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(MSNBC)   President Obama decides NOT to release Bin Laden photos   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 884
    More: News, President Obama, Osama bin Laden, Leon Panetta, Jay Carney, house intelligence committee, offer of proof, NBC Nightly News, covert operations  
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9089 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2011 at 3:35 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-04 06:29:31 PM

vento: I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but I'm perfectly OK with this. I agree with his reasoning for not releasing the pictures and I also give him full credit for an amazingly gutsy call on the raid.

/credit where credit is due


lets not forget the call to headshot those asshole pirates who had one of our boat captains.

I'd say Obama is building a solid resume for having big brass balls.
 
2011-05-04 06:31:22 PM

ssa5: If people really believe some whackjob conspiracies, then photos are not going to prove anything.


Most people on the conspiracy boards I've been watching have already said if one's released, it'll be photoshopped/years old/some other dead guy who looks like him. Releasing it won't shut up a lot of people.

I'm in favor of releasing it to shut people up, I just don't think it will stop most of the doubters.
 
2011-05-04 06:31:23 PM

PawisBetlog: vento: I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but I'm perfectly OK with this. I agree with his reasoning for not releasing the pictures and I also give him full credit for an amazingly gutsy call on the raid.

/credit where credit is due

lets not forget the call to headshot those asshole pirates who had one of our boat captains.

I'd say Obama is building a solid resume for having big brass balls.



If ordering others to kill means you have big brass balls, what do you think of Bush's balls?
 
2011-05-04 06:31:53 PM

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Add in, what does a photograph prove? Nothing really. I'm sure, if need be, Obama can have someone shoop up something to release. I mean, he did it for his long form BC (amidoinitrite?)


But for reals, the only way to get definitive proof would have been to be on-ground, take a tissue sample at time of death, maintain physical custody through the entire testing procedure, etcetc. Anything else could be faked, see?


So why not just bomb the compound then? No reason to recover his body ourselves or risk troop lives to get this "proof" that could have been gotten from the rubble.
 
2011-05-04 06:32:31 PM
No photos, no videos, no body, no interviews with SEALs.

Oooooooook. What?

/Seriously... the FarkLibs here would be BLOWING A GASKET if W did this. I think Obama made a great choice in the approach of the attack and up until the moment he said he wasn't releasing the photos I thought he was dead on. Now, not so much.

//Give me a break. Show the picture. If you are going to do things in the name of AMERICA, then you better damn well include the farking AMERICANS in the process. Jesus christ.
 
2011-05-04 06:34:27 PM

Epiphany: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Add in, what does a photograph prove? Nothing really. I'm sure, if need be, Obama can have someone shoop up something to release. I mean, he did it for his long form BC (amidoinitrite?)


But for reals, the only way to get definitive proof would have been to be on-ground, take a tissue sample at time of death, maintain physical custody through the entire testing procedure, etcetc. Anything else could be faked, see?

So why not just bomb the compound then? No reason to recover his body ourselves or risk troop lives to get this "proof" that could have been gotten from the rubble.


All the intel they retrieved from the computers?
 
2011-05-04 06:35:41 PM

jigger: Surool: jigger: Surool: If he were alive, all Osama would have to do is put out a video proving he is alive to blow the US government out of the water. For some reason, there are complete morons out there that don't think Osama and AQ wouldn't jump at the chance to do just that.

Who says he's still alive?

Why are people demanding to see the photos if they don't think he's still alive? AQ says he's dead. What does seeing the photos get you if you think he's dead? Why is it a big deal?

Or..

1. He was killed well before and the body either destroyed or kept on ice.

2. He died while still in hiding and his body will never be found.

3. He was captured alive.

etc.

There are more than the two options of 'he was killed the other day and his body was dumped in the ocean' and 'he's still alive and in hiding.'


If you believe he's dead, this makes no sense. Keeping him dead on ice makes no sense either, since the timing would have been waaaay better September 2012.

Why are the survivors of the raid, people just a smidgen loyal to Osama backing up the story? A couple of Osama's wives are gonna back up our story of killing him in a raid? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

If you people can't even argue logically, what is the point of providing you with the exact evidence you ask for. It's obvious you'll claim the photos are fake.
 
