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(Talking Points Memo)   Tip for Texas teacher: don't tell a Muslim ninth grader she's probably "grieving" about the death of her "uncle" Osama   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 216
    More: Fail, Osama, Texas High School, muslims, graders, Texas, uncles, 9th grade, teachers  
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15897 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2011 at 4:03 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-05-04 05:31:15 PM

Thorak: buckler: Which is exactly why he said "unless it's DIRECTLY RELATED to the lesson". Of course children should be schooled in politics; it's an essential part of U.S. Civics. What the teacher CANNOT do is inject his or her personal politics to directly insult and humiliate a student. Reading Is Fundamental.

Religion and politics are topics that are so prevalent they're connected to a LOT of lessons. You basically can't teach history or any of the social sciences without dealing with them. English, once you get past grammar and spelling and start actually reading anything will similarly touch on both constantly. There will even be important points that have to be made during science lessons, whenever you touch on the history of science and, say, why there was so much opposition to Darwin's theories.

About the only subject you WON'T be touching on politics and/or religion is mathematics.


I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".
 
2011-05-04 05:37:31 PM

CheekyMonkey: Thunderpipes: Yet if a liberal teacher goes off about how evil Bush is, it is freedom of speech.....

Double standard libs, gotta love em.

All hail Thunderpipes, King of the Strawmen!


I am still trying to figure out if he is real or a character.
 
2011-05-04 05:39:14 PM

jst3p: CheekyMonkey: Thunderpipes: Yet if a liberal teacher goes off about how evil Bush is, it is freedom of speech.....

Double standard libs, gotta love em.

All hail Thunderpipes, King of the Strawmen!

I am still trying to figure out if he is real or a charactericature.

 
2011-05-04 05:40:02 PM

thomps: Kimothy: As a professional educator, I heartily disagree. When we apply for our teaching licenses, we sign a code of ethics regarding our treatment of students. Here's the Texas version:

i was just trying to make a joke based on the assumption that she really was grieving over the loss of bin laden. it didn't work.

i'm in the "sh*tcan the guy" camp on this one.


Don't lose hope! I thought it was funny!
 
2011-05-04 05:40:24 PM

what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:

is Bin Laden's niece.


So if I offer my penis as one of the twin towers and suggest she blow it up, would that be wrong?
 
2011-05-04 05:40:34 PM

what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:



is Bin Laden's niece.


Nice burqa
 
2011-05-04 05:46:00 PM

Thunderpipes: Is it not true? In my college courses (just graduated after 19 years,heh) I got so pissed at liberal professors spewing crap. It is perfectly fine huh? Imagine if one made an anti-Islamic crack? I had one guy totally crapping on the US, Bush, and conservatives at every turn, but that is fine according to you. Tired of it.


I just wish you'd be the real you.
 
2011-05-04 05:47:27 PM

House of Tards: what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:



is Bin Laden's niece.

'Til she collapses like WTC7.


I'd take a picture of that, but not show it to anyone.

/and hide the DNA results
 
2011-05-04 05:48:28 PM

thomps: that guy should definitely be disciplined for compounding her grief and loss, but i think firing the guy is a little extreme.


I honestly have no sympathy. A close friend of mine's dad was in the second tower, and she got spit on by some racist shiat before she even learned whether or not he was still alive. Because, you know, she was brown-ish. Must be a terrorist, right?

/He got out
 
2011-05-04 05:48:57 PM

what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:



is Bin Laden's niece.


I would hit it so hard she would convert to jst3pism and pray in the direction of my cock 5 times a day.
 
2011-05-04 05:49:35 PM
Really? Reaallllyyy? Goddammit, assholes, stop making the sane Texans look bad.
 
2011-05-04 05:50:07 PM
Mr Rusty Shackleford Quote 2011-05-04 05:46:00 PM

I just wish you'd be the real you.

>>>

Can you see the reaaaalll meeee, doctor? Doctor?
 
