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(Mother Nature Network)   All those tree-hugging, granola-chewing, dirty hippies who think growing cannabis is good for the environment are wrong   (mnn.com) divider line 203
    More: Sad, cash crops, energy intake, Humboldt counties, Humboldt State University, four-wheel-drive, kissing, hipsters, energy requirements  
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13445 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2011 at 2:35 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-04-14 03:24:28 PM

gbv23: I've come to prefer the 'spice'


img818.imageshack.us
 
2011-04-14 03:24:48 PM

HerpaDerpaDoo: I am sadly not surprised that the drug using hipsters actually believe that hemp and marijuana comprise a sustainable, environmentally and economically beneficial plant that will help America in the long run. These are the same idiots that claim Global Warming is still occuring even though all scientific evidence actually points to the opposite -- the world is gradually cooling over time. People knew marijuana was environmentally and economically detrimental a hundred years ago -- William Randolph Hearst documented the numerous harmful effects of the plant that have proven true in contemporary society.

The environmentalists are constantly trying to make naturally occuring phenomena sound like a danger to us all. This is an effort by a minority group of scientists working under the direction of idealists who want to destabilize the American economy within the next 50 years. Within that time, they plan to expand the "Green" industry they have created for jobs that perform "green" tasks and promote "green" products, and then execute a speculative attack on the industry amidst more fabricated, pseudo-scientific speculation. Once the markets are destabilized, the country will be living in fear of another recession, and it will open the doors to the short-selling of our economy to Communist entities such as China. In this way, people like Al Gore plan to profit off of the Global Warming myth.

Even the term they have concocted for their products, "Green" goods and industry practices, is meant as a subtle insult or troll to all the extreme environmentalists who blindly follow this propaganda without question. Green is a synonym for naive and inexperienced. That describes a significant population of Liberals in this country.


Long winded troll is rambling.
 
2011-04-14 03:27:23 PM

knobmaker: They grow pot outdoors in Alaska. And in Equatorial Africa. So this is incorrect.


I was speaking more to the legal issues, and the fact that most people don't have a place to safely put plants outdoors, whether in the woods or in the garden. So you just misunderstood.
 
2011-04-14 03:31:00 PM
Didn't anybody read this? http://www.slate.com/id/2290476/

It's not any better than cotton.
 
2011-04-14 03:31:36 PM

scottydoesntknow: Can you explain this coal-powered sky light or a link to it?


The contraction "isn't" means "is not". Read the original post more carefully.

When I think sky-light I think of a small unnecessary window in the ceiling that provides very little light (yet always lets the sun hit you right in the eyes in the living room). If you're gonna make the whole roof a skylight, then you're still exposing it to flyovers. If you have to tint the glass to make it more opaque, you're obstructing sunlight and defeating the purpose.

That depends on how far you are from the skylight. A quick review of solid angles might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle

To summarize for the non-technical folks: if you are very far from the skylight, it will appear to be very small. If you are very close, it will be big. Put your plants closer to it, and they'll get more light. If you also get one that "bubbles out" a bit & faces south, it'll get quite a lot of light.

The IR signature that the cops key into (to differentiate pot from other plants) can be modified by the correct IR reflective/absorptive coatings on the glass/plastic. Many windows already have IR coatings for energy efficiency reasons, so it's just a matter of doing your homework, e.g.: http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/37933/1/IND20702329.pdf
 
2011-04-14 03:33:35 PM
HerpaDerpaDoo:

Masterful!

But srsly, who doesn't freaking know that emulating sunlight with electricity takes energy? I mean, just the article headline itself "When it comes to energy consumption, 'homegrown' (cannabis) isn't green" is straight out of the Department of the Blatantly Obvious. It doesn't mean that growing and using cannabis (manufacturing) isn't green when done properly.

If you recycle your aluminum cans by throwing them out your car window it's not green, either.
 
2011-04-14 03:33:36 PM
"Spice" is now illegal in the UK, used to be able to buy it around the corner.

JWH-18 was apparently the once legal, now not chemical.

Bastards. Who do they think they're helping?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-018
 
2011-04-14 03:33:40 PM
Since when has anyone argued that growing anything indoors was good for the environment?

HerpaDerpaDoo indeed!

/thinks marijuana should be grown outdoors everywhere
 
2011-04-14 03:37:55 PM

BlippityBleep: HerpaDerpaDoo:

Masterful!