2011-05-04 06:35:51 PM
Anybody know if they're at least allowing foreign leaders to view the photos and video?
 
2011-05-04 06:37:29 PM
USA: So where is the body?

Govt: Oh we tossed it into the ocean...

USA: Oh... but you have pictures right?

Govt: Yeah... but we're not going to release them

USA: Oh ok...


I won't blame people for asking questions this time around... I mean I'm just going to accept that he is dead, but I think Pakistan is full of crap that they didn't know he was there
 
2011-05-04 06:38:21 PM

Epiphany: leads me to believe something farked up happened with him that we don't know about.


yes, when they stripped him of this clothing they discovered he was a transgender and you know U.S. there's no way we would let ourselves be punked by a homo non-marrying trans gender, it's unholy and unconstitutional.

Vote Republican!
 
2011-05-04 06:38:34 PM

Epiphany: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Add in, what does a photograph prove? Nothing really. I'm sure, if need be, Obama can have someone shoop up something to release. I mean, he did it for his long form BC (amidoinitrite?)


But for reals, the only way to get definitive proof would have been to be on-ground, take a tissue sample at time of death, maintain physical custody through the entire testing procedure, etcetc. Anything else could be faked, see?

So why not just bomb the compound then? No reason to recover his body ourselves or risk troop lives to get this "proof" that could have been gotten from the rubble.


1) We still have the photos and can release them whenever we want
2) Obama was told they were only 60-80% sure Bin Laden was there
3) Potential for important intelligence in the house
4) You're either trolling or don't think very logically
 
2011-05-04 06:38:36 PM
I agree with the decision not to release the pictures. It was wrong to release the pictures of Saddam's sons back then, and it's wrong now. It's not going to silence the naysayers, and it just makes us look barbaric.

When even Al Qaeda doesn't dispute he's dead, he's freaking dead.
 
2011-05-04 06:39:23 PM
The Freedom of Information Act will take care of this. Good luck with the "National Defense Secret" argument. Dickheads.
 
2011-05-04 06:40:05 PM

sillydragon: Epiphany: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Add in, what does a photograph prove? Nothing really. I'm sure, if need be, Obama can have someone shoop up something to release. I mean, he did it for his long form BC (amidoinitrite?)


But for reals, the only way to get definitive proof would have been to be on-ground, take a tissue sample at time of death, maintain physical custody through the entire testing procedure, etcetc. Anything else could be faked, see?

So why not just bomb the compound then? No reason to recover his body ourselves or risk troop lives to get this "proof" that could have been gotten from the rubble.

All the intel they retrieved from the computers?


Legit point. Also, I hadn't thought of the opportunity to maybe take the couriers alive for interrogation. I retract that one point, still think it's wrong not to release the pictures tho.

Surool: Why are the survivors of the raid, people just a smidgen loyal to Osama backing up the story?


The "reports" are coming from unnamed Pakistani officials and have been disputed, including the report that his daughter saw us capture him then execute him.

I believe he's dead, but the reasons you people are giving aren't proof.
 
2011-05-04 06:41:41 PM
Shouldn't the sheer fact al-Qaeda admitted he was killed be enough? It's not like they're all, "NUH-UH! HE'S OKAY, HE'S RIGHT HERE IN- OOOOOOOOH, YOU ALMOST GOT ME, INFIDEL! VERY TRICKY!"
 
2011-05-04 06:42:33 PM
Pretty much, the only reason I'd see for demanding the photos, is so some wingnut can plug it into PS, play with brightness/contrast settings, then claim compression artifacts as proof that ITSAFAKE.

As for not releasing photos to perpetuate some sort of coverup...maybe. See above, SEAL team deciding to go "I AM THE LAW!" and take out OBL rather than a capture. Makes sense, the US wouldn't want to get backed into a corner, putting what we'd consider the heroes of the decade into a warcrimes trial.
 
2011-05-04 06:43:01 PM

Epiphany: So why not just bomb the compound then? No reason to recover his body ourselves or risk troop lives to get this "proof" that could have been gotten from the rubble.


