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(All Access)   Laywer has a 40-year-old secret document from the Vatican explaining how to hold internal trials on sex abuse cases where no priest gets convicted   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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16005 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Aug 2003 at 9:21 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

528 Comments     (+0 »)

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2003-08-05 08:53:45 AM  
2003-08-05 09:23:20 AM  
not so secret now.
2003-08-05 09:25:31 AM  
Off topic, but: Why is this a link to a Toledo Ohio station when the story is out of Houston? Is Jamie Farr the submitter?
2003-08-05 09:27:43 AM  
"And I'm saying, my God, what has happened to the Catholic Church?" exclaimed Shea.

These internal investigations have really gone downhill since the Inquisition.
2003-08-05 09:27:51 AM  
And KTRK-TV is there! I'll wait until this hits the CNN main page thanks. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long, long time.
2003-08-05 09:28:32 AM  
Oh boy! I hope this turns into a religious flame war!
/sits back and crosses her fingers.
2003-08-05 09:28:49 AM  
Bless me Father, for I have sinned.
2003-08-05 09:29:00 AM  
They keep the kids gagged

[image from too old to be available]
2003-08-05 09:29:32 AM  
Allright, this catholic alter-boy molesting dream of the press is going a bit far. I'm sure it has happened, I'm sure the church wants it kept secret. However, I doubt this Document will "could shake the foundation of the Catholic Church." And I doubt that it is happening with the frequency the press makes it sound like.

Why everyone is so obsessed with this topic is beyond me.
I may just be upset because I was an alterboy for 8 years and I didn't even get leered at.
2003-08-05 09:30:09 AM  
The Catholic Church says: Two consenting homosexual males can not have sex. But priests can rape children and get away with it.
2003-08-05 09:31:36 AM  
The Catholic Church = Sham
2003-08-05 09:31:41 AM  
lukelightning - it was one of the perks of the job
2003-08-05 09:32:14 AM  
Dude, how many hundreds of years do you think this stuff has been going on? I've just gotten whiffs from the Vatican that they aren't all that surprised about all this. Nothing substantial, mind you, just an impression.

But does anyone really think that this problem is isolated to America, or to this generation of priests?
2003-08-05 09:32:58 AM  
I'm going to give the Catholic Church the benefit of the doubt on this one. Being Mormon, so called "secret documents" tend to appear every year...with amazing, secret information that will shake the LDS church to it's very core! As always, they're found to be fakes...made by fanatics who who hate us.

Thic Catholic church document seems eerily similar. Some guy got a hold of a super secret document, filled with sexy details of immoral directives from the Vatican...right when the Catholic church is in the middle of these scandals. It's all too suspicious to me. I'm not going to rush to judgment.
2003-08-05 09:35:08 AM  
2003-08-05 09:35:14 AM  
We have uh-oh, over.
2003-08-05 09:36:19 AM  
I used to think the Catholic Church was just the same as my local anglican church but with more latin and candels. Luckily Jack Chick Showed me that it is a group of Satan worshipping Masons, controlled by the forces of darkness and praying to a Babylonian moon goddess.
2003-08-05 09:36:29 AM  
Yeah, I'm with V-sama. I was an alter boy for many many years, and none of the priests ever took me into a back room, or even looked at me longingly. I feel like I missed out on a part of Catholic childhood that all the other kids got to enjoy.

/now an athiest
2003-08-05 09:36:52 AM  
I believe in God, I just don't believe in people who work for God.

2003-08-05 09:37:48 AM  
Did you guys *really* think an organisation w/ plenty of money & political clout & little public acountabillity won't abuse their power for personal gain/pleasure and then cover it up?

Really? because they claim divine truth?

2003-08-05 09:41:57 AM  
*sniff* *sniff*

2003-08-05 09:45:30 AM  
That cartoon chick is hot!
2003-08-05 09:45:59 AM  
The church has been sliding to h311 since Eugenio Pacelli sold out the German Church to the Nazis. the slide picked up speed when they elected him Pope.
2003-08-05 09:48:23 AM  
everyone is so obsessed with this topic,V-sama, because sexual abuse is bad enough, but can be extraordinarily damaging when the abuse comes from someone as trusted as a priest. The priest is a very important symbol to a young person attempting to have a relationship with god.

When that person sexually abuses the child, it tarnishes the child's idea of the entire church and religion itself.

