msupf: Oh yeah, had those games as well. Here in MI we had 3 seasons of soccer outdoors, and two winter indoor soccer seasons. Spring and fall leagues were usually local games only(within a county or two), and summer league was travel/tournament team.

Only did indoor one year. The arena here put a bit of sand on the astro turf. If you hit the deck, you had a million little cuts. I didn't dig that too much. But playing the walls was a different experience.

Or
Link

considering the league was basically putting out the games for free in the U.S a few years ago,this isn't a bad deal.

NBC shouldn't even be considered no matter how much they bid after switching away from playoff overtime to some stupid horse race.

If Versus has agreed to show 90 regular season games each year, I think they're going to pick up 10-20 West Coast games and go with doubleheaders.

WSUCanuck: If Versus has agreed to show 90 regular season games each year, I think they're going to pick up 10-20 West Coast games and go with doubleheaders.

Yeah they are going to have too.

Also,

I don't see a lot of downside to this deal to be honest. Ok, if the NFL strikes the NHL can reasonably expect an icrease in viewership numbers, I'm sure that was s bargining point, and maybe the money isn't great compared to other sports, but this looks like a really good deal to me.

It's an increase in revenue for the League. Thanks to the salary cap, the NHL is gate driven. This is pretty unique in NA sports (because of the aforementioned high price TV deals) but the NHL has evolved in this enviroment, not without it's hiccups obviously (phoenix, Atlanta). However, the model is, and always has been, live off your local fan base.dletter: made an excellent point about how the NBA expanded into "only show in town" markets. and maybe that would have been successful for hockey, but Bettman has always been chasing expansion into existing markets, Southern, *non-canadian* markets, to chase this kind of guaranteed income.

And if that's his goal. The NBC makes sense.

Of the "big" four in American broadasting, I believe NBC is the smallest. That means the league and the Network will have similar goals and objectives. To grow amongst established competition. A fertile relationship, and even possibly symbiotic. Versus and NBC grow on the strentgh of the NHL, and the NHL rely on NBC's national exposure.

Also this deal could also be seen as the next logical step for NBC's investment in Hockey, the winter classic, the Winter Olymoic games.


I hate Bettman for being an opportunistic c*nt and striking while the iron was hot to advance his own agenda. ('yotes, Av's). But I do like this deal....

I really think that the wide screen HDTVs are what's going to save hockey on TV, regardless of what channel it's on. People who used to tell me they can't follow the puck now tell me they were channel surfing, stopped on a hockey game and stayed because it was exciting to watch (losing the red line helped a lot with that). And then they ask me to explain icing and off sides and how the players know when to change lines and how do they do that when the game is still being played. And then we have a new hockey fan joining the club.

I don't understand the logic of putting the best games on in the afternoon just when the weather is getting nice and people are dying to get outside. Show the game Sunday evening when people are sitting around, tired from the weekend and wanting to just hang out in front of the TV.

unyon: FTFA: "This is right across all factors, not the least of which is the tremendous relationship we have with NBC and Versus,"

All they need now is for anybody to watch on versus, and for NBC to air more than the occasional Sunday afternoon game but only after football season and certainly not if they can broadcast Australian rules dick wrestling instead.

Bettman- Quit fellating the US TV markets, particularly Phoenix. There's nobody home.

I think Phoenix is actually a good place for Hockey. Lots of people there are big into it and youth hockey is really picking up.

The franchises that need to go are Atlanta (not a hockey area) and Florida Panthers (town's too big for both of us...)

Problem with the Coyotes is the deal is being held up by shady politics, possibly due to conflicting interests with the diamondbacks. Link (new window) to some guys blog, but it's pretty informative.

FWIW I know some people up here who moved from Phoenix and they tell me youth hockey is big. In fact the dude who works at the pizza place near my house was a youth hockey player in Phoenix.

fusion7: Now all they need to do is throw a boatload of money at Gary Thorne to be the main play by play announcer. One of the few things I miss about ESPN Hockey coverage.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Have you ever heard him call a hockey game? He doesn't know the game. He spends the whole time telling anecdotes and stats, with the occasional "Now Lidstrom starts up ice." Then starts on "40 year old Lidstrom, who has won the Norris 20 times..." and gets derailed.