1. Because they weren't trying to gain proof for you, you silly fark.

2. Because of the potential intelligence treasure trove the place appears to have turned out to be.
 
2011-05-04 06:43:27 PM

Isitoveryet: Epiphany: leads me to believe something farked up happened with him that we don't know about.

yes, when they stripped him of this clothing they discovered he was a transgender and you know U.S. there's no way we would let ourselves be punked by a homo non-marrying trans gender, it's unholy and unconstitutional.

Vote Republican!


I was thinking more along the lines of things that the government wouldn't want us or the terrorists to see that could be in the picture/pictures. Maybe excessive shiat, like what if the seals took turns stabbing him in the face when he was dead or shiat like that? Things Obama would not have approved but might have been done in the heat of the moment?

Questions I wouldn't even have if not for the immediate burial and refusal to release any evidence.

/I beleive we killed him
//this is still fishy
 
2011-05-04 06:43:39 PM
Here's a simple reason why you should believe Osama is dead despite not having pictures:

Don't you think the greatest thing for an Al Queda recruitment surge would be for Osama to release a video saying he wasn't dead and this is all a lie?

Do you think the administration, knowing how easy it would be for his death to be disproved, would orchestrate such a worldwide hoax?

Use some common sense people. For farks sake.
 
2011-05-04 06:44:46 PM

Shrugging Atlas: 1. Because they weren't trying to gain proof for you, you silly fark.


It's been stated over and over again that the main reason we went in there was so that we would have proof that we got him and killed him. Obama wanted to be 100 percent sure and he is.
 
2011-05-04 06:44:59 PM

Epiphany: You realize that none of the things you just mentioned is "proof" right?



I didn't say that it was. I just said that if we had this same evidence and Bush was in power, it wouldn't matter to me - I would still accept that it happened.
 
2011-05-04 06:48:20 PM

Surool: jigger: Surool: jigger: Surool: If he were alive, all Osama would have to do is put out a video proving he is alive to blow the US government out of the water. For some reason, there are complete morons out there that don't think Osama and AQ wouldn't jump at the chance to do just that.

Who says he's still alive?

Why are people demanding to see the photos if they don't think he's still alive? AQ says he's dead. What does seeing the photos get you if you think he's dead? Why is it a big deal?

Or..

1. He was killed well before and the body either destroyed or kept on ice.

2. He died while still in hiding and his body will never be found.

3. He was captured alive.

etc.

There are more than the two options of 'he was killed the other day and his body was dumped in the ocean' and 'he's still alive and in hiding.'

If you believe he's dead, this makes no sense. Keeping him dead on ice makes no sense either, since the timing would have been waaaay better September 2012.



Actually the timing would have been better September 2004, but it wasn't needed. Actually the timing of July or August would have been better.


Why are the survivors of the raid, people just a smidgen loyal to Osama backing up the story? A couple of Osama's wives are gonna back up our story of killing him in a raid? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

If you people can't even argue logically, what is the point of providing you with the exact evidence you ask for. It's obvious you'll claim the photos are fake.


Please don't lump me in with anyone else.

I also haven't seen any survivors or know that they are actually who they say they are.

Look. bin Laden is dead. We don't have to worry about him anymore whether he died the other day or years ago. But when the government treats the subjects like children it pisses me off.
 
2011-05-04 06:49:58 PM

PawisBetlog: vento: I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but I'm perfectly OK with this. I agree with his reasoning for not releasing the pictures and I also give him full credit for an amazingly gutsy call on the raid.

/credit where credit is due

lets not forget the call to headshot those asshole pirates who had one of our boat captains.

I'd say Obama is building a solid resume for having big brass balls.


The politicians sitting in highly secure offices with security details always have the biggest brass balls when it comes to sending soldiers into harms way.

Why do they always send the poor?
 
2011-05-04 06:51:06 PM
We don't need to see the photographs. The Great Father knows what is best for us.
 
2011-05-04 06:53:18 PM
Here's another thought: Obama released his birth certificate to the screams of window-licking knucke-draggers of 'OMGZ ITS A SHOP', and it didn't satisfy them.

Now he has that to use as ammo here: Even if he released the photos, they wouldn't believe it anyway.
 