But srsly, who doesn't freaking know that emulating sunlight with electricity takes energy? I mean, just the article headline itself "When it comes to energy consumption, 'homegrown' (cannabis) isn't green" is straight out of the Department of the Blatantly Obvious. It doesn't mean that growing and using cannabis (manufacturing) isn't green when done properly.

If you recycle your aluminum cans by throwing them out your car window it's not green, either.


I find that the best way to generate light in a "green" (renewable) way is to burn large quantities of whale oil in a blazing bonfire. It may take a few dozen porpoises per bowl, but the quality is top-notch.

theinfosphere.org

/canned is okay, but you can't beat fresh-squeezed
 
2011-04-14 03:38:55 PM

dk47: http://www.slate.com/id/2290476/


Did YOU read it? The article states it's better than cotton on water and land requirements, though it's a bit higher on energy use. Overall it likely comes out slightly ahead.
The article only states that hemp isn't the be all end all of textiles like some would try to make you believe (i.e. growing hemp in the U.S. isn't going to save the world like some hippies seem to think).
 
2011-04-14 03:39:47 PM

dk47: Didn't anybody read this? http://www.slate.com/id/2290476/

It's not any better than cotton.

Overall, organic cotton required less energy than organic hemp, but the margin was fairly small.


The "fabric of our lives" needs approximately twice as much territory as hemp per ton of finished textile, the land-use miser of the bunch.

Cotton is the big loser, once again, when it comes to water. The cotton plant needs about 50 percent more water per season than hemp, which can grow with little irrigation.


When you add processing into the equation, cotton uses more than four times as much water as hemp.


So, cotton uses twice as much land and at least half again as much water as hemp, but slightly more energy to process. The author pretty clearly understates the margin of benefit here, but they certainly don't say it's the same as cotton.
 
2011-04-14 03:40:10 PM
Obvious tag was getting high.

/of course growing it inside is bad for the environment. Tobacco is one of the worst crops to grow outside, but whatever stopped them?
 
2011-04-14 03:41:33 PM

culebra: So, cotton uses twice as much land and at least half again as much water as hemp, but slightly moreless energy to process. The author pretty clearly understates the margin of benefit here, but they certainly don't say it's the same as cotton.


FTFM
 
2011-04-14 03:41:46 PM
Most people who want pot legalized just want to get high. That's why it isn't legal yet. Saying you want something made legal to get F***ed up isn't going to work and their other arguements are stupid because they thought them up while they were F***ed up. Research is homing in on a pill that does what medical marijuana does w/o the side effects of being high; which is what a good medication should do. Give relief while you go on with your life. That will end the whole it's medcine issue by the stoners.
 
2011-04-14 03:43:06 PM

jshine: I find that the best way to generate light in a "green" (renewable) way is to burn large quantities of whale oil in a blazing bonfire. It may take a few dozen porpoises per bowl, but the quality is top-notch.



/canned is okay, but you can't beat fresh-squeezed


I prefer non-dolphin safe tuna, too. I thought the dolphin was why it's considered brain food.
 
2011-04-14 03:43:35 PM

dk47: It's not any better than cotton.


It is more cold tolerant than cotton.
 
2011-04-14 03:45:42 PM

BayouGodess: Saying you want something made legal to get F***ed up isn't going to work

...

I'll drink to that!

marketshotnyc.com
 
2011-04-14 03:46:06 PM

BayouGodess: That's why it isn't legal yet.


We have de facto legalization in Oregon and California. It's also great that someone is finally developing a CBD pill. Too bad many illnesses preclude the use of pills, patches and other hard to gauge doses.

I know that separating the medical issue and the recreational issue is something you're really into, but out here on the West coast, that ship has sailed.

Find a new issue to agonize over.
 
2011-04-14 03:46:43 PM

fireclown: dk47: It's not any better than cotton.

It is more cold tolerant than cotton.


Sturdier fabric in general as well.
 
2011-04-14 03:47:13 PM

culebra: Because they don't know what the fark they're doing. On average, indoor is going to have a higher concentration of glandular trichomes and so a higher potency by weight.

However, I'd argue that the best cannabis in the world is properly grown greenhouse or outdoor. There is simply no way for an HID to compete with the benefits of real sun and it's effects on cannabinoid production. So long as you can keep the rain and wind from farking you over, you're half way to a crop that is comparably potent to indoor, but much better tasting.


