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(Washington Post)   There are as many gay Americans as there are people in New Jersey. Hmmm   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 56
    More: Interesting  
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2454 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2011 at 10:09 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-04-07 09:44:19 AM  
Way to insult gay Americans.

:-/
 
2011-04-07 10:11:23 AM  
yawn
 
2011-04-07 10:11:25 AM  
Therefore all people in New Jersey are gay?
 
2011-04-07 10:11:39 AM  
Ha-ha! You just got punked. The things in New Jersey are not "people".
 
2011-04-07 10:11:46 AM  
She said to him "Kiss Me where it Stinks"

So her drove her to Jersey.
 
2011-04-07 10:12:06 AM  

babysealclubber: Therefore all people in New Jersey are gay?


Well, the guidos at least.
 
2011-04-07 10:12:08 AM  
I think it's really unfair to the gay community to compare them to people from New Jersey.
 
2011-04-07 10:12:14 AM  
to27.com
 
2011-04-07 10:13:05 AM  
Everybody panic?
 
2011-04-07 10:13:30 AM  
gross
 
2011-04-07 10:13:38 AM  
woahhh... half way there!!!
 
2011-04-07 10:13:45 AM  
There are as many straight Americans as there are in all the other states besides New Jersey.
 
2011-04-07 10:13:51 AM  
Hell, considering what we see on "Jersey Shore", I'm surprised they haven't given up on sex altogether.
 
2011-04-07 10:14:05 AM  
iamatvjunkie.typepad.com
 
2011-04-07 10:15:24 AM  
Approves.

assets.nydailynews.com
 
2011-04-07 10:16:29 AM  
Being queer is a choice, not a " I was born this way" condition..

/ready go!
 
2011-04-07 10:16:35 AM  
I think they pull that number out of their ass
 
2011-04-07 10:17:00 AM  
 
2011-04-07 10:17:12 AM  
Figures they would be attracted to the A-hole of the US.
 
2011-04-07 10:18:54 AM  

Gentoolive: Being queer is a choice, not a " I was born this way" condition..

/ready go!


Oooh, sorry. The answer has to have a New Jersey reference in it.

//(1/10)
 
2011-04-07 10:21:29 AM  

bullwrinkle: I think they pull that number out of their ass


Snert
 
2011-04-07 10:22:33 AM  

Gentoolive: Being queer is a choice, not a " I was born this way" condition..

/ready go!


Yeah, but in Jersey they make you an offer you can't refuse!
 
182
2011-04-07 10:22:45 AM  
Springsteen says what?
 
2011-04-07 10:23:02 AM  

sleeper2995: Figures they would be attracted to the A-hole of the US.


you owe me a keyboard
 
2011-04-07 10:24:31 AM  
I have noticed an increase in hair salons.
 
2011-04-07 10:25:15 AM  
I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!

Also, hurricanes, tsunamis, nuclear power plants, and AIDS.
 
2011-04-07 10:29:50 AM  
Bruce Springsteen? I knew it!
 
mhd
2011-04-07 10:37:11 AM  

LeafyGreens: I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!


Ministers?
 
2011-04-07 10:45:42 AM  
Nothin' gay about this:

i.imgur.com
 
2011-04-07 10:50:02 AM  

mhd: LeafyGreens: I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!

Ministers?


Representatives at the state and federal levels?
 
2011-04-07 10:50:14 AM  
New Jersey isn't a crappy TV show and the north half of the Turnpike. I still love it here after 11 years, and am sad I'll be leaving this summer. I'd go back and live out my days at the shore in a heartbeat. It's fairly easy to never encounter loud young orange people, most of whom are from out of state, anyway, and crowd themselves into just a few areas.

If you put all the various studies, suggestions, information together regarding gay people, it never really adds up to more than 3-5% for real. But who cares? It's real people who are tired of being marginalized and judged for a human characteristic.

Some people want to say less as though that means they matter less, and some people want to say more, hoping that means others will see it matters a lot. Well, they matter not because of numbers but because they're people.
 
2011-04-07 10:50:55 AM  
LeafyGreens:I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!

And why must 100% of television shows and movies have multiple gay characters?
 
2011-04-07 10:53:12 AM  

bidness: Nothin' gay about this:


It appears that you have a situation of denial there...
 
2011-04-07 11:04:11 AM  
There are about as many rich people as gay people in the country. Since it is perfectly acceptable to have discriminatory laws against rich people, such as higher taxes, it should be just as acceptable to have discriminatory laws against gay people.
 
2011-04-07 11:07:37 AM  

trixter_nl: There are about as many rich people as gay people in the country. Since it is perfectly acceptable to have discriminatory laws against rich people, such as higher taxes, it should be just as acceptable to have discriminatory laws against gay people.