2011-05-04 06:54:02 PM

Epiphany: It's been stated over and over again that the main reason we went in there was so that we would have proof that we got him and killed him. Obama wanted to be 100 percent sure and he is.


Which is exactly the point I just made to you when you asked "So why not just bomb the compound then." The administration has all the proof he was killed that they need as a result of the raid. End of story. They didn't go through with this raid so they could proove they killed him to people on the internet.
 
2011-05-04 06:54:53 PM
It's refreshingly logical to assert that the fact that no one will ever see Bin Laden alive is sufficient proof that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is free to search for him. It's actually a brilliant way to keep the birthers and other nuts busy, forever. Keep looking, guys!
 
2011-05-04 06:55:19 PM

D-Liver: Don't you think the greatest thing for an Al Queda recruitment surge would be for Osama to release a video saying he wasn't dead and this is all a lie?


I'm kind of surprised they never thought to film a statement like this just to fark with people in the event that he was killed. Imagine the epic troll if a video came out in the next few days with Osama claiming that he was alive and well and that the USA was lying about him having been killed.
 
2011-05-04 06:55:50 PM

Giltric: PawisBetlog: vento: I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but I'm perfectly OK with this. I agree with his reasoning for not releasing the pictures and I also give him full credit for an amazingly gutsy call on the raid.

/credit where credit is due

lets not forget the call to headshot those asshole pirates who had one of our boat captains.

I'd say Obama is building a solid resume for having big brass balls.

The politicians sitting in highly secure offices with security details always have the biggest brass balls when it comes to sending soldiers into harms way.

Why do they always send the poor?


What are you talking about? No one came to someones door and said they have to go into the Army. Plus a huge majority of the people 25 and younger are poor in general no matter what their job is.
 
2011-05-04 06:56:29 PM

muck4doo: tulpen: muck4doo: Okay. New conspiracy. Rumors are going around saying that Osama was captured alive, and executed in front of his family while begging for his life. The body was dumped and the pictures aren't being released because they would show the burns next to the bullet hole at his temple.

/Looks good?

Is this an actual conspiracy theory? On a variety of levels, it is unfathomable that Osama begged the Navy Seals not to kill him.

Why? Do you think he's a brave man? He's been hiding for years, and always sent tools out to do his dirty work.


I wasn't suggesting that he was brave, but he was certainly brimming with his special crazy brand of "pride" and religious zealotry (as maskedloser also mentioned above). There's just no way he would suddenly cast all that aside and start begging US Navy Seals (of all people!) to spare him. Imagine if it actually worked and the US then released footage of him begging for his life! That kind of shame would be unthinkable to him.
 
2011-05-04 06:57:09 PM

Shrugging Atlas: The administration has all the proof he was killed that they need as a result of the raid. End of story. They didn't go through with this raid so they could proove they killed him to people on the internet.

the people who pay for all this crap including their salaries and the people for whose security this is all supposedly done.
 
2011-05-04 06:57:57 PM

Nem Wan: It's refreshingly logical to assert that the fact that no one will ever see Bin Laden alive is sufficient proof that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is free to search for him. It's actually a brilliant way to keep the birthers and other nuts busy, forever. Keep looking, guys!




Again, who's claiming that he's alive?
 
2011-05-04 07:00:24 PM

Epiphany: I believe he's dead, but the reasons you people are giving aren't proof.


I am not offering proof of any kind. I don't need more than I have been given. If Bush had given this much proof, I also would have accepted it.
 
2011-05-04 07:00:52 PM
Epiphany

the problem you've got is that there are different standards of proof. you seem to be leaning towards absolutes. so, when another farker above pointed out that no amount of proof would be enough for a die-hard conspiracy theorist you turned round and said, well, why didn't we just bomb him? the answer is that the die-hard conspiracy nuts don't matter, there will never be enough proof for them, they, and apparently you, want more than a reasonable standard of proof. you have to try to be practical. yeah, we could demand the mission footage, we could demand the dna sample was on super-live tv at all times and tested in front of us, we could make an intelligence victory an intelligence loss by our own mawkish desire to 'know' and yet know no more in fact that what we knew was true, because even then some character will show up and demonstrate how it would have been possible to fake the footage. we elect people. we can ask them what standard of proof they are using. we can ask the opposition to verify this. we can then ask ourselves to what degree the events have been proven

that is where we are at

so, with this, take your pick. it's up to you based upon what you think is reasonable.
 
