Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: There was an opt-out for that when it was announced by Apple. If you've opted out, the data shouldn't need to be stored at all. Period.

There was an opt-out. It also opted you out of iTunes and the app store.

I hate itunes. I do love the podcasts though.

Kirk's_Toupee: I hate itunes. I do love the podcasts though.

Zune does that too.

This Theaetetus character is probably the worst apple apologist I've witnessed on the net yet, and I've seen a lot over the years.

But then, his bio lists him as a patent agent, so his douchebaggery is entirely understandable, some might say 'expected'.

Marine1: Zune did that too.

Kirk's_Toupee: I hate itunes. I do love the podcasts though.

Its like someone ate lines of code and shiat out a media player.

s2s2s2: Marine1: Zune did that too.

They're still releasing new apps for it, and Microsoft shot down that story.

That's why you pay the 100% "Apple tax", for cool features like iSpy

dittybopper: Triangulation isn't as accurate as a good GPS fix. It's subject to the vagaries of radio propagation (reflection of the signal off buildings, etc.). Depending on local conditions, you could be 100 yards away or more from where you are triangulated. Depending on the density of cell sites, I'd think that getting your position within 25 yards would be an excellent DF fix.

Try more like 5 yards.

This was part of my phone's auto-locate/report feature I have turned on. The GPS however, is shut off.

/Windows Phone

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fark It: I have a smartphone. If I was really that worried about my provider tracking me I would just take the battery o.... oh.

The FBI can listen to anything within range of the mic on your phone, even if it's turned off and the battery is removed.

The FBI have perfected free energy? At last! Out dependence on oil is over!

I love technology! Anything new with lots of apps is just the best! I don't know why people complain about anything. Don't they want to keep with the times? Nobody's gonna do anything with all that information on you anyway. So just be happy with these awesome new inventions!
Hey! Wanna be Facebook friends?

1macgeek: But you're right. I am a total 'tard because I can read AND comprehend legally binding documents and choose to base my opinions on them, instead of relying on third-party heresay from a website.

What a jackhole I am!

Breathe dude. I'm fully aware that AT&T tracks my location data to help improve their network, and I'm OK with that. This logging that Apple is doing has nothing to do with that. Why would AT&T need Apple to track this data on the phones? They can do this themselves through their towers.

Back to my main point that I've repeated ad nauseam - I'm OK with Apple doing this as long as I can turn it off. It doesn't appear right now that its possible to do that.

Theaetetus: birchman: Theaetetus: GAT_00: Theaetetus: Duh. It's called location services.

Being able to obtain it is one thing, emergency services can do that with your cell phone if it is capable, but recording it is something else.

I know. That something else is called "location services" (new window). It enables location-based push ads, location-based tagging of photos, faster GPS syncing, etc.

How does storing every place you've ever been forever help that? That should all be done in real-time.

Location-based enhanced ad targeting. Say you live in Boston, but go to New York every month: by storing and analyzing location data over an extended time period, this can be determined, and then relevant ads for your next trip can be pushed to you - discounted travel tickets at that time, discounted theater shows, pre-paid restaurant reservations, etc.

Or, say you're at a baseball game. Different ads could be pushed to you depending on whether it's the first time you've ever been there, or whether you're a repeat attendee (e.g. possible season ticket holder). Or, still different ads based on the fact that you're at a baseball game today, but last week, you were at a basketball game, and the week before that at a hockey game (e.g. are you a general sports fan, or just a baseball fan?).

Doing this in real-time without using historical data is, by definition, impossible.

Has it possibly ever occurred to anyone that maybe I don't WANT to be bothered by incessant ad spamming.

Say what you will about politicians and lawyers but advertising and marketing people are the true scum of the earth.

MrSteve007: dittybopper: Triangulation isn't as accurate as a good GPS fix. It's subject to the vagaries of radio propagation (reflection of the signal off buildings, etc.). Depending on local conditions, you could be 100 yards away or more from where you are triangulated. Depending on the density of cell sites, I'd think that getting your position within 25 yards would be an excellent DF fix.

Try more like 5 yards.

This was part of my phone's auto-locate/report feature I have turned on. The GPS however, is shut off.

/Windows Phone

My Android phone got my location to within 8 yards when I opened up Google Maps with GPS turned off.

dieselmachine: This Theaetetus character is probably the worst apple apologist I've witnessed on the net yet, and I've seen a lot over the years.

But then, his bio lists him as a patent agent, so his douchebaggery is entirely understandable, some might say 'expected'.

I don't know, this 1macgeek guy is taking the cake for me, although it's possible he's just a troll because it's pretty over the top.

It's Major League Baseball!

No, Really. (new window)

Doesn't that beat all?