The "high quality" indoor stuff is way farking over-rated. The club I go to has been giving lab results for THC tests for a few years now. I stopped honing in on the ones that test really high (highest I ever bought was labeled 27% THC - most are 0.1% CBD) and simply go for what has the best look, cure, and smell. Often these rate lowish, 15% or so - but they seem a lot better to me.

Ergo, I'd rather have some nice straightforward homegrown than ooodles of techno weed.

As for wind and rain, out west here the rain is a non-issue for the growing season.
 
2011-04-14 03:50:04 PM

BayouGodess: Most people who want pot legalized just want to get high. That's why it isn't legal yet. Saying you want something made legal to get F***ed up isn't going to work and their other arguements are stupid because they thought them up while they were F***ed up. Research is homing in on a pill that does what medical marijuana does w/o the side effects of being high; which is what a good medication should do. Give relief while you go on with your life. That will end the whole it's medcine issue by the stoners.


Why do you have a say in the choices of people who fancy getting a bit, or a lot stoned?

Is it your business in any way?
 
2011-04-14 03:51:51 PM
No, it isn't. You're just bothered that someone else might be having more fun than you.
 
2011-04-14 03:52:39 PM

Mr Rusty Shackleford: As for wind and rain, out west here the rain is a non-issue for the growing season.


I know the west is a vast place so you might live in one of the more arid areas, but I've lived out here my whole life and rain in September and October (ie., "harvest time")is generally a given except in the most rare of Indian Summers. Beyond mid-October in much of Humboldt, Mendocino, Trinity etc., you're basically praying that your plants don't get split/knocked over by wind and rain or decimated by mold.
 
2011-04-14 03:52:49 PM
real hippies use solar collectors and fibre-optics to pipe real sunlight into their grow-show
 
2011-04-14 03:52:58 PM
And trust me, most of them are.
 
2011-04-14 03:55:01 PM

Burchill: And trust me, most of them are.


Most of who are what?

What are you smoking?
 
2011-04-14 03:55:46 PM

jshine: That depends on how far you are from the skylight. A quick review of solid angles might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle

To summarize for the non-technical folks: if you are very far from the skylight, it will appear to be very small. If you are very close, it will be big. Put your plants closer to it, and they'll get more light. If you also get one that "bubbles out" a bit & faces south, it'll get quite a lot of light


So you want to take a house, basically remove the roof (grow ops can span entire rooms/floors) and install a giant, curved sky-light. Basically make it a greenhouse with four concrete walls. Again I don't see the viability in this because it's so farking obvious when you're entire roof is domed glass. And what's the ceiling height going to be if you choose to use a smaller, less obvious skylights? 3 feet? Good luck getting in there to water/trim/harvest.
 
2011-04-14 03:55:56 PM
Hemp, hemp is good for the enviroment. Not MJ grown under high intensity lights in your closet.

/bet subby is fun at parties
 
2011-04-14 04:02:25 PM
Researchers got paid to spend a few years "researching" growing pot indoors. Nice work if you can get it
 
2011-04-14 04:04:35 PM

BayouGodess: Most people who want pot legalized just want to get high. That's why it isn't legal yet. Saying you want something made legal to get F***ed up isn't going to work and their other arguements are stupid because they thought them up while they were F***ed up. Research is homing in on a pill that does what medical marijuana does w/o the side effects of being high; which is what a good medication should do. Give relief while you go on with your life. That will end the whole it's medcine issue by the stoners.


or you could mind your own business.

don't like the herb, then don't consume it. by supporting canabis prohibition you are making a choice for me that you have no right to make about something that doesn't affect you at all.
 
2011-04-14 04:07:03 PM

BayouGodess: Most people who want pot legalized just want to get high. That's why it isn't legal yet. Saying you want something made legal to get F***ed up isn't going to work and their other arguements are stupid because they thought them up while they were F***ed up. Research is homing in on a pill that does what medical marijuana does w/o the side effects of being high; which is what a good medication should do. Give relief while you go on with your life. That will end the whole it's medcine issue by the stoners.


What is the necessity of alcoholic drinks? They were prohibited at one point and then the law was repealed. For many of the same reasons the anti-marijuana legislation should be repealed NOW.

Or do you suggest that alcohol should be illegal just because people mostly use it to get farked up?