2011-05-04 07:01:52 PM

jigger: Please don't lump me in with anyone else.


If you argue like them, I will lump you in with them. I don't care if you think you're different.
 
2011-05-04 07:02:11 PM

ThisNameSux: I'm kind of surprised they never thought to film a statement like this just to fark with people in the event that he was killed. Imagine the epic troll if a video came out in the next few days with Osama claiming that he was alive and well and that the USA was lying about him having been killed.


To be honest, given the situation in which he was living, I tend to believe he never thought that video would be necessary. This was not a guy who appears as if thought he'd be caught or killed in my opinion. Maybe early on, if everything we think we know about his living in and escape from Afghanistan is true. But setting up permanant digs outside the Paki capital with the wives and kids just doesn't seem like the actions of someone who feared for their life or thought they'd get busted.

I think over time the guy probably started believing a little too much of his own press and got too comfortable with the fact the Pakistanis were protecting him for years.
 
2011-05-04 07:02:38 PM
They should release the photo just because the story changed enough over the last two days enough to be....strange. firefight? to bin laden being unarmed and shot in the raid. and now its come out that he was captured, then killed? For what reason? how? where?
 
2011-05-04 07:03:42 PM

Surool: jigger: Please don't lump me in with anyone else.

If you argue like them, I will lump you in with them. I don't care if you think you're different.


And yet I don't argue like anyone else. It's simpleminded of you to thing so. So you're a fool, Surool.
 
2011-05-04 07:04:27 PM

D-Liver: Here's another thought: Obama released his birth certificate to the screams of window-licking knucke-draggers of 'OMGZ ITS A SHOP', and it didn't satisfy them.

Now he has that to use as ammo here: Even if he released the photos, they wouldn't believe it anyway.


Awesome point. I now know the reason for not releasing the pictures. I thought "what other reason than something fishy happening in the raid" but what you said makes perfect sense. Why would he release his birth certificate then? He must have been doing a dry run to see how people reacted to proof, and determined by that reaction not to release the death photos. I still disagree with it, but it stops my only inklings of conspiracy theories surrounding the incident.
 
2011-05-04 07:07:45 PM

jigger: Surool: jigger: Please don't lump me in with anyone else.

If you argue like them, I will lump you in with them. I don't care if you think you're different.

And yet I don't argue like anyone else. It's simpleminded of you to thing so. So you're a fool, Surool.


Yeah, real deep. It's all in your head however, because you have not differentiated yourself from the derp in any way, shape or form.
 
2011-05-04 07:08:11 PM

Epiphany: Isitoveryet: Epiphany: leads me to believe something farked up happened with him that we don't know about.

yes, when they stripped him of this clothing they discovered he was a transgender and you know U.S. there's no way we would let ourselves be punked by a homo non-marrying trans gender, it's unholy and unconstitutional.

Vote Republican!

I was thinking more along the lines of things that the government wouldn't want us or the terrorists to see that could be in the picture/pictures. Maybe excessive shiat, like what if the seals took turns stabbing him in the face when he was dead or shiat like that? Things Obama would not have approved but might have been done in the heat of the moment?

Questions I wouldn't even have if not for the immediate burial and refusal to release any evidence.

/I beleive we killed him
//this is still fishy


holy crap! i never even considered a SeAL getting all stabby.
 
2011-05-04 07:08:21 PM

21-7-b: a reasonable standard of proof


Evidence that it happened is a reasonable standard of proof. I don't want that evidence for me, I want it for the people who need it. People on the fence now about whether or not he's dead (IE not classic conspiracy theorists) people who were victims of 9/11 that want closure, to show the world he's dead for sure (al qaida, other countries citizens who don't trust America, again, not normal conspiracy theorists).

I believe he's dead. A picture of his dead body would convince many others that believe now he might still be alive, or that he's been dead forever and we just now pretended to kill him ourselves. It would also demoralize Al Qaida and give closure to the victims of 9/11 that want it from proof of his death and not just words.
 
