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(Yahoo)   Gov Christie proposes making teaching high school more like BEING back in high school by turning teacher evaluations into a popularity contest   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 137
    More: Asinine, art teachers, njea, school vouchers, student achievement, pushback, school superintendents, teacher evaluations, teachers  
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3830 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Apr 2011 at 2:26 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-04-08 02:59:22 PM

Itstoearly: James F. Campbell: Hey, I know what will improve our education system: let's cut teacher's wages. That way, only people who really farking enjoy being treated like shiat will teach!

JerseyTim: Seems to me like they're doing OK.

Whoa, are you sure that chart's accurate? It shows Mississippi of all places as having a higher percentage of high school graduates going directly to college than any other state in the union -- 77.4%.

How about creating a system where teachers can get raises based on their merits and performance, instead of all teachers getting the same pay increase regardless of performance because they are in a union that demands it?


Imagine for a moment you make a product. For our purposes, this widget can be small plastic toys, because we're marketing to children. You get everything made on a budget, you spend hours constructing creative ways to market the product, and you sell loads. Now imagine that your pay is determined by how well the children play with the toys: You did your job, you made the product and sold it with instructions, but your salary is going to be determined by how many children use their imaginations properly with it or throw it against the wall or drool all over it.

Having your pay based on how stupid or smart kids are sucks.
 
2011-04-08 02:59:23 PM

GAT_00: SpeshilEdjukashin: The headline is a little misleading.

He laid out new details of his plan for teacher evaluations, basing them equally on student achievement and teacher performance in the classroom

No, doesn't sound like it is. What the headline doesn't show is that this is a guy who expects to have honest negotiations while openly calling them thugs and bullies. There's no reason to work with someone like that, because they have no intention of compromising. You're not getting concessions from him. So what's the point in negotiating?


Yes cause NJEA heads who issue death threats on their facebook page are in no way thugs and bullies.

The teachers are paying maybe 1.5% for their benefits....Christie wants them to pay 30% towards benfits....would concessions mean the NJEA is in favor of meeting the govenor halfway and paying 15% towards their benefits?

Did you say no?

then stfu and mind your own business liz lemon.
 
2011-04-08 03:03:06 PM
TimonC346

And by the way, when I talk with friends who make money, they don't usually factor in their Insurance costs into it

Well, as an employer and a tax payer I can assure you that people who cut the checks sure as shiat do!
 
2011-04-08 03:03:25 PM
Implementing this scheme will leave only dumb teachers in schools.

After all, the controversy over teaching evaluation in schools can only lead to an intelligent resign.
 
2011-04-08 03:03:46 PM

sweetmelissa31: NJ happens to have some of the best public schools in the country.


Very true, my property taxes will attest to this.

/also good schools = good home values
 
2011-04-08 03:04:59 PM

SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with having a thread like this on Fark is that nobody outside of New Jersey knows just how screwed up the education system is here. Things need to change. Christie wants to change them.


We may not know what's it's like there, but it's farked everywhere so we can realistically speculate.
 
2011-04-08 03:06:19 PM
I'm a product of a New Jersey high school. From there I went to NC State and found that I was miles ahead of my NC classmates. My 100 level classes were a rehash of stuff from my sophomore and junior years of high school.

If anything, NJ should worry about not giving tuition breaks to in state students at its own state universities. Their biggest worry should be the brain drain.

When I was at NC State 2% of their students came from NJ and another 2% from NY. That's a lot for a state school that takes 84% of its students from in state.

Simply put, NJ produces better educated high school graduates than most of the country. Christie would be wiser not to mess with that.
 
2011-04-08 03:06:30 PM

TheAlgebraist: Implementing this scheme will leave only dumb teachers in schools.


In public schools you mean, all the good teachers I've seen made a beeline for private schools as soon as they realized how much they were being f-ed over in their public school jobs. Either that or rich suburban public schools which are pretty much the same thing anyway.
 
2011-04-08 03:07:11 PM
All teachers have to have a Masters degree to teach right? So, who is teaching our teachers? Maybe we need to go after them.