MrSteve007: dittybopper: Triangulation isn't as accurate as a good GPS fix. It's subject to the vagaries of radio propagation (reflection of the signal off buildings, etc.). Depending on local conditions, you could be 100 yards away or more from where you are triangulated. Depending on the density of cell sites, I'd think that getting your position within 25 yards would be an excellent DF fix.

Try more like 5 yards.

I really depends on the surrounding geography. On my phone the accuracy has varied widely.

Yeah apple is storing tracking data, figures. MY big deal with the whole thing is that they are storing it with absolutly NO encryption. This makes no damn sense.

You all realize that they're doing this for your own safety, right? Let me hear it from you! Can I get an Amen, [big] Brother?!?

Lemme tell you how much it still irks me when people use "bricked" to mean "something that can be remedied with a software restore."

That is not what "bricked" means.

How dare Apple track my location and store it! Where I go is my own private and personal business! Hang on, gotta do something real quick...

...facebook update: Whining on Fark.

Ok, back. I mean, what right does Apple have to keep track of my personal information? One sec...

...facebook update: Scratched my nose.

Ok. I mean, what do they need that info for? NOONE needs to know where I go and what I do all day! Hang on a sec...

...facebook update: going to the bathroom.
...facebook update: used 3 squares

I mean, The concept of my personal info, my whereabouts, and doings of the day being available for all to see, it just makes me cringe and feel dirty inside. I demand my privacy!

...facebook update: driving to store to buy a soda

/caresses rooted Captivate running Froyo-based FireFly 2.9 ROM with hybrid of Dark Fire and Gingerbread themes
//suck it, Apple

basemetal: I've always said, it's not the government that I fear watching me, they have proven time and time again to be bungling idiots. It's the big corporations that are watching you that I fear.

B/C big scary corporations have a military and can arbitrarily sieze your assets.

I find this horribly disturbing. If there is one thing I don't want a huge corporation to know... is that I go to work during the day and come home at night and the next day I do the exact same thing.

The only apple product I have is an Ipod shuffle, which was a gift from someone else, and I only use it at home.

So my level of concern about this is approaching nil. If you willingly buy products that are GPS-enabled and constantly communicate with the company who sold it to you - none of this should be a surprise.

BobaFeet: I find this horribly disturbing. If there is one thing I don't want a huge corporation to know... is that I go to work during the day and come home at night and the next day I do the exact same thing.

I don't want that either!!
"Mr. Stonicus, why haven't you made a credit card payment? We see that you are going to work every day, and only went out to eat once last week, and don't go anywhere else. What are you doing with all of your money?"

And yet i still can't get an app or an apple update that allows my phone to go on silent when I walk into work. Or my wifi to turn off and bluetooth to turn on when I leave my house.

Why do they handicap easy functions (saying they open doors to abuse/misuse) but leave other areas for abuse wide open? Ah, bureaucracy...even at a "progressive" company like Apple.

Knara: Lemme tell you how much it still irks me when people use "bricked" to mean "something that can be remedied with a software restore."

That is not what "bricked" means.

Yeah, I thought bricked meant when you basically turned your hardware into a brick.

oBrother.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fark It: I have a smartphone. If I was really that worried about my provider tracking me I would just take the battery o.... oh.

The FBI can listen to anything within range of the mic on your phone, even if it's turned off and the battery is removed.

Citation Needed

A few reality checks, lest I inadvertently do a Glenn Beck number on all of you, here:

This database isn't storing GPS data. It's just making a rough location fix based on nearby cell towers. The database can't reveal where you were...only that you were in a certain vicinity. Sometimes it's miles and miles off. This implies that the logfile's purpose is to track the performance of the phone and the network, and not the movements of the user.

A third party couldn't get access to this file without physical access to your computer or your iPhone. Not unless you've jailbroken your iPhone and didn't bother resetting its remote-access password... or there's an unpatched exploit that would give Random Person On The Internet root access to your phone.

It's pretty much a non-issue if you've clicked the "Encrypt iPhone Backup" option in iTunes. Even with physical access to your desktop, a no-goodnik wouldn't be able to access the logfile.

But still! What a nervous can of worms. This is an open, unlocked file in a known location in a standard database format that anybody can read. If someone has physical access to your Mac - or remote access to your user account - it's a simple matter of copying a file and opening it. And while the logfile can't tell someone that you were at a specific house, it can obviously tell your boss that you went to the Cape on the day you called in sick.

It's worse than that, though, because even if you are encrypting your backups, it's also available to anyone who has physical access to your iPhone.