2011-05-04 07:09:28 PM
jigger

if you get so pissed about being treated like a child, why do you act like one?
 
2011-05-04 07:09:31 PM

jigger: Shrugging Atlas: The administration has all the proof he was killed that they need as a result of the raid. End of story. They didn't go through with this raid so they could proove they killed him to people on the internet. the people who pay for all this crap including their salaries and the people for whose security this is all supposedly done.


Oh give me a break. You don't have a right to know the details because you pay taxes. Christ almighty.

That's actually more ridiculous than the people demanding the photos because they think this whole thing was faked.
 
2011-05-04 07:10:06 PM

Isitoveryet: Epiphany: Isitoveryet: Epiphany: leads me to believe something farked up happened with him that we don't know about.

yes, when they stripped him of this clothing they discovered he was a transgender and you know U.S. there's no way we would let ourselves be punked by a homo non-marrying trans gender, it's unholy and unconstitutional.

Vote Republican!

I was thinking more along the lines of things that the government wouldn't want us or the terrorists to see that could be in the picture/pictures. Maybe excessive shiat, like what if the seals took turns stabbing him in the face when he was dead or shiat like that? Things Obama would not have approved but might have been done in the heat of the moment?

Questions I wouldn't even have if not for the immediate burial and refusal to release any evidence.

/I beleive we killed him
//this is still fishy

holy crap! i never even considered a SeAL getting all stabby.


I think I jumped to the wrong conclusion there over how confused I was to the lack of a picture. Just like with Seals accidentally killing the British hostage, America doesn't cover shiat like that up, we accept it and reprimand those involved and move on.

This is a more logical reason not to release it:

D-Liver: Here's another thought: Obama released his birth certificate to the screams of window-licking knucke-draggers of 'OMGZ ITS A SHOP', and it didn't satisfy them.

Now he has that to use as ammo here: Even if he released the photos, they wouldn't believe it anyway.

 
2011-05-04 07:11:41 PM

Surool: jigger: Surool: jigger: Please don't lump me in with anyone else.

If you argue like them, I will lump you in with them. I don't care if you think you're different.

And yet I don't argue like anyone else. It's simpleminded of you to thing so. So you're a fool, Surool.

Yeah, real deep. It's all in your head however, because you have not differentiated yourself from the derp in any way, shape or form.



Since you can't seem to differentiate one person's arguments from another, there's no point to this conversation.
 
2011-05-04 07:12:51 PM

Shrugging Atlas: jigger: Shrugging Atlas: The administration has all the proof he was killed that they need as a result of the raid. End of story. They didn't go through with this raid so they could proove they killed him to people on the internet. the people who pay for all this crap including their salaries and the people for whose security this is all supposedly done.

Oh give me a break. You don't have a right to know the details because you pay taxes. Christ almighty.

That's actually more ridiculous than the people demanding the photos because they think this whole thing was faked.




You'll pay what you're told and get what we give you. Back to work, citizen.
 
2011-05-04 07:13:38 PM
Epiphany

i'm going to give you a choice. fess up to trolling and stop wasting everyone's time with your drivel, or i'll take your previous posts apart
 
2011-05-04 07:16:49 PM

Epiphany: I don't want that evidence for me, I want it for the people who need it.


If Osama's people all believe we killed him, who needs the proof? People who don't believe it now are just going to go on not believing it no matter what proof is offered.
 
2011-05-04 07:17:16 PM

21-7-b: Epiphany

i'm going to give you a choice. fess up to trolling and stop wasting everyone's time with your drivel, or i'll take your previous posts apart


I don't see how anything I've said can be construed as trolling. People have the right for closure through a picture confirming he's dead. Other people around the world including his own followers need to see evidence of his death to believe it. A lot of people will be swayed into thinking he's alive because of the way this has all been handled, and a lot of those people aren't "conspiracy theorists" like birthers.

Obama doesn't want to release the photo because of the reaction he got from releasing his birth certificate.

We had to go in and get him for valuable intelligence information, that's why we didn't bomb him.

There, now you don't have to go quote a lot of different posts saying the same thing.
 
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