Seriously, why is everyone so afraid to admit that the problems are students and their parents AND underfunding public schools?

Schools don't have enough money to properly discipline children.

When teachers try, they get fired. Parents sue. Please, it's not hard to see what is happening.
 
2011-04-08 03:07:50 PM
"How do you test a music teacher? How do you test the art teacher? And don't you test the special ed teacher a little differently?" he said.

When I saw the headline, I thought he was saying that STUDENTS should evaluated their teachers. That WOULD be a disaster.

But what he's proposing is actually quite reasonable, and I don't understand why the teacher's union would object. If the unions object to EVERY method of evaluating teachers, they're going to make it pretty damn clear that they simply don't think teachers should be evaluated at all.
 
2011-04-08 03:08:00 PM

James F. Campbell: Mississippi


Two reason, in my opinion:

1. With a 2010 census estimated population of 2,951,996, MS has one of the smallest populations
2. With an estimated 62% graduation rate (2001), it has one of the lowest
3. Consider MS's community college debacle - 19 junior colleges, phatly funded and offering many, many full-tuition scholarships for almost anything. Most of them have thriving athletic programs that serve as the GPS boosters for Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas and, of course, Mississippi schools with larger programs that need to make eligible some brain-dead linebacker

It's a system that is *designed* to look like Mississippi addresses its' stupid quotient. Thanks Haley!

/and happy super bulldog weekend you MSU folk
 
2011-04-08 03:09:47 PM

fisker: All teachers have to have a Masters degree to teach right? So, who is teaching our teachers? Maybe we need to go after them.

Seriously, why is everyone so afraid to admit that the problems are students and their parents AND underfunding public schools?

Schools don't have enough money to properly discipline children.

When teachers try, they get fired. Parents sue. Please, it's not hard to see what is happening.


They wasted all their discipline capital having police arrest HS students caught with aspirin, and kindergartners who drew stick figures with handguns.
 
2011-04-08 03:09:59 PM

Kohl: Imagine for a moment you make a product. For our purposes, this widget can be small plastic toys, because we're marketing to children. You get everything made on a budget, you spend hours constructing creative ways to market the product, and you sell loads. Now imagine that your pay is determined by how well the children play with the toys: You did your job, you made the product and sold it with instructions, but your salary is going to be determined by how many children use their imaginations properly with it or throw it against the wall or drool all over it.

Having your pay based on how stupid or smart kids are sucks.


THIS
 
2011-04-08 03:10:07 PM
Oops - make that three reasons... :/
 
2011-04-08 03:10:26 PM

tufty: TimonC346:Wow. That's high for teachers. It still isn't farking greedy or highly overpaid, if overpaid at all. Give me a farking break, this is a college educated type of job, everyone who makes THAT much is Master's Degree equipped. There is nothing wrong with paying people that are qualified well./i>

Agreed, my point was that, teachers in NJ aren't exactly destitute. Would I have a $70kpa with 2 months annual vacation... er, lemme think!


This is New Jersey. Their average teacher salary is under $60k while the average salary of all workers in New Jersey is over $60k. So the teachers, all of which have at least a BA and most have a MA, are actually paid less than the average worker in the state. This includes every dufus who serves fries. If anything, their teachers aren't making nearly enough.
 
2011-04-08 03:11:45 PM

Giltric: They wasted all their discipline capital having police arrest HS students caught with aspirin, and kindergartners who drew stick figures with handguns.


Yeah, I remember the 2 times THAT happened.
 
2011-04-08 03:13:05 PM

Dirtybird971: "How do you test a music teacher? How do you test the art teacher? And don't you test the special ed teacher a little differently?" he said.

I'd like him to explain this...why would you test the teacher of a special needs class "differently"? Is he saying that those teachers are there because it fits their abilities? That they themselves are "special"?
how about this fatty? Control your eating and let the teachers teach. It's funny to me that he calls the unions "thugs and bullies", because he's a lawyer and that's the biggest farking scam going..

/law abiding citizen


My cousin teaches special ed at a local (elementary, I think) school. You can't use standardized tests on any of those kids, because they all have widely varying problems. That said, how do you judge a teacher in that field by or even begin to ask the quality of education someone with severe autism is getting? Or any of the other disabilities Special Ed teachers have to deal with?
 
