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(MSNBC)   President Obama decides NOT to release Bin Laden photos   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 885
    More: News, President Obama, Osama bin Laden, Leon Panetta, Jay Carney, house intelligence committee, offer of proof, NBC Nightly News, covert operations  
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9094 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2011 at 3:35 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-04 08:00:44 PM  
Kirk's_Toupee

Epiphany
is a troll, you dolt
 
2011-05-04 08:00:48 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: 21-7-b: Kirk's_Toupee

you think they are lying when they say that publishing the photos would generate a backlash, particularly amongst those people already targeting us?

No, he thinks they are lying because he's a Truther.

Seriously. There was a thread yesterday when I laid out everything we know about the raid, who knows it, mentioned the guy unknowingly giving a running commentary of the event on Twitter, so on and so forth. His reply was a link to a Truther video, I think to proove that the government is capable of pulling off such a stunt.

He's like a Terminator. He can't be bargained or reasoned with.


Do you agree Bin Laden wads responsible for 9-11?
If so, then you should read up on the relationship between the entire Bin Laden family and the Bush family. The Bush family has been complicit in many atrocities the past 100 years, from Auschwitz to 9-11. They could me for slander if I was telling lies, but I am not. But I suppose reason to you is believing what the TV tells you.
 
2011-05-04 08:00:53 PM  

Hank_Hill: Fact: Obama doesn't have to prove shiat to you. Period.


It's true. The people have no power.
 
2011-05-04 08:01:16 PM  

Kirk's_Toupee: So labeling me a truther invalidates facts. Got it. Just because you are too oblivious of your confirmation biases doesn't mean that I am. Stop believing in the official story and think about it, especially as you get felt up by random "authorized" strangers.


Damnit, couldn't you have replied to that earlier? I just had to go back and check to see if I was right all on my own.

And now here you are, asking me to think about 9-11 while I get felt up by random strangers. Is this a Stanley Kubrick movie?
 
2011-05-04 08:01:21 PM  

Hank_Hill: Fact: Obama doesn't have to prove shiat to you. Period.



So he's a dictator then, and you're happy with that.

Cool.
 
2011-05-04 08:02:32 PM  

jigger: Hank_Hill: Fact: Obama doesn't have to prove shiat to you. Period.

It's true. The people I have no power.

 
2011-05-04 08:03:19 PM  

Kirk's_Toupee: For the record, aren't you the one that linked the Truther video yesterday? I just want to be sure and get that out there before people take you too seriously. My apologies if I'm wrong.

So labeling me a truther invalidates facts. Got it.



That's the way THESE PEOPLE work.

Why argue facts when you can argue emotional scatology?
 
2011-05-04 08:03:32 PM  
So we believe him just because he says so?,, Nope
 
2011-05-04 08:03:32 PM  

Farker T: So he's a dictator then, and you're happy with that.

Cool.


And you worship bin Laden. Funny, that.
 
2011-05-04 08:04:06 PM  
This is America: blood-thirsty, gun-blazing, baby-murdering morons.

Kudos to Obama, one of the last Americans with class.
 
2011-05-04 08:04:59 PM  

dameron: I love it. The premise is that the president walked down that red carpet on Sunday night and lied to the world about killing Osama bin Laden.

There are some profoundly stupid people around here.


Well it was the only way he could think of to pre-empt the Donald. ;)
 
2011-05-04 08:05:31 PM  

Squawker: So we believe him just because he says so?,, Nope


You said the same thing about Bush and Iraq, yes?

I don't have to wait for your answer. Liar.
 
2011-05-04 08:07:05 PM  
It is in vogue to question religion but idiotic to question Military, govt, politicians, corporations, and scientists.
Most people have not come to the conclusion that human ego is the greatest influence.
 
2011-05-04 08:07:07 PM  
www.thenoseonyourface.com


The only thing you need to know about Defenders of the Faith.

True believers all.
 
2011-05-04 08:08:38 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Kirk's_Toupee: So labeling me a truther invalidates facts. Got it. Just because you are too oblivious of your confirmation biases doesn't mean that I am. Stop believing in the official story and think about it, especially as you get felt up by random "authorized" strangers.

Damnit, couldn't you have replied to that earlier? I just had to go back and check to see if I was right all on my own.

And now here you are, asking me to think about 9-11 while I get felt up by random strangers. Is this a Stanley Kubrick movie?


You secretly enjoy it don't you?:)
 
2011-05-04 08:09:06 PM  

Hank_Hill: Farker T: So he's a dictator then, and you're happy with that.