When ESPN carried the NHL, I wrote letters and emails asking to have him removed. They finally did... when the NHL collapsed

Get rid of Pierre the squirrel between the benches.

I like that NBC pregame/intermission crews consist of 2 guys, not 6 like the NFL. Canadian commentators have to be involved the analysis part, because let's face it, they know more than Americans when it comes to the minors and the culture. Also, get rid of fluff pieces. It's not in hockey's style.

An advantage of living in Detroit is having CBC, where their "fluff pieces" between periods consists of hockey history stories.

I'm also glad there are no dancing robots that are remnants of the mid 90's. Fox, I'm looking at you

3rd: If the NBA strikes (and it most likely will), then the NHL can pick up a huge chunk of people. Bettman just can't fark around with the rules this summer.

mjoven1975: Is there anybody who doesn't know that hockey is on Versus now? Is this really that big of a problem?

Oh, and NBC can you show somebody other than the Wings, Penguins, Capitals, Bruins, Flyers, Rangers, and Blackhawks? There are really good teams out west that you NEVER show.

If you watch hockey on versus you could never forget what channel it is you are watching. They say NHL on Versus at least 15 times per period.

It's hard to get western conference teams on NBC when they want to show the games at 12:30 on Sunday afternoons. Something tells me that Vancouver, LA, San Jose would have issues with going to see an NHL game at 9:30 AM.

Phins: I really think that the wide screen HDTVs are what's going to save hockey on TV, regardless of what channel it's on. People who used to tell me they can't follow the puck now tell me they were channel surfing, stopped on a hockey game and stayed because it was exciting to watch (losing the red line helped a lot with that). And then they ask me to explain icing and off sides and how the players know when to change lines and how do they do that when the game is still being played. And then we have a new hockey fan joining the club.

I don't understand the logic of putting the best games on in the afternoon just when the weather is getting nice and people are dying to get outside. Show the game Sunday evening when people are sitting around, tired from the weekend and wanting to just hang out in front of the TV.

HDTV has helped, but the cameras are still operated as if they're 4:3. Kind of dumb if you ask me.

Syllabic: I think Phoenix is actually a good place for Hockey. Lots of people there are big into it and youth hockey is really picking up.

Hockey is growing in the southwest again. It grew a lot in the 90s, moved to rollerhockey, then jumped off a cliff, but now it's back. Phoenix, OC, LA, etc.

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: I love baseball, played as much as I could when I was younger. I'm not that old, 36, but when I was a kid we'd get together and play pickup games of baseball, or even just home run derby in the summer. I don't see kids doing that anymore. Seems kids only play organized ball and the level of participation has dropped; the area I live in has more than quadrupled in size, yet there are fewer youth baseball teams by far.

It depends on the community. The kids are at the park playing over the line every weekend around here.


Soccer seems to be doing well among the kids though.

And Friday Night Lights(flag football). I blame parents of "precious snowflakes" for this.

bhcompy: And Friday Night Lights(flag football). I blame parents of "precious snowflakes" for this.

Yeah real parents let their kids get hundreds of mini-concussions like my parentlsfmnds mmf!

MugzyBrown: bhcompy: And Friday Night Lights(flag football). I blame parents of "precious snowflakes" for this.

Yeah real parents let their kids get hundreds of mini-concussions like my parentlsfmnds mmf!

I've played or coached youth/HS football for about 15 years of my life. I've seen one concussion, and that was from a player leading with his head. Hammer proper technique, and concussions are easily avoidable. NFL players get concussions because of poor technique and ridiculous strength and speed levels that you don't see at lower levels.

NBC has a huge audience and a crappy production value
Versus has a great production value and a tiny audience.

I guess they're splitting the difference?


NBC's gimmick of showing a local affiliate's pre-game show for the Winter Classic was just embarassing. It was like watching a high school news program.

Well, on the HD side for me it's between ESPNEWS and The Golf Channel, surrounded by NBATV and the MLB Network.

bhcompy:
Syllabic: I think Phoenix is actually a good place for Hockey. Lots of people there are big into it and youth hockey is really picking up.

