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(MSNBC)   President Obama decides NOT to release Bin Laden photos   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 885
    More: News, President Obama, Osama bin Laden, Leon Panetta, Jay Carney, house intelligence committee, offer of proof, NBC Nightly News, covert operations  
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9091 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2011 at 3:35 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-04 05:00:37 PM
BudTheSpud: Try asking nicely, asshole.

you forgot to say, "Please."
 
2011-05-04 05:01:18 PM

plewis: For me, yeah, Obama saying he's dead is good enough. But there are people who don't trust Obama who will trust their other elected federal representatives. I don't think that it's unreasonable for elected representatives of the people to the federal government can look at, but not get copies of, the pictures and provide a reporting to their constituents. It may be stupid and unnecessary, but if it shuts up the mouth breathers, I'm all for it.


Then you and I both know this won't shut the mouth breathers up. Especially after seeing the doctored photos already being circulated. The DNA evidence is what you really want them to see.
 
2011-05-04 05:01:51 PM
Whar snuff pr0n whar?
 
2011-05-04 05:02:38 PM
 
2011-05-04 05:03:04 PM

Epiphany: Why should we not release the photos is the better question to ask you then? What do we gain by not releasing them?


I believe your question is your answer, sir.
 
2011-05-04 05:05:27 PM

maskedloser: Kazrath: I just lost a ton of respect for Obama. This is honestly enough to make me not vote for him again. The whole thing reeks and he is not doing anything to provide any kind of viable proof about the demise of a leader who headed an incident that has completely steered our whole country for the last 10 years. This is completely unacceptable.

Oh yeah, because providing every piece of proof being demanded by shrill conspiracy theorists has worked so well for him in the past.

It's one thing to engage in a necessary military operation overseas. It's another to deliberately inflame civilians and otherwise neutral parties in that part of the world through grotesque and unnecessary exhibitionism, just so those same conspiracy theorists - y'know, the ones who are never happy no matter how much people cave to their tantrum-throwing - can look at the images with a magnifying glass in hope of finding some pixel out of place.

You'll get over it - or not.


There is no evidence that the US killed Bin Laden on Sunday. There is lip service but no evidence.

as you wanna be scientists say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You act like blind theists.
 
2011-05-04 05:05:45 PM

Big Al: Who cares about some graphic picture? How about just releasing the DNA tests?


Because that's science and who believes in that stuff? I don't even understand that crap, it's like so small we can't even see it. A pic of a guy with a hole blown in his head--that's change I can believe in.
 
2011-05-04 05:06:21 PM

Big Al: Remember when the they released the photo of a dead Kenny Boy Lay and people still didn't believe it? (including me)


Yeah, but you're a truther so your opinion doesn't matter.
 
2011-05-04 05:07:36 PM
Republicans are such pu$$ies they elected a guy for President who never would have gone into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden in the first place. Now we're supposed to care about what they want to do with the photos we would never had of a guy we would have never been killed if they had been elected?
 
2011-05-04 05:07:44 PM

Epiphany: plewis: Epiphany:
plewis: Save your paper. Unless you are a family member, you don't need to know and it's not your right to know what the government has about someone else. You will be denied.

That's not how the FOIA works.

It's EXACTLY how FOIA works. You have to have a reason to request classified information beyond mere curiosity and "I just want to know he's dead" is not a good enough reason. If this were anyone else, you might have a case because it's a government record, but not him and not now.

That is EXACTLY how it doesn't work. The government has to have a reasonable reason to NOT release the evidence to deny the request. In this case, they can say any number of things, but the picture will come to light in time through the FOIA if it doesn't come to light before then.


You are right and they will deny every request based upon national security concerns. They have publicly stated that they have that reasonable reason, that this will be harmful to our boys in the field. There are no relevant concerns that trump that. It will never be released as part of a FOIA. Give up. You are wrong and I'm not arguing with you anymore.
 
2011-05-04 05:08:35 PM
The Guardian has photos:

www.guardian.co.uk
 
2011-05-04 05:08:50 PM
Conspiracy theorists are irrelevant.

Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?
 
2011-05-04 05:09:55 PM
kiapolo:
Liveleak

first photo, is that a nerf gun behind (what's left of) his head?
 
2011-05-04 05:10:30 PM

The Decider: Anyone seen the pictures Reuter's just released?



I've never seen a tail rotor like that on anything we have, especially a blackhawk. What that hell were these guys flying around in?

//can't get a better picture, the site is getting hammered.



My first guess on sunday was an MV-22, but that was wrong. They probably didn't use those for the same reason it was not some super secret prototype.
Reliability.