Cool.

And you worship bin Laden. Funny, that.



Did I misread you with the 'dictator' comment?

Sorry, I should have said Obama is your messiah.
 
2011-05-04 08:09:37 PM  

apoptotic: Epiphany: Using the term "birthers" to represent the people who "won't believe this" shows your severe lack of insight into how the world perceives the USA. Pretending that releasing this is like releasing the birth certificate is straight up retarded.

Also, it's not just "extreme fundie clerics" who want to see proof he was handled in a proper way, it's also the average Muslim.

Link (new window)


I was going to point out that I didn't use "birthers" to represent the people who wouldn't believe in the veracity of any released photos, I used "birthers" as an example (my exact word) of the mindset of those who will believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence, but after you called me retarded and then proceeded to link to an article whose writer cited as his sources representatives of Middle Eastern news organizations, who I'm sure have no vested interest whatsoever in advocating a position that would result in increased viewership, I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

*exhale*


You know an example is a representation of something right? Heh.
 
2011-05-04 08:09:58 PM  

jigger: Presidents never lie.


Farker T: You believe everything your government tells you on blind faith?


www.saintgasoline.com

Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.
 
2011-05-04 08:11:06 PM  
We shouldn't allow our national discourse to wallow at the level of the ignorant, petty and/or politically-motivated mouth-breathers anyway. Let alone risking international backlash to do it.
 
2011-05-04 08:11:45 PM  

Litterbox: nekom: Only thing is "Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet,"

Uh hey cheif, they have.

Yeah and as I recall it inflamed the shiat out of us. And we are rational...can you imagine what this would do to the Radical Islamists? Hell a cartoon sent them over the edge a while back.


so does everything else. if they are already cranked to eleventy there isn't much higher they can go. besides the public deserves the same truth we got when kennedy's death photos were released.
 
2011-05-04 08:11:59 PM  

jigger: mrshowrules: jigger: 1. He was killed well before and the body either destroyed or kept on ice.

Concerned that Obama is playing politics

2. He died while still in hiding and his body will never be found.

Concerned that Obama has created a conspiracy just to make himself look good and make Bush look bad

3. He was captured alive.

Concern for Osama and the rule of International law

You sound very concerned and crazy.



You seem to think I care about Obama for some reason, or that I think he's some kind of conspiracy mastermind. If he was put on ice years ago it would have been done under Bush.

They are both bad, vote Republican

Besides I was just pointing out the fact that the true believers, who seem to believe anything the government tells them, were claiming that anyone who wasn't buying the government's story about the raid automatically assumes that bin Laden is still alive. There are other possible scenarios.

Conspiracy scenarios per chance.

And let me be clear. I'm on the internet, fark no less, talking about the ways that government types could be lying. It's not out of rage, paranoia, or even concern. Honestly I don't give a shiat. I'm sitting at my computer wasting time.

So keep it up. Keep defending the government. They're on your side, after all.

The extent of faith you have in believing something is fishy is much more impressive than my basic common sense that they found OBL and killed him


Unusual and extraordinarily claims require extraordinary and unusual evidence.

There is nothing unusual or extraordinary in the killing of OBL. I guess if you considered Bush a mastermind and Obama an idiot and a terrorist sympathizer, you might consider it extraordinary, otherwise.

I am a cynic (didn't buy the female human shield stuff for instance). A cynic accepts the most obvious and logical explanation. You think you are a cynic but in fact you are the complete opposite. You are the true believer who, through blind faith, thinks the Obama political machine is capable of enormously complex conspiracies.
 
2011-05-04 08:12:53 PM  

Hank_Hill: Squawker: So we believe him just because he says so?,, Nope

You said the same thing about Bush and Iraq, yes?

I don't have to wait for your answer. Liar.



This partisan idiocy cracks me up.

Bush lied. People died. Obama is lying, they're still dying.

Are you so emotionally invested in this 'savior' that you can't see that?

You're in for a disappointment. Happy landings.
 
2011-05-04 08:15:45 PM  

dameron: jigger: Presidents never lie.

Farker T: You believe everything your government tells you on blind faith?



Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.



So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?
 
