I was in accounting and finance recruiting and this is absolutely true. The biggest struggle we had was finding qualified candidates to fill the jobs we had. There wasn't a terrible shortage of applicants, but there were very few whose resumes were good enough to even bother calling, let alone interviewing.

Those numbers aren't out of line. The last time I looked for a job in the paper resume world (as a mechanical engineer):

1. sent out 200 letters in 100 days
2. received 190 "no response"
3. received 7 polite "no thank you" letters
4. got 3 interviews
5. took the first job offered

The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague. They sometimes don't even tell you the name of the company, just that they want someone with "computer skills" or "industry experience" or who is "good with people". Its hard to tailor an application to stand out with such vague requirements.

-The posters are usually staffing companies or the like. Usually they tend to hire for temp positions or low level admin stuff. If you want a "real job", even if its not an office job, then you are probably out of luck.

-The ease of applying is both the blessing and curse of the system. You may be a qualified applicant but unless you send in an application rating yourself as 10 in every area the minute the job is posted then its likely you will get lost in the pile of dozens, perhaps even hundreds or thousands of applicants. So while it is often a numbers game while job hunting it can actually be beneficial to find the companies whose application process is quite complicated and deters people who just want any job they can get from applying.

Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

PghThermal: 1. sent out 200 letters in 100 days
2. received 190 "no response"

Yeah, I've sent out hundreds of applications, both electronic and real-fancy-paper, and can count on two hands the number of acknowledgements I've received in return. Wasn't like that even just a few years ago.

It really is a hearty, "fark you" to every applicant not to bother even acknowledging their submission. I mean, fercryinoutloud, an auto-generated reply is nearly common human decency, is definitely better than nothing and is virtually free.

Adding to the frustration of it all, I only apply to jobs for which I feel qualified, with specifically-written and custom-tailored cover letters and resumes... in hopes that maybe, maybe this time, maybe this once, a human being will read the application and I'll strike a chord of some kind. But I know I'm lost in a vast sea of applicant-spamming and thus likely to be filtp0wn3d without any consideration at all. Or the job's already filled. Or never existed. Or it's a scam. Or. Or. Or.

Then you add in the awesome feedback you get from employers / employed friends / self-appointed "experts" -- "put a lot of effort in the cover letter! It's the only way to get through!" right before hearing, "don't even bother with a cover letter... I just tear them off and drop them in the trash!" "It's who you know! Network!" right after hearing, "if you don't apply through the formal [and often mis- or under-configured] HRIS system, we can't even consider you." And on and on.

So you have to do it all. In the vague and ever diminishing hope that somehow, sometime, you'll wind up being the perfect, frictionless orb that flies through the process without a snag and you actually wind up with a paycheck. Which may disappear in a few months at the whim of the market, management, or the tea leaves.

Adding further frustration: That many people complain of their lazy, unproductive, fark-lurking, call-in-sick, etc cow-orkers. While there are hundreds of qualified applicants for any good opening. Gah.

Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

You used a whole lot of words to say, "HR people."

Also, entry level jobs should not require two years of experience. Come on. Entry level.

I have 5 years of experience with Windows 7, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

Also, hate job listings that are posted by recruiting agencies.

The other thing that they left out was most of these companies with tons of postings are scams.

You have the douchebag companies such as SetFocus which advertise for job openings on Career builder and Monster, only to truly be a shoddy programming prep school with insane tuition rates.

Then you have the turd sandwiches such as Aerotek CE who just hoard resumes. Their business model is to give vetted resume pools to companies, the problem is, they just simply give them access to their resume database. What this does is makes it so that company has to pay Aerotek if they ever hire anyone in their database, regardless of how said company came across your resume. It's a farked up business model, and it could probably hurt someones chances down the road of getting a job.

The other problem is, companies like to auto-post positions for whatever reason (gathering personal information?), even if they aren't hiring

\Tried applying to Lowe's, for several different (no experience) positions, over a few days. Got back "we are currently not looking for ___ at the moment, try applying for another position". And I still see them listed on the job site today wtf.

And yes, companies expect unrealistic expectations. Experience needed for a telemarketing/restaurant job? How is anyone supposed to get a job in the first place if they all want 5 years experience for something stupid?