2011-05-04 05:50:09 PM

buckler: I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".


And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between education and indoctrination. Teachers are supposed to do the former. They're forbidden from doing the latter. Up here, being found to be indoctrinating students won't just get you fired, it'll get your license revoked.

It's antithetical to education. If your political views are legitimate, you'll convince kids just by explaining them. If you have to start into the "I'm right because you're stupid" bullshiat, that's a sign that you don't have a farking clue.

Which is why I build in lessons designed to get my students to question me. I don't want them necessarily taking me at my word. If something a teacher says doesn't make sense, I absolutely want my, and anyone's, students to say "that doesn't make sense, explain it so I can understand it". Not feel like they shouldn't question Authority and should just accept their elder's instructions mindlessly.
 
2011-05-04 05:58:01 PM

acaciaavenue: what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl is Bin Laden's niece.

I'd put two in her head and toss her in the ocean.


She can't refuse. Because of the implications.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2011-05-04 06:06:47 PM

House of Tards: what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:



is Bin Laden's niece.

'Til she collapses like WTC7.


Thank you, what_now, for posting the pic. Awesome replies.

/more or less the one that came to my mind, except collapse = go down
 
2011-05-04 06:07:11 PM

jst3p: would hit it so hard she would convert to jst3pism and pray in the direction of my cock 5 times a day.


i101.photobucket.com
 
2011-05-04 06:08:30 PM

Thorak: buckler: I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".

And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between education and indoctrination. Teachers are supposed to do the former. They're forbidden from doing the latter. Up here, being found to be indoctrinating students won't just get you fired, it'll get your license revoked.

It's antithetical to education. If your political views are legitimate, you'll convince kids just by explaining them. If you have to start into the "I'm right because you're stupid" bullshiat, that's a sign that you don't have a farking clue.

Which is why I build in lessons designed to get my students to question me. I don't want them necessarily taking me at my word. If something a teacher says doesn't make sense, I absolutely want my, and anyone's, students to say "that doesn't make sense, explain it so I can understand it". Not feel like they shouldn't question Authority and should just accept their elder's instructions mindlessly.


Let me ask you a question. If a student directly asks you about your, say, political beliefs, how much leeway do you have to explain and describe them without crossing the line?
 
2011-05-04 06:10:55 PM

buckler: Thorak: buckler: I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".

And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between education and indoctrination. Teachers are supposed to do the former. They're forbidden from doing the latter. Up here, being found to be indoctrinating students won't just get you fired, it'll get your license revoked.

It's antithetical to education. If your political views are legitimate, you'll convince kids just by explaining them. If you have to start into the "I'm right because you're stupid" bullshiat, that's a sign that you don't have a farking clue.

Which is why I build in lessons designed to get my students to question me. I don't want them necessarily taking me at my word. If something a teacher says doesn't make sense, I absolutely want my, and anyone's, students to say "that doesn't make sense, explain it so I can understand it". Not feel like they shouldn't question Authority and should just accept their elder's instructions mindlessly.

Let me ask you a question. If a student directly asks you about your, say, political beliefs, how much leeway do you have to explain and describe them without crossing the line?


i would tell them that it's not to be discussed in class
 
2011-05-04 06:11:51 PM

Thunderpipes: Yet if a liberal teacher goes off about how evil Bush is, it is freedom of speech.....

Double standard libs, gotta love em.


So what are you trying to say here? That this teacher's behavior was merely a typical conservative's viewpoint?
 
2011-05-04 06:16:20 PM

pxlboy: buckler: Thorak: buckler: I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".

And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between education and indoctrination. Teachers are supposed to do the former. They're forbidden from doing the latter. Up here, being found to be indoctrinating students won't just get you fired, it'll get your license revoked.

It's antithetical to education. If your political views are legitimate, you'll convince kids just by explaining them. If you have to start into the "I'm right because you're stupid" bullshiat, that's a sign that you don't have a farking clue.