The big question of course, is why Apple is storing this information. I don't have a definitive answer, but my little-birdie-informed understanding is that consolidated.db acts as a cache for location data, and that historical data should be getting culled but isn't, either due to a bug or, more likely, an oversight. I.e. someone wrote the code to cache location data but never wrote code to cull non-recent entries from the cache, so that a database that's meant to serve as a cache of your recent location data is instead a persistent log of your location history. I'd wager this gets fixed in the next iOS update.

1macgeek: beer4breakfast: They don't care if you can't get service at Aunt Mary's house except by holding the cat out a West-facing window while whistling the Star Spangled Banner. They do care that X amount of blocks (or square miles) AROUND Aunt Mary's house get Y-levels of measurable reception.

You know whats funny? I have an Aunt Mary and I get shiatty service from my AT&T device at her house in PA....

I don't care. Why should I care? I assume my service provider does the same thing.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Do you know how cell phones work? Asking for a cell phone that doesn't track your location is like asking for is a car that doesn't use fuel. It's like asking for a filling lunch that doesn't have any calories. It's just silly.

So in other words... it's ironic, don't you think?

Grass Hopper: The only apple product I have is an Ipod shuffle, which was a gift from someone else, and I only use it at home.

So my level of concern about this is approaching nil. If you willingly buy products that are GPS-enabled and constantly communicate with the company who sold it to you - none of this should be a surprise.

Oh, and I don't have any sort of cellphone.

/Self-admitted Luddite
//who works in the technology field - how's that for an identity crises?

no shiat...so what are you going to do about it? probably nothing...

I downloaded the app that maps your past locations, it is extremely biased by signal strength. Looking at where I actually live (since January) where I have weak signal, it maps tons of spread little circles, I assume corresponding to lots of pings on many towers. I drove through Hartford, CT 5 times since January at 60mph, it mapped much larger dots suggesting more time spent there than at my house. I took a 3 day trip to DC and spent maybe 5 days in Boston, so looking at the 4 month average, you'd think I live in Boston, Hartford or DC based on the intensity of tower pings

Obviously narrowing the dates mapped changes the appearance of the data mapped. But it made it clear to me that you could mess with the display of the data to make a map that suggests just about anything about a person's travel pattern or single places they have been and show it to a jury.

Silverstaff: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fark It: I have a smartphone. If I was really that worried about my provider tracking me I would just take the battery o.... oh.

The FBI can listen to anything within range of the mic on your phone, even if it's turned off and the battery is removed.

Citation Needed

Yes, citation please. I'd love to read it.

zz9: MrSteve007: dittybopper: Triangulation isn't as accurate as a good GPS fix. It's subject to the vagaries of radio propagation (reflection of the signal off buildings, etc.). Depending on local conditions, you could be 100 yards away or more from where you are triangulated. Depending on the density of cell sites, I'd think that getting your position within 25 yards would be an excellent DF fix.

Try more like 5 yards.

This was part of my phone's auto-locate/report feature I have turned on. The GPS however, is shut off.

/Windows Phone

My Android phone got my location to within 8 yards when I opened up Google Maps with GPS turned off.

Mine asks me to enable My Location source in system settings.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: stirfrybry: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: birchman: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Theaetetus:
Do you know how cell phones work? Asking for a cell phone that doesn't track your location is like asking for is a car that doesn't use fuel. It's like asking for a filling lunch that doesn't have any calories. It's just silly.

Not exactly.

You are right that it is impossible to find a cell phone without GPS, but that does not mean such a beast is impossible.

A car cannot run without fuel - no car in history ever could.

Cell phones ran for years without GPS - just because they are in every phone does not mean they are or should be necessary to the phone's operation. If enough people cared about this, you could make quite a bit of money making phones that had no GPS capability.

fireclown: I tend to keep my phone in a pocket of my backpack. How well would a Faraday cage liner work?

Well enough to keep your phone from receiving any incoming calls or text messages.

Because you carry your cell phone around all day only to make outgoing calls and texts, right?

oh no, they'll know i go to work and back home, and sometimes do other things.

/i get why it could bother people, but it doesn't bother me
//i don't consider my location to be particularly private information

SphericalTime: Theaetetus: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Theaetetus: Top switch does not exist, apparently.

Top switch doesn't do what you think it does since the. log. files. are. still. showing. up. on. devices. with. it. toggled. off.

[Citation needed]

All you've said is that log files are still. showing. up. on. devices. from. people. who. visited. a. web. site.

Don't know if anyone has pointed you to this, but this article seems to have that information.

Actually, that seems to be the opposite from what people are saying - the log didn't record when he was using GPS in Hong Kong.

Nonetheless, that doesn't indicate whether the log recorded at any point when "Location Services" were turned off.

Like I said in another thread. If you think Apple is the only one doing this, you're fooling yourself. Google Maps doesn't run on magic to get all its information.