They had to get to the target and get out, they couldn't afford some unknown mechanical hiccup. That they had one suggests this was a tricky enough mission without tossing in a stealth helicopter.

So far as we know it was just a modified Blackhawk.
How modified?
No way we'll know till they've had their fun with it.
 
2011-05-04 05:10:31 PM
I predict lots of derp before the end of this thread.
 
2011-05-04 05:11:25 PM

JungleBoogie: The Guardian has photos:

www.guardian.co.uk

Pictures allegedly showing the results of US special forces' assault on Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad. Reuters, who released all but the first picture shown here, have said: 'The photos [were] taken by a Pakistani security official who entered the compound after the early morning raid on Monday. The official, who wished to remain anonymous, sold the pictures. Reuters is confident in their authenticity'.


So long as everyone is clear on where they came from, this seems the perfect solution. Blame the Pakistani for taking the pictures. Blame him for selling them. Blame the UK for publishing them. And blame Obama because that's the cool thing to do these days.
 
2011-05-04 05:11:28 PM
tallguywithglasseson: Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?

my own morbid satisfaction
 
2011-05-04 05:12:06 PM

ultraholland: tallguywithglasseson: Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?

my own morbid satisfaction


Add me to that list.

/now the argument is twice as strong!
 
2011-05-04 05:12:13 PM

plewis: Epiphany: plewis: Epiphany:
plewis: Save your paper. Unless you are a family member, you don't need to know and it's not your right to know what the government has about someone else. You will be denied.

That's not how the FOIA works.

It's EXACTLY how FOIA works. You have to have a reason to request classified information beyond mere curiosity and "I just want to know he's dead" is not a good enough reason. If this were anyone else, you might have a case because it's a government record, but not him and not now.

That is EXACTLY how it doesn't work. The government has to have a reasonable reason to NOT release the evidence to deny the request. In this case, they can say any number of things, but the picture will come to light in time through the FOIA if it doesn't come to light before then.

You are right and they will deny every request based upon national security concerns. They have publicly stated that they have that reasonable reason, that this will be harmful to our boys in the field. There are no relevant concerns that trump that. It will never be released as part of a FOIA. Give up. You are wrong and I'm not arguing with you anymore.


LMAO, yeah, it's like arguing with a child here. To pretend that this picture will be a national security concern for the entire span of US history from here on out is straight up retarded. I give it 20-30 years if needed to get through FOIA or less than a year when it "leaks".
 
2011-05-04 05:12:25 PM
The heck with the photos - I want to see the video and audio that they were following in the "Situation Room". You just know that every member of that team had a video camera strapped to their heads...
 
2011-05-04 05:12:26 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?


The only argument I've heard that isn't blindly partisan (I have to be against everything Obama) or just the need to satiate pure unadulterated bloodlust for the grotesque minded, is that releasing gory photos might serve as a deterrent for future Bin Ladens.

How verifying Osama's death by photo is supposed to scare would-be suicide bombers is beyond me.
 
2011-05-04 05:12:32 PM

Isitoveryet: kiapolo:
Liveleak

first photo, is that a nerf gun behind (what's left of) his head?


Aha, it certainly looks like a water pistol. Can you imagine? Hahaha.
 
2011-05-04 05:12:51 PM

I am Ahab: Newest supposed OBL death pic via LiveLeak: Link (new window)

/Thoughts?
//Pixels?


Whoever that guy is, he's got an extra ear up in his hairline. Or a vagina. I heard he was "shot over the left eye," so the pic is at least pretty close there.

Kinda looks like OBL, too.
 
2011-05-04 05:12:58 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Conspiracy theorists are irrelevant.

Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?


Because a lot of people aren't going to take the USA at their word. You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to want proof.
 
2011-05-04 05:13:13 PM

Kazrath: I just lost a ton of respect for Obama. This is honestly enough to make me not vote for him again.


And the thing is, you sound totally authentic.
 
2011-05-04 05:13:22 PM

Isitoveryet: Kazrath: I just lost a ton of respect for Obama. This is honestly enough to make me not vote for him again. The whole thing reeks and he is not doing anything to provide any kind of viable proof about the demise of a leader who headed an incident that has completely steered our whole country for the last 10 years. This is completely unacceptable.

you like looking at pics of dead people?
do you also demand photos of all service men and women who were KIA?
there has to be something else driving you to WANT to see, FAP?

Im just asking questions here.


Personally, I would prefer seeing the video of them actually killing him.

Osama could be dead
Osama could be alive and is just being held for information.