Which is why I build in lessons designed to get my students to question me. I don't want them necessarily taking me at my word. If something a teacher says doesn't make sense, I absolutely want my, and anyone's, students to say "that doesn't make sense, explain it so I can understand it". Not feel like they shouldn't question Authority and should just accept their elder's instructions mindlessly.

Let me ask you a question. If a student directly asks you about your, say, political beliefs, how much leeway do you have to explain and describe them without crossing the line?

i would tell them that it's not to be discussed in class


That would be my first instinct too; in fact, I've done it before, though in an informal-education environment. I was just curious if the rules are different in school.
 
2011-05-04 06:17:04 PM
Oh for fark's sake...

/seriously wanting to leave this state
//wtf is WRONG with these people???
 
2011-05-04 06:19:18 PM

tudorgurl: Oh for fark's sake...

/seriously wanting to leave this state
//wtf is WRONG with these people???


A: Simple solutions to complex problems.
 
2011-05-04 06:21:00 PM

tudorgurl: Oh for fark's sake...

/seriously wanting to leave this state
//wtf is WRONG with these people???


*clicks link*

*sees it's Clear Brook*

Yep, that's to be expected.
 
2011-05-04 06:25:25 PM

LaraAmber: Hot Lunch: I've got to imagine that people said stuff like this to their Middle Eastern friends all week.

No they don't. People who claim to have "A Middle Eastern Friend"* say things like this to people who can't say anything back, like the new guy at work who doesn't want to make waves.

*Collect them all! Black Friend, Gay Friend, Native American Friend, and the limited edition Inuk Friend (while supplies last).


I have an Ainu girlfriend.

/you wouldn't know her, she lives in Sapporo.
 
2011-05-04 06:28:41 PM

thomps: that guy should definitely be disciplined for compounding her grief and loss, but i think firing the guy is a little extreme.


Interesting. I thought the only two relevant questions were:

1) Did the guy do what he is alleged to have done? and if so,

2) Should he just lose his teaching license? Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?
 
2011-05-04 06:37:54 PM

captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?


Never go full retard.
 
2011-05-04 06:43:13 PM

jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.


Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."
 
2011-05-04 06:45:54 PM

captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.

Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."


In general, not. In this specific context, yes.
 
2011-05-04 06:50:25 PM
The sad part of this is that none of the other students apparently stood up for her. 14 years old or not, if there's 30 of you you can get one asshole to back down.
High school was a shark tank, but we never had that much trouble banding together when the teacher did something bullshiat.
 
2011-05-04 06:51:41 PM

jst3p: captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.

Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."

In general, not. In this specific context, yes.


In general, emotional abuse of a child should be prosecuted. But in this specific context, emotional abuse of a child should not be prosecuted.

I suppose I could ask you to explain that. Maybe you believe that emotional abuse of this child is justified because of her Muslim background. Or maybe you believe the teacher should be given a break here because he was just celebrating OBL's death.

I could ask for your explanation. But why bother?
 
2011-05-04 06:53:44 PM
Just shows how farking ignorant most of the state is and how it's one step closer to getting it's own Fark tag.
 
2011-05-04 06:55:29 PM
Simple solution.

Kill the teachers uncle and laugh in his face.
 
2011-05-04 07:00:02 PM

pxlboy: i would tell them that it's not to be discussed in class


Good, that lets them know that you're full of shiat.
 
2011-05-04 07:10:29 PM

Thorak: buckler: I fully agree, and I'm sorry if I presented myself harshly. The point is that you present the opposition in a factual matter. "However, these theories were opposed by XXX, who stated that '...' over time, however, the theories won general support because of XXX". That sort of thing. Not "If you don't accept these theories, you're an idiot".

And that, in a nutshell, is the difference between education and indoctrination. Teachers are supposed to do the former. They're forbidden from doing the latter. Up here, being found to be indoctrinating students won't just get you fired, it'll get your license revoked.