2011-05-04 08:19:26 PM  
Kirk's_Toupee

here's the thing about conspiracy nuts (thanks Shrugging Atlas) - you sometimes sound reasonable. sometimes you pick up on something which a reasonable person could possibly agree with. the trouble is you always seem to find a way to get to lizard people or something like that. someone asked me the other day whether i thought some conspiracy theory was worthy of any credence, and on its face it did look somewhat plausible, but then i find out what else the guy propagating it believes and i think 'oh.'

so here's the thing, man. let's say bin laden was in cahoots with bush, the whole thing was a set-up, bla, bla, bla. so what? you'll never know, this isn't the event or the movies or something. you see, what those things have, and what you don't, is something to go on - a start. you don't. you have what everybody else - who has the same access to information as you - considers a dead-end

/don't bother telling me to read up on bush. i've read what i need to know (ie stuff written by people who know what they are talking about).
 
2011-05-04 08:20:13 PM  
mrshowrules:They are both bad, vote Republican


Come on, man. You think I vote?


Besides I was just pointing out the fact that the true believers, who seem to believe anything the government tells them, were claiming that anyone who wasn't buying the government's story about the raid automatically assumes that bin Laden is still alive. There are other possible scenarios.

Conspiracy scenarios per chance.



Saying that the Pakistani government was in cahoots with bin Laden is a conspiracy theory.



I am a cynic (didn't buy the female human shield stuff for instance).


Why not?
 
2011-05-04 08:22:20 PM  

Farker T: So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?


You're one of those profoundly stupid people I was talking about earlier, aren't you?

Why yes, yes you are. Maybe someone who can't recognize you for what you are will play with you. Good luck with that.
 
2011-05-04 08:25:25 PM  

Farker T: dameron: jigger: Presidents never lie.

Farker T: You believe everything your government tells you on blind faith?



Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.


So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?


"Everyone" thought that, though.

They even had fake pictures and forged documents to prove it.
 
2011-05-04 08:27:21 PM  
I want to see those pictures, damnit. I know it's petty and we should be above this sorta thing, and while I certainly don't condone book burnings and other acts done specifically to elicit an angry response, I believe we deserve to see this bastard's eyes blown out. It will be horrible and gruesome but I think we all need to see it before we can move on and feel better.

That image deserves to be on the Internet forever. We've wasted so much time, money, emotion, and human life tracking this bastard down, we deserve the right to photoshop pictures of his bloody corpse saying "I CAN HAZ VIRGINS NOW PLEAS?"

I try my best not to hate people, but in the end I'm just a human being. I can't help it. I absolutely hated that man and everything he represented. I'd be a liar if I said his death didn't make me happy.
 
2011-05-04 08:27:48 PM  
Farker T

So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?

from memory, i would wager that dameron did more than you to debunk that elevation of political economy with the truth to a new level. you were too busy chasing shadows, i would imagine
 
2011-05-04 08:33:41 PM  

dameron: Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.


No no no, The military Industrial Complex, which includes the Bush family, Bin laden family, and dick cheney perpetrated the biggest hoax ever! Obama is just tying up loose ends in a manner that will guarantee his reelection, thus, keeping the MIC* in power.

* can be replaced with Illuminati, Catholic Church, NWO, Bush family evil Empire, Barry Sotoreo, Rupert Murdoch, etc.
 
2011-05-04 08:34:57 PM  

dameron: Farker T: So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?

You're one of those profoundly stupid people I was talking about earlier, aren't you?

Why yes, yes you are. Maybe someone who can't recognize you for what you are will play with you. Good luck with that.



Are you talking about this?:


dameron: I love it. The premise is that the president walked down that red carpet on Sunday night and lied to the world about killing Osama bin Laden.

There are some profoundly stupid people around here.



So you think Bush lied, but Obama would never?
Or is it that Republicans lie, but Democrats would never?

Either way, enjoy your gullible naiveté.


/And I''m bet you make fun of religious people for THEIR blind faith
 
2011-05-04 08:35:54 PM  

jigger: Saying that the Pakistani government was in cahoots with bin Laden is a conspiracy theory.


a true one (new window)
 
2011-05-04 08:40:23 PM  
look, if the government tells me the sky is blue and i look out the window and the sky is blue i think "they were right." if the government tells me the sky is pink and i look out the window and the sky is blue i think "yeah, about that."

in this instance the government is saying the sky is blue i look out the window and the sky is blue but there's a couple of clouds which make me think "well, you're nearly right, you're telling me what i need to know."

the problem is that the conspiracy theorist filter turns blue to pink
 
2011-05-04 08:43:13 PM  

21-7-b: so here's the thing, man. let's say bin laden was in cahoots with bush, the whole thing was a set-up, bla, bla, bla. so what? you'll never know, this isn't the event or the movies or something. you see, what those things have, and what you don't, is something to go on - a start. you don't. you have what everybody else - who has the same access to information as you - considers a dead-end

/don't bother telling me to read up on bush. i've read what i need to know (ie stuff written by people who know what they are talking about).


