Sounds like FTA, a good share of the drops are from Europe and in late 2010, the US. With California's recent bump up to 33% renewable power by 2020, along with China & Brazil's investments, I have a feeling a fair portion of this drop will level back out by the end of the year.

Isn't there some kind of giant caldera in Yellowstone Park? It's like the geothermal equivalent of the tar sands in Alberta. I say we tap Earth's ass and power the North American grid with it. It can't be more risky than building a nuclear reactor on the coast of Japan, and it probably doesn't create any toxic waste.

Much of this in this in the states is likely do to the problems with transmission. Building a wind farm is now the easy part. Getting that power past pissed off ranchers, endangered speices, bureaucratic federal land managers, and thousands of Nimbys is another thing entirely.

HeadLever: Much of this in this in the states is likely do to the problems with transmission. Building a wind farm is now the easy part. Getting that power past pissed off ranchers, endangered speices, bureaucratic federal land managers, and thousands of Nimbys is another thing entirely.

Transmission issues will slow large, middle-of-nowhere centralized projects and projects in states that already make too much power for their outbound grid ties to handle... but there's a crapload of investment still to be made in point-of-use generation like rooftop solar or small CHP/cogeneration systems. And making power where it's used conveniently reduces the load on the grid.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: My 'green portfolio' is crap. Thanks Obama.

What's in it?

raygundan: Lt. Cheese Weasel: My 'green portfolio' is crap. Thanks Obama.

What's in it?

Old issues of High Times, mostly.

raygundan: Transmission issues will slow large, middle-of-nowhere centralized projects and projects in states that already make too much power for their outbound grid ties to handle...

Correct, but that is a pretty good chunk of the country. From one of Today's treads: Thanks for building all those tax-break funded windmills. Would you mind turning them off for a while? We have plenty of hydro power, and not enough power lines (new window)

but there's a crapload of investment still to be made in point-of-use generation like rooftop solar or small CHP/cogeneration systems.

True, but you are looking at quite a time before this will be making a significant impact on the loads of the grid.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: raygundan: Lt. Cheese Weasel: My 'green portfolio' is crap. Thanks Obama.

What's in it?

GWSC STP ASTI DSTI CPST

Only Capstone and Daystar are stocks I trust to survive.

Ah. A more direct approach might serve you better next time... when we reach our investment payback in 2015, we'll be making a steady $2k/year for the rest of the forseeable future from the PV system on our roof. About the only way it *doesn't* do this is if electricity somehow gets dramatically cheaper, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

HeadLever: True, but you are looking at quite a time before this will be making a significant impact on the loads of the grid.

Agreed. Which is why it's not unreasonable to suggest this is a good place for companies to sink some capital-- sungevity and solarcity are already using the "install solar on consumer homes and profit by charging a monthly rate a bit lower than their old electric bill" business model. Anybody with a ton of cash and some foiled renewable-energy plans could probably make a fair amount investing in a similar scheme.

I applied for a job at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory this week, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

raygundan: Which is why it's not unreasonable to suggest this is a good place for companies to sink some capital--

Yep, the growth potential for this side of energy is huge. As bettter and better (and cheaper and cheaper) technologies come on-line this will likely be a booming buisness model.

raygundan: Ah. A more direct approach might serve you better next time... when we reach our investment payback in 2015, we'll be making a steady $2k/year for the rest of the forseeable future from the PV system on our roof. About the only way it *doesn't* do this is if electricity somehow gets dramatically cheaper, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

Just think...if the government subsidized 100% of your PV system instead of 75%, you would have instant payback!

Unfortunately, the rest of us get to pay for your free lunch. On the whole, the economics still don't work.

chi_tino: Just think...if the government subsidized 100% of your PV system instead of 75%, you would have instant payback!

And pulling random stats out of your butt doesn't work that well either. The Federal tax credit is 30%. Sometimes, in addition, you can get State or utility rebates.

In areas like Hawaii, with rebates, you have a 2-year return on investment; without, 5 years. With equipment that has at the minimum, a 25-year life, you'll return your initial investment several times over.

Before installation or rebates, prices are now in the $4 a watt range. With average sun, current prices of equipment and utility power, you'll get back $306 back a year (increasing in value 3-7% a year, as utility rates increase) on a $10,000 investment. Amortized over the life of the equipment, without any incentives, and in a not all that of sunny location, you will make back every cent.

Unless you're in Alaska, or installing a sub 2kw system, it's pretty hard to *not* make the economics of today's small-scale PV work - with incentives, it's a profit maker. And with each passing month, the prices are still getting cheaper.

chi_tino: On the whole, the economics still don't work.

Without *any* subsidies (most of which are from private industry, not the government anyway), our PV system would pay for itself twice over before the warranty period expires, even assuming electric rates never rise.

I got free hamburgers for lunch to day to celebrate that the plant I work at produced 9 million solar cells this past month, so I'm getting a kick....

Raygun, MrSteve007, got a link to get a new homeowner interested in PV started?

Xlr8urfark: Raygun, MrSteve007, got a link to get a new homeowner interested in PV started?

Pick up a HomePower Magazine (new window). It's a pretty good read.

MrSteve007: Xlr8urfark: Raygun, MrSteve007, got a link to get a new homeowner interested in PV started?

Pick up a HomePower Magazine (new window). It's a pretty good read.

Thank you, sir.