Rich people shouldn't be allowed to marry other rich people.
 
2011-04-07 11:08:08 AM  
Any attempt to determine the number of "gays" runs up against two basic problems: definition and sampling error.

If you define "gay" by same sex activity, you miss massive numbers of gays who are sexually inactive (virgins, deeply closeted gays, the great unlaid majority) and include many bisexuals and "men who have sex with men" who don't consider themselves gay or bisexual regardless of what their dicks may say.

If you define "gay" by same sex orientation without sexual activity, you run up against all those people who think "gay" is the wrong word or that they're not gay (virgins, deepley closeted gays, the great unlaid majority, bisexuals, men who have sex with men, conservatives, etc.).

How do you define gay? Tell me that and I'll tell you how many gays you will find--give or take 99%.

The other problem is collecting accurate statistics. The one major flaw in the Kinsey study is that he had to gather his data from the communities where he could get data. That was largely same sex communities (prisoners, youth in the system, priests) where "opportunistic" sex was surely a lot more common than among married men, and where people were franker about their sexuality (as opposed to the "Christian" married, conservative working classes, say).

Inevitably, the same was biased and it took great judgment to determine how much and how and to compensate for the vast unrecorded sexuality of "normal" people in the suburbs or country.

I think Kinsey did a great job. He knew what he wanted to find and he found it. He was ingenious and largely honest about finding it. But the problem of bias and definition remains real and serious.

Even if you are so experienced in the ways of the wicked world that you can "instinctively" know roughly how many people are gay or gayish, you can't prove that to skeptics because 1) they don't want to hear about it; 2) they won't listen to theory or fact; and 3) it's really hard to prove anything with a margin of error smaller than the entire population.

The low figures (1%, 1.5%, 2.5%) are too low, I am sure. You practically have to limit yourself to the OUTS, namely those who are freely and frankly active, exclusive, "card-carrying" homosexuals. I don't doubt that by the time you have screened the whole population down to these people, you are getting pretty small and reliable figures. It's just the other 97% of the population you can't trust.

Middling figures such as 5% or 6% are plausible to me. That would be about the whole of the "exclusively" gay population, many or most of whom may well have been married seeing as most Americans, etc., do marry, and many of whom will have no doubt "experimented" with straight sex or perhaps enjoy it routinely but still think of themselves as gay because the women don't really count, just as the men who have sex with men think of themselves as straight because the men don't really count.

10% is high enough for me, although I suspect the old 33% of the population are bisexual figure is reasonably solid.

So you have a continuum that fades from 1% to 3% flaming queens who have had anal sex with men (passively) in the last three hours and will do it again in the next three hours, to the elderly nun, who at 95 has never had sex with anybody but who is as lesbian as it is possible for any human to be without actually acting on her natural inclinations in the space of 95 years.

All the rest is politics. Conservatives and others of the homophobic ilk will resolutely ignore, deny and destroy all evidence that the world is not wholely and naturally straight as God intended, while some gay people or liberals will believe that anybody can be gay if the right man/woman comes along.

Nothing is going to change that unless it turns out to be wholely naturally genetic and somebody decides to "cleanse" the population of the genes in question. Only a completely totalitarian society can impose its sexual strictures on the whole population, and I very much doubt that would work or last very long.

If sexual orientation were really a choice, the argument in favour of bisexuality is so obvious and strong, that nobody would be able to ignore it: "Don't knock bisexuality. It doubles your chance of a date on Saturday night."--Woody Allen

He has a damn good point. I wish it were so simple.

I doubt if there is anything sexual that we don't share with Bonobo, or Pygmy, chimpanzees. They are polymorphous perverse, which is what comes naturally. As the French say, "Tous les gouts sont dans la nature"--all tastes exist in nature, whatever turns your crank, there's no accounting for taste.

Which reminds me of the James Thurber cartoon about the couple gossiping at a cocktail party. He says, of another couple: "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas"--the heart has its reasons which reason does not know or understand.

Note to Lesbians: If you meet a "liberal" or "gay" man who says he's a lesbian inside, feel free to kick him in the balls and shout "I guess you won't be needing these, then!" before running off cackling like the hen who laid the ostrich egg. That's what I'm tempted to do in such cases. Give him my love.

I am a liberal man, but I just don't trust bisexuals. You never know who they're up to behind your back. They make me nervous. How can they be happy except in a love triangle? Two people are a crowd. Three's just mathematically impossible, like the three body problem in physics. Maybe that makes me a square, but at least I don't need to buy King size sheets.
 