2011-04-08 03:13:32 PM

Giltric: Christie wants them to pay 30% towards benfits


Does anyone, anywhere pay that much?
 
2011-04-08 03:14:27 PM

tufty: patrick767: Christie on Thursday called for public school teachers to be evaluated based equally on their classroom performance and student achievement and accused the state's largest teachers union of being a group of "bullies and thugs."

I'm sure that's not just bullshiat red meat rhetoric to demonize teachers who want to make a living wage. Nope, not at all. STFU, Christie, you cock.

Average teacher salary in NJ ~$58,500 pa + $12,500 in benefits. STFU patrick767, you cock.


Just sayin', $58k w/benefits is not exactly 'rolling it in' in nj. God forbid you might even want to buy a house, or have kids, or go on vacation occasionally. Maybe in bumfark one could live comfortably on that but nj is one of the most expensive states to live in.
 
2011-04-08 03:21:16 PM

madgonad: tufty: TimonC346:Wow. That's high for teachers. It still isn't farking greedy or highly overpaid, if overpaid at all. Give me a farking break, this is a college educated type of job, everyone who makes THAT much is Master's Degree equipped. There is nothing wrong with paying people that are qualified well./i>

Agreed, my point was that, teachers in NJ aren't exactly destitute. Would I have a $70kpa with 2 months annual vacation... er, lemme think!

This is New Jersey. Their average teacher salary is under $60k while the average salary of all workers in New Jersey is over $60k. So the teachers, all of which have at least a BA and most have a MA, are actually paid less than the average worker in the state. This includes every dufus who serves fries. If anything, their teachers aren't making nearly enough.


Not only does that include every doofus who serves fries it includes every Corzine, and A-rod and Springsteen.


Did you have a point?
 
2011-04-08 03:23:31 PM

fisker: Giltric: They wasted all their discipline capital having police arrest HS students caught with aspirin, and kindergartners who drew stick figures with handguns.

Yeah, I remember the 2 times THAT happened.


Not my fault you can't count past 2.

Thats what happens when unions protect bad teachers.
 
2011-04-08 03:24:15 PM

Catymogo1: tufty: patrick767: Christie on Thursday called for public school teachers to be evaluated based equally on their classroom performance and student achievement and accused the state's largest teachers union of being a group of "bullies and thugs."

I'm sure that's not just bullshiat red meat rhetoric to demonize teachers who want to make a living wage. Nope, not at all. STFU, Christie, you cock.

Average teacher salary in NJ ~$58,500 pa + $12,500 in benefits. STFU patrick767, you cock.

Just sayin', $58k w/benefits is not exactly 'rolling it in' in nj. God forbid you might even want to buy a house, or have kids, or go on vacation occasionally. Maybe in bumfark one could live comfortably on that but nj is one of the most expensive states to live in.


Yeah, well, I only make minimum wage flipping burgers, and that's a lot more than me, so they should make less because
 
2011-04-08 03:25:04 PM

tufty: Agreed, my point was that, teachers in NJ aren't exactly destitute. Would I have a $70kpa with 2 months annual vacation... er, lemme think!


If you want good teachers and not whatever idiots aren't good enough to make money in the private sector than you have to pay them. $70k is low for any competent person in an actually useful field. Especially when they need to deal with asshole kids, more asshole kids, asshole parents, more asshole parents, threats of lawsuits, bureaucratic bs, fear of criminal charges if male (the mean teacher touched me) and so on.
 
2011-04-08 03:27:34 PM
FTFA:
A teacher rated effective or highly effective for three consecutive years would receive tenure, Christie said. Teachers would lose tenure after two consecutive years of ineffective ratings. Christie's proposal also makes it quicker to get rid of
underperforming teachers - cases would be resolved in 30 days.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
2011-04-08 03:27:56 PM

Giltric: madgonad: tufty: TimonC346:Wow. That's high for teachers. It still isn't farking greedy or highly overpaid, if overpaid at all. Give me a farking break, this is a college educated type of job, everyone who makes THAT much is Master's Degree equipped. There is nothing wrong with paying people that are qualified well./i>

Agreed, my point was that, teachers in NJ aren't exactly destitute. Would I have a $70kpa with 2 months annual vacation... er, lemme think!

