itsanillusionmichael:

I'd rather die than kill anyone for any reason. Why? Because I'd rather die than live in the world as a murderer.



LOL JUS KIDDIN!!

I heard some retard on the TV yesterday talkin bout some dead guy that used to spout dumb crap like this. Yeah they killed him too.

lol

Schlock: Thunderpipes: Great plan, until the next 3,000 Americans get killed in a terrorist attack, or China and Russia decide they can kick our ass finally and go all Red Dawn.

We spend way to much on education. We need to just start disciplining kids, period.

Right, cause the military has been so effective in stopping terrorist attacks

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi would like to tell you the same thing, except he's dead. (new window)

Velveeta_Poindexter: Maybe it's naive, but surely this--or something like it--would provide an incentive for SAVING money instead of wasting it?

You will then just be encouraged to "pad" your budget at the bginning of every year.

DarnoKonrad: I agree sort of. It's not a question of cigarette smoking floozy moms, but a growing societal attitude of rampant anti-intellectualism combined with austere views of public institutions in general.

Which is always on display in Fark threads.

The floozy mom/drunken dad is a facetious exaggeration. I don't necessarily see it as anti-intellectualism but non-intellectualism. A total lack of awareness of many parents (lower and lower middle class) who lack the time to do and provide for their kids the experience/education to excel.

Our lauded ten percenters are more likely to just yank their kids from school and/or teach them their worldview and all related materials. I'm more concerned that kids are coming into the system at 5 or 6 years of age with no worthwhile education beforehand.

thenateman: SpacemanSpoof: As a former DoD employee, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...

Seriously, there's so much waste in government spending, they could probably cut the budget in half and lose nothing, except some dead weight.

The most disgusting thing I saw there was around the end of the budget year. Apparently, if you don't use up your whole budget, it stands a good chance to be cut the following year. So naturally, every department hoards its money until the last month or so and then scrambles to spend every last dollar. Figuring out how to end that practice alone would save a tremendous amount of money.

Is waste unique to DoD, or could most agencies take some budget hits without hurting service?

Any group, organization, company, corporation, or agency that deals with money could use some budget slimming. Big corporations and govt. agencies tend to have billions instead of millions at their disposal, and therefore graft, greed, and misuse are commonplace.

i'm okay with this.

itsanillusionmichael: Still, woulda been invented anyways. Sorry, but it's true. Technology happens, it doesn't need war to drive it. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs weren't defense contractors.

I agree. Usually the science behind a technology is in place before a war, because there is very little time to do purely theoretical research during wartime. The pressures of war certainly seems to speed things up, probably for a couple reasons. Governments are more inclined to fund research during wartime, even outlandish ideas, and during a total war (such as World War II) nearly every citizen not serving in the military is a de facto defense contractor (since nearly 100% of the fruits of their labor goes directly to the war effort). Additionally, during wartime, new, practical, and effective applications of existing technology are the most valuable. Innovation doesn't NEED war, but it provides a powerful impetus.

Father_Jack: wrestler79: Father_Jack: scooter1369: And they are threatening cutting sports programs in my district if a levy fails to pass. 268 teachers in this district make over $70,000 a year, over 85% of the budget is wrapped in salaries for the teachers, and they want more money, which will just go to pay the teachers even more and have no direct effect on the classroom.

yeah how DARE those teachers make a good living? not like they do anything important...

Not bad wages for 9 months of work however.

my exwife was a teacher. the 9mos a year they work more than enough to compensate for the summer: grading at night, calls to parents, lesson planning etc. They work from 630 to 4, have dinner then work again 7-10.

I work for a school district and I can tell you they work on their off-time. Their days definitely do not end at 3:00pm. Hell, I see a lot of teachers in the buildings during the summer months becuase they're preparing for fall.

As for the wages, most of our teachers have masters or even PHDs and they don't make near that amount per year. These same degrees could earn them the same amount or even more in the corporate world, so the whole argument that they get paid too much is a joke. A teaching license and a bachelor's degree takes a lot more work than some MBA coming out of college goes through. Then they have to continually advance their education to keep their licenses. That process isn't free, either.

I don't know of many businesses that require their employees with Bachelors to advance that to a Masters so they can keep their jobs. In corporations, that's the way to get a raise and a promotion.

Teachers are not a leech on "the system". They are what keeps the system online. They are what keeps the next generation improving and innovating the system. If we strip education, Idiocracy will become reality. In some respects, it already is and it's scary.

Here's a novel approach. Reduce the federal government to its constitutionally mandated responsibilities: defense and the protection of our borders, adjudication of matters between the several states, enforcement of interstate contracts. Anything more is about theft and corruption.