2011-04-07 11:11:39 AM  

trixter_nl: There are about as many rich people as gay people in the country. Since it is perfectly acceptable to have discriminatory laws against rich people, such as higher taxes, it should be just as acceptable to have discriminatory laws against gay people.


They didn't choose to be rich! They were just born that way!
 
2011-04-07 11:14:43 AM  
The Situation uh huh
The short, fat, orange, Oompah Loompah Snooki sure.
 
2011-04-07 11:31:01 AM  

Fabric_Man: trixter_nl: There are about as many rich people as gay people in the country. Since it is perfectly acceptable to have discriminatory laws against rich people, such as higher taxes, it should be just as acceptable to have discriminatory laws against gay people.

They didn't choose to be rich! They were just born that way!


I can help them change.
 
2011-04-07 11:33:45 AM  

brantgoose: I am a liberal man, but I just don't trust bisexuals. You never know who they're up to behind your back. They make me nervous. How can they be happy except in a love triangle? Two people are a crowd. Three's just mathematically impossible, like the three body problem in physics. Maybe that makes me a square, but at least I don't need to buy King size sheets.


There are bisexuals behind you RIGHT NOW!
 
2011-04-07 11:52:10 AM  
I have no problem with this.

Have you seen how much gays have revived Asbury Park?
 
2011-04-07 11:57:24 AM  

Old_Covered_Bridge: LeafyGreens:I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!

And why must 100% of television shows and movies have multiple gay characters?


maybe because 100% of straight people know someone who is gay or 100% of gay people know someone who is straight?

iono. just guessing.
 
2011-04-07 12:21:21 PM  
"...In Maryland, the Gates numbers were seized upon by advocates and opponents of efforts to legalize same-sex marriage..."

Uh... I'm not sure you should deny an entire class of people equal rights simply because there aren't a lot of them. I believe there are fewer Jews in America than gays, for example.

I'm honestly bothered that anyone would think this way, though I guess it no longer surprises me.
 
2011-04-07 12:22:16 PM  
So does that mean that

www.popcrunch.com

is actually a man?

/that explains a lot
 
2011-04-07 12:22:52 PM  
great. now that we know just how irrelevant they are, can we please stop pretending they matter?
 
2011-04-07 12:25:47 PM  

brantgoose: ...That would be about the whole of the "exclusively" gay population, many or most of whom may well have been married seeing as most Americans, etc., do marry, and many of whom will have no doubt "experimented" with straight sex...


I'm honestly surprised that more folks don't get this. I vaguely recall seeing a "study" on gay populations that effectively said if a gay man had ever had sex with a woman in his life, he didn't "count." In other words, a guy like Elton John, who was married to a woman, was not considered gay.

It was bizarre.
 
2011-04-07 12:50:49 PM  
Now that they have been inventoried and located,
guess what's next?
you'd never guess why its been made so acceptable.
now they are out of hiding.. easy to find.
You know who else did something like that?
hmm?
 
2011-04-07 01:14:03 PM  

Old_Covered_Bridge: LeafyGreens:I think it's pretty awesome that 3.5% of the populations holds total and complete power over the marriages of the other 96.5%!

And why must 100% of television shows and movies have multiple gay characters?


Sounds like you're seeing a lot that isn't actually there. Like the bigot who sees one black person in one show out of a hundred, and then complaints that there are black people in every show.
 
2011-04-07 01:37:16 PM  

brantgoose:
10% is high enough for me, although I suspect the old 33% of the population are bisexual figure is reasonably solid.



Right, so you're going to completely ignore the study and just go with your own personal feeling of what the truth is.

Good plan.
 
2011-04-07 01:58:33 PM  

2chris2: brantgoose:
10% is high enough for me, although I suspect the old 33% of the population are bisexual figure is reasonably solid.


Right, so you're going to completely ignore the study and just go with your own personal feeling of what the truth is.

Good plan.


Actually, he had a long post that talked all about methodology and previous results before this "suspicion" was brought up. So, what is being said is that it is pretty much impossible to know for sure, so the most accurate numbers are likely to be projections based on educated guesses. This is true for many statistics including the national census.

Let's be honest about what happened here. This 2chris2 doesn't really care about the truth or data or any of these arguments. He saw the big 33% number and balked. Forget about connecting this complaint to any of the stuff about methods or data that came first. This is interesting because it is so prominent for people to make the same mistakes that they complain about. In this case 2chris2 is going to ignore everything else that was said and just go with his feeling that people are making stuff up.

This whole argument is academic. If there were even fewer gay people than holocaust survivors it still wouldn't make sense to discriminate against them. The land of the free and home of the brave has fallen into the hands of small minded back stabbing terrorists.
 
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