This is New Jersey. Their average teacher salary is under $60k while the average salary of all workers in New Jersey is over $60k. So the teachers, all of which have at least a BA and most have a MA, are actually paid less than the average worker in the state. This includes every dufus who serves fries. If anything, their teachers aren't making nearly enough.

Not only does that include every doofus who serves fries it includes every Corzine, and A-rod and Springsteen.


Did you have a point?


I think the point is that among workers who share the same metrics, meaning years of experience and education, teacher compensation in NJ is below average, and since the cost of living is high in NJ, the fact that Unions have arranged for below average salaries that meet cost of living standards, you shouldn't complain so much about teacher salaries.
 
2011-04-08 03:28:15 PM
madgonad:

This is New Jersey. Their average teacher salary is under $60k while the average salary of all workers in New Jersey is over $60k.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that non state/union workers pay a little more than 1.5% of their benefits package and don't get 2 months vacation and are virtually unfireable...

I'm not saying they are paid a monster wage, just that the benefits package is substantial and part of their income whether the unions say so or not.
 
2011-04-08 03:30:45 PM

Kohl: Imagine for a moment you make a product. For our purposes, this widget can be small plastic toys, because we're marketing to children. You are required to produce within an ever-increasing budget, you work less than 8 hours a day, spend hours chatting with colleagues, and vacation for 3 months each year. You can strike when you want to, when you don't get pay raises based upon peoples' rising home values. Now imagine that your pay is not in any fashion attributable to how well your product sells in the marketplace. You showed up for your cushy job, got paid a large amount of money despite lack of oversight, and don't really give a crap about anything other than your bottom line.

Having your pay based on how stupid or smart kids are might suck, but there is no other way to empirically evaluate your performance.


FTFY
 
2011-04-08 03:33:05 PM

tufty: I'm not saying they are paid a monster wage, just that the benefits package is substantial and part of their income whether the unions say so or not.


That's BS, every decent job has a massive benefits package due to health insurance costs alone. If you include that for teachers than you have to add it to all the other jobs if you're comparing salaries.
 
2011-04-08 03:33:37 PM
i236.photobucket.com
 
2011-04-08 03:34:20 PM
Knowing many people, including my gf, that are in education in NJ, peer reviews won't work, because most of the teachers are, frankly, caty broads who are in the field just because its a good job to have while waiting to have kids and an easy degree to get while in college.

However the NJEA is probably the worst organization in this country, and anything that breaks its power is a good thing.

And that 30% figure (which is inflated) includes not only their healthcare, but their cushy retirement.
 
2011-04-08 03:34:40 PM
So, if I'm being held accountable for the outcomes of my classroom, does this mean I get the following as well ... ?

a) Control of the curriculum. Teachers currently have almost no say in what is taught. Instead we're given an extensive, non-sensical list of standards dreamed up by politicians.

b) The ability to discipline students without reprisal. Right now, every teacher knows that if an angry parent comes in, the teacher will lose EVERY SINGLE TIME -- no matter how ridiculous the demands/issues are.

c) Reasonable classroom sizes. Amazingly enough, teachers are not able to give one-on-one time to each of 180 students in 6 hours of instruction time.

d) Adequate time to plan lessons. Name another profession which subsists of all presentation time with almost no opportunity to develop the presentations.

e) Funds to purchase classroom supplies. Most teachers are given a laughable budget to buy classroom supplies for 100-180 students. Sorry, but 80 dollars doesn't go that far.

f) Support from parents and administrators when it comes to rigor. Right now, if a teacher's class is too challenging and students do not receive automatic high marks, teachers will be remonstrated for unrealistic expectations.

I could keep going on and on. In a nutshell, the biggest change over the past 20 years in education is that teachers have been marginalized in the decision-making process. Yeah, public education is failing. Maybe we should try supporting and assisting teachers rather than micro-managing them and undermining their efforts. Right now, the happiest teachers are the ones that draw no outside-the-classroom attention to themselves. Guess what are best ways to achieve this?
 