I am completely sure he is not ever going to pop back up because that would be the most epic fark'up in the history of any nation if this whole thing turned out to be a complete lie.

My point still stands: Osama is the catalyst that got us into 2 wars, drained our economy, killed our soldiers, and restricted our freedoms dramatically. You are god damn right I want 100% proof that this guy is gone.
 
2011-05-04 05:13:54 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Said Obama: "The risks of release outweigh the benefits. Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East."

He added: "Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaida killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet. Osama bin Laden is not a trophy -- he is dead and let's now focus on continuing the fight until Al Qaida has been eliminated."


It's hard to argue with that logic. The conspiracy nuts won't believe it in any event. Thay will just blabber on about pixels etc. There's no reason for a great country to stoop to the level of terrorists and thugs.
 
2011-05-04 05:13:54 PM
I'll bet there is an object or pictures in the background that prove the existence of of space aliens.
 
2011-05-04 05:14:42 PM
the reason the photos don't matter wrt the truth is because if all of this, the compound, the operation, the bipartisan acknowledgement of the evidence, if all of that was faked, then how the living fark do you get the idea they couldn't fake up a body of bin laden?

that is the point
 
2011-05-04 05:15:30 PM

Kazrath: You are god damn right I want 100% proof that this guy is gone.


May you should be a bit more upset at the people who did actual limiting of freedoms than worried about what proof you get offered that Osama is dead.
 
2011-05-04 05:15:45 PM

Epiphany: To say that Saddam's sons were the faces of fear for Iraqis while ignoring that they were also revered and followed by plenty of Iraqis is nonsense. To pretend Bin Ladens face wasn't a face of fear to many Muslims and revered to many in the same way is nonsense as well.


I disagree that it was the same. Iraq was contained and the murder very internal. I don't know that it was a good idea to release their pics either. I think Bin Laden is feared by the West, and either revered or ignored by everyone else. I don't see the real importance here of releasing it. I personally want to see it because I am a sick bastard, but I think proof of death is the fact that this shiat is plastered from here to the South Pole and Osama hasn't come out and done a "LOL WUT" yet. Any video released post-mortem will fail to mention anything about the relevant news story here.

So this would be a pretty easy thing to prove wrong if this were wrong. AQ will strike again, I am sure, but it's widely believed that OBL wasn't that key in AQ operations apart from being a figurehead in the past few years.

The thing that I have said most in the last 3 days is "great, he's dead. Nothing changes, back to life and death."

People will die by AQ with or without his pic.
 
2011-05-04 05:15:57 PM

JonnyG: irst photo, is that a nerf gun behind (what's left of) his head?
Aha, it certainly looks like a water pistol. Can you imagine? Hahaha.


So he was armed. You can hardly our guys for blowing him away, instead of trying to take a crazed maniac like that.
 
2011-05-04 05:16:01 PM

Kirk's_Toupee: maskedloser: Kazrath: I just lost a ton of respect for Obama. This is honestly enough to make me not vote for him again. The whole thing reeks and he is not doing anything to provide any kind of viable proof about the demise of a leader who headed an incident that has completely steered our whole country for the last 10 years. This is completely unacceptable.

Oh yeah, because providing every piece of proof being demanded by shrill conspiracy theorists has worked so well for him in the past.

It's one thing to engage in a necessary military operation overseas. It's another to deliberately inflame civilians and otherwise neutral parties in that part of the world through grotesque and unnecessary exhibitionism, just so those same conspiracy theorists - y'know, the ones who are never happy no matter how much people cave to their tantrum-throwing - can look at the images with a magnifying glass in hope of finding some pixel out of place.

You'll get over it - or not.

There is no evidence that the US killed Bin Laden on Sunday. There is lip service but no evidence.

as you wanna be scientists say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You act like blind theists.


There is absolutely nothing extraordinary about this claim at all. The fact that it took this long to find him is farking extraordinary.

The fact they were able to kill after finding this out is about as straight forward as you can get.
 
2011-05-04 05:16:35 PM
Pro/con for releasing the photos:

Benefits:
1) Satisfy curiosity.

Costs:
1) If the SHTF after the photos are released, Obama will get blamed.
2) Plus, the conspiracy theorists will not be convinced, as photos can be extremely well photoshopped, especially if you have the might of the NSA/CIA doing it.

Doesn't make sense to officially release the photos or videos.
 
2011-05-04 05:16:42 PM

Kirk's_Toupee: There is no evidence that the US killed Bin Laden on Sunday. There is lip service but no evidence.

as you wanna be scientists say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You act like blind theists.