How the hell did this thread devolve into a derpey "teachers get paid too much" thread? The paper said a few things are necessary to improve the USAs ability to pay for its power and influence, and only one of these was education.

Do you guys just reflexively sprout talking points or continue to rehash old political stoushes? If so, it's seriously hampering your ability to comment on a new topic.

/yeah, I know, welcome to Fark.

A Captain and a Colonel does not the Joint Chiefs of Staff make, young Skywalker.

Ok, when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American, and start investing in the same things, I'll follow right along.

NkThrasher: Cuchulane: Schlock: historycat: Between this an the Speaker of the House agreeing with the President about cutting Oil subsidies I am left with only two options.

1. It's bizzaro day on Fark and the Mod/mins are screwing with us by planting false stories around the web.

2. The progressives have won.

/please let both stories be true.
//yay! end of the military-industrial complex.

I'm hesitantly hopeful, but after reading Heron's post I'm kind of more inclined to agree with him that the military's actions speak louder than their words, and that this is just manipulation cause they see which way the winds are blowing.

Or it could be that career military personnel tend to have a strong love of country.

And or it makes the military's job a *lot* easier when there isn't public disdain for what they do. Even if it means a reduction in new tech etc, it could well mean an increase in ability to get things done when they aren't fighting public opinion at every turn.

As someone who teaches US history, and Government I can tell you truly that teachers love this country just as much as any soldier. Our calling wasn't to go and fight and die, but to produce those citizen-soldiers who make our democracy what it is. We morn just as much as the families when our kids are killed in one of these foreign wars, and we support our nation by telling kids that it isn't perfect, but it's the best there has ever been.

We also morn when we see the future being drained away from our youth through lack of good paying jobs, and fighting needless conflicts all for the benefit of the corporate interest.

We feel the same frustration when we talk to the kids about the debt that they are going to be saddled with, when we talk about the lack of attention they feel they have from their elected officials.

We want all of our kids to know what it's like to be in an America at peace, (something none of my current high school kids remember first hand), and in an America that prospers.

When they see news stories about Flying Humvees and wonder why they are going to have this debt it will be nice to be able to tell them that the military finally agrees.

I don't think that it's the military who are to blame for our priorities getting out of control, the problem is in ourselves. We want Congress to spend money so we have jobs and so that we can pretend there is nothing to fear. Congress does what we tell them to. The military uses what Congress buys for them.

The Military is good at doing what we tell them to, that's their calling as the protectors of democracy. If we ask them to do less with less they will find a way.

It's the corporate lobbyists, the weak campaign finance rules, and a complacent population that have gotten us where we are. It's not the military's fault. It's not the teachers' fault. We each sacrifice to help society in our own ways.

When major empires fell we could always look to the leaders, the corruption at the top to figure out whom to blame. Whether it was a military which led a coup, or an aristocracy which was out of control it was always easy to lay blame at someone's feet. The media still likes to pretend that it will be our leaders' fault. That everything bad is due to their incompetence, their flawed philosophy, or their corruption. In a democracy we have no one to blame but ourselves.

So unless we take the advice of these men who truly see the inner workings it will be our time to pass from the stage and become the new Britain. The latest former empire.

ansius: How the hell did this thread devolve into a derpey "teachers get paid too much" thread? The paper said a few things are necessary to improve the USAs ability to pay for its power and influence, and only one of these was education.

Do you guys just reflexively sprout talking points or continue to rehash old political stoushes? If so, it's seriously hampering your ability to comment on a new topic.

/yeah, I know, welcome to Fark.

If only there were a series of comments available, organized chronologically, perhaps, which could be read in order to bring a newcomer up to speed on the current discussion.

Why does Fark not implement such a system?

I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

andrewskdr: Ok, when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American, and start investing in the same things, I'll follow right along.

Well stated, Derp McDerperton.

andrewskdr: Ok, when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American, and start investing in the same things, I'll follow right along.

Why just Islamic?

Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

Cinaed: A total lack of awareness of many parents (lower and lower middle class) who lack the time to do and provide for their kids the experience/education to excel.

I don't think that's a problem however. That's always been true, and people can still excel from those backgrounds. But the people who actively try to break public institution out of ideological necessity are a problem.

I agree it's a people problem, just not the demographic you've identified.

ThisNameSux: Let's just do away with defense spending alltogether. Yep, that will work.

Well we have lots of stuff we could do away with, like most foreign military bases, boomer subs, maybe a carrier group or two, our stockpile of various field pieces and some other stuff. Including a fair amount of stuff the military got without even wanting.

Schlock: Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

yup. thats why that boy is the one and only person on my ignore list.