2011-04-08 03:35:35 PM

coco ebert: James F. Campbell: Whoa, are you sure that chart's accurate? It shows Mississippi of all places as having a higher percentage of high school graduates going directly to college than any other state in the union -- 77.4%.

Perhaps because there are fewer people who actually graduate high school so those that do actually continue on to college?


Another funny statistic, rural states also have higher average SAT scores. Not because their students preform higher, but because only the best students are pushed into taking the SAT versus urban states where a higher percent take them.
 
2011-04-08 03:38:49 PM

James F. Campbell: Hey, I know what will improve our education system: let's cut teacher's wages. That way, only people who really farking enjoy being treated like shiat will teach!

JerseyTim: Seems to me like they're doing OK.

Whoa, are you sure that chart's accurate? It shows Mississippi of all places as having a higher percentage of high school graduates going directly to college than any other state in the union -- 77.4%.


That's because so many HS students in Mississippi don't graduate
 
2011-04-08 03:40:38 PM

Rakishi:

That's BS, every decent job has a massive benefits package due to health insurance costs alone. If you include that for teachers than you have to add it to all the other jobs if you're comparing salaries.


You've obviously never had a real job, you should stay in your parent's basement for as long as you can.
 
2011-04-08 03:41:41 PM

GAT_00: SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with having a thread like this on Fark is that nobody outside of New Jersey knows just how screwed up the education system is here. Things need to change. Christie wants to change them.

And how is having teachers evaluate each other, when they really can't by definition know how the other teaches because they tend to teach at the same time, fix education?


It's quite possible teachers would use their prep period to do peer observations. Any evaluation- peer or adminstrator- without observation would be lacking
 
2011-04-08 03:42:29 PM

JerseyTim: SpeshilEdjukashin: There is no excuse for spending as much as we do and still churning out burger flippers and lifetime Walmart greeters.

Seems to me like they're doing OK.


The chart you submitted has Mississippi at the top of the students who graduate high school going to college.

Now as someone who grew up in a state directly bordering Mississippi, I'd have to say that automatically makes those statistics worthless.

Perhaps what those statistics *meant* to say was that Mississippi included students who graduated high school and then went on to clean restrooms at college?

Or that only a small percentage of the population that attended school in Mississippi actually *started* high school in the first place.

/either way bunk statistics are bunk statistics.
 
2011-04-08 03:43:22 PM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: How will this quell inappropriate actions between teachers and students?

She bought me beer and sucked my cock A++


I guess the same could be said for teacher-teacher relationships. Quid pro quo.
 
2011-04-08 03:45:57 PM

Clete Orris: Kohl: Imagine for a moment you make a product. For our purposes, this widget can be small plastic toys, because we're marketing to children. You are required to produce within an ever-increasing budget, you work less than 8 hours a day, spend hours chatting with colleagues, and vacation for 3 months each year. You can strike when you want to, when you don't get pay raises based upon peoples' rising home values. Now imagine that your pay is not in any fashion attributable to how well your product sells in the marketplace. You showed up for your cushy job, got paid a large amount of money despite lack of oversight, and don't really give a crap about anything other than your bottom line.

Having your pay based on how stupid or smart kids are might suck, but there is no other way to empirically evaluate your performance.

FTFY


Hey, sweet, I left out all the lies and conjecture, thanks for fixing that for me.

-I don't know any teachers, anywhere, in any state, that get by doing less than 8 hours a day. You're using the figure, maybe, of bell to bell, so if you think the 7 hours from 8 to 3 when class is in session is the entirety of the work week for a teacher, then you've never heard of a thing called "grading" or even making lesson plans.

-Hours chatting with colleagues? Within those 7 hours? Who's teaching the class then if all the teacher's are out chatting?

-I'll give you the three months between summer and winter breaks, but then again, plenty of teachers make themselves available for summer school.

-You can strike when you want to because you're in a specialized field and it's difficult to replace you: I think you'll find this is the case with ANY profession that requires special credentials, not just a strong union.