"what you need to " = confirmation bias.
The devil is in the details. And smart people know this.
We are all subject to arrogance, it is part of our will to live. But we must recognize that we limit ourselves. Remove your expectations.

Group think mentality has been mastered by intelligence communities. If you doubt that, then you need to read up on your history and psychology

Know the difference between yourself and the group you identify yourself with, many do not.
 
2011-05-04 08:45:31 PM  

jigger: Farker T: dameron: jigger: Presidents never lie.

Farker T: You believe everything your government tells you on blind faith?



Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.


So, were you a sucker for the "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9-11" ploy as well, or do you only swallow the Leftist drool?

"Everyone" thought that, though.

They even had fake pictures and forged documents to prove it.



We were intentionally fed false information by a third-party country for the express purpose of justifying our attack. But the false intel was intended to fool THE PUBLIC. Bush didn't believe it, Blair didn't believe it, and Colin Powell was so disgusted with the whole affair that he resigned.

I didn't believe it either, because I had been keeping an eye on the international political intrigue that led up to that farce for years.

What stuns me is how quickly people want to forget. Put another figurehead in the Oval Office and suddenly they're willing to believe ANYTHING.

Suckers.

When they do find that they've been fooled AGAIN, they'll get all huffy for a moment or two, vote, and go back to playing the fool.

thebsreport.files.wordpress.com

It is said that a people gets the government it deserves.

Is that true?
 
2011-05-04 08:45:55 PM  
Kirk's_Toupee

right, there is no evidence that the pakistani government, the pakistani isi, or the pakistani people as a whole were in cahoots with bin laden. nevertheless, there is evidence that he had many sympathizers, many of whom were in cahoots with him - for both ideological and practical reasons.

so. that's our starting point. the evidence. and that's where you start heading towards lizard people whilst reasonable people don't.
 
2011-05-04 08:47:11 PM  

dameron: Yes, Obama, al Qaeda, the Pakistani government, Osama's family, the CIA, and the DoD are all in collusion because Obama orchestrated the hoax of the century and it all hinges on photographic evidence that Obama, himself, had the soldiers collect.

Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.


Or, he has been dead for years and a handful of people collude to lie if they know what is good for them and their families.
Or they collude because they trust their superiors like people trust the TV.

Who cares about Bin Laden, Kill the Patriot Act.
 
2011-05-04 08:49:40 PM  

21-7-b: look, if the government tells me the sky is blue and i look out the window and the sky is blue i think "they were right." if the government tells me the sky is pink and i look out the window and the sky is blue i think "yeah, about that."

in this instance the government is saying the sky is blue i look out the window and the sky is blue but there's a couple of clouds which make me think "well, you're nearly right, you're telling me what i need to know."



Funny, I haven't seen them produce evidence of squat. Did I miss something - I mean aside from their self-referential bullshiat?


the problem is that the conspiracy theorist filter turns blue to pink


So you don't believe in conspiracies?
 
2011-05-04 08:51:59 PM  

Jynxed: apoptotic: Epiphany: Using the term "birthers" to represent the people who "won't believe this" shows your severe lack of insight into how the world perceives the USA. Pretending that releasing this is like releasing the birth certificate is straight up retarded.

Also, it's not just "extreme fundie clerics" who want to see proof he was handled in a proper way, it's also the average Muslim.

Link (new window)


I was going to point out that I didn't use "birthers" to represent the people who wouldn't believe in the veracity of any released photos, I used "birthers" as an example (my exact word) of the mindset of those who will believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence, but after you called me retarded and then proceeded to link to an article whose writer cited as his sources representatives of Middle Eastern news organizations, who I'm sure have no vested interest whatsoever in advocating a position that would result in increased viewership, I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

*exhale*

You know an example is a representation of something right? Heh.


You know different groups of people can exhibit the same type of mindset (def'n: mental inclination, tendency or habit) with regards to entirely different issues, right? The same cause can lead to multiple unrelated effects.
 