Personally, I would be pleased to see many children driven away from catholicism, but not like this.

The men in charge of the catholic church had a responsibility to rectify this situation before it became rampant. They did not do that, and they should now be held accountable for their deciet.
2003-08-05 09:50:43 AM  
I can't wait for another 1000 years into the future when religion is dead.

/signs up to be frozen
2003-08-05 09:52:33 AM  
I still have trouble reconciling the fact that the predominant religion of the western world is based on an oxymoron.

/vigrin birth
2003-08-05 09:52:55 AM  
I call bullshiat, its just too much of a coincidence that this document is revealed at a time when both the US and the UK were thinking of appointing gay bishops.
2003-08-05 09:53:46 AM  
"Allright, this catholic alter-boy molesting dream of the press is going a bit far. I'm sure it has happened..."

Well is more then alter-boy stuff. This stuff linking back to Resitdentail school case where Brother-feel-touch. Would have his way with alot of Native students. And this isn't old stuff either that happen a long time ago either. Keep in mind the Goverment didn't rule out these schools till 1980. That was three years before I was born. And this touching little kids thing went on since it started.

But I do doubt this document. Many people make up fakes of everything.
2003-08-05 09:54:40 AM  

I agree sexual abuse is very bad, but what I am saying is that the catholic church is not the only group of religous perverts out there. I have heard of pastors abusing children from other religions, why is it so much worse when it is a priest? And why is everyone jumping on the bandwagon saying it is all priests? It's a very small minority of priests. I bet there are more teachers that have abused kids then priests, yet the press is not out flamming the teachers.
/still upset about not being "molesterd"
2003-08-05 09:54:58 AM  
The Catholic Church = One of the most hyprocitical, pathetic-excuse-for-a-Christian organizations ever.

Shouldn't that be "Christianity = One of the most hyprocitical, pathetic-excuse-for-a-religious organizations ever"?

Not to start a scriptural debate, but the whole vow of celibacy is nowhere in the Bible. It's one of the many, many stupid traditions the Catholic church started that has caused lots of problems.

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Seriously.

Bishops, Arch-Bishops & Popes were amassing huge amounts of land and personal fortunes, to the point that they were controlling state-affairs, which were then left to their heirs. Generally the Vatican wouldn't have cared about this too much, but they were also threatening the power of the Church itself.

In order to stop this, the Church created the rule on celibacy. The rule itself has had it's ups and downs, including in 1045 when the Pope quit so that he could get married.

If you really want to know about some neat Popes, take a look at Calixto III & Alexander IV. Both were sons of the Borgias, and didn't let a little thing like being Pope stand in the way of their libidos (yes, to a Borgia, being Pope was no big deal).

2003-08-05 09:56:38 AM  
I forget his name, but there's a former priest who for many years was "point man" for fixing parishes which had been tainted by sexual abuse scandal. This guy would restore the parishioners faith, see to it that the naughty priest was reassigned/sent away someplace, and so on. This dude was an expert on the rules and regs of the Church (and you ain't seen a bureaucracy til you've seen the Catholic Church). According to this dude, the Vatican has what amounts to a two-part personnel file on every priest. There's the part that you'd expect, and then there's the secret part that (for some priests) contains the really juicy stuff. Thing is, unless you know the exact name and so on for these documents, they cannot be subpoenaed and such, and this has protected the church for many years. Anyway, this dude got fed up after a few years of essentially being a "sin enabler" and now he works for a lawyer who represents people abuse by priests. Based on what I heard this dude say, it would not surprise me ONE BIT if there is indeed such a document.

If you want to hear this dude's story for yourself, here's where a RealAudio stream can be found:

And to the former altar boys out there -- everyone thinks of their parish when they think of the church, so it is not surprising that you feel this thing is exaggerated. However, the people who actually WERE raped (do you deny that Shanley is an *animal*?) also think of their parish as representative, don't they? Maybe the truth is somewhere in between total purity and total depravity. We will know when the church hierarchy actually becomes penitent. I am not holding my breath.
2003-08-05 09:58:52 AM  
The Catholic Church = One of the most hyprocitical, pathetic-excuse-for-a-Christian organizations ever.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

A Protestant claiming that Catholicism isn't "Christianity" is like CJ saying Joey isn't a Ramone.
2003-08-05 09:59:44 AM  
So, just keep a vow of poverty and allow priest to marry again. The current rules only attract deviants.
2003-08-05 10:00:45 AM  
stoke: He was only talking about the priest. Not married people in general.
2003-08-05 10:01:57 AM  
"stoke: He was only talking about the priest. Not married people in general."