-Home values might be factored into cost of living, sure, but that really is what Unions set out to protect, that you can actually afford to live where your job is on your salary. You might find this is advantageous not to have all your teachers leave the state because they can't afford to live there.

-How well it sells is established in the analogy: it does sell well, meaning that you've fulfilled the purposes set out in your job description. In the metaphorical example, your sales are the goal of your job description. If you're a geometry teacher, your job is to present information. If you give a lecture explaining that the circumference of a circle is determined by pi*diameter and your students don't study and write pi*radius, you only have so much control over that. Pretending that the teacher is ultimately and solely responsible for student performance is absolutely ignorant of how education actually works.

-There actually is plenty of oversight and administrative involvement, it just turns out administrators don't always cotton to "My kid is getting a D, it must be the teacher's fault." Just because your kid is a bad student doesn't reflexively make his teacher bad.

-Teachers care a lot about their jobs and their students. Just because you expect them to do the job for free doesn't mean they don't care about the students.

-That isn't even close to being an empirical way of evaluating performance because it's so thoroughly confounded by the variability in student populations.
 
2011-04-08 03:46:29 PM

Dirtybird971: "How do you test a music teacher? How do you test the art teacher? And don't you test the special ed teacher a little differently?" he said.

I'd like him to explain this...why would you test the teacher of a special needs class "differently"? Is he saying that those teachers are there because it fits their abilities? That they themselves are "special"?
how about this fatty? Control your eating and let the teachers teach. It's funny to me that he calls the unions "thugs and bullies", because he's a lawyer and that's the biggest farking scam going..

/law abiding citizen


Special ed classes are very different in the high schools because they are multidisciplinary. The same teacher covers all subjects with the same group of students and often the class has freshmen through senior in the same class. On the elementary level it is more comparable to mainstream classrooms but still has multigrade in one class (usually K-3 and 4-6 but varies by school and district.
 
2011-04-08 03:46:39 PM

Rakishi: tufty: I'm not saying they are paid a monster wage, just that the benefits package is substantial and part of their income whether the unions say so or not.

That's BS, every decent job has a massive benefits package due to health insurance costs alone. If you include that for teachers than you have to add it to all the other jobs if you're comparing salaries.


Does the prvate sector still offer pensions?...or a 401k of which they will match 6%-12% max of contributions.

Whats the difference bewteen offering a 6%-12% max 401k matching contribution and a guaranteed salary of (insert penions formula here) ...im gonna go out on a limb and claim its billions of dolars in extra liability.

At least the private sector job can adjust prices and hope people buy more of their products....government just takes whatever they want at threat of incarceration/gunpoint.

A teacher will make what they make for the rest of their life....not so much in the private sector so I agree that its a bad comparison of salary/benes.
 
2011-04-08 03:49:10 PM

jfbnr24: GAT_00: SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with having a thread like this on Fark is that nobody outside of New Jersey knows just how screwed up the education system is here. Things need to change. Christie wants to change them.

And how is having teachers evaluate each other, when they really can't by definition know how the other teaches because they tend to teach at the same time, fix education?

It's quite possible teachers would use their prep period to do peer observations. Any evaluation- peer or adminstrator- without observation would be lacking


Yes, because teachers have just loads of spare time. If you knew any teachers, and by comments such as that I find it safe to assume you don't, you'd know that they tend to spend at least 2-3 hours a night grading and preparing material. I'm sure they don't use any other possible time, like time set aside for prep period, to get ready for the day.
 
2011-04-08 03:51:44 PM

tufty: You've obviously never had a real job, you should stay in your parent's basement for as long as you can.


Wow, either you've always had really shiatty jobs, have never looked a the benefits amount assigned to you and/or have never talked to someone managing a company. I feel sorry for you.

At my last job, as a single individual my health care costs (paid by my employer) came out to $6k/year or so which is low apparently. With a spouse that would be (through my COBRA information package) $12k and with a dependent in the mix it's a whopping $18k. That's just health insurance, not counting any 401k matching, disability, life insurance and so on. Having talked with people who actually negotiate these for their companies these numbers are representative and don't really go down much even with crap coverage. Which for individuals with low salaries is a real pain for companies since any health insurance increases, such as through the new health care law, has a dramatic increase on the cost of an employee.
 
