its resulted in hundreds of studies each one coming up with little to no justification. STIs have been pointed to for decades as well to no effect. They finally found a handful of studies which supported their conclusion and suddenly you want to ignore the decades of research because you finally got lucky with your sample size.

Study long enough and eventually you'll get the answer you want.
 
2011-05-08 08:57:25 PM

ThematicDevice: jshine: ThematicDevice: Whats the circumcision rate in Europe, what is their HIV rate?

More relevant to TFA:

Looks like you listed a number of things that the Philippine government should be addressing. Rather then relying on the pointless medical treatments charlatans like you are attempting to pass of as well established medical procedures. When AIDs spread in the US it did so when the vast majority of adult men were circumcised.

With enough studies you can prove just about everything. The medical community has been devoted to finding some justification for circumcision for generations, its resulted in hundreds of studies each one coming up with little to no justification. STIs have been pointed to for decades as well to no effect. They finally found a handful of studies which supported their conclusion and suddenly you want to ignore the decades of research because you finally got lucky with your sample size.

Study long enough and eventually you'll get the answer you want.



You don't like my last link -- fine. Granted, you didn't specify any particular arguments against the author's data, but this is Fark, the bar is low.

...so here's a review article of multiple studies -- not just one study. Oh look!, the results are the same:

Three randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that circumcision reduces the risk of acquiring HIV infection in men by approximately 60%.

/But all the story of the night told over,
And their minds transfigur'd so together,
More witnesseth than fancy's images,
And grows to something of great constancy,
But howsoever strange, and admirable.

--Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Scene V
 
2011-05-08 09:35:58 PM
jshine Quote 2011-05-08 01:42:56 PM
ThematicDevice: The studies have not been replicable in the first world

We're talking about the Philippines here -- not a first-world country, and one where (due to a strong Catholic influence), condoms may be less common than in the US.


Less common? You mean condoms that are available at most any corner convenience store and even in hotel rooms? Been there many times and that's nonsense. Yes, they're beyond crazy Catholic, but that doesn't translate to condoms anymore.
 
2011-05-08 09:39:10 PM

SirEattonHogg: Less common? You mean condoms that are available at most any corner convenience store and even in hotel rooms? Been there many times and that's nonsense. Yes, they're beyond crazy Catholic, but that doesn't translate to condoms anymore.


Good to know.
 
2011-05-08 09:44:58 PM
Having my first kid (a boy) pretty soon, and though the boyfriend and I are both non-religious, there's pressure from my Catholic family to christen, and from his Jewish family to circumcise. My family gave up easily enough when I told them 'no', but my guy's half of the family has used every conceivable pro-circumcision argument on me, whether baseless (it helps prevent bed-wetting?!) to somewhat true.

From everything I've read and been told by docs, yes it does help to prevent AIDS and some STDs. But I live in Canada, not Africa - we have access to condoms and sex-ed, and I plan on teaching responsibility and cleanliness (in other words, being a decent parent). Maybe in third-world countries circumcision is a good call, but I have trouble seeing it as anything other than unnecessary/cosmetic surgery on a newborn. Healthcare does not cover it in my province for this reason, my doctor does not recommend it since I'm not religious, and it just sounds goddamn brutal.
 
2011-05-09 12:34:55 AM

jshine: Three randomized controlled trials in sub-Saharan Africa have shown that circumcision reduces the risk of acquiring HIV infection in men by approximately 60%.

/But all the story of the night told over,
And their minds transfigur'd so together,
More witnesseth than fancy's images,
And grows to something of great constancy,
But howsoever strange, and admirable.
--Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Scene V



Methinks you need to go out and Google "risk homeostasis"...
 
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