For the record, aren't you the one that linked the Truther video yesterday? I just want to be sure and get that out there before people take you too seriously. My apologies if I'm wrong.
 
2011-05-04 05:16:44 PM

lennavan: plewis: For me, yeah, Obama saying he's dead is good enough. But there are people who don't trust Obama who will trust their other elected federal representatives. I don't think that it's unreasonable for elected representatives of the people to the federal government can look at, but not get copies of, the pictures and provide a reporting to their constituents. It may be stupid and unnecessary, but if it shuts up the mouth breathers, I'm all for it.

Then you and I both know this won't shut the mouth breathers up. Especially after seeing the doctored photos already being circulated. The DNA evidence is what you really want them to see.


Yeah, but at least they will have to counter "Their own people" and not just the "Kenyan in Chief." I mean, states rights, right?

This is the official channel for this kind of thing. If members of the public still want to say that all of their representatives are willful liars, they are operating outside of what is expected in a lawful society. In short, they would be nutters who wouldn't trust anyone who wasn't telling them what they want to hear.

And those people will NEVER be satisfied, so you reach as many rational people as you can and move on.

That said, I'm out of tinfoil and will move on. I think Obama is doing the right thing by not releasing snuff pr0n with a government seal on it.

Peace.
 
2011-05-04 05:18:02 PM

markb289: There's no reason for a great country to stoop to the level of terrorists and thugs.


What's more, there's no need to devote any more energy to Osama. He's done with, history, and now we can deal with other issues.
 
2011-05-04 05:19:04 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: I think Bin Laden is feared by the West, and either revered or ignored by everyone else


I see, you have no grasp on how the world works, even when it comes to one man and his influence.
 
2011-05-04 05:19:50 PM
davidphogan Quote 2011-05-04 05:06:21 PM

Yeah, but you're a truther so your opinion doesn't matter.


The truth shall set you free
 
2011-05-04 05:20:22 PM
SHOW US THE PHOTO, OR YOU AINT GONNA GET NO VOTO
SHOW US THE PHOTO, OR YOU AINT GONNA GET NO VOTO
SHOW US THE PHOTO, OR YOU AINT GONNA GET NO VOTO
SHOW US THE PHOTO, OR YOU AINT GONNA GET NO VOTO
SHOW US THE PHOTO, OR YOU AINT GONNA GET NO VOTO
 
2011-05-04 05:20:36 PM
A non-public release from the US does not mean that he/they won't release the photos to foreign governments.

Really though, maybe it would be best if we show a little class and refrain from activities similar to those performed by other countries post Black Hawk.
 
2011-05-04 05:21:12 PM
Down
 
2011-05-04 05:21:28 PM

ThisNameSux: You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to want proof.


His blood is all over the house along with his dead son and bodyguards.

His daughter told Pakistani police she saw her father shot.

Al Queda acknowledged he's dead.

You have to be a conspiracy nut to believe anything other than a SEAL team killed him in Abbottabad, Pakistan on 5/2/11.

The question then becomes, if you believe he's dead, what kind of proof are you asking for, and why? Are you trying to satisfy yourself or someone else? Who are the "a lot of people" not "taking the USA at its word", and why would a photograph satisfy them?
 
2011-05-04 05:21:39 PM

The Decider: rotor


I've been wondering that myself. I can't ID it. It could be an updated tail design.

But a guy I know who I take very seriously who is over in Afghanistan who works in intelligence/drones told me that we will be learning a lot in the next couple of months that isn't being released quite yet.
 
2011-05-04 05:22:03 PM

Kirk's_Toupee: maskedloser:

There is no evidence that the US killed Bin Laden on Sunday. There is lip service but no evidence.

as you wanna be scientists say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You act like blind theists.

You and your ideological butt-buddies act like idiots - but, alas, I don't think it's merely an act.

 
2011-05-04 05:22:30 PM

ultraholland: my own morbid satisfaction


Yeah mine too, but I'm not sure that's really a good reason.
 
2011-05-04 05:22:32 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2011-05-04 05:22:39 PM

Kazrath: You are god damn right I want 100% proof that this guy is gone.


i understand your request for proof but can't you understand Obamas decision not to release the photos? I thought he explained his reasons quite well.
 
2011-05-04 05:23:20 PM

ultraholland: tallguywithglasseson: Anyone have a good argument as to why the photos should have been released?

my own morbid satisfaction


That's certainly the only honest argument for releasing the pix.
 
2011-05-04 05:23:24 PM

Big Al: Who cares about some graphic picture? How about just releasing the DNA tests?


Here you go:
www.dnassequencing.com
Convinced?
 
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