2011-05-04 08:52:49 PM  
i.telegraph.co.uk
Will have the photo within 6 months

/probably sooner
//if he doesn't meet Osama's fate too
 
2011-05-04 08:55:40 PM  
Kirk's_Toupee

what i need to know

yup. you've read the words "confirmation bias," well done. i believe in accountability and transparency as the key to better government. i couldn't give a fark if we are being run by lizard people. i want better government, so what i need to know in order to further that goal is based upon what i can actually use to further that goal. the rantings of random people require too much filtering to be of direct practical use to me, given the time that i have available. if you have the time to filter them, go ahead, but at the moment you don't seem to be doing any filtering
 
2011-05-04 08:56:01 PM  
You know different groups of people can exhibit the same type of mindset (def'n: mental inclination, tendency or habit) with regards to entirely different issues, right? The same cause can lead to multiple otherwise unrelated effects.

FTFM
 
2011-05-04 08:56:55 PM  

jigger: Saying that the Pakistani government was in cahoots with bin Laden is a conspiracy theory.


Actually, that is the exact definition of a conspiracy theory. Two parties colluding secretly. It could be true also. However, it is not the most reasonable explanation.

1) the Pakistani Government was incompetent to have not have known about his presence. OBL hid from one of the best intelligence system in the world for 9 years. Isn't it possible he could have hid from a third rate Pakistani system for 5 years even if it was in their backyard.

2) elements of the Pakistani Government were paid off, threatened or supportive of OBL and hid information

3) Having OBL around secured funding for Pakistani so it was not in their best interests to actually find him even though they were not in league with him

These are just theories (charges). You have to prove these things with evidence.

Photos of a dead Bin Laden aren't going to clarify this. None of the 1, 2 & 3 theories you offered above would support that anyways. I suggest you leave the brain storming it to professionals.


I thought the human shield thing sounded fishy. The narrative seemed too convenient and non-verifiable anyways. I posted this to Fark. Turns out I was right. The current narrative of the shooting still doesn't jive with me but I don't doubt he was indeed shot by an American soldier and his body was dumped at sea. Not because I have proof but because the more involved the narrative (people involved, operational size) the harder it is too fake and the greater the likelihood that additional discrepancies would arise and the story would fall apart.

I don't trust Obama to tell the truth. I trust that he won't say something which could easily be proven to be a lie.
 
2011-05-04 08:58:24 PM  

dameron: Or they shot him and dumped him in the ocean.


You know what I like about that synopsis?

What a 'fark you' it is to bin Laden and everything he's stood for. Over a decade of hearing about him and Al Qaeda, the Cole attack, the embassy bombings, 9/11, and so on. The biggest boogeyman since who knows what. And in the end?

They shot him and dumped him in the ocean.

Sure, he made a dent in America's economy, and certainly impacted the national psyche in a way that may take years to normalize. Who knows how things would have gone over the years if he hadn't attacked us. Probably better. But life goes on, and things will likely improve. But decades from now, when this thing has been gone over again and again? Bin Laden's entry in the history book will conclude with "They shot him and dumped him in the ocean."

Beautiful.
 
2011-05-04 08:59:40 PM  
Farker T

the government has produced a strong reason not to publish the photographs. that is what you are too blinded to get your head around

no i don't believe in conspiracies, i've tried to find the word in the dictionary but it's been left blank.

you're pretty close to getting treated as a troll. carry on.
 
2011-05-04 09:03:10 PM  

mrshowrules: Not because I have proof but because the more involved the narrative (people involved, operational size) the harder it is too fake and the greater the likelihood that additional discrepancies would arise and the story would fall apart.


How many people were involved in the Gulf of Tonkin Incident? (which didn't happen the way the official story had it)

How many people were involved in the Manhattan Project?
 
2011-05-04 09:04:07 PM  

Kirk's_Toupee: He has been dead for almost a decade.


Well, I'll need some proof of that.
 
2011-05-04 09:05:05 PM  

21-7-b: the government has produced a strong reason not to publish the photographs.


i.imgur.com
 
2011-05-04 09:05:35 PM  
I'm glad we're taking the high road. It would be a shame if we assassinated an unarmed man, dumped his body in the ocean AND released photos of his corpse. Just too much.

Would we have believed this whole story out of the Bush administration? I know they were proven liars, but Obama hasn't proven to be very honest either. The whole thing is just way too fishy. I'm not a so called deather, but I'm thinking there is a lot more to the story than we're being told. And the most inconsequential difference between the truth and the official story will damage Obama much more than the story we're told has helped him. I just don't see the political calculus here.
 
2011-05-04 09:09:55 PM  

MickeyRaptor:
//if he doesn't meet Osama's fate too


One can only hope.
 
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