It's antithetical to education. If your political views are legitimate, you'll convince kids just by explaining them. If you have to start into the "I'm right because you're stupid" bullshiat, that's a sign that you don't have a farking clue.

Which is why I build in lessons designed to get my students to question me. I don't want them necessarily taking me at my word. If something a teacher says doesn't make sense, I absolutely want my, and anyone's, students to say "that doesn't make sense, explain it so I can understand it". Not feel like they shouldn't question Authority and should just accept their elder's instructions mindlessly.


The interesting thing about this conversation is that in the school of education at the university at which I got my non-education degree, indoctrination was considered the number one priority of teachers.

You deny the kids any opportunity to talk of their homelife, their family, their religion, their holidays. You do everything you can to separate them from whatever cultures they have at home, and you replace it with an artificial "American" culture that somehow magically encompasses everybody. You instill in them the "civil religion" that includes a common historical Christian narrative, and you gloss over the whole "racism" thing. You present the facts that are tested on, but that is secondary. The primary objective is to stamp out multiculturalism and a notion that the kids' families may have had roots outside of the US.

In fact, this was exactly what the students in the school of education had to say about what they were learning. And this was also the theoretical approach the public university administration took toward their own mostly urban student body.

As an anthropology major, I went rounds with these guys on every committee I served on. Their school and our department were diametrically opposed in every manner. Every conversation I had with them left me feeling like I'd spoken with a KKK propagandist.

I'm glad that they teach differently in other states.
 
2011-05-04 07:25:31 PM

Quasar: what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:

[www.chinadaily.com.cn image 256x345]

is Bin Laden's niece.

She gives me an underwear bomb.


Dood. I did not need that image in my head. Thanks. Send me a fork soon, k?
 
2011-05-04 07:31:35 PM

sigdiamond2000: I know how this guy feels. On 9/11, I had a view of Logan Airport outside the window of my space station orbiting Earth.


My favorite Fark meme not enough people remember. A+.
 
2011-05-04 07:34:10 PM
Teaching kids how to think rationally is akin to indoctrination!
 
2011-05-04 07:46:56 PM

jst3p: captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.

Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."

In general, not. In this specific context, yes.


THIS could be said for about at least half of all rebuttal posts on Fark...

It's not said often enough.
 
2011-05-04 07:53:03 PM
alywa:
Can't America celebrate for one day without you PC thugs trying to limit anyone who doesn't worship Allah's 1st ammendment rights?

1. The teacher has a right to his opinion.

2. Nowere in the artical do I see anything about this girl being harrassed or treated unfialry. Would it be insulting to ask a black student how he spent MLK? What about Mexicans how much they drank on Cinco De Mayo?


Okay, that was either the most amazing troll ever or the most asshatted comment on fark ever. Well done either way.
 
2011-05-04 07:55:07 PM
i225.photobucket.com
I'm ready when ever Fark is...
 
2011-05-04 08:10:03 PM
Once again for the mentally challenged apes out there: The 1st amendment guarantees that you don't get thrown in jail for trashtalking the president. It does not protect you from the social consequences of being a shiathead.
 
2011-05-04 08:15:02 PM

Coolfusis: Really? Reaallllyyy? Goddammit, assholes, stop making the sane Texans look bad.


Which one is the sane one?
 
2011-05-04 08:19:45 PM
Stay classy Texas. Wait, nevermind. fark Texas.
 
2011-05-04 08:24:48 PM

captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.

Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."

In general, not. In this specific context, yes.

In general, emotional abuse of a child should be prosecuted. But in this specific context, emotional abuse of a child should not be prosecuted.

I suppose I could ask you to explain that. Maybe you believe that emotional abuse of this child is justified because of her Muslim background. Or maybe you believe the teacher should be given a break here because he was just celebrating OBL's death.