Hockey is growing in the southwest again. It grew a lot in the 90s, moved to rollerhockey, then jumped off a cliff, but now it's back. Phoenix, OC, LA, etc.

wh...what? Phoenix is a great place for hockey? Does 50% attendance and a nearly certain departure from the area for the pro team mean a team is "back" ???

Moosecakes: bhcompy:
Syllabic: I think Phoenix is actually a good place for Hockey. Lots of people there are big into it and youth hockey is really picking up.

Hockey is growing in the southwest again. It grew a lot in the 90s, moved to rollerhockey, then jumped off a cliff, but now it's back. Phoenix, OC, LA, etc.

wh...what? Phoenix is a great place for hockey? Does 50% attendance and a nearly certain departure from the area for the pro team mean a team is "back" ???

Who said anything about the Coyotes? As mentioned already, people have a problem with them because of local politics, among other things(the fact that Phoenix has been massacred by the economy, for instance).

dletter: bhcompy: Moosecakes: bhcompy:
Syllabic: I think Phoenix is actually a good place for Hockey. Lots of people there are big into it and youth hockey is really picking up.

Hockey is growing in the southwest again. It grew a lot in the 90s, moved to rollerhockey, then jumped off a cliff, but now it's back. Phoenix, OC, LA, etc.

wh...what? Phoenix is a great place for hockey? Does 50% attendance and a nearly certain departure from the area for the pro team mean a team is "back" ???

Who said anything about the Coyotes? As mentioned already, people have a problem with them because of local politics, among other things(the fact that Phoenix has been massacred by the economy, for instance).

Well, I'd think locals (especially anyone who had to pay taxes to subsidize it) would really ticked off that they built a new arena JUST for the hockey team not even 10 years ago (since the Suns play in another arena) that will now not have a tentpole sports tenant. Even major cities like Chicago, Denver, Phily, Houston, etc, don't have TWO NBA/NHL level arenas. Seems like that is a big part of what needs to be answered about.

I imagine that is part of it. Basketball is king in LA without the NFL, but the Clippers aren't drawing like the Lakers. Does that mean that people don't like basketball all of the sudden? Or that people don't want to pay a ton of money to see a bad product or to support a piece of trash owner? Basically, the popularity of hockey has nothing to do with attendance at the Coyotes game.

Doc Daneeka:

Yeah, but then you have to add in the more than $100 million annually the NHL gets from Canadian national TV deals.

The other major pro leagues don't get significant money from Canadian television.

The Canadian TV deal is up in a couple years, and the early rumors are that it could garner as much as $250 million per year.

Because the NHL is the most binational of the leagues, Canadian and US revenues have to be considered together.

So what? With the current deals that's still barely 10 million per team in a league where franchises are losing nearly twice that amount. The 250 million rumor is just that, a rumor and I'm not going to hang my hat on it. If Bettman could land a 400-500 million dollar deal in the US then we'd be talking about a major breakthrough for NHL revenues, which is not impossible, but given the length of this deal won't be seen for another decade.

Flappyhead: So what? With the current deals that's still barely 10 million per team in a league where franchises are losing nearly twice that amount

Only one team is losing more than that amount, and that is a unique situation which will be resolved one way or another very shortly.

Don't think it's fair to make judgments about the state of the league by focusing on its one or two worst franchises. Every sports league has problem franchises.

Tozmo: fusion7: Now all they need to do is throw a boatload of money at Gary Thorne to be the main play by play announcer. One of the few things I miss about ESPN Hockey coverage.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Have you ever heard him call a hockey game? He doesn't know the game. He spends the whole time telling anecdotes and stats, with the occasional "Now Lidstrom starts up ice." Then starts on "40 year old Lidstrom, who has won the Norris 20 times..." and gets derailed.

When ESPN carried the NHL, I wrote letters and emails asking to have him removed. They finally did... when the NHL collapsed

Gary Thorne actually got his start in broadcasting doing play by play for the University of Maine hockey games in the late 70's when they started up the program....and there is no better hockey play by play guy ........period

As the league's revenues increase, the salary cap and floor will increase. The teams that don't draw (and/or spend to the floor) with lower ticket prices now will have to increase ticket prices and risk drawing even fewer fans as a result.