Here's a newsflash for you: It's NOT illegal just because people use it to get farked up anyway. Read the history. The feds use that propaganda to get people to back the legislation (which is falling out of favor with more and more people).
And where is your citation that MOST people who want pot legalized want to get high? Even when a whole state votes to legalize it the feds won't allow it. It could be voted on federally and the feds would most likely not allow it. And you think the ONLY people going to the polls are potheads? Unlikely.
I'm not a pothead nor do I even indulge. Many of the people in this thread that want it legalized likely aren't, and most of the people I know that don't believe it should be banned don't indulge at all. But keep thinking ONLY stoners want weed to be legalized.
 
2011-04-14 04:07:33 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I've been using indoor grow lights for winter tomatoes. Looking at my electric bills, I'd have to say I'm stimulating the economy, and that's more important than a little energy conservation right now.

They were the most expensive damn tomatoes you ever saw.

/won't do that again


Dude...you holding?
 
2011-04-14 04:07:42 PM

Digitalstrange: Researchers got paid to spend a few years "researching" growing pot indoors. Nice work if you can get it


Pfft, how do you think they "measured" the potency?
 
2011-04-14 04:10:46 PM

Ihaveanevilparrot: Even when a whole state votes to legalize it


Meant to say when a state's majority votes. Obviously the whole state population didn't vote to legalize. I figure most people would understand what I meant, but yeah. You know, lest someone picks my comment apart due to a piddly little mistake.
 
2011-04-14 04:12:42 PM

scottydoesntknow: So you want to take a house, basically remove the roof (grow ops can span entire rooms/floors) and install a giant, curved sky-light. Basically make it a greenhouse with four concrete walls. Again I don't see the viability in this because it's so farking obvious when you're entire roof is domed glass. And what's the ceiling height going to be if you choose to use a smaller, less obvious skylights? 3 feet? Good luck getting in there to water/trim/harvest.


If you did turn a room into a conservatory/greenhouse, you wouldn't need to put the plants close to the glass. In that case, the windows would be so large that they'd subtend a large solid angle from any location in the room. In that case, you could just leave the plants on the floor.

...but if you're devoting an entire house/floor/etc. to growing pot, then that's going to be fairly disruptive to the home no matter how you handle it. With electrical lighting you'd have an enormous heat-disposal problem (all those thousands of watts have to go somewhere). If that's what you're proposing, the choice isn't between a good solution and a bad one, it's a choice between two bad solutions. Also, in that case, you're opening yourself up to discovery by thermal infrared, which is *much* harder to block than the shortwave IR that's characteristic of the cannabis leaf.

But hey, do whatever you like -- far be it from me to rain on your parade.
 
2011-04-14 04:13:07 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I've been using indoor grow lights for winter tomatoes. Looking at my electric bills, I'd have to say I'm stimulating the economy, and that's more important than a little energy conservation right now.

They were the most expensive damn tomatoes you ever saw.

/won't do that again


Hey, just grow them hydroponically in your fish tank like some people I know. Then you can claim your growing them to keep your fish healthy by reducing nitrate levels :p . Or you could even grow some big fish in there to eat and say you're trying to contribute to sustainable food consumption...
 
2011-04-14 04:14:15 PM

Ihaveanevilparrot: hydroponically


Aquaponically. Damn, apparently I can't form a coherent sentence today.
 
2011-04-14 04:14:16 PM
Yeah, nothing green about it other than the color of the product. Many of the growers dump their mite infested growing medium along the road too. Makes for a nasty mess and is putting their chemical fertilizers and insecticides in the watershed.

I believe if it were legalized, more of it would come outdoors where it belongs. That would help alleviate this problem at least partly.

/live in Humboldt
//don't grow
///know many who do
 
2011-04-14 04:14:20 PM

culebra: Or you could just use this thing:


That's an awesome image!
 
2011-04-14 04:17:56 PM
Well, I did 5 minutes exploring on the internets and this is what I came up with. If you grow outside, there are a ton of ecologically safe fertilizers just like with other plants. If you grow inside, and you've got the start-up cash, you spend more money turning on a few lightbulbs in your home with very little to no infared signature. However, herein lies the problem. If you focus on hippies, they typically don't have very much money and are as prone as Mexicans growing in California not to give a fark. I'm glad that only hippies smoke marijuana :)
 
2011-04-14 04:22:30 PM

EditorialSpace: However, herein lies the problem. If you focus on hippies, they typically don't have very much money and are as prone as Mexicans growing in California not to give a fark. I'm glad that only hippies smoke marijuana :)


Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken, because plenty of business people or people with regular careers, outwardly reputable acting people, indulge in various illegal drugs, and not even just something as benign as pot.