WhyteRaven74: untaken_name: I see the "I can't prove you wrong so I'll call you names" brigade is also on duty.

No one needs to prove you wrong since you haven't substantiated your assertion.

So remember kids, never defend yourselves against any accusations if the evidence of such isn't thrown right in your face on highlighted laminated documents with little arrows pointing out all the bolded and underlined facts for you.

If you want to counter someone's argument, saying "I don't have to since you didn't either" doesn't quite work the same as "linky (pops)"

historycat: NkThrasher: Cuchulane: Schlock: historycat: Between this an the Speaker of the House agreeing with the President about cutting Oil subsidies I am left with only two options.So unless we take the advice of these men who truly see the inner workings it will be our time to pass from the stage and become the new Britain. The latest former empire.

Umm..."I don't want Congress to spend money so we can have jobs"

I want Congress to spend money to protect us and to provide roads for me to drive on.

I don't believe Congress should be spending money to I can "have a job" ... or is that just how all you teachers look at it?

WhyteRaven74: http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li9yy4VJ7s1qad4ino1_500.jpg

You know, I just thought of something...

The right whines constantly about how schools cost SO MUCH more per-child than they used to. How does that compare, I wonder, to how much we spend on a new military aircraft or missiles and bombs.

And then there's time constraints, doesn't it take like 3 years to make an f-22?

monoski: andrewskdr: Ok, when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American, and start investing in the same things, I'll follow right along.

Why just Islamic?

Because that's what headline stated?

andrewskdr: Ok, when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American, and start investing in the same things, I'll follow right along.

Cause all that's standing between them and us is the half a trillion we pump into the military every year, right? They must just be ravaging every other country that spends ridiculously less on their military, like Britain, France, Germany...

andrewskdr: when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American,

So you'll let someone who is no threat to you dictate how you live your life?

Phil Herup: we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood

Those two together won't pay for a single new submarine. We really don't need to have more fast attack subs on active service than other countries have subs total. Currently the Russian navy has as many subs in commission as the US has fast attack subs. And we're working on replacing that fleet. Cause, apparently someone in Congress still thinks it's 1960.

Father_Jack: Schlock: Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

yup. thats why that boy is the one and only person on my ignore list.

Then I apologize for quoting him

Father_Jack: Schlock: Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

yup. thats why that boy is the one and only person on my ignore list.

That's the reason? Why people choose to ignore other people who may disagree with them seems illogical. It's what I like to call ..."People who want to live in Rainbow and Unicorn land"

You might just learn something ... unless of course, you know EVERYTHING? Just sayin'

WhyteRaven74: Currently the Russian navy has as many subs in commission as the US has fast attack subs. And we're working on replacing that fleet. Cause, apparently someone in Congress still thinks it's 1960.

Well, someone needs to be prepared to defend us from the merman menace.

WhyteRaven74: andrewskdr: when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American,

So you'll let someone who is no threat to you dictate how you live your life?

Obama? Oh hell no he won't!

@21-7-b

You know "deficit" is the budget deficit, not the trade deficit?

CountryClubRepublican.com

Father_Jack: Jackpot777: "What vast additions to the conveniences and comforts of living might mankind have acquired, if the money spent in wars had been employed in works of public utility; what an extension of agriculture even to the tops of our mountains; what rivers rendered navigable, or joined by canals; what bridges, aqueducts, new roads, and other public works, edifices, and improvements might not have been obtained by spending those millions in doing good, which in the last war have been spent in doing mischief."

This is SOCIALISM.

According to the pundits, this sort of thing should be done by free enterprise, because if its public works, its inefficient and wasteful and will never get done. This is looking for big government to solve all your problems, get off your ass and get a job and quit whining for handouts.

(am i doing it right?)

Disco!!

Schlock: liam76: DarnoKonrad: So, if you want to compare costs, you need to index them to GDP and look at what the educational system does. For example, U.S. schools teach *all* students. Many nations don't do that -- they have tiered educational systems.


That would be great for the Us, but will never happen.

The secodn you have a higher percent of white kids on the "college path" the system willbe shut down as racist.

I don't understand, what is a tiered educational system?

in most countries the dumber kids are taken out of school early, given vocational education, and sent to work. So when you see these stats about how other countries are so much better than the US in science and math education there is a degree of disingenuity to it. your comparing all but a small percentage of the US's children with the best and brightest of other countries.

To some degree this happens in the US too. In some states kids have to meet several academic requirements to take the SAT, these states naturally tend to have the higher score percentages, whereas the states that allow anyone who ponies up the fee to take it score lower.

Man, this thread is educational.

mxBags: Father_Jack: Schlock: Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

yup. thats why that boy is the one and only person on my ignore list.