Its pretty much now-or-never for Atlanta and Phoenix. I don't see the Panthers leaving south Florida because they have committed ownership who'll market to anyone and EVERYONE.

Atlanta... not so much.

cptjeff: I would disagree on baseball. Granted, I've only been to minor league games in person, but I just can't see trying to actually follow the pitcher and hitter from anything but the best seats.

Depends on what you're looking for. If you really want to follow the game, maybe that's true. On the other hand, I can't stand watching baseball on TV, I find it too boring. But spending 10 bucks to go to a minor league game is a great way to spend an afternoon/evening. I don't know what it is, it's just fun to sit around at the park and watch a game.

FreakinB: WSUCanuck: As the league's revenues increase, the salary cap and floor will increase. The teams that don't draw (and/or spend to the floor) with lower ticket prices now will have to increase ticket prices and risk drawing even fewer fans as a result.

Well, shiat. I'd better enjoy some cheap-ass Islanders tickets while I can next season (new window).

/can't buy season tickets though.

Even though they finished worse than either of the other two, the Islanders are the most entertaining NY area team to watch!

Nassau Coliseum is a dump though.

Doc Daneeka: Flappyhead: So what? With the current deals that's still barely 10 million per team in a league where franchises are losing nearly twice that amount

Only one team is losing more than that amount, and that is a unique situation which will be resolved one way or another very shortly.

Don't think it's fair to make judgments about the state of the league by focusing on its one or two worst franchises. Every sports league has problem franchises.

And what about the ones that are barely turning a profit or just breaking even? Or the ones that are losing only a few million? Sure it looks like they stand to profit from it but keep in mind that the cap goes up along with revenues. So they gross an extra 7 million a year, but what happens when the cap(and therefore the floor) goes up by 3 million that summer? I'm not saying it's a phony money deal, I'm saying there isn't as much there as people might think.

Flappyhead: And what about the ones that are barely turning a profit or just breaking even?

Who cares?

A few million profit or loss for most of these owners isn't a big deal. It's a tax write-off for their main business.

Most of these owners are billionaires who don't own an NHL team for the purposes of making money on hockey operations from year to year. The negligible amounts they gain or lose from year to year are generally dwarfed anyway by the huge capital gain they generally make when they sell the franchise down the road, usually at a far higher price than they paid for it.

mehcky: Tozmo: fusion7: Now all they need to do is throw a boatload of money at Gary Thorne to be the main play by play announcer. One of the few things I miss about ESPN Hockey coverage.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Have you ever heard him call a hockey game? He doesn't know the game. He spends the whole time telling anecdotes and stats, with the occasional "Now Lidstrom starts up ice." Then starts on "40 year old Lidstrom, who has won the Norris 20 times..." and gets derailed.

When ESPN carried the NHL, I wrote letters and emails asking to have him removed. They finally did... when the NHL collapsed

Gary Thorne actually got his start in broadcasting doing play by play for the University of Maine hockey games in the late 70's when they started up the program....and there is no better hockey play by play guy ........period

That's great that he started at the college level, but watch a game with him and then watch a game by any of the CBC crews. Night and day. His hockey commentating has nothing to do with what's going on in the game, only from his notes.

Barry Melrose sucks.

Beer It's What's For Dinner: cptjeff: I would disagree on baseball. Granted, I've only been to minor league games in person, but I just can't see trying to actually follow the pitcher and hitter from anything but the best seats.

Depends on what you're looking for. If you really want to follow the game, maybe that's true. On the other hand, I can't stand watching baseball on TV, I find it too boring. But spending 10 bucks to go to a minor league game is a great way to spend an afternoon/evening. I don't know what it is, it's just fun to sit around at the park and watch a game.

Oh, the ballpark is a great place to spend an evening, but not so great a place to watch the ballgame. I mean, you'll have some idea of what pitches are doing, but if you want to get any decent idea of balls and strikes, how a pitch is breaking and such, it's either the TV or the pricey seats.

People talking about the TV rights comparing with the NHL's national deal with the other sports leagues are missing one important factor: Canada. Canada has 1/5th of the NH: based there, much higher than the other 3 "major" leagues, and is far more popular up there than the other 3.

If you add in the Canadian national TV deal, I'd say the numbers get a lot closer.