MBZ321: The other problem is, companies like to auto-post positions for whatever reason (gathering personal information?), even if they aren't hiring

\Tried applying to Lowe's, for several different (no experience) positions, over a few days. Got back "we are currently not looking for ___ at the moment, try applying for another position". And I still see them listed on the job site today wtf.

And yes, companies expect unrealistic expectations. Experience needed for a telemarketing/restaurant job? How is anyone supposed to get a job in the first place if they all want 5 years experience for something stupid?

Especially if you're a pretty niche business in the first place, how are people supposed to have experience?

No, nobody I know has experience in offshore oil rig liability insurance.

wee:
We have two openings listed online, with two different job places. We've had hundreds of applications in the last few weeks, and only a few that are from people that appear qualified. One of them never replied to our email for a phone interview. Two others had padded their resume so much that they couldn't pronounce some of the technologies they claim to be an expert with. We had one person come in for an interview. He didn't work out.

That said, I'm not going to waste my time replying to every single person that applies. The ones we contact I'll reply to, of course.

I'm convinced there's a service somewhere that will spam your resume, regardless of how your qualifications relate to the job opening. Because 98% of the ones that come in are absolutely worthless. Actually, they're worse than worthless, because you have to waste time going through them.


The way to work the system for employers now is not to wait for the applications to come to you. It is to go out and find them on all of the job boards and communicate directly with them first. All of the small businesses I know are now filling staffing holes they don't fill with internal references by proactively searching for qualified candidates on sites like Monster. Many companies have trouble with this because all of history had it backwards, as there was no real place to find qualified candidates, but this is different now and younger HR folks are taking advantage of it.


One position we have open now is entry-level. We're looking for some experience and some schooling. Having two years experience in a field is still in the "starting out" phase. Sorry to break it to you man.

The last entry level position we hired for, we wound up with a guy with a CompSci degree and 18 months experience working for the NSA. He's been great, but he's been learning on the job pretty heavily. I can't count the number of times I've heard "I wish they taught this in school..."


That's junior level, not entry level. Entry level means just that.

***

FTFA: As it turns out, many companies aren't thrilled with the online job boards either. Many of the applicants who apply aren't even remotely qualified, said Lorrie Ray, director of membership development for the Mountain States Employers Council, a nonprofit membership services organization based in Denver.

Yea, because the qualifications are shiat. Saw plenty of these when I was looking:

Mid level Engineer
-Require 5-7 years industry experience
-Require Security Clearance and/or all applicable certification
-Travel required (50%)
-Require knowledge x,y,z to expert level
-Pay: Entry level wage

Well, you're not going to find very many qualified candidates that want to make 35k for a job that should pay 60k+ based on average wages while also having borderline senior level qualifications and narrow industry experience definitions and/or asinine certification requirements. You don't need a CCIE for a job that should require a CCNA

SFSailor: Yeah, I've sent out hundreds of applications, both electronic and real-fancy-paper, and can count on two hands the number of acknowledgements I've received in return. Wasn't like that even just a few years ago.

It really is a hearty, "fark you" to every applicant not to bother even acknowledging their submission. I mean, fercryinoutloud, an auto-generated reply is nearly common human decency, is definitely better than nothing and is virtually free.

We post jobs for a people to make breakfast and clean rooms at our B&B. Last time, I got 125 responses from people with skills that range from "cant speek Engrish" to some people with advanced degrees.

I spend many hours wading through the applications, despite the fact that I take great pains to describe the job in detail and also explain what we are looking for. Despite that, many people simply shotgun their resume to every ad, frequently not reading it.

I refuse to take the time and consideration to respond to these people with even a simple "thank you". If you can't be courteous of my time, I'm certainly not going to waste any more being polite to you.

YixilTesiphon: Also, entry level jobs should not require two years of experience. Come on. Entry level.

I noticed that a lot when I was looking for my first job out of college. Entry level jobs that paid entry level salaries required two to three years prior experience. My reaction was always, "if I had two to three years prior experience, why would I be looking for an entry level job?"

I think HR departments do this so in order to cut down on applications from people who they would never hire in a million years.

last two jobs I've had including my current position, where both good jobs which required a fairly specific skillset and at least a few years of experience and a related degree. In both instances, the employer contacted me because of my resume posted on Monser.

Hard to believe but just posting your resume does seem to work.