That's hard to believe considering priests aren't allowed to get married in the first place.
2003-08-05 10:02:08 AM  
Being Mormon, so called "secret documents" tend to appear every year...with amazing, secret information that will shake the LDS church to it's very core! As always, they're found to be fakes...made by fanatics who who hate us.

You think LDS needs super-secret documents to be discredited as a religion? How cute!

(I'm just messing with you. I know lots of cool Mormons.)
2003-08-05 10:02:40 AM  
I'm still searching for the love I never got from my priest.
2003-08-05 10:02:59 AM  
The Council of Elvira in Spain (about 306 A.D.) forbade all bishops, priests and deacons from having wives. This practice then began to apply to the whole of the Western Church through various Papal decrees from Pope Damasus I onwards. Damasus regarded sexual intercourse as 'defilement' (a legal impurity rather than a sin, along the lines of the Old Testament Jewish laws - see Leviticus 15:18).

The so-called 'Dark Ages', however, saw a decline in priestly morale and discipline as society itself fell into turmoil. About 1018, Pope Benedict VIII responded against this decline and brought in stronger laws to support clerical celibacy and made it impossible for the children of priests to inherit property (which had often been church property in the first place). This move was strongly supported by Pope Gregory VII (1073-1085) and his application of existing rules is regarded as the first effective enforcement of clerical celibacy.

The Second Lateran Council in 1139 seems to provide the first written law that made it impossible for a cleric to get married. Later, after the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, the Council of Trent (a meeting of the bishops of the Church, held in North Italy) reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy in 1563. Yet, despite arguments from some of the bishops present, the Council said that it was not a law that came from God but a Church tradition that could be changed. It said, too, that the Church's position on celibacy in no way minimised its high regard for marriage: the two callings were quite distinct and had their own distinctive demands.

Celibacy in the Catholic Church
2003-08-05 10:04:05 AM  
Thank you, adam_cole.

I'm quite educated on the policies of the cathaholic church, stoke. Thanks for calling me a dipshiat, though. I appreciate it.
2003-08-05 10:05:43 AM  
if you feel like getting fired up about the evils and untruths spread about by the Roman Catholic Church, might I suggest reading a book called:

The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception.

It's jolly interesting
2003-08-05 10:05:58 AM  


Galations 5:19 the bible says: Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, FORNICATION, uncleanness, lewdness. then verse 21 says ....those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

So therefore fornication, or as the webster dictionary defnies it :"consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" a sin, if or coarse you beleive that sin prevents a person from heaven, and if you dont, then you are an athiest, or agnostic.
2003-08-05 10:06:39 AM  
Who is going to summon Bevets ?
2003-08-05 10:06:39 AM  

Are you not paying attention? I was talking about priests. The fact that they're not allowed to get married is against human nature and the reason humans were created. So, since they're not allowed to fulfill their natural desires by getting married and enjoying normal sexual relations with their respective mates, they're more likely to do something stupid like molest children. It's a stupid policy.

Try reading more than one of my posts before you go off on some stupid rant. For that matter, try reading the ENTIRE post before doing that.
2003-08-05 10:06:41 AM  
Thanks monistat_7 I was having to go mostly by memory, so I was afraid some of my stuff may have been shaky. Looks like my memory is still pretty good, whew!

2003-08-05 10:09:08 AM  
and another thing, about the whole not getting married thing, the bible says be fruitful and multiply.
2003-08-05 10:10:54 AM  
Can't believe no one has done this yet:

[image from too old to be available]
2003-08-05 10:11:14 AM  
if or coarse you beleive that sin prevents a person from heaven, and if you dont, then you are an athiest, or agnostic

I didn't realize that if you didn't believe in christianity you're either athiest or agnostic.

2003-08-05 10:11:29 AM  
Whoa, didn't mean for it to be that big. Sorry Mods
2003-08-05 10:12:04 AM  
Groton, I believe the Bible just wants us to eat fruit and solve equations.
2003-08-05 10:12:37 AM  
"if you feel like getting fired up about the evils and untruths spread about by the Roman Catholic Church,...."

Thanks, but I am still pissed off about the evil true things I have learned.
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