My dad used to know a lawyer that would go to amsterdam specifically to smoke good pot legally, shoot up heroin, and buy hookers.
Well, then again maybe lawyers don't count as reputable professionals to most people....:\
 
2011-04-14 04:23:02 PM
What about LED lighting? Supposedly, it's the most energy efficient lighting style for growing anything. Low energy usage (avoiding probable cause warrants), low heat output (handy for avoiding thermographic scan justification for a raid)aaaand the wavelength of both the blue and red lights match the light absorption spectrum of at least one popular plant.

But yeah, if we COULD grow outside without the fear of becoming second class citizens, then that WOULD be much better for all concerned.
 
2011-04-14 04:24:54 PM

BurnShrike: Burchill: And trust me, most of them are.

Most of who are what?

What are you smoking?


"someone else might be having more fun than you."

I had to backtrack being honest.
 
2011-04-14 04:27:22 PM
FTFA: Via [The New York Times]

/makes Herpa look like a noob-troll
 
2011-04-14 04:27:30 PM

SenoreVurm: What about LED lighting? Supposedly, it's the most energy efficient lighting style for growing anything. Low energy usage (avoiding probable cause warrants), low heat output (handy for avoiding thermographic scan justification for a raid)aaaand the wavelength of both the blue and red lights match the light absorption spectrum of at least one popular plant.

But yeah, if we COULD grow outside without the fear of becoming second class citizens, then that WOULD be much better for all concerned.


Read above, several of us mentioned LED and the reasons people do/don't use them :) .
LEDs are a good choice long term, but many are waiting for the initial investment cost to go down.
 
2011-04-14 04:28:34 PM

scottydoesntknow: Red_Fox: Hey potheads....maybe you're too high to realize this but there's this thing called the sun. Use it.

Hey genius, maybe you're too stupid to realize this, but there's this thing called prohibition. It's currently being used.

Basically what it means is growing an illegal plant (may be legal by California's laws, but the Fed/DEA will still bust you) outside is a stupid idea because they can find it. An indoor operation is at least shielded from outside intrusion.

/If you're gonna do it, you need to spike your electricity the second you move in and keep it that high. Electricity company just assumes you like to have all lights and TV's on.


Buy a hot tub and park it out back. Never turn it on, or even fill it.
 
2011-04-14 04:29:24 PM
What is the environmental impact of our $40 Billion a year drug war?

Doesn't the DEA must consume a lot of gas by fueling its convoys of suvs for its military-style raids?

Doesn't it consume a lot of energy to imprison the millions of non-violated people convicted for possession of marijuana?

Aren't the helicopters that Sikorsky lobbied congress to fund in order to fight the "drug war" in South America gas-guzzlers?

Don't the 87 DEA offices in 63 countries consume a lot of energy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/world/26wikidrugs.html (new window)
 
2011-04-14 04:30:43 PM
After more than forty years of Federal Marijuana Prohibition, we now have millions of daily marijuana users. Obviously the prohibition *doesn't* stop people smoking and never will.

Jeez. I'm so glad marijuana isn't addictive.
 
2011-04-14 04:31:52 PM

Ihaveanevilparrot: EditorialSpace: However, herein lies the problem. If you focus on hippies, they typically don't have very much money and are as prone as Mexicans growing in California not to give a fark. I'm glad that only hippies smoke marijuana :)

Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken, because plenty of business people or people with regular careers, outwardly reputable acting people, indulge in various illegal drugs, and not even just something as benign as pot.

My dad used to know a lawyer that would go to amsterdam specifically to smoke good pot legally, shoot up heroin, and buy hookers.
Well, then again maybe lawyers don't count as reputable professionals to most people....:\


---

There once was a dog named Fud
Who couldn't grow a thing in the Mud
But he opened his eyes
And What a Surprise
When he read how to grow in Rosebud
 
2011-04-14 04:33:53 PM

culebra: I know the west is a vast place so you might live in one of the more arid areas, but I've lived out here my whole life and rain in September and October (ie., "harvest time")is generally a given except in the most rare of Indian Summers. Beyond mid-October in much of Humboldt, Mendocino, Trinity etc., you're basically praying that your plants don't get split/knocked over by wind and rain or decimated by mold.


Siskiyou Co, so pretty close to you with similar conditions. Friends of my family living even further north in southern Oregon have been growing outdoors as long as I can remember. Their smoke is pretty good. Not sure when they finish by, but almost certainly the first week of October.

For most folks, that kind of sized operation is fine.
 
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