That's the reason? Why people choose to ignore other people who may disagree with them seems illogical. It's what I like to call ..."People who want to live in Rainbow and Unicorn land"

You might just learn something ... unless of course, you know EVERYTHING? Just sayin'

because i disagree with him is not why he's ignored. that he is unable to construct an original thought or say anything but tired cliches which piss me off is. And no, there's nothing to learn from him, except how to use the "ignore" feature on fark.

wrestler79: Defense budget is $685 billion and yes we can cut some of that but the deficit is $1.8 trillion, if we cut all the defense budget we can still not cover the deficit. Next idea?

You mean to tell me that we can't just do 1 thing and fix all of our problems? That maybe we would have to combine reasonable cuts to defense with tax reform, health care reform and entitlement reform? Well, f*ck that! If it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker, it's not a solution worth pursuing!

WhyteRaven74: andrewskdr: when the Islamic Extremists stop wanting to kill any and every American,

So you'll let someone who is no threat to you dictate how you live your life?

Phil Herup: we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood

Those two together won't pay for a single new submarine. We really don't need to have more fast attack subs on active service than other countries have subs total. Currently the Russian navy has as many subs in commission as the US has fast attack subs. And we're working on replacing that fleet. Cause, apparently someone in Congress still thinks it's 1960.

I'd rather have paid for a fleet of subs and not need them, rather than need them ... and not have them.

mxBags: You might just learn something ... unless of course, you know EVERYTHING? Just sayin'

The probability of learning something from Phil are... slim. He's not missing much by having him ignored.

WhyteRaven74: So you'll let someone who is no threat to you dictate how you live your life?

I mean they aren't threatening me until they fly a passenger jet into my work, but yeah I guess see what you're saying.

CountryClubRepublican: You know "deficit" is the budget deficit, not the trade deficit?

Stop pimping your own blog, you cock!

Diplomacy with whom?

Anyone who is actually willing to talk to us and not actively trying to murder us. We talk to. Where's the middle ground for an Islamic Extremist... He only murders half of you while forcing the rest to convert to Islam?

What do you mean by 'infrastructure'?

Do you mean the roads, bridges, sewers, ect ect that are falling apart and have been for a long time? In which case sure. I used to think that infrastructure only covered those things but since I know politicians, and liberals in particular, I know that as soon as you start saying 'Spend money on X' then the number of things 'X' covers magically grows to include hither to never thought of things that have nothing to do with it.

Invest in education how?

We already spent more money for worse results when it comes to education. Throwing more and more money at it is not going to solve the underlying issue. If you plan to use the money to completely scrap and then rebuild the education system from the ground up, destroying teachers unions and introducing competition then that's a great idea.

Seems to work for most other major countries but when you start telling public school teachers that they have to actually "compete" they scream and start shoveling union money on liberal politicians, who work hard to make sure their cash cow is securely employed.

Slash defense spending?

Only if you plan on slashing entitlement programs at the same time because that is what is actually driving up our deficit and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar or a fool.

mxBags: Father_Jack: Schlock: Phil Herup: I agree we need to massively cut back on military spending.

But first, in order to practice how to do it, we need to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood. Those are luxuries we can't afford now.

I wish you were kidding but know this kind of crap is your schtick.

yup. thats why that boy is the one and only person on my ignore list.

That's the reason? Why people choose to ignore other people who may disagree with them seems illogical. It's what I like to call ..."People who want to live in Rainbow and Unicorn land"

You might just learn something ... unless of course, you know EVERYTHING? Just sayin'

It's only beneficial to try and understand another person's point of view when that point of view isn't contrived for the sole purpose of pissing people off. Phil's a troll, and I know a lot of people simply dismiss anyone who disagrees with them as a troll, but he really is.

Investing in education won't save you when those jobs are being sent to India.

TheBigJerk: How does that compare, I wonder, to how much we spend on a new military aircraft or missiles and bombs.

As of a few years ago each new USAF pilot cost the military over a million dollars in training. The new F-35A, the USAF model, is expected to cost $120 million, each. The Navy and Marines models are going to cost more. By way of comparison the F-22 cost $150 million each. And it was so far over budget they built nowhere near as many as they planned. And if you want a further comparison, an Airbus A320 airliner costs just under $100 million. Or if you want to stick with American stuff, a Boeing 737, yes they still make those, will run you also under $100 million. A 767 will run about $160 million. But that point, you're better off waiting for the 787 which is superior all around, or supposed to be at any rate, and costs just a bit more. Ohh yeah, the F-35 program in total is planned to be the largest defense program in history, total cost? About $323 billion dollars. Which will buy, as of now though it's subject to change, 2,443 planes for the US military.