I could ask for your explanation. But why bother?


I don't agree that this constitutes abuse. I am not defending it but I fail to this isolated indecent as criminal behavior.
 
2011-05-04 08:25:27 PM

jst3p: captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: jst3p: captain_heroic44: Or should be also be prosecuted for 3rd degree child abuse?

Never go full retard.

Because contemplating criminally prosecuting a teacher who may have emotionally abused a child for emotional abuse of a child is "full retard."

In general, not. In this specific context, yes.

In general, emotional abuse of a child should be prosecuted. But in this specific context, emotional abuse of a child should not be prosecuted.

I suppose I could ask you to explain that. Maybe you believe that emotional abuse of this child is justified because of her Muslim background. Or maybe you believe the teacher should be given a break here because he was just celebrating OBL's death.

I could ask for your explanation. But why bother?

I don't agree that this constitutes abuse. I am not defending it but I fail to this isolated indecent as criminal behavior.



Great moments in spell check!
 
2011-05-04 08:44:09 PM

buckler: Let me ask you a question. If a student directly asks you about your, say, political beliefs, how much leeway do you have to explain and describe them without crossing the line?


It's actually pretty open. To cross the line I'd actually have to start insisting that my beliefs are the only legitimate beliefs, or requiring that my students adopt my own beliefs.

The OCT doesn't really care if a licensed member is openly Christian, Muslim, Liberal, Markist-Leninist, or what have you. As long as you're not using your position as a teacher to convince students your way is the "right" way.


I'd probably use the question as a teaching point, get them to be a bit more specific about a subject (beliefs on what, exactly), and then provide an answer, include what I see as the ramifications, the advantages and disadvantages of that position. I'd also mention a couple other major viewpoints, and their advantages and disadvantages. It helps that I can't define myself as "a Conservative" or "a Liberal"; my views are my own, not something I'm parroting from a party pamphlet.

BolloxReader: I'm glad that they teach differently in other states.


I'm not in the "states", which may be part of it.

I only got my license last year, but we had an entire week of our major ethics course that focused directly on indoctrination. There's a certain amount of it that's unavoidable; teaching kids proper conduct and such isn't easily handled any other way, but in general, we're encouraged to focus on critical thinking in education, up here. We give kids access to information, and we teach them how to analyze it. And then THEY draw conclusions. They don't learn anything if we just get them to repeat OUR conclusions.
 
2011-05-04 08:56:59 PM

Beaver1224: eatin' fetus: what_now: Oh, and BTW, this girl:

is Bin Laden's niece.

Dayum. I'd put one in her head

SOP would be two "center mass" and one to the head.

/Sounds good to me


I was thinking the same thing. "Yeah, I'd double tap that, 1 in the chest, one in the face". But, I'll require a 5 minute refractory period inbetween
 
2011-05-04 09:05:46 PM

thomps: that guy should definitely be disciplined for compounding her grief and loss, but i think firing the guy is a little extreme.


Nah. Fark that guy. There are plenty of teachers looking for work and if he wants to be a stand-up comedian, he might want to pursue that avenue instead.
 
2011-05-04 10:16:45 PM

Big Al: itsfullofstars Quote 2011-05-04 04:08:39 PM
This is Texas, I'm surprised a girl was allowed to enroll in school.


LOL

It's probably a required 8 hours of cooking classes each day


Beer delivery training.

Sammich making class.

Mono-brow tweezing studies.
 
2011-05-04 10:27:53 PM

Thorak: We give kids access to information, and we teach them how to analyze it. And then THEY draw conclusions. They don't learn anything if we just get them to repeat OUR conclusions.


That's exactly what we need to combat the rising tide of misinformation, conspiracy theories, anti-vaxxers and creationists.

Instead of uncritically accepting the word of doctors or historians or scientists, kids should be taught to draw their own conclusions based on whatever information they can access on the Internet.
 
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