If I were in HR, that would probably be the way that I would seek to fill a position, rather than wade through the resumes sent in. Do key word searches of people's skills/background/etc.

Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

I found the job I have now through an online job site, and its description was hopelessly vague--"attention to detail", "strong writing and editing skills", etc., and didn't even list the company name (a BIG red flag). I was almost certain it was a scam, but I was so desperate by that point I applied anyway. Ended up getting a response almost immediately, and got the job--turned out to be a relatively-cushy government job.

Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Craigslist is still a legitimate job finding tool, but with monster, careerbuilder, and the like, most of the jobs are posted by recruiters who are just looking for resumes to send to the employer. So it's a good idea to update your resume every day on Monster (just re-save it so that the 'date last modified' date is always current), but it's futile to actually submit your resume to any of the jobs. Just let the recruiters contact wade through the resume database and contact you.

I find the lack of quality opportunities to be more centered around HR drones that aren't good at their jobs, assessing talent, skills and abilities, and or failing at understanding what it is they're hiring for.

If you're in HR and wonder why your turn over is high, and you can't find quality employees..because there isn't any quality in those employees you have looking for new ones.

For any job seekers, I recommend the book "What Color is Your Parachute", if only for the insight on the disconnect between how businesses prefer to hire people versus how people prefer to look for jobs.

Most businesses don't want to hunt for an employee. They don't want to wade through resumes from online or newspaper postings. They just want a qualified person to fall into their lap.

Most job seekers abhor making initial contact with perspective employers and instead scour online and newspaper listings for a job opening.

The most effective approach is via networking, wherein there is at least someone vouching for you.

In the absence of that, however, the second-most effective search, according to the book, is to seek out the businesses you might want to work at and either visit them in person or at least call them. Approach them with a practiced "elevator pitch" covering your abilities and what you can do for the business.

The least effective approach is to use an online job site or newspaper ad.

/my two cents, anyway.

Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Nuclear Monk: Most businesses don't want to hunt for an employee.

Right, HR people not actually doing their job.. all while they look at things like gaps in employment and call applicants 'lazy' as a means to disregard them as potential hires.

bhcompy: Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Who knows that off the top of their head? I'm sure I could figure it out.

Azz: bhcompy: Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Who knows that off the top of their head? I'm sure I could figure it out.

That's what they all say.

/problem isn't so much the translation, it's getting it to work with the applications too

bhcompy: Azz: bhcompy: Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Who knows that off the top of their head? I'm sure I could figure it out.

That's what they all say.

/problem isn't so much the translation, it's getting it to work with the applications too

Yup. That's what they all say.

Azz: bhcompy: Azz: bhcompy: Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Who knows that off the top of their head? I'm sure I could figure it out.

That's what they all say.

/problem isn't so much the translation, it's getting it to work with the applications too

Yup. That's what they all say.

No email or location on profile. Post one up and I'll send you some info

wee: One position we have open now is entry-level. We're looking for some experience and some schooling. Having two years experience in a field is still in the "starting out" phase. Sorry to break it to you man.

Oh, go fark yourself.

Entry level = No experience.
Calling it anything else is just a way to short-change experienced workers.

Protip: If you can't find any "qualified" applicants, the pay is too low or the requirements are too high. In this economy, you're just spouting bullshiat if you say you can't find anyone.

I am seeing a lot of liars in this thread, which in itself validates why none of you are being offered jobs. Who wants a liar working for them?

You have to stop blaming the government, Monster.com, the "job market" and HR departments for your lack of skills and networking prowess. Don't you guys get it? You won't be given jack squat by blaming everyone but YOU for YOUR failures in life.

No wonder this country is circling the toilet bowl.

The topic of this post interested me, but I have this habit of skipping the article and just reading the comments to see what "real people" have to say. Perhaps there's a market here for real people to directly find jobs/employees. Everyone sits on fark at work anyway. Farkjobs.com?

Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Any advice for someone trying to break in to that type of position (dba or even analyst)?

This just in: It's hard to stand out as a qualified and desirable individual when you choose a forum that has the highest count of persons seeking the same goal as you.

More from the Romero Files as developments warrant.

wee: One position we have open now is entry-level. We're looking for some experience and some schooling. Having two years experience in a field is still in the "starting out" phase. Sorry to break it to you man.

While I appreciate what you're saying, "entry level" does not mean "you need work experience". "Entry level" means "you have the education but not the experience, which we will provide for you in exchange for labor."