2011-04-08 03:52:01 PM
tufty
Average teacher salary in NJ ~$58,500 pa + $12,500 in benefits. STFU patrick767, you cock.

Keep being an ignorant fool who thinks teaching is easy and slashing teacher's salaries will improve education. I'm sure that will work out well for our future.
 
2011-04-08 03:54:41 PM

Lenny and Carl: I'm a product of a New Jersey high school. From there I went to NC State and found that I was miles ahead of my NC classmates. My 100 level classes were a rehash of stuff from my sophomore and junior years of high school.

If anything, NJ should worry about not giving tuition breaks to in state students at its own state universities. Their biggest worry should be the brain drain.

When I was at NC State 2% of their students came from NJ and another 2% from NY. That's a lot for a state school that takes 84% of its students from in state.

Simply put, NJ produces better educated high school graduates than most of the country. Christie would be wiser not to mess with that.


If your grasp of statistics and sample size are any indication of how well educated NJ graduates are, that says a lot about the rest of the country.
 
2011-04-08 03:59:55 PM

JerseyTim: SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with having a thread like this on Fark is that nobody outside of New Jersey knows just how screwed up the education system is here. Things need to change. Christie wants to change them.

I live in Jersey. The high schools around where I live are terrific. The one in the town I live in is OK, nothing special. But, I'm surrounded by good-to-great schools.


You live in Bergen County, right? The students attending public schools in Paterson or Camden might see things a bit different than you.

The economic disparity in New Jersey can be downright surreal at times.
 
2011-04-08 03:59:58 PM
Rakishi:

*Sigh* Yes you're right, benefits packages in the private sector are much better than in the public sector.
 
2011-04-08 04:00:48 PM

gerrymander: FTFA: He laid out new details of his plan for teacher evaluations, basing them equally on student achievement and teacher performance in the classroom. Every school district should design and implement its evaluation plan based on that framework, Christie said, with teachers and principals taking charge of drafting the plan and measuring one another's performance.

Idiot. Peer review always turns into a beauty pageant. Why just the other day, some mouthbreather was praising Ada Yonath for her Nobel Prize in Chemistry -- as though her "ribosome research" had anything to so with it. Everyone knows the only reason she won was because she flashed journal editors behind the bleachers.


Read "The New Inquisition" by Robert Anton Wilson. It's absolutely terrifying how some people think the current system of academic peer review is a perfect flawless system shining with the Jesus-like light of truth.
 
2011-04-08 04:01:09 PM

Giltric: Does the prvate sector still offer pensions?...or a 401k of which they will match 6%-12% max of contributions.

Whats the difference bewteen offering a 6%-12% max 401k matching contribution and a guaranteed salary of (insert penions formula here) ...im gonna go out on a limb and claim its billions of dolars in extra liability.

At least the private sector job can adjust prices and hope people buy more of their products....government just takes whatever they want at threat of incarceration/gunpoint.

A teacher will make what they make for the rest of their life....not so much in the private sector so I agree that its a bad comparison of salary/benes.


That's assuming the teacher is incompetent which means you've failed already. If you're making $15k more in a private sector job than you can be putting all that into a 401k which will give you something like $150k/year for twenty years after you retire assuming shiatty returns. Sure you have a bit less job security (unless they fire a third of the teachers like the do on occasion) but the flexibility really pays off if you're competent.
 
2011-04-08 04:03:27 PM
When budgets get cut, guess which teachers are fired? The worst ones? No, the newest ones. Every SINGLE time. There is no incentive to teach well under a union system.
 
2011-04-08 04:03:44 PM

tufty: *Sigh* Yes you're right, benefits packages in the private sector are much better than in the public sector.


When did I say that? You must have been a product of a really bad school district if your reading comprehension is that bad. I said that private sector benefits are non-trivial and if you add benefits to public sector job then you must do the same for private sector jobs. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges.
 
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