2 years of experience is the start of mid-level experience. Not "entry level".

I've gotten almost all my jobs online.

When I lost my job a couple years ago during the crash, I wrote down as many company names as possible on a sheet of paper. Then I went to all their websites and looked at the "Careers" area. That coupled with dropping an updated resume on Dice.com(IT Field) seem to always work for me.

Now that I've made more connections and have more experience, I can usually rely on a friend or ex-coworker to help me move on.

I'm sure it helps that I view interviewing as a fun skill to learn.

wee: I partially disagree. Two years is about half the time needed to start becoming junior-level. Of course, it depends greatly on the field.

Then advertise as junior level, not "entry level".

wee: We have very certain requirements, and a lot of resumes that don't even come anywhere close. Hence, one "qualified" applicant in a few hundred resumes seems to be about the going rate these days. We can afford to wait, so we're able to be picky. Hopefully the guy coming in this week interviews well.

Again, go fark yourself.

Entry level = No experience.

Seen enough of this bullshiat while looking for a job to know it for what it is. If you can't find any "qualified" applicants, the pay is too low or the requirements are too high. In this economy, you're just spouting bullshiat if you say you can't find anyone. Stop pretending the difficulty is anything other than you.

bhcompy: Azz: Carousel Beast: Azz: Cyborg77: The trouble I see with Craigslist and even Monster/Career Builder job postings is three fold:

-The job opening descriptions are vague.

Those are always scams

In my field (DBA) that's actually the norm - employers, by and large, have no idea what they need and list everything a DBA could potentially do as their criteria.

Funny I'm going via that route as well. Just got the MCITP sql 08 cert.

know any *ahem* dba openings? ;)

You know how to migrate a SQL Anywhere database to MSSQL?

Those SQL Anywhere Databases are supposed to be portable. The MSSQL db export wizard should be able to handle it; unless you hacked the metadata that would take some finesse.

2 years is mid level experience if you are a one term President.

/6 years experience in my field
//can't wait to retire in 2 years

bhcompy why is your company converting to mssql from SQL anywhere?
They don't exactly solve the same problem sets.

able:
Those SQL Anywhere Databases are supposed to be portable. The MSSQL db export wizard should be able to handle it; unless you hacked the metadata that would take some finesse.

It's not just the data, it's configuring it to accept data from a program that's writing in Watcom SQL and store it correctly. Apparently there are some problems with this in practice.

able: bhcompy why is your company converting to mssql from SQL anywhere?
They don't exactly solve the same problem sets.

I imagine licensing cost and the fact that SA puts everything into a simple portable db file is a large part of that. Exploration of other dbms's comes as the base grows

mohron: 2 years is mid level experience if you are a one term President.

/6 years experience in my field
//can't wait to retire in 2 years

Do you really think that people normally stay in a job for 8 years these days?

There's very little, skill and experience-wise in an IT sub-field that you can't pick up in a couple years. Everything after that is just variations on a theme you already know. It's the initial skills that take a while to learn (that is, how to use the tools in the box).

JohDHJ: Question, was the job posting vague about experiences?

Not in the least. But people simply do not read what is required, or assume the poster didn't really mean it. The "one click apply' the job boards have makes it worse. And this also hurts qualified applicants because they can easily be overlooked while the recruiter deletes the Wal Mart cashiers and teachers who are sick of teaching.

Sergeant Grumbles: wee: We have very certain requirements, and a lot of resumes that don't even come anywhere close. Hence, one "qualified" applicant in a few hundred resumes seems to be about the going rate these days. We can afford to wait, so we're able to be picky. Hopefully the guy coming in this week interviews well.

Again, go fark yourself.

Entry level = No experience.

Seen enough of this bullshiat while looking for a job to know it for what it is. If you can't find any "qualified" applicants, the pay is too low or the requirements are too high. In this economy, you're just spouting bullshiat if you say you can't find anyone. Stop pretending the difficulty is anything other than you.

You may be shocked to learn that in certain fields we do not have a surplus of unemployed people. In accounting unemployment is under 5%.

I'm starting the job hunt now after changing from the radio business to nursing(lpn). Most everything is online..nothing in the papers. Its a definte crapshoot..
/lpn in June
//